PDK Driving ... - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi... Anticipating buying a 981 Boxster....will probably be with the PDK gearbox. As i have never driven one how does the gearbox work? i understand and have driven automatics Park Drive Neutral etc but how does it work when put into Manual?.does the car stay in the gear selected or will it override if not in the appropriate gear? As a side note what is the feeling about a 9 year old car with only 18000 miles on the clock? what if anything would be a worry about that?,

Manual stays on the gear you select unless you: - Slow down enough that revs will reach tickover (gearbox will automatically downshift). Technically speaking the PDK won't let you stall the engine. - Depress the accelerator past kickdown (gearbox will downshift to the optimal gear & auto shift up). I find kickdown is not noticeable enough in the 9x7, not sure about the 9x1, in that it's hard to find full throttle just before kickdown. The gearbox will also ignore downshift requests if it would cause the engine to go over the limiter.

Thanks i assumed there must be some kind of override to do just that..prevent a stall... I guess it’s just getting used to changing gear without using a clutch....

It will also change up if you reach the rev limit while accelerating. Personally I wouldn't (and didn't) use kickdown - far better and faster to change down manually prior to (for example) an overtake.

The benefit of kickdown is you can kick down more than one gear at a time. With paddles on sequential you have to change each one. Not that either is a particular hardship, but I've found when track driving a dab of throttle to kick down gears prior to cornering actually works pretty well.

bcr5784 said: It will also change up if you reach the rev limit while accelerating. Personally I wouldn't (and didn't) use kickdown - far better and faster to change down manually prior to (for example) an overtake. I'm pretty sure it doesn't change up when you are in manual mode, it just bounces off the limiter. Will double check though There are a couple of other things with the older PDK I like, if you are careful when you approach a roundabout or junction where you can blend into the traffic it stays in second for long enough to make it nice and smooth. The later PDK in the GT3 would drop into first earlier (which didn't matter cause you could then rev it more!) Also found that in manual (981) the shift up times change (quicken) if you are pressing on, but if you're just at a small throttle input it's relatively slow to change. Still quicker than other brands though. Lastly the 981 is even a bit 'uncouth' in manual and sports plus, you can feel the kick as you change up, the GT3 was seamless (and quicker) at all times but the earlier PDK is a bit more fun perhaps. I drive my 981 in manual and sports all the time, once the oil has warmed. Maybe in a long traffic queue I'll drop into auto, but that's about it. OP: I think you'll love a Porsche PDK if you haven't tried one, I did. The DSG in Audi's just left me cold. Other opinions are available! Edited by robj4 on Wednesday 31st March 11:57 Edited by robj4 on Wednesday 31st March 12:00

robj4 said: I'm pretty sure it doesn't change up when you are in manual mode, it just bounces off the limiter. Will double check though You are probably right there - I was thinking about when you do a manual override in auto.

I assume it's the same as the 718 in which case there is no kickdown in manual mode and it will not auto shift up if you hit the limiter

Mine will stay on the limiter in manual unless I kick down. It doesn't actually bounce off the limiter like a manual car does, it's much smoother than that, perhaps to protect the transmission? Though the owners manual suggests this behaviour changes in Sport/Sport+ I haven't tried all of these combinations. In the earlier 9x7 the jolt when shifting only comes in Sport+ and even then, only if you're not cornering hard. This was even mentioned in some review Chris Harris did many years ago and Porsche's claim was to avoid upsetting the car if you shifted mid corner. Personally it doesn't bother me but I prefer the smoother shifts.

Hey guys many thanks for the pointers.... I haven’t read any reviews that say the PDK is any worse failwise than the manual so i suspect that will be what i go for... Just on my second point is 18000 miles in say 9 years going to be an issue..,?

As a side point, if you’re planning on using manual mode quite a bit, would strongly recommend making sure your potential purchase has the Sports Design steering wheel - this includes the paddles for changing gear in manual mode. Cars without have buttons on the steering wheel which are completely useless imo.

My car's a manual but I've driven some PDKs. I think the PDK always uses every gear whereas a manual driver will often be skipping the intermediates. This is what makes PDKs quick, the computer shifts gears so much faster than a human being and exactly the right rpm. Some will talk about the "weight penalty" of PDK but the shift speeds easily turn that into a net gain. PDK quicker driven in manual mode? I very much doubt it. Like all autos the manual down-change can be handy in preparation for an overtake but that's about it IMO.

ClaphamBoxS said: Just on my second point is 18000 miles in say 9 years going to be an issue..,? I wouldn't worry about it so long as it was still serviced, plenty of cars that age have barely been driven.

SWGT3 said: As a side point, if you’re planning on using manual mode quite a bit, would strongly recommend making sure your potential purchase has the Sports Design steering wheel - this includes the paddles for changing gear in manual mode. Cars without have buttons on the steering wheel which are completely useless imo. Absolutely a good point, there’s a reason why the 718 moved to paddles only. The 981 steering wheel buttons were horrendous. If you can up the budget slightly you may find you can edge into 718 territory. If you can it’s truly worth the extra, the 981 is a dinosaur in comparison and the push/pull gear changes are also the right way around (e.g. pull back to change up).

I agree with Schmed, the manual gear change feels weird to me, but this is probably because I am used to left paddle changing down a gear and right paddle changing up. If you haven’t driven a paddle car before then maybe you wouldn’t notice as you aren’t used to etc. One thing I would say is that the pdk is very good in my opinion, in sports mode it holds onto the gears and I have really enjoyed driving.

It’s a brilliant bit of engineering. The shifts are smooth in normal use. Sometimes a perceptible gentle “clunk” when it goes into 1st from 2nd, but you have to really be tuned in to feel it. Razor sharp. Usually use it in auto mode until warmed up or if I am in slow traffic. Move to manual quickly and use the paddles (981 Boxster S). Brutally fast when at the top end and in Sports Plus mode (only Sports Chrono?), but I wouldn’t have a problem with Sports being the highest mode in the slightest. That’s what I default to the most. Personally, I really don’t like paddles that move with the wheel. I’ve been caught out a few times in tights turns, having to look at the wheel to figure which one to pull. Much prefer my previous car which had nice (and slightly larger) stationary paddles. But that’s not the problem of the ‘box! It suits the car and the free reviving engine. I’ve read enough about manual ratios being too tall, but not having experienced one, I can’t truly comment. Suffice to say, absolutely no quibbles about the gearing with a PDK. Perhaps a touch anodyne? In my opinion, yes. But that, to me, is the result of its highly polished and uber-competent nature. Somehow makes me appreciate the more mechanical and connected feel of an older single clutch robotised manual even though it’s worse in most measurable ways (apart from weight + complexity). Weird. Enjoy!

Schmed said: SWGT3 said: As a side point, if you’re planning on using manual mode quite a bit, would strongly recommend making sure your potential purchase has the Sports Design steering wheel - this includes the paddles for changing gear in manual mode. Cars without have buttons on the steering wheel which are completely useless imo. Absolutely a good point, there’s a reason why the 718 moved to paddles only. The 981 steering wheel buttons were horrendous. If you can up the budget slightly you may find you can edge into 718 territory. If you can it’s truly worth the extra, the 981 is a dinosaur in comparison and the push/pull gear changes are also the right way around (e.g. pull back to change up). Kin’ell are you still at it? Give it a rest. The 718 is a Golf in drag. The 981 is a true Porsche with a proper engine.

Chris722 said: I agree with Schmed, the manual gear change feels weird to me, but this is probably because I am used to left paddle changing down a gear and right paddle changing up. If you haven’t driven a paddle car before then maybe you wouldn’t notice as you aren’t used to etc. One thing I would say is that the pdk is very good in my opinion, in sports mode it holds onto the gears and I have really enjoyed driving. ??? The paddles in the 981 and 718 work in exactly the same way, left down, right up. What he was talking about was using the gear leaver in manual... it is against what is conventional and natural. 981 pull back to change down, push forward to change up. 718 back, change up, forward to change down. I never use the stick for changes so it’s a none issue for me (981). I doubt I’d use it if is was the correct way around. OP... The rest is Schmed’s usual rant, if he had his way no one would buy a 981. Buy what makes you grin like an idiot and enjoy

HighwayStar said: Chris722 said: I agree with Schmed, the manual gear change feels weird to me, but this is probably because I am used to left paddle changing down a gear and right paddle changing up. If you haven’t driven a paddle car before then maybe you wouldn’t notice as you aren’t used to etc. One thing I would say is that the pdk is very good in my opinion, in sports mode it holds onto the gears and I have really enjoyed driving. ??? The paddles in the 981 and 718 work in exactly the same way, left down, right up. What he was talking about was using the gear leaver in manual... it is against what is conventional and natural. 981 pull back to change down, push forward to change up. 718 back, change up, forward to change down. I never use the stick for changes so it’s a none issue for me (981). I doubt I’d use it if is was the correct way around. OP... The rest is Schmed’s usual rant, if he had his way no one would buy a 981. Buy what makes you grin like an idiot and enjoy Well at the moment my 2001 Boxster S makes me do that so a 981 should make me hysterical.... My query was really based on never having had an auto box for my car as opposed to a hire holiday one.... Sounds like it’s def the way to go ...and the ability to use it like a manual is a bonus ... Thanks again for the pointers...am now on the lookout for one to call mine....

icekay said: ClaphamBoxS said: Just on my second point is 18000 miles in say 9 years going to be an issue..,? I wouldn't worry about it so long as it was still serviced, plenty of cars that age have barely been driven. Exactly, buy on condition. Check the service history, how it has been stored & how much driven recently (if available). Cars sitting undriven for months on end can introduce other issues like corroded brake discs etc.

Schmed said: If you can up the budget slightly you may find you can edge into 718 territory. If you can it’s truly worth the extra, the 981 is a dinosaur in comparison and the push/pull gear changes are also the right way around (e.g. pull back to change up). Why would you buy a 4 pot when you can buy a 6 pot ?

rockin said: My car's a manual but I've driven some PDKs. PDK quicker driven in manual mode? I very much doubt it. Like all autos the manual down-change can be handy in preparation for an overtake but that's about it IMO. I find its quire handy to hold on to the same gear in sweepies in manual mode, rather than the gearbox upshifting

ash056 said: Schmed said: If you can up the budget slightly you may find you can edge into 718 territory. If you can it’s truly worth the extra, the 981 is a dinosaur in comparison and the push/pull gear changes are also the right way around (e.g. pull back to change up). Why would you buy a 4 pot when you can buy a 6 pot ? Oh dear, with 3 posts you may not have experienced Schmed’s love of the 718 over the 981 and the stats which _must_ mean it’s a better car and those who don’t share that belief are wrong and can’t afford a 718. Preferring the NA 6 is wrong, insane. The gospel according to Schmed. Check the options on your list and as I said before buy what puts the biggest grin on your face. There’s no wrong, just preference.

I’ve spent a bit of time driving a Panamera with a PDK box. To me it is largely indistinguishable from a large engined car with a modern conventional auto box. Each time I tried a prolonged period in manual I ended up wondering why I was bothering. Plus 1 is ludicrously short and good for getting you rolling and that’s about it; 2 is a bit too short for fast tight cornering and 3 is a bit too long. And as pointed out above the button shifters on the non-sports wheel are so bad to use you end up thinking that Porsche only put them there to force buyers to buy the paddle shift wheel.

PDK just like DSG are good but they are a lot better once tuned. my 981 Cayman S ran Stage 2 COBB tune and COBB "sequential" PDK map which changed it to down gear fordwards, up gear backwards amongst other things.

BlackWidow13 said: I’ve spent a bit of time driving a Panamera with a PDK box. To me it is largely indistinguishable from a large engined car with a modern conventional auto box. Each time I tried a prolonged period in manual I ended up wondering why I was bothering. Plus 1 is ludicrously short and good for getting you rolling and that’s about it; 2 is a bit too short for fast tight cornering and 3 is a bit too long. And as pointed out above the button shifters on the non-sports wheel are so bad to use you end up thinking that Porsche only put them there to force buyers to buy the paddle shift wheel. To be fair PDK Pan v PDK Cayster isn’t really an apples to apples comparison. The Panamera is a totally different proposition. I had a a Pan loaner when my Cayman was in for some warranty work. Not a comparison I would make.

HighwayStar said: To be fair PDK Pan v PDK Cayster isn’t really an apples to apples comparison. The Panamera is a totally different proposition. I had a a Pan loaner when my Cayman was in for some warranty work. Not a comparison I would make. That’s a relief to hear, because the PDK in the Panamera would otherwise turn me off any 911/Cayster (I like that!) PDK.

I like the 981 push forward gear shift to... move forward faster. Much more intuitive than pulling back. Matches my cruise control stalk. Push forward to move forward faster. But then I've never driven an F1 car so what do I know...

DJMC said: I like the 981 push forward gear shift to... move forward faster. Much more intuitive than pulling back. Matches my cruise control stalk. Push forward to move forward faster. But then I've never driven an F1 car so what do I know... The two things I’ve never used in mine, stick shift or the cruise. It’s not a daily/commuter so rarely sat in traffic.

HighwayStar said: Chris722 said: I agree with Schmed, the manual gear change feels weird to me, but this is probably because I am used to left paddle changing down a gear and right paddle changing up. If you haven’t driven a paddle car before then maybe you wouldn’t notice as you aren’t used to etc. One thing I would say is that the pdk is very good in my opinion, in sports mode it holds onto the gears and I have really enjoyed driving. ??? The paddles in the 981 and 718 work in exactly the same way, left down, right up. What he was talking about was using the gear leaver in manual... it is against what is conventional and natural. 981 pull back to change down, push forward to change up. 718 back, change up, forward to change down. I never use the stick for changes so it’s a none issue for me (981). I doubt I’d use it if is was the correct way around. OP... The rest is Schmed’s usual rant, if he had his way no one would buy a 981. Buy what makes you grin like an idiot and enjoy Sorry I wasn’t getting into the debate about 718/981. Re reading my reply it looks that way sorry! What I was trying to say was that in my other cars that have paddles left paddle is to change down, right is to change up if I pull them towards me. In the boxter they have up and down in each side but pulling towards me on either side means it changes it up gear not down which I struggle to use due to my brain being used to pulling on left to change down.

Chris722 said: HighwayStar said: Chris722 said: I agree with Schmed, the manual gear change feels weird to me, but this is probably because I am used to left paddle changing down a gear and right paddle changing up. If you haven’t driven a paddle car before then maybe you wouldn’t notice as you aren’t used to etc. One thing I would say is that the pdk is very good in my opinion, in sports mode it holds onto the gears and I have really enjoyed driving. ??? The paddles in the 981 and 718 work in exactly the same way, left down, right up. What he was talking about was using the gear leaver in manual... it is against what is conventional and natural. 981 pull back to change down, push forward to change up. 718 back, change up, forward to change down. I never use the stick for changes so it’s a none issue for me (981). I doubt I’d use it if is was the correct way around. OP... The rest is Schmed’s usual rant, if he had his way no one would buy a 981. Buy what makes you grin like an idiot and enjoy Sorry I wasn’t getting into the debate about 718/981. Re reading my reply it looks that way sorry! What I was trying to say was that in my other cars that have paddles left paddle is to change down, right is to change up if I pull them towards me. In the boxter they have up and down in each side but pulling towards me on either side means it changes it up gear not down which I struggle to use due to my brain being used to pulling on left to change down. This is in your 981 Box S? Pulling back on either paddle changes up and pushing either changes down? That’s now how it works in any paddle equipped Cayster I’ve driven. Pull left to change down, pull right to change up. Pull both gives you neutral. Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 8th April 18:11

HighwayStar said: This is in your 981 Box S? Pulling back on either paddle changes up and pushing either changes down? That’s now how it works in any paddle equipped Cayster I’ve driven. Pull left to change down, pull right to change up. Pull both gives you neutral. Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 8th April 18:11 I think this relates back to my point about the Sports Design steering wheel. I think what Chris is describing is how the buttons work on the standard pdk steering wheel on the 981 model. If the SD wheel was specified you get paddles that work as you describe (left down, right up) if it wasn’t, you get the senseless buttons that do what Chris describes. It’s a really important spec oversight and I think a lot of people don’t realise if they aren’t particularly familiar with the 981. For reference, standard steering wheel (with buttons): Sports Design (with paddles):

SWGT3 said: HighwayStar said: This is in your 981 Box S? Pulling back on either paddle changes up and pushing either changes down? That’s now how it works in any paddle equipped Cayster I’ve driven. Pull left to change down, pull right to change up. Pull both gives you neutral. Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 8th April 18:11 I think this relates back to my point about the Sports Design steering wheel. I think what Chris is describing is how the buttons work on the standard pdk steering wheel on the 981 model. If the SD wheel was specified you get paddles that work as you describe (left down, right up) if it wasn’t, you get the senseless buttons that do what Chris describes. It’s a really important spec oversight and I think a lot of people don’t realise if they aren’t particularly familiar with the 981. For reference, standard steering wheel (with buttons): Sports Design (with paddles): Ahhh, gotcha... Chris’s description of the buttons as paddles threw me. Jeez, the standard PDK wheel is worse than I thought. The standard steering wheel was a deal breaker when I was looking for my 981 CS although I know it can be swapped out for the Sport Design wheel.

SWGT3 said: HighwayStar said: This is in your 981 Box S? Pulling back on either paddle changes up and pushing either changes down? That’s now how it works in any paddle equipped Cayster I’ve driven. Pull left to change down, pull right to change up. Pull both gives you neutral. Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 8th April 18:11 I think this relates back to my point about the Sports Design steering wheel. I think what Chris is describing is how the buttons work on the standard pdk steering wheel on the 981 model. If the SD wheel was specified you get paddles that work as you describe (left down, right up) if it wasn’t, you get the senseless buttons that do what Chris describes. It’s a really important spec oversight and I think a lot of people don’t realise if they aren’t particularly familiar with the 981. For reference, standard steering wheel (with buttons): Sports Design (with paddles): Ah thanks for that. Does that mean if I get the Sports Design steering wheel this will solve it? Has anyone done and any idea of cost etc. Many thanks

Chris722 said: SWGT3 said: HighwayStar said: This is in your 981 Box S? Pulling back on either paddle changes up and pushing either changes down? That’s now how it works in any paddle equipped Cayster I’ve driven. Pull left to change down, pull right to change up. Pull both gives you neutral. Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 8th April 18:11 I think this relates back to my point about the Sports Design steering wheel. I think what Chris is describing is how the buttons work on the standard pdk steering wheel on the 981 model. If the SD wheel was specified you get paddles that work as you describe (left down, right up) if it wasn’t, you get the senseless buttons that do what Chris describes. It’s a really important spec oversight and I think a lot of people don’t realise if they aren’t particularly familiar with the 981. For reference, standard steering wheel (with buttons): Sports Design (with paddles): Ah thanks for that. Does that mean if I get the Sports Design steering wheel this will solve it? Has anyone done and any idea of cost etc. Many thanks in a word, yes... There are various threads on PH. Someone who has done it: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Other links from a google search Standard/Sport Design Swap

Chris722 said: Ah thanks for that. Does that mean if I get the Sports Design steering wheel this will solve it? Has anyone done and any idea of cost etc. Many thanks I bought my 981S as a two year old (12 plate). The selling garage said they would get the 2 year service done before I picked the car up. I asked them to change the steering wheel at the same time. Cost me just Over £1K for the wheel change!!! That was in 2014.

Chris722 said: SWGT3 said: HighwayStar said: This is in your 981 Box S? Pulling back on either paddle changes up and pushing either changes down? That’s now how it works in any paddle equipped Cayster I’ve driven. Pull left to change down, pull right to change up. Pull both gives you neutral. Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 8th April 18:11 I think this relates back to my point about the Sports Design steering wheel. I think what Chris is describing is how the buttons work on the standard pdk steering wheel on the 981 model. If the SD wheel was specified you get paddles that work as you describe (left down, right up) if it wasn’t, you get the senseless buttons that do what Chris describes. It’s a really important spec oversight and I think a lot of people don’t realise if they aren’t particularly familiar with the 981. For reference, standard steering wheel (with buttons): Sports Design (with paddles): Ah thanks for that. Does that mean if I get the Sports Design steering wheel this will solve it? Has anyone done and any idea of cost etc. Many thanks I like the button design. Ergonomically it is beautifully done and very comfortable, but it does take some thinking about, concentration and practice to get used to as most people assume pushing is to change down and pulling to change up, when it is the other way around for Porsche.

Aircooled_Bug said: I like the button design. Ergonomically it is beautifully done and very comfortable, but it does take some thinking about, concentration and practice to get used to as most people assume pushing is to change down and pulling to change up, when it is the other way around for Porsche. I like the buttons too (981 Boxster), work really well for me. And I've driven several cars with the more "traditional" paddles. If I want to change gear during a tight turn (yeah, I know...) I don't need to check where the paddle is. I've got pull for down and push for up on both sides of the wheel without needing to look.

I'm glad my 2015 981 pdk has got the proper paddles, I hate buttons and switches cluttering up the steering wheel. One of the best features of the car for me.

Nyloc20 said: I'm glad my 2015 981 pdk has got the proper paddles, I hate buttons and switches cluttering up the steering wheel. One of the best features of the car for me. This, all day long.

Seriously, if you want a manual buy a manual. I can't see it makes the blindest bit of difference whether an auto is given its instructions via a button, a paddle or the old-fashioned lever - they all do the same job. The whole concept of buying an auto and driving it in manual is bonkers. No point having a dog and barking yourself.

Both box types have their merits; one + with PDK is the Launch Control option coupled with Sport Plus mode. My favourite PDK trick (which no one has mentioned so I assume they don't use) is the auto downshift function (instigated with a quick forceful tap on the throttle) that sets the car up for entry into roundabouts/corners - once you get into it its another bit of involvement; makes the car a bit more exciting. Drive along in D and when you want to prepare for a corner/roundabout entry, just before going for the brake tap the throttle quickly (it's the speed of application that triggers the function) depending on the speed the box will drop 1, 2 or maybe 3 gears ready for reapplying the throttle - it works on the bigger cars too (which are generally looking for economy - hence the disdain for the Pan PDK above) especially EU6 Cayenne that have a habit of feeling a bit 'nothing or everything' out of roundabouts - wake it up with a prod!

rockin said: Seriously, if you want a manual buy a manual. I can't see it makes the blindest bit of difference whether an auto is given its instructions via a button, a paddle or the old-fashioned lever - they all do the same job. The whole concept of buying an auto and driving it in manual is bonkers. No point having a dog and barking yourself. Why? Some people might want the option to switch , and also have other people drive the car But I do agree that you cannot compare manual shifting to button pushing and doubt anyone regularly manually shifts a proper PDK box , the computer is good enough and the point of it is to focus on driving

rockin said: Seriously, if you want a manual buy a manual. I can't see it makes the blindest bit of difference whether an auto is given its instructions via a button, a paddle or the old-fashioned lever - they all do the same job. The whole concept of buying an auto and driving it in manual is bonkers. No point having a dog and barking yourself. I really like the option of being able to switch. I probably only use the paddles 25% of the time but it certainly makes the journey more involving when I’m in the mood.

dvshannow said: rockin said: Seriously, if you want a manual buy a manual. I can't see it makes the blindest bit of difference whether an auto is given its instructions via a button, a paddle or the old-fashioned lever - they all do the same job. The whole concept of buying an auto and driving it in manual is bonkers. No point having a dog and barking yourself. Why? Some people might want the option to switch , and also have other people drive the car But I do agree that you cannot compare manual shifting to button pushing and doubt anyone regularly manually shifts a proper PDK box , the computer is good enough and the point of it is to focus on driving There will undoubtedly be a few who have it in manual all the time. Personally when I’m trundling around or sitting on the motor I leave it in auto (occasionally using the paddles) but on my favourite back roads I have it in manual. No argument from me re manual v PDK. There’s pros and cons for both and we all know what they are and everyone’s perspective on them. My 981 is a keeper but I fancy an old style hot hatch to go with it. That would be manual.

rockin said: Seriously, if you want a manual buy a manual. I can't see it makes the blindest bit of difference whether an auto is given its instructions via a button, a paddle or the old-fashioned lever - they all do the same job. The whole concept of buying an auto and driving it in manual is bonkers. No point having a dog and barking yourself. It is my wife’s car so needs to be an auto I am afraid.

Chris722 said: rockin said: Seriously, if you want a manual buy a manual. I can't see it makes the blindest bit of difference whether an auto is given its instructions via a button, a paddle or the old-fashioned lever - they all do the same job. The whole concept of buying an auto and driving it in manual is bonkers. No point having a dog and barking yourself. It is my wife’s car so needs to be an auto I am afraid. The problem with PDK in auto is that the car has to anticipate the driver. In normal slow driving this is no issue ... but when accelerating hard to a speed the auto box then holds a low gear for a number of seconds until it agrees that you don't want to continue accelerating ... which is disconcerting. In all driving conditions when driving PDK in manual the changes are much faster than a manual and can be full throttle if you like ... and you can run up and down the box by counting ... 5th to 2nd is three clicks down etc ... The stick change is useful when large steering lock angles are required for example when pulling out of junctions, but the paddles on the wheel are much more convenient the rest of the time IMHO. But there is something very satisfying about driving a manual, balancing the revs and make smooth but swift progress ! It isn't the fastest, but it is fun.

Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks

ClaphamBoxS said: Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks This is one way to go.... CarPlay on 981 PCM 3.1 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

HighwayStar said: ClaphamBoxS said: Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks This is one way to go.... CarPlay on 981 PCM 3.1 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Thanks that’s really helpful.....guess i will need to get that installed if i go with the car... How do others see sat nav? is carplay considered essential or do people just use their phones? Voice is ok but nothing really beats actually seeing it on a map ?

ClaphamBoxS said: Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks I have had a new stereo installed as the original had no Nav or DAB. I went for this one https://www.halfords.com/technology/car-audio/andr... It works really well and I use Waze for satnav.

Pope said: Both box types have their merits; one + with PDK is the Launch Control option coupled with Sport Plus mode. My favourite PDK trick (which no one has mentioned so I assume they don't use) is the auto downshift function (instigated with a quick forceful tap on the throttle) that sets the car up for entry into roundabouts/corners - once you get into it its another bit of involvement; makes the car a bit more exciting. Drive along in D and when you want to prepare for a corner/roundabout entry, just before going for the brake tap the throttle quickly (it's the speed of application that triggers the function) depending on the speed the box will drop 1, 2 or maybe 3 gears ready for reapplying the throttle - it works on the bigger cars too (which are generally looking for economy - hence the disdain for the Pan PDK above) especially EU6 Cayenne that have a habit of feeling a bit 'nothing or everything' out of roundabouts - wake it up with a prod! Can I just say thanks for this POPE, never knew about this and have been having much fun over the last few days perfecting the technique!!! Cayman 2010 S

ClaphamBoxS said: HighwayStar said: ClaphamBoxS said: Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks This is one way to go.... CarPlay on 981 PCM 3.1 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Thanks that’s really helpful.....guess i will need to get that installed if i go with the car... How do others see sat nav? is carplay considered essential or do people just use their phones? Voice is ok but nothing really beats actually seeing it on a map ? I came to my 981 (no sat nav) from an Audi with sat nav. I thought I’d really miss it. Frankly, I don’t give it a second thought. Inconspicuous magnetic mount for phone and Waze is plenty good enough. A bigger issue for me was lack of Bluetooth music (not same as Bluetooth for phone calls). But a cheap dongle in the glove box sorted that out and it works fine.

Jawls said: ClaphamBoxS said: HighwayStar said: ClaphamBoxS said: Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks This is one way to go.... CarPlay on 981 PCM 3.1 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Thanks that’s really helpful.....guess i will need to get that installed if i go with the car... How do others see sat nav? is carplay considered essential or do people just use their phones? Voice is ok but nothing really beats actually seeing it on a map ? I came to my 981 (no sat nav) from an Audi with sat nav. I thought I’d really miss it. Frankly, I don’t give it a second thought. Inconspicuous magnetic mount for phone and Waze is plenty good enough. A bigger issue for me was lack of Bluetooth music (not same as Bluetooth for phone calls). But a cheap dongle in the glove box sorted that out and it works fine. Thanks can you tell me which one you use? currently use a plug in one in the 12v / cigarette lighter socket but i assume that it will be different in the glove box? Thanks

ClaphamBoxS said: Jawls said: ClaphamBoxS said: HighwayStar said: ClaphamBoxS said: Hi original poster here..... Just on a tangent but if the car has a display screen and bluetooth but not sat nav how easy is it to get that function perhaps via Apple maps . ? or would it require Apple Carplay to get that function.? I think at present when i link my iphone via bluetooth but on a car with no screen i can get audio directions but not sure if those would display on a screen... Thanks This is one way to go.... CarPlay on 981 PCM 3.1 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Thanks that’s really helpful.....guess i will need to get that installed if i go with the car... How do others see sat nav? is carplay considered essential or do people just use their phones? Voice is ok but nothing really beats actually seeing it on a map ? I came to my 981 (no sat nav) from an Audi with sat nav. I thought I’d really miss it. Frankly, I don’t give it a second thought. Inconspicuous magnetic mount for phone and Waze is plenty good enough. A bigger issue for me was lack of Bluetooth music (not same as Bluetooth for phone calls). But a cheap dongle in the glove box sorted that out and it works fine. Thanks can you tell me which one you use? currently use a plug in one in the 12v / cigarette lighter socket but i assume that it will be different in the glove box? Thanks USB in the glovebox. I have the PCM with SatNav/Bluetooth etc but I tend to use Waze on my iPhone. I am tempted by the CarPlay mod though.

Ben La said: Can I just say thanks for this POPE, never knew about this and have been having much fun over the last few days perfecting the technique!!! Cayman 2010 S Or just click down to the gear you want on the paddles or stick, you will get around 15 seconds before it goes back into auto mode.

Ben La said: Pope said: Both box types have their merits; one + with PDK is the Launch Control option coupled with Sport Plus mode. My favourite PDK trick (which no one has mentioned so I assume they don't use) is the auto downshift function (instigated with a quick forceful tap on the throttle) that sets the car up for entry into roundabouts/corners - once you get into it its another bit of involvement; makes the car a bit more exciting. Drive along in D and when you want to prepare for a corner/roundabout entry, just before going for the brake tap the throttle quickly (it's the speed of application that triggers the function) depending on the speed the box will drop 1, 2 or maybe 3 gears ready for reapplying the throttle - it works on the bigger cars too (which are generally looking for economy - hence the disdain for the Pan PDK above) especially EU6 Cayenne that have a habit of feeling a bit 'nothing or everything' out of roundabouts - wake it up with a prod! Can I just say thanks for this POPE, never knew about this and have been having much fun over the last few days perfecting the technique!!! Cayman 2010 S Dont forget that normal drive mode is basically eco mode in other brands. So this will be sleepy gear changes, sleepy throttle response and sleepy everything. I only use this mode for traffic. The rest of the time I leave it in sport mode. You can therefore think of sport mode as more normal if you think of normal as eco. I never use sport plus because its mental. The car will be at maximum revs all that time and throttle response is like an on off switch. The car does adjust to your driving style. And it does this in real time. I dont think it monitors steering movement and lateral g but it definitely monitors accelerating and braking. So if you engage sport mode from normal mode you will find the car stays in a lower gear. Lets say 3rd instead of 4th at 30 to 40mph. [Sport plus would be 1st.] Then if you drive around sedately you will find the car will calm down if that makes sense and relax the modes a bit. But like Pope says a quick prod of the throttle and release or hard braking will wake it up and it will switch to a more aggressive mode in anticipation of some excitement. I find driving like this means I never need to override with manual changes. Occasionally I use manual mode for a change but I use the lever. I understand the paddles might be preferable but it's worth pointing out that the standard wheel comes in multi function and it is heated in mine. I really like the heated wheel because if you want to get the roof down in cold weather then a heated wheel and seats is a must in this country. Back to our example of driving along at 30 to 40 you will probably be in 5th if the car is in normal or eco mode. I think it will choose 7th at around 50mph. [I think it never chooses 7th in sport plus.] So if you are preparing for an over take in Normal eco mode the Pope style quick prod and release is much more useful. The car will probably drop down 2 or 3 gears to 2nd. If you give it a big enough prod it does this quickly. It doesn't go through the gears it goes straight from say 5th to 2nd. If you don't do the prod first and just push the throttle the moment you want to go then the car is a slow to wake up. This sleepy response is a bit disappointing in normal mode which is why I try to avoid it. Its worth also mentioning the button or switch at the bottom of the pedal movement. So if you floor the throttle at any time and get to the bottom of its travel this switch or button seems to override anything else the car is thinking and tells it to wake the F up. But like I keep saying the difference is barely noticeable if you are already in sport but very noticeable if you are in normal eco mode. Lastly let's talk about reliability. I think the PDK box makes more sense in terms of risk and reliability with a second hand buy. My 981 has been poorly since I wrote it off and then repaired it at home on the drive. If the fluids - it takes 2 types - are full and fresh then the box should just work. I also have an old manual 996 and on these cars you need to consider clutch life and also the cables which run from the lever to the box and also the shifter itself which develops slop and play, also the pipe which carries fluid from the pedal to the slave cylinder, the master cylinder behind the clutch pedal and then the box itself which eats through bearings and 2nd gear synchro. I have basically replaced most of these things on my 996 which has cost me about 4000. But I have not done the clutch itself or the master cylinder. So with a PDK you have to worry about none of these things. My PDK has a leak which is yet to be fully diagnosed due to lock down but it's on my to do list. There are a few owners who have sprung leaks and Porsche will not repair these boxes so if you develop a problem even as simple as a leak then it is replacement only. This is very rare. Independent Gearbox Specialists will not even go near these boxes generally because Porsche do not supply spares. So even simple rubbers or seals can not be sourced. So there is a teeny tiny bit of risk there worth mentioning. But compared to the shopping list of parts above on the manual car I think its the better bet as a second hand purchase. Finally if any of you PDK owners notice a slight Jerk when changing from 1st to 2nd when the car is stone cold then let me tell you this is your clutch fluid. I top up mine at home with basic tools. If it is full to the brim it changes perfectly even when stone cold. As it starts to leak out over time then this first shift when cold begins to develop a jerk. Gradually this jerk spreads to the other gears and eventually starts throwing up error codes. I then brim the clutch fluid and it drives perfectly again. So trust me when I tell you I have tested this over and over and over and it always behaves the same. It's a 25 minute job to top up. If you are DIY minded I'd be dropping the old fluid out and putting in fresh. It will take you an hour to do all that. I have used 3 different fluids and they all work fine. More info in my car's blog if anyone is interested. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Melvynr said: Or just click down to the gear you want on the paddles or stick, you will get around 15 seconds before it goes back into auto mode. Yeah thats what I would do until now, but the pedal trick seems a little quicker and as Pope says it feels a little more engaging to me. Theres also a bit more noise Edited by Ben La on Sunday 18th April 10:10

ClaphamBoxS said: Thanks can you tell me which one you use? currently use a plug in one in the 12v / cigarette lighter socket but i assume that it will be different in the glove box? Thanks I use this one: [2019 Upgraded] Bluetooth Aux... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075T9ZXK4?ref=ppx_pop... Draws power from the 12v in glovebox so you end up using both the aux input and the 12v there.

Having had lots of manual cars and now a PDK - I really like PDK - its lightning quick and a no brainer when you are feeling lazy Paddles are defiantly best and just add to the drama of driving such a great car. I drive 90% in manual mode, never use the stick - mostly sport + in manual for added fun 365 days a year, whatever the weather - still pulls a wheel spin 2nd to 3rd on full throttle Brilliant fun.

khushy said: still pulls a wheel spin 2nd to 3rd on full throttle Brilliant fun. IIRC a PDK at full throttle wouldn't change gear on its own until 75 mph so presumably you're pulling the paddle before it gets there and arriving in 3rd at a high enough engine speed that it's around peak torque. Gives the transmission/driveline a severe hammering without the car going particularly fast. Curious.

OP here.... So....picked up my new (to me) 981 today.... Nice drive home along M4 M25 and M1 Having dropped off my 2001 S as px i can only say....WOW.....just blown away already....the PDK box is fabulous,using the kick down sends it forward at a rate of knots and the manual option is a bonus indeed. Inside.. blown away how much better quality the trim level is,love the sports seats and a really good spec list...it rides smoothly and the sport option just transforms the performance.... I think i can say it’s a keeper...

sorry obligatory photo.....

Very nice and like the colour, just in time for summer on its way.

Thanks yeah it’s the Sapphire Blue Metallic....i pxd my BoxsterS so was already on course for a open air summer but now it’s going to be many times better.... Now perusing accessories....hmm...think i NEED. a boot liner...because....well just because....laughs....

ClaphamBoxS said: Now perusing accessories. I bought a some transparent polycarbonate and cut it to exactly fit the slot where the "wind deflector net" clips between the seats. Works very well, completely eliminating the impression in the rear view mirror that you're driving along in a kitchen sieve...

ClaphamBoxS said: Having dropped off my 2001 S as px i can only say....WOW.....just blown away already....the PDK box is fabulous,using the kick down sends it forward at a rate of knots and the manual option is a bonus indeed. Totally different cars. Possibly an unfair comparison I still fancy another 986 but that's a conversation for another day. Glad you're loving it. Have you got sport exhaust - switch near gear knob?

ATM said: ClaphamBoxS said: Having dropped off my 2001 S as px i can only say....WOW.....just blown away already....the PDK box is fabulous,using the kick down sends it forward at a rate of knots and the manual option is a bonus indeed. Totally different cars. Possibly an unfair comparison I still fancy another 986 but that's a conversation for another day. Glad you're loving it. Have you got sport exhaust - switch near gear knob? Hi yeah it’s probably unfair to compare them,but still extremely pleased with what i have now.... No PSE....but the noise it makes without it esp when kicking down doesn’t disappoint...it’s only the 2,7 version but it goes fine!!!.,it does have the sport mode and there’s def a change when that’s selected...

ClaphamBoxS said: No PSE....but the noise it makes without it esp when kicking down doesn’t disappoint... The standard exhaust makes a good sound IMO if you actually use the throttle pedal. I'm no fan of cars that potter down the High Street with an exhaust sounding like a stanced Corsa.

rockin said: ClaphamBoxS said: No PSE....but the noise it makes without it esp when kicking down doesn’t disappoint... The standard exhaust makes a good sound IMO if you actually use the throttle pedal. I'm no fan of cars that potter down the High Street with an exhaust sounding like a stanced Corsa. Laughs....left our village this morning with Mrs CB....got out of the 30 and after blipping the throttle stamped on the loud pedal....it got very loud very quickly and it made it hard to hear Mrs CB screaming Nooooo.......hmmm....

ClaphamBoxS said: rockin said: ClaphamBoxS said: No PSE....but the noise it makes without it esp when kicking down doesn’t disappoint... The standard exhaust makes a good sound IMO if you actually use the throttle pedal. I'm no fan of cars that potter down the High Street with an exhaust sounding like a stanced Corsa. Laughs....left our village this morning with Mrs CB....got out of the 30 and after blipping the throttle stamped on the loud pedal....it got very loud very quickly and it made it hard to hear Mrs CB screaming Nooooo.......hmmm.... Sounds like you're using normal mode. That's just a guess as you're mentioning the blip before you want to go. Once you get used to normal mode give sport a try. At first it will be a good deal more alert and perhaps a bit much - depending on your view. But after a few minutes of driving sensibly in sport it starts to tone down. Then you don't need really need to do the throttle blip as much because the car is not totally asleep, although yes it still works. Think of the modes as having a range. The sleepy end of the normal range is painfully rubbish if you suddenly decide you want to go. Where you have that moment where the car doesn'tseem to do anything and you're left thinking what is the car doing. The sleepy end of sport range will never do that.

Thanks Pope and ATM for the info on throttle blip changes, likewise I was unaware. I guess it's in the handbook but after driving many cars in last 45 years I assume I can work stuff without needing to read the book... Wrong in this case and I've been missing out 😀

Gave Sport mode a go today....yep exactly as you said...far far more responsive,longer change ups and much much better.....god knows what Sport+ would do if i had it...also really like the 15seconds or so of ooomph in Auto mode if you drop down a gear or so...maks the overtake much easier...

ClaphamBoxS said: Laughs....left our village this morning with Mrs CB....got out of the 30 and after blipping the throttle stamped on the loud pedal....it got very loud very quickly and it made it hard to hear Mrs CB screaming Nooooo.......hmmm.... Was the engine up to temp before you stamped? Water 90°, oil 80°...?

Absolutely....am really careful about that....

ClaphamBoxS said: Gave Sport mode a go today....yep exactly as you said...far far more responsive,longer change ups and much much better.....god knows what Sport+ would do if i had it...also really like the 15seconds or so of ooomph in Auto mode if you drop down a gear or so...maks the overtake much easier... So if you don't have it does that mean you don't have the little clock in between the air vents?

As far as i know Sport + is part of the Sport Chrono so will include the clock.....but happy to be corrected?

ClaphamBoxS said: As far as i know Sport + is part of the Sport Chrono so will include the clock.....but happy to be corrected? Not sure hence the question. Do you have Chrono?

ClaphamBoxS said: As far as i know Sport + is part of the Sport Chrono so will include the clock.....but happy to be corrected? Correct. The other benefit of sport chrono is the semi track mode setting for the stability management (PSM). Of course the real PH drivers just turn it off completely when on track, right...?

Lexington59 said: ClaphamBoxS said: As far as i know Sport + is part of the Sport Chrono so will include the clock.....but happy to be corrected? Correct. The other benefit of sport chrono is the semi track mode setting for the stability management (PSM). Of course the real PH drivers just turn it off completely when on track, right...? I thought the standard sport mode also adjusts the PSM to allow a little more slip angle before jumping in?

No i don’t have the Chrono package...Sport mode definitely feels like it wants to a. elaerate harder and faster...just feels more agile?

ATM said: Lexington59 said: ClaphamBoxS said: As far as i know Sport + is part of the Sport Chrono so will include the clock.....but happy to be corrected? Correct. The other benefit of sport chrono is the semi track mode setting for the stability management (PSM). Of course the real PH drivers just turn it off completely when on track, right...? I thought the standard sport mode also adjusts the PSM to allow a little more slip angle before jumping in? Yep... Sport allows a little more slip... Sport Plus... more slip again. Each giving you a bit more leash but ultimately watching over you in case you’re too ambitious. Also PDK changes faster in each setting.

This sums up what Chrono does , taken from another blog. In essence, the Sport Chrono Package is optimised for PDK 718's. One of the key features of SCP on PDK cars is rapid-fire gear changes with throttle blipping on downshifts, the holding of intermediate gears for a longer duration before upshifting, a launch control feature, and the Sport Response Button. On cars fitted with Dynamic Engine Mounts the mountings tighten to provide a more responsive chassis feel. Finally in addition, pressing the Porsche Stability Management for 2 seconds engages the PSM Sport Mode which further delays the intervention of the electronic stability aids such as ABS, PTV, and traction control. This feature is very useful for track day activities and is not available on 718's without the SPC option.

Melvynr said: This sums up what Chrono does , taken from another blog. On cars fitted with Dynamic Engine Mounts the mountings tighten to provide a more responsive chassis feel. How is the reliablity of the ‘dynamic engine mounts’ ? Any issues...?

Newton472 said: How is the reliablity of the ‘dynamic engine mounts’ ? Any issues...? Dont know, I have a GT3.Was just following the PDK aspect of the thread.

Melvynr said: Newton472 said: How is the reliablity of the ‘dynamic engine mounts’ ? Any issues...? Dont know, I have a GT3.Was just following the PDK aspect of the thread. I’ve had 2 replaced on my 981 CS in 4 years. Replaced under warranty. Around £1500 a pop if you’re out of warranty. General driving you wouldn’t notice any difference if you didn’t get the dreaded.... Just avoid spirited driving until the mount has been replaced.

Having no intention to track the car and being told that as said above they are £1500 a pop then it was something i wasn’t interested in getting....

ClaphamBoxS said: Having no intention to track the car and being told that as said above they are £1500 a pop then it was something i wasn’t interested in getting.... You won’t miss much. More unnecessary options for the red stitching crowd. Apart from the track mode PSM perhaps...

jimbo761 said: ClaphamBoxS said: Having no intention to track the car and being told that as said above they are £1500 a pop then it was something i wasn’t interested in getting.... You won’t miss much. More unnecessary options for the red stitching crowd. Apart from the track mode PSM perhaps... I’ve never tracked the car... red stitching, how presumptuous! Though nicely specced, the previous owner didn’t option fancy stitching