964 or 996.2 GT3 (and why) - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

What are your thoughts on these two cars? They both seem to be similar money but rather different propositions. I would primarily use the car on the road and they would be occasional cars for fun or trips (I am British but based in Prague). I don't need to do much mileage as I don't need to commute and I will want a manual car. I love the styling of the 964 and it's my idea of what a 911 should look like as I got into cars as a kid when this was the current 911. The 996 has grown on me and a GT product with a Metzger engine is a very attractive proposition at the current price point. I'd probably prefer a 997 GT3 but it might be more than I want to spend at the moment. It's a possibility though if the right car came along. I've previously drive a 991.2 GT3 but not owned one and my previous 911 was a 991.2 GTS, which I liked but didn't love (great fun on the track but I felt it was too much for the road and I needed to be going too fast to feel that the car had come alive). Previous cars that I have enjoyed were a TVR Griffith 500 SE and E92 M3 (until the engine went on the Autobahn). I'm interested in your thoughts on these cars and if you have any tips on these to look at and watch out for when viewing these cars then it would be very much appreciated.

Both great cars (I have had both) but chalk and cheese. You really to need to try both and decide which is for you. PS a 996 GT3 comes alive on a twisty bumpy road at surprisingly low speeds. Can be quite a handful as - geo depending - they tend to follow every change in the surface. Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 1st October 21:56

The 964 is the classic 911 and would probably generate more positive attention. It would feel more agricultural and slower than a 996 GT3. The 996 GT3 is quicker, more modern and I'd say easier to live with. There are more for sale and they're likely to be in better overall condition as newer and probably haven't dropped as far as 964's did. No wrong choice if you can find the right car. It depends which you like when you drive it.

If you are going to be doing most of your driving on roads and your start point is Prague, I would go 996. You have some of the best roads and scenery in the world within a few hours, and the better state of the road surface, but less congestion that we face in parts of the UK - so you'll be able/wanting to stretch your journeys and for me the 964's age/ability/comfort? would be a constraint. But as said, try both. Watch for rust on the 964, under the sill covers just before the rear wheels/arches? Good luck.

Discombobulate said: Both great cars (I have had both) but chalk and cheese. You really to need to try both and decide which is for you. PS a 996 GT3 comes alive on a twisty bumpy road at surprisingly low speeds. Can be quite a handful as - geo depending - they tend to follow every change in the surface. Edited by Discombobulate on Friday 1st October 21:56 Thanks. The country roads here are great - mostly quite new surfaces, smooth, well-sighted and little traffic. I love the styling of the 964 but I also like the idea of having a GT car and the 996 is somehow looking far better than it used to and it's at a good price point. I'll have to see if I can try them, although I have no doubt that I'd like the 996 GT3 and the 964 is a bigger question in my mind.

Orangecurry said: If you are going to be doing most of your driving on roads and your start point is Prague, I would go 996. You have some of the best roads and scenery in the world within a few hours, and the better state of the road surface, but less congestion that we face in parts of the UK - so you'll be able/wanting to stretch your journeys and for me the 964's age/ability/comfort? would be a constraint. But as said, try both. Watch for rust on the 964, under the sill covers just before the rear wheels/arches? Good luck. The country roads here are great and Prague's very well located for some fabulous trips, which does make me lean toward a newer car. I was initially thinking about the 997 GT3 but the price of the 996 is very compelling and the styling has somehow grown on me (it was only ever the lights that I didn't like but they somehow don't look quite so bad these days). I've seen a few 996 for around £60-70K that look very good in terms of history and condition. I could also get a 964 for £40-50K here and have money to make it how I want it. Very different cars I expect. I would guess the 996 would be more useable on a regular basis. Are there particular things I should be checking with the 996, other than the usual history?

Tough choice. I have a GT3 but still love 964s, of which I had a C2 manual coupe and a Turbo. GT3 Newer so less corrosion worries and probably less miles, less owners, less everything. Better air-con and cheaper to fix if it packs in. Way faster (easy to get to 400hp) and a different league dynamically. Sounds better at full chat. Look great although some folk still use the headlights to try and talk them down. 964 Classic looks Sounds better at low revs Slow by everyday standards (250hp. 300 with a fair bit of expense) Will need way more fettling to keep tip top Old so higher miles, owners and higher chance of corrosion. GT3 wins hands down apart from on looks but a sorted 964 is a lovely car. I’m happy to own a GT3 but still want a 964 whenever I see one. I know I’d regret it though for everything other than looks.

marky911 said: Tough choice. I have a GT3 but still love 964s, of which I had a C2 manual coupe and a Turbo. GT3 Newer so less corrosion worries and probably less miles, less owners, less everything. Better air-con and cheaper to fix if it packs in. Way faster (easy to get to 400hp) and a different league dynamically. Sounds better at full chat. Look great although some folk still use the headlights to try and talk them down. 964 Classic looks Sounds better at low revs Slow by everyday standards (250hp. 300 with a fair bit of expense) Will need way more fettling to keep tip top Old so higher miles, owners and higher chance of corrosion. GT3 wins hands down apart from on looks but a sorted 964 is a lovely car. I’m happy to own a GT3 but still want a 964 whenever I see one. I know I’d regret it though for everything other than looks. There is a dealer not all that far from where I am that has two 996 GT3s - a silver and a yellow, both at what seem to be good prices. The silver one has carbon on the tunnel and around the media, etc, on the centre console - was this an option at that time? The yellow looks rather nice. One has just had full OPC service and the other will be provided with OPC service and full inspection. I am leaning toward the 996 GT3 but there's a 964 locally that I'll have a look at to see how I feel about it.

Hi, yep carbon fibre pack was a genuine option. There are aftermarket parts available too though. Any genuine options should appear on the under bonnet sticker which is also duplicated in the front of the service book. This website tells you what they all are. https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/9... One of the most important codes is C16. That means U.K. car. No it doesn’t actually alter the car but most U.K. buyers want an original U.K. car. Apart from that though, a GT3 won’t generally have loads of extras spec’d. Yellow is a very sought after colour. Yellow or guards red are probably top, but it’s all personal. Yes have a look at the 964 too. Depends if you want Classic motoring or something more dynamic but still special and analogue. Good luck.

marky911 said: Hi, yep carbon fibre pack was a genuine option. There are aftermarket parts available too though. Any genuine options should appear on the under bonnet sticker which is also duplicated in the front of the service book. This website tells you what they all are. https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/9... One of the most important codes is C16. That means U.K. car. No it doesn’t actually alter the car but most U.K. buyers want an original U.K. car. Apart from that though, a GT3 won’t generally have loads of extras spec’d. Yellow is a very sought after colour. Yellow or guards red are probably top, but it’s all personal. Yes have a look at the 964 too. Depends if you want Classic motoring or something more dynamic but still special and analogue. Good luck. Thanks. C16 isn't going to be an important code for me as it will be kept in Prague. The yellow looks good, although I think most colours I have seen on these look good. Strong colours work well though.

LHD Mk1 996 CS owner and occaisional air cooled user here... 964 are pretty... but at the same price point to a 996 GT3 - surely it's a joke? You couldn't give them away at one point... yes, they are a design classic, yes they are analogue, yes they are rare... but so is the 996 GT3 far superior dynamically, the crank case still has a 964 part number to please the beards, much easier to maintain, much better parts availability, don't rust, look great in their own way, rarity value, pure analogue experience too...

The asking price for the 964 is about £42,000

I had a look at a red 964 today in a local garage. There was also a 2.7 RS, 512M and 488, all in rather lovely condition. The 964 is apparently part of a collection. The 964 appears to be in exceptional condition. Originally from Japan, so not really any particular history. The paint had been redone on the passenger side (measured while I was there - about 120 on the roof and under 200 in other places but 480 to 520 on the passenger side - door and in front and behind the door). Arches, liners, scuttle, under the lights and in the trunk under the carpet all appeared to be unmarked. It has about 24,000 miles on the clock. It seems to be rather exceptional. I had not arranged to go in and see it - thought I'd surprise them - so the battery was flat. I didn't have long so I'll pop back and have another look. Sitting inside the car it felt very nice and the interior appearance is like new. The yellow 996 GT3 seems very good with a fresh OPC service and 111-point check done. Around £60K net with import to pay as it's just outside the EU - I've no idea how that would work into Czech but it seems like a very good buy potentially. Edited by Griffith500 on Monday 4th October 16:57 Edited by Griffith500 on Monday 4th October 16:58

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Unless you want to make a 964 into your ideal 911, then I'd still go 996 for the sheer 'jump in and go on adventures' ...and is there a Mrs 500? I'm betting she'd prefer to go with you in the 996. Though that is a lovely 'starting point' 964 - suspension looks original, as do the 16" Cup1s, so that'll be first on your list. ETA Sunroof?

Orangecurry said: Unless you want to make a 964 into your ideal 911, then I'd still go 996 for the sheer 'jump in and go on adventures' ...and is there a Mrs 500? I'm betting she'd prefer to go with you in the 996. Though that is a lovely 'starting point' 964 - suspension looks original, as do the 16" Cup1s, so that'll be first on your list. ETA Sunroof? The 964 does have a sunroof - not something I ever open. On the face of it this does seem to be a very good example, although more investigation would be required. I'll get some more detailed photos when I go down to have another look. I assume it would require more TLC over time than a 996 GT3 and the GT3 is an attractive proposition. As you say, it's more likely to be a safer bet for touring. There is a Miss 500 - more like a Miss 400 - and she's not really bothered what I get (although she does think the yellow GT3 is a 'gay' colour, and she doesn't mean happy... Czech girls...). She did seem very taken by a black G Wagon that they had... I have my concerns about her... I assume I could get my dog into the back of a GT3... she loved going in the back of my 991.2 GTS and was egging me on when we hit 280kph, although Miss 500 wasn't thrilled. I think the GT3 would be the easy option in a lot of ways - there's no doubt that it would provide what I am looking for and what I didn't feel that I got in the 991.2 GTS (Miss 500 preferred the E92 M3 to the GTS - it sounded much better apparently and I don't disagree). When I tried the 991.1 GT3 I found the sound and feel of the car to be so much more engaging, even with PDK. I suspect that the 964 would be a very different ownership and driving experience. I did love the look of the 964 though and it does seem to be a very nice example on the face of it. There's probably £30K difference in price. Maybe the GT3 would be better value long-term though. When I like a car I tend to hold onto it. I sold the 991.2 GTS when I moved overseas and I haven't missed it at all, although it was fund around Brands Hatch.

Cheburator mk2 said: LHD Mk1 996 CS owner and occaisional air cooled user here... 964 are pretty... but at the same price point to a 996 GT3 - surely it's a joke? You couldn't give them away at one point... yes, they are a design classic, yes they are analogue, yes they are rare... but so is the 996 GT3 far superior dynamically, the crank case still has a 964 part number to please the beards, much easier to maintain, much better parts availability, don't rust, look great in their own way, rarity value, pure analogue experience too... This particular 964 is going for just over £40K, whereas the 996 GT3 would be nearer £70K.

The 964 is somewhat a fad at today's prices. In its time it was viewed as just a cheap and very cynical restyle of the previous G-series. Which it actually was, as Porsche had no money for anything else. Just like the 968 was of the 944. And in turn, the 993 was yet another milking, albeit a more successful one, but nonetheless. A 996 GT3 has more inherent value than a boggo 964, that will outlive "fashion" pricing.

996TT02 said: The 964 is somewhat a fad at today's prices. In its time it was viewed as just a cheap and very cynical restyle of the previous G-series. Which it actually was, as Porsche had no money for anything else. Just like the 968 was of the 944. And in turn, the 993 was yet another milking, albeit a more successful one, but nonetheless. A 996 GT3 has more inherent value than a boggo 964, that will outlive "fashion" pricing. I agree with a lot of that BUT the 964 looks like a 911 to me (by which I mean, when I was a kid and got into cars, that's what a 911 looked like).

Griffith500 said: 996TT02 said: The 964 is somewhat a fad at today's prices. In its time it was viewed as just a cheap and very cynical restyle of the previous G-series. Which it actually was, as Porsche had no money for anything else. Just like the 968 was of the 944. And in turn, the 993 was yet another milking, albeit a more successful one, but nonetheless. A 996 GT3 has more inherent value than a boggo 964, that will outlive "fashion" pricing. I agree with a lot of that BUT the 964 looks like a 911 to me (by which I mean, when I was a kid and got into cars, that's what a 911 looked like). Agree. the 964 looks like a 911. A 996 looks like a Saab, very un-Porsche like,

julian987R said: Agree. the 964 looks like a 911. A 996 looks like a Saab, very un-Porsche like, I used to hate the 996, solely based on the lights, but I think it looks ok now and it's aging well. I find myself liking the look of the 996.2 GT3 these days.

Griffith500 said: julian987R said: Agree. the 964 looks like a 911. A 996 looks like a Saab, very un-Porsche like, I used to hate the 996, solely based on the lights, but I think it looks ok now and it's aging well. I find myself liking the look of the 996.2 GT3 these days. The lights don't bother me too much. Its just the whole package is very Saab like.

Interesting looking through some of the codes from the previous link that a poster provided. One of the GT3s has a lot of carbon (center console, center air vent, dashboard trim, instrument surround, gear lever, handbrake lever, door sills), the full safety cage (not particularly convenient by the look of it?), leather ignition surround, clubsport and the seats look like alcantara rather than the usual leather. I hadn't seen that on the ones I've seen so far. I think they are Nomex Carrera GT seats? The other car doesn't have anywhere near that level of specification, although it has cruise control and the brushed steel 'roll-over bar'. The specs are taken from the sticker codes and the pictures support it. They would end up around the same price - the one without all the carbon might actually work out a bit more expensive - around 5,000 miles less. Edited by Griffith500 on Monday 4th October 23:10

julian987R said: The lights don't bother me too much. Its just the whole package is very Saab like. I don't see it but each to their own.

julian987R said: Agree. the 964 looks like a 911. A 996 looks like a Saab, very un-Porsche like, Dear oh dear. I’ve read your expert musings on the Collecting cars thread though, so I wouldn’t expect anything different on here. Griff that 964 sounds like a nice one. I’m always wary of Jap stuff as we simply don’t know if the mileage and history are true but if you’re happy that’s fine. As stated though the suspension looks standard as they used to sit stupidly “nose-high” from the factory. Again as said those wheels kill it. Worst 964 wheels you could get. So there’s £5k/£6k straight away for a suspension refresh and decent wheels and tyres. It sounds like you’re favouring the 964. That’s great they are lovely but you must try and drive both the 964 and a GT3. 964 will feel pretty pedestrian after your 991 and especially when compared to a GT3 of any age. As I said though it depends on what sort of experience you’re after. Classic car for cruising out for a pub lunch on a nice day, or a scalpel that will set your pants alight whenever you go for a blast. Oh I forgot to say, if one of the GT3s is a Clubsport as you seem to be suggesting, (code M003) then that’s the one to go for. Full black cage (although front section is removable), Nomex buckets, fire extinguisher in passenger footwell. Rarer and very much what the GT3 is meant to be. As ever though condition wins. I’d rather have a good Comfort than a rough CS. Edited by marky911 on Monday 4th October 23:59

marky911 said: Griff that 964 sounds like a nice one. I’m always wary of Jap stuff as we simply don’t know if the mileage and history are true but if you’re happy that’s fine. As stated though the suspension looks standard as they used to sit stupidly “nose-high” from the factory. Again as said those wheels kill it. Worst 964 wheels you could get. So there’s £5k/£6k straight away for a suspension refresh and decent wheels and tyres. It sounds like you’re favouring the 964. That’s great they are lovely but you must try and drive both the 964 and a GT3. 964 will feel pretty pedestrian after your 991 and especially when compared to a GT3 of any age. As I said though it depends on what sort of experience you’re after. Classic car for cruising out for a pub lunch on a nice day, or a scalpel that will set your pants alight whenever you go for a blast. Oh I forgot to say, if one of the GT3s is a Clubsport as you seem to be suggesting, (code M003) then that’s the one to go for. Full black cage (although front section is removable), Nomex buckets, fire extinguisher in passenger footwell. Rarer and very much what the GT3 is meant to be. As ever though condition wins. I’d rather have a good Comfort than a rough CS. Edited by marky911 on Monday 4th October 23:59 Nomex buckets and a full cage in the one with all the carbon. Both are similar mileage and both seem to be good cars. It's an interesting 'dilemma'... two quite different cars. The 964 really looks lovely, but if I got the GT3 I doubt I would wonder whether I should have got the 964 instead. I suspect that if I get the 964 I might still want a GT3, but I can't do both. A drive will help - I'll either love it or not I guess. I don't have any doubt at all that I'd enjoy the GT3. Regarding the Jap cars, the little research I have done thus far seems to indicate that cars from there often seem to have little to no service history with them? I'd guess cars of this age are easy to wind back the mileage on anyway. Having said that, the condition of the interior, under the carpet up front, etc, does look like a very well cared for 25k car. I'll get some more pictures next time I have a look at it but it exceeded my expectations.

The challenge with 964 is to figure where it is in its maintenance cycle. Most I have seen (and owned) will require (or certainly benefit) from an engine rebuild and gearbox refresh. If this is the case its a minimum GBP15k to GBP 20k. Add a suspension refresh and other bits and that's another GBP 10k. The bills mount very quickly due to high parts prices and general complexity of access to certain parts of the car). This applies particularly to the Japanese cars that always seem to have all maintenance deferred but are generally rust free. So in real terms a 964 is much more expensive than a GT3 (assuming that too doesn't need major works).

julian987R said: Agree. the 964 looks like a 911. A 996 looks like a Saab, very un-Porsche like, The 996 set the template for how 911s have looked for the past 24 years. Every 911 since has been a steady evolution.

Paracetamol said: The challenge with 964 is to figure where it is in its maintenance cycle. Most I have seen (and owned) will require (or certainly benefit) from an engine rebuild and gearbox refresh. If this is the case its a minimum GBP15k to GBP 20k. Add a suspension refresh and other bits and that's another GBP 10k. The bills mount very quickly due to high parts prices and general complexity of access to certain parts of the car). This applies particularly to the Japanese cars that always seem to have all maintenance deferred but are generally rust free. So in real terms a 964 is much more expensive than a GT3 (assuming that too doesn't need major works). Bodywork and interior are exceptional - I had a look under the arches and it was like a new car. I was quite surprised at just how fresh it seems. The potential for work being required due to lack of servicing is a concern of course. Should the weight or bite point of the clutch give any indication? Anything in the gear change that can indicate something? Things to look out for when taking it for a test drive?

Anyway, nice for the OP to have the choice where the 964 option is significantly cheaper than a GT3. In the UK they seem to be about the same money which for me kills the appeal of a 964.

Griffith500 said: The 964 does have a sunroof - not something I ever open. On the face of it this does seem to be a very good example, although more investigation would be required. I'll get some more detailed photos when I go down to have another look. I assume it would require more TLC over time than a 996 GT3 and the GT3 is an attractive proposition. As you say, it's more likely to be a safer bet for touring. I meant if the 964 has no sunroof they are 'worth' more to the market - so it's JDM RHD? No rust issues. I would buy it for 40 GBP, refresh the suspension with something track-orientated, get some OE 17" wheels on it, meaning you are in for say 50K. I would not touch the mechanicals, and drive it around for a bit. If it ticks your boxes, go mad on everything else. If it doesn't, I would imagine you'll be able to sell on to the UK market for minimum 50k or I'll eat my hat. If you ask Steve Rance on here what suspension to fit, you'll have a ready buyer if you don't like it... was it he that was looking for one? Griffith500 said: There is a Miss 500 - more like a Miss 400 - and she's not really bothered what I get (although she does think the yellow GT3 is a 'gay' colour, and she doesn't mean happy... Czech girls...). She did seem very taken by a black G Wagon that they had... I have my concerns about her... She sounds spot-on to me. Oh and my hat is made from biscuits.

braddo said: Anyway, nice for the OP to have the choice where the 964 option is significantly cheaper than a GT3. In the UK they seem to be about the same money which for me kills the appeal of a 964. That's part of what makes this 964 an attractive option. £40K in such good cosmetic condition seems rather good.

Griffith500 said: A drive will help - I'll either love it or not I guess. I don't have any doubt at all that I'd enjoy the GT3. Be very clear that on original suspension, and possibly ten year old tyres, a test-drive in the 964 might feel extremely bad, and I mean awful. The 16" wheels will actually mask the awfulness.

Orangecurry said: I meant if the 964 has no sunroof they are 'worth' more to the market - so it's JDM RHD? No rust issues. I would buy it for 40 GBP, refresh the suspension with something track-orientated, get some OE 17" wheels on it, meaning you are in for say 50K. I would not touch the mechanicals, and drive it around for a bit. If it ticks your boxes, go mad on everything else. If it doesn't, I would imagine you'll be able to sell on to the UK market for minimum 50k or I'll eat my hat. If you ask Steve Rance on here what suspension to fit, you'll have a ready buyer if you don't like it... was it he that was looking for one? It's actually LHD, which is what I want. My understanding is that quite a lot of Japan cars were ordered as LHD? I'd prefer no sunroof but it's not particularly important to me. I could not find any rust anywhere - I looked under each wheel arch (they were ridiculously fresh, including the liners), scuttle, around the sunroof, under the carpets in the front... I am told it was from a collection but I take these things with a pinch of salt, although the condition makes it believable. Suspension and wheels, if I love it then maybe steering wheel, maybe seats. It could be quite a special thing. Not a GT3 though.

Orangecurry said: Be very clear that on original suspension, and possibly ten year old tyres, a test-drive in the 964 might feel extremely bad, and I mean awful. The 16" wheels will actually mask the awfulness. Thanks. I should expect the suspension to need replacing due to age despite only around 24k miles?

Shock absorbers don't age that well. Rubber bushes. Top-mounts. Everything - even the springs may have sagged/given-up after sitting supporting a car for 30 years. Just wind the windows down and listen to the engine note. On a straight road. Don't try any corners

I have a 964 and a Mk1 GT3. Both cars are modified. The 964 by me and to my own preferences- which resulted in quite a hardcore car. The 996 was modified prior to my purchasing it but to a spec that I am very happy with. I have to say that the 996GT3 in all guises are probably my favourite 911’s. Testament then to the fact that I generally grab the keys to my 964 If I fancy a road hoon. It really is that special and something that I really didn’t expect. The caviet here is that a 964 in standard speciation is nowhere near as fun or rewarding to drive. The cost of the build were certainly not cheap but did result in a car that is far greater than the sum of its parts. My 964 was sourced in Japan. Maybe I’m lucky but it’s condition was incredible. It’s a far less corrosive environment than Western Europe. Unmodified id say GT3 every day, it’s a fantastic and truly engaging. But if you are looking for a truly special car to experience on the road at all speeds - not something to double as a track car - personally I’ll take a modified 964. Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 5th October 14:33

Steve Rance said: I have a 964 and a Mk1 GT3. Both cars are modified. The 964 by me and to my own preferences- which resulted in quite a hardcore car. The 996 was modified prior to my purchasing it but to a spec that I am very happy with. I have to say that the 996GT3 in all guises are probably my favourite 911’s. Testament then to the fact that I generally grab the keys to my 964 If I fancy a road hoon. It really is that special and something that I really didn’t expect. The caviet here is that a 964 in standard speciation is nowhere near as fun or rewarding to drive. The cost of the build were certainly not cheap but did result in a car that is far greater than the sum of its parts. My 964 was sourced in Japan. Maybe I’m lucky but it’s condition was incredible. It’s a far less corrosive environment than Western Europe. Unmodified id say GT3 every day, it’s a fantastic and truly engaging. But if you are looking for a truly special car to experience on the road at all speeds - not something to double as a track car - personally I’ll take a modified 964. Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 5th October 14:33 Thanks Steve, that's an interesting view and I appreciate the input. Would you still grab the 964 keys if you were off for a jaunt around Europe or would reliability be a concern? What would be the first things that you'd do to a standard 964? I mean specifics so I could get an idea of what I'd want to budget for. Lightweight Fuchs-style wheels or something else? Ohlins of a particular type or is there a specific recommendation? Do you have a build thread where I can see your car and what you did to it? I have to say that the condition of the car seems to be exceptional inside and out. My 991.2 GTS seats looked older than the ones in the 964 after less than half the mileage (although perhaps the likely difference in size between myself and a Japanese gentleman might have something to do with that).

Hi. Yep I think that I’d take it on a European tour over a GT3. It’s so small and delicate to drive. Very engaging all all speeds and probably it has a charisma that no water cooled car can match. It really depends on what level of engagement and practically that you are looking for. My car was specified with sunroof delete but I kept the electric windows , aircon and carpets with long road trips in mind. Engine is standard except for a Wayne scholfield remap and LSD was also included in the factory spec. I concentrated on chassis and brake modifications mainly (which were pretty extensive) along with Sparcos, rear seat delete and a cage. All bits were pretty much bolt on replacements. There’s a detailed build thread somewhere on here. In terms of outright cost, it was about the same as a good 996GT3 CS so it wasn’t cheap but the result was a far better car than I was expecting. Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 5th October 15:56

Here’s the thread https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

When I first saw the 964 I was told they would get the battery charged and I could hear it running. I sent an email on the same day I saw it saying I was interested and to let me know when it is ready. 3 days later I had heard nothing from them so I went there and it was on charge but the guy was away. I called and was promised a reply. Nothing. Another email and still ignored after 8 days, so I email the owner and he tells me they've sold the car. Great. I have a feeling that the guy at the garage thought I had been offered it too cheap and they've just been playing games. Or someone figured out where the car I was looking at was located and jumped in. What a monumental waste of time. I've looked around the EU and cannot really find anything now for less than 70,000 EUR (the one I was looking at was 49,000 EUR). Many at 75,000 EUR and above have over 200,000km. I guess I won't be buying a 964. I have seen a very nice 964 with a lot of work that's been done but it's about the same price as I can get the 996 GT3 for (offered the GT3 Clubsport with carbon options at 78,000 EUR). Annoying.

Bugger.

Orangecurry said: Bugger. I said something somewhat similar...

Griffith500 said: I've looked around the EU and cannot really find anything now for less than 70,000 EUR (the one I was looking at was 49,000 EUR). Many at 75,000 EUR and above have over 200,000km. I guess it shows that that car was unusually cheap, and either someone has been exceptionally lucky to have bought it, or the owner wised up and no-one got it for a bargain!

braddo said: I guess it shows that that car was unusually cheap, and either someone has been exceptionally lucky to have bought it, or the owner wised up and no-one got it for a bargain! I think it's probably the latter. It's still being advertised (no price on the advertisement, which was always the case).

I went with my heart and have what appears to be a lovely 964 on it's way. It was so great to drive that I had to have it and it gave that connection and feeling that I had found lacking in my previous 991.2 GTS. I'm already planning some upgrades...

Griffith500 said: I went with my heart and have what appears to be a lovely 964 on it's way. It was so great to drive that I had to have it and it gave that connection and feeling that I had found lacking in my previous 991.2 GTS. I'm already planning some upgrades... What's the spec?

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://thumbsnap.com/sc/EijRdW53.gif

g7jhp said: What's the spec? It's a German-registered car and it's just had a full classic certification. Black extended leather interior with 12-way seats, black exterior that's been wrapped "signalgrün". Lots of RS parts on it, including (apparently) the control unit, engine mounts, single-mass flywheel and clutch upgrades, front vents, mirrors, door window frames refurbished like new, sunroof fittings replaced, discs and brakes upgraded (apparently 964 Turbo Front and 964 RS rear), heat exchangers replaced, lots of parts stripped, galvanised and treated, new door and trunk seals and other parts in the engine bay, replaced air-conditioning unit (it works well), Bilstein/H&R suspension set up by a well-known place in Germany and more. It drives extremely well, the engine is incredibly smooth and the entire car feels very tight. It has original Cup 1 wheels and a spare set of Cup 2 with winter tyres. Apparently they are a rare size and it's wearing 225 tyres on the front, which I am told helps with understeer. It certainly handled nicely. Something has been done to limit how far the wheels turn to avoid rubbing due to the larger wheels.

Thats stunning... Good find !

Griffith500 said: Looks stunning and sounds like a great find!

Thanks guys. I think it's a good car that's been looked after well. I got a good vibe off the owner, who seems like a lovely chap, and he's had it 9 years (I'll be the 4th owner).

MrVert said: I haven't seen this one for a long time. The 964 lsounds like a real good'un!

Griffith500 said: Stunning car Welcome to the Green Porsche Club! (from a former member)

MrVert said: Stunning car Welcome to the Green Porsche Club! (from a former member) Gorgeous car, and parked in front of Lime Green by a huge coincidence...

Griffith500 said: Gorgeous car, and parked in front of Lime Green by a huge coincidence... The funny thing about that was it was a complete coincidence! Didn't even notice until we looked at the picture later that evening More pics required of your new wheels!

Griffith500 said: It's a German-registered car and it's just had a full classic certification. Black extended leather interior with 12-way seats, black exterior that's been wrapped "signalgrün". Lots of RS parts on it, including (apparently) the control unit, engine mounts, single-mass flywheel and clutch upgrades, front vents, mirrors, door window frames refurbished like new, sunroof fittings replaced, discs and brakes upgraded (apparently 964 Turbo Front and 964 RS rear), heat exchangers replaced, lots of parts stripped, galvanised and treated, new door and trunk seals and other parts in the engine bay, replaced air-conditioning unit (it works well), Bilstein/H&R suspension set up by a well-known place in Germany and more. It drives extremely well, the engine is incredibly smooth and the entire car feels very tight. Fabulous. And you can even go back-to-black if you fancy a change. Griffith500 said: It has original Cup 1 wheels and a spare set of Cup 2 with winter tyres. Apparently they are a rare size and it's wearing 225 tyres on the front, which I am told helps with understeer. It certainly handled nicely. Something has been done to limit how far the wheels turn to avoid rubbing due to the larger wheels. I assume he's sourced some Cup1 8J ET52 and put them on the front. I've done something similar with my 993. A 225/45 255/40 combination IMO works really well in the real world. Enjoy.

Orangecurry said: I assume he's sourced some Cup1 8J ET52 and put them on the front. I've done something similar with my 993. A 225/45 255//40 combination IMO works really well in the real world. Enjoy. Thanks. I like these in black so it's nice to have that option. I think you are correct with regard to the Cup 1 size on the front. He told me it's a fairly unusual size. I had read in a number of places that wider tyres on the front can improve things on the C4 and especially when it has been lowered a bit. This has not been lowered quite down to RS settings but there is potential to go lower if I feel the need. I'm not sure I'll bother as the setup felt very well judged when I drove it, not that I really gave it any beans of course. The suspension was set up by Wagner Motorsport, who seem to be quite well known. Apparently the setup translated into 'light attack', which sounds fine for road use - camber somewhere between standard and RS. When I started looking for a cheaper original car I had anticipated using KW V3 but the setup with the Bilstein / H&R on this car seems really rather good. I'll know more next year when I get to push it a bit. I think he put a lot of thought into the changes he made to the car over his 9 years of ownership. Edited by Griffith500 on Thursday 4th November 13:25

Sounds ideal - a previous owner whose direction with the car is the same as your own. Ahh a C4 - yes the 964 is the only 911 with a proper 4wd system, i.e. mechanical throughout, if I remember my research correctly. Meaning a bit more understeer from the factory. Should be perfect in the winter. Keep your foot buried in the Axminster at all times, corners in particular. Disclaimer - Any comments made by any member of staff at Orangecurry.com should be treated as 'unhinged', and will vary in a range from 'mild mirth' to 'dangerous stupidity', and not taken as advice, financial or otherwise.

Orangecurry said: Sounds ideal - a previous owner whose direction with the car is the same as your own. Ahh a C4 - yes the 964 is the only 911 with a proper 4wd system, i.e. mechanical throughout, if I remember my research correctly. Meaning a bit more understeer from the factory. Should be perfect in the winter. Keep your foot buried in the Axminster at all times, corners in particular. Disclaimer - Any comments made by any member of staff at Orangecurry.com should be treated as 'unhinged', and will vary in a range from 'mild mirth' to 'dangerous stupidity', and not taken as advice, financial or otherwise. Ok, I'll do that then. That domain name is available...