Lovely 993 on CC - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

What’s the value of this? Vs what do you think it’ll make on there? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-porsche-9...

Put 993 4S in the search bar on CC and look at the sold cars. They're generally £75k+ with higher miles, so I'd expect circa £85k+ on this one.

Looks quite nice, but not exceptional, and prices have eased back. Driver’s seat looks like it’s done more than the 60k mls.

What about this one just came up for sale this week.... One-Off 911 Turbo S in Vanilla Yellow paint, a shade of white with a mint green sparkle, all factory original

The interior is hideous! The modern 911 has lost so much heritage when you look at that example though. The old lines are just so stunning.

jason61c said: What’s the value of this? Vs what do you think it’ll make on there? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-porsche-9... It has windscreen issues.

supersport said: The interior is hideous! The modern 911 has lost so much heritage when you look at that example though. The old lines are just so stunning. yours for all the 8's $888,888 https://www.pfaffreserve.com/used/hf/toronto/vehic...

g7jhp said: Put 993 4S in the search bar on CC and look at the sold cars. They're generally £75k+ with higher miles, so I'd expect circa £85k+ on this one. yep - this Assuming it checks out - got to be worth £90k

I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for lets face it a car that is lovely to look at but such an ordinary steer as far as reference 911s go over the years. Throw in inevitable new regs and exponentially rising price of fuel I think its a good time to be getting out of expensive trinkets we barely use IMO. I hardly see a 993 on road in the wild.

Desert Dragon said: I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for lets face it a car that is lovely to look at but such an ordinary steer as far as reference 911s go over the years. Throw in inevitable new regs and exponentially rising price of fuel I think its a good time to be getting out of expensive trinkets we barely use IMO. I hardly see a 993 on road in the wild. I’ve got more capable cars in the garage but given the choice I’ll reach for the 993 keys all the time. Massively flawed and not that fast by todays standards but it always and I mean always makes me smile

Glassman said: jason61c said: What’s the value of this? Vs what do you think it’ll make on there? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-porsche-9... It has windscreen issues. As you well know, they all do! 😉

Aww I only clicked to read the usual salesman-patter-on-selling-a-993, and there is none yet Koln-RS said: Looks quite nice, but not exceptional, and prices have eased back. Driver’s seat looks like it’s done more than the 60k mls. Yes it looks neither loved nor abused. Cosmetics uncared for. I'd guess garaged but little use. Can't see the windscreen issues? But (honestly) I never saw the appeal of the 993 S cars - just a wider bit of metal at the back, and the designers forced to work with the existing light-bar width and indicator shape means the rear WB bumper shape and curves ruins the rear's cohesiveness. Looks like a fat bloke who's taken a huge breath, held it, and puffed out his cheeks. (yes I know the 4S has some better mechanical bits on it) And has somebody put hollowspokes on it? Seems to have metal valve stems, but they could just be.... metal valve stems.

Glassman said: jason61c said: What’s the value of this? Vs what do you think it’ll make on there? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-porsche-9... It has windscreen issues. Out of interest what and where are the windscreen issues (rust)?

Nurburgsingh said: Desert Dragon said: I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for lets face it a car that is lovely to look at but such an ordinary steer as far as reference 911s go over the years. Throw in inevitable new regs and exponentially rising price of fuel I think its a good time to be getting out of expensive trinkets we barely use IMO. I hardly see a 993 on road in the wild. I’ve got more capable cars in the garage but given the choice I’ll reach for the 993 keys all the time. Massively flawed and not that fast by todays standards but it always and I mean always makes me smile Tend to agree. I use my 4S year round. It's plenty fast enough for the road and whilst there might be 'better' 911s the 4S is a good compromise as a sporty GT car. This example looks nice but the interior is suspiciously worn for the mileage. Both front seats in particular look very well used. Mine has 68k miles but a much nicer interior. Maybe it spent most of its life in the city with plenty of short trips

julian987R said: What about this one just came up for sale this week.... One-Off 911 Turbo S in Vanilla Yellow paint, a shade of white with a mint green sparkle, all factory original That interior

jason61c said: What’s the value of this? Vs what do you think it’ll make on there? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-porsche-9... The 993 really suits the wider body. Styling of the 911s of all ages really does seem to improve with age.

julian987R said: What about this one just came up for sale this week.... One-Off 911 Turbo S in Vanilla Yellow paint, a shade of white with a mint green sparkle, all factory original Interior is horrendous in fact absolutely disgusting! $888,888 is comical…….I wouldn’t drive it if you gave it to me.

g7jhp said: Glassman said: jason61c said: What’s the value of this? Vs what do you think it’ll make on there? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-porsche-9... It has windscreen issues. Out of interest what and where are the windscreen issues (rust)? Id like to know about the windscreen issues..... out of the 197 odd detailed pics, there's none showing rust. The seat a little worn, such an easy thing to fix if you're scared of a little patina.

g7jhp said: Out of interest what and where are the windscreen issues (rust)? Typically in the scuttle and recess between the glass edge and bodywork. Same on the rear. It can happen with age, but usually helped along if it's had a new windscreen (and the fitter scored/scratched the paintwork) or that the scuttle has been repainted. Most painters/bodyshops put all the effort into making the bit you see look nice because the windscreen fitter will splodge a load of sealer there, 'so it don't matter'. Painting over the old adhesive is very common (but a massive no-no). On this car, if you zoom in you can see the antenna is visible on the driver side, plus there appears to be a bit of 'something' acting like putty on the radius curve. Red flag. this car has windscreen issues.

Glassman said: g7jhp said: Out of interest what and where are the windscreen issues (rust)? Typically in the scuttle and recess between the glass edge and bodywork. Same on the rear. It can happen with age, but usually helped along if it's had a new windscreen (and the fitter scored/scratched the paintwork) or that the scuttle has been repainted. Most painters/bodyshops put all the effort into making the bit you see look nice because the windscreen fitter will splodge a load of sealer there, 'so it don't matter'. Painting over the old adhesive is very common (but a massive no-no). On this car, if you zoom in you can see the antenna is visible on the driver side, plus there appears to be a bit of 'something' acting like putty on the radius curve. Red flag. this car has windscreen issues. which photo number are you looking at?

The windscreen has almost certainly been replaced - look at photo 66 where the cosmetic rubber trim doesn't quite reach to cover the aperture - so the screen is not exactly in the centre - not how it probably left the factory. So those with OCD will have issues. But it's hardly a red flag. It may simply need the screen being done by someone who knows what they are doing and ideally has the fitting templates. There may or may not be rust underneath - you'd have to go and look, lift the rubber and not rely on assumptions.

jason61c said: which photo number are you looking at? 64,65 and 66 shows how the windscreen is sat high. Zoom in on 155 and have a look in the corner.

Orangecurry said: The windscreen has almost certainly been replaced - look at photo 66 where the cosmetic rubber trim doesn't quite reach to cover the aperture - so the screen is not exactly in the centre - not how it probably left the factory. So those with OCD will have issues. But it's hardly a red flag. It may simply need the screen being done by someone who knows what they are doing and ideally has the fitting templates. There may or may not be rust underneath - you'd have to go and look, lift the rubber and not rely on assumptions. Mr OC wants to engage again.

Glassman said: 64,65 and 66 shows how the windscreen is sat high. Zoom in on 155 and have a look in the corner. well first off, good eyes. so a poorly fitted replacement, not quite 'red flag'!

jason61c said: Glassman said: 64,65 and 66 shows how the windscreen is sat high. Zoom in on 155 and have a look in the corner. well first off, good eyes. so a poorly fitted replacement, not quite 'red flag'! It may not be a replacement. It might have been removed and refitted for a scuttle repair. The recess around the windscreen will have water pooling in the bottom corners. The 'putty' on the inside is probably to stop it getting into the cabin. If there's water there (very likely) it will be swooshing around in there working away on any exposed paint edge or bared metal. It's rare to remove a 993 windscreen and not find any issues with the paint or substrate. Most, if not all poorly fitted windscreens I've removed and refitted have needed some remedial work to the substrate. Some have been referred to a bodyshop. No assumptions. Basing on experience. The car in question probably will be okay but lifting the rubber up doesn't tell you much. You can see the windscreen isn't right. Only removing it will reveal what's under it.

Desert Dragon said: I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for lets face it a car that is lovely to look at but such an ordinary steer as far as reference 911s go over the years. Throw in inevitable new regs and exponentially rising price of fuel I think its a good time to be getting out of expensive trinkets we barely use IMO. I hardly see a 993 on road in the wild. I see one a couple of times a week, I assume it’s the same chap that used his 993RS daily. There are less around at this time of year, but you see them out and about a lot in the non winter months. Sadly you do see less of the older air cooled cars around, shame to not use them.

supersport said: Desert Dragon said: I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for lets face it a car that is lovely to look at but such an ordinary steer as far as reference 911s go over the years. Throw in inevitable new regs and exponentially rising price of fuel I think its a good time to be getting out of expensive trinkets we barely use IMO. I hardly see a 993 on road in the wild. I see one a couple of times a week, I assume it’s the same chap that used his 993RS daily. There are less around at this time of year, but you see them out and about a lot in the non winter months. Sadly you do see less of the older air cooled cars around, shame to not use them. I loved my C2 but if someone wants to give me £90-£100k or whatever they are today I'd take their hands off every time. Nice but not that nice IMO. I'm in Herts and still see lots of 997s and 991s but not many air cooled of any type TBH. Whenever I do they have so much road presence even today. Saw a black or midnight blue 964 C2 a few months ago and it looked very cool. I think it would cost even more to get into a good 964 C2. There is a convertible 964 C2 at Hexagon for £100k. Just crazy if I had to part with hard cash I'd give £50k for it (reluctantly) - thats how far out I think the air cooled market is on some air cooled

A widebody C2S or C4S will always be a rare thing. Just not that many of them.

There is rust under the windscreen rubber, plus a number of other issues so the search goes on.....

Common issues with time on any 993. If you buy a 993 (and use it) you'll have same issue on any 993.

jason61c said: A widebody C2S or C4S will always be a rare thing. Just not that many of them. They are lovely looking cars, but I would not necessarily call them rare. I wonder how prices of all these cars will hold up when driving them will become more difficult and expensive while at the same time being less fun due to congestion and speed limits. I think normal people will move on to other hobbies (or at least downsize their car collection to one or maybe two weekend cars) and collectors will only want the low mileage unicorn examples (also not sure how many collectors there are that collect barns full of cars to never be driven), I'd say any car that you can easily acquire a very good example of / have multiple for sale at the same time, might possibly not stand the test of time in terms of rareness in a declining buyer universe. I'd still love one to drive while we still can relatively unimpeded, but at today's prices probably would not bank on getting my money back if I ever have to sell it.

Agree, totally daft prices. I bought a 996 back in the 2000s, I could have got a 993 for the same price or less, but preferred the 996 having driven both. Still glad I bought the 996, felt better in every way.

Export56 said: Agree, totally daft prices. I bought a 996 back in the 2000s, I could have got a 993 for the same price or less, but preferred the 996 having driven both. Still glad I bought the 996, felt better in every way. except with your eyeballs? Ones 'classic' in age, so a totally new car like the 996 would feel 'better'

Export56 said: Agree, totally daft prices. I bought a 996 back in the 2000s, I could have got a 993 for the same price or less, but preferred the 996 having driven both. Still glad I bought the 996, felt better in every way. You're missing the point of the older cars - not that they are 'old', but that they are more 'difficult' to drive, more agricultural, heavier control weight, yadda yadda - all areas that were improved in the 996, but at the cost of driver involvement. In the 993 the driver input is rewarded by more feedback from the car - being more directly connected, and so you (can) learn more and more each journey. The 996 is easier to drive, and drive faster, probably. What do you want from a car? As a low mileage investment, walk away, at least from the cooking 993, WB or NB. Having said that, look at the rise of the prices of the (WB) turbo-look G-series 911

Glassman said: It has windscreen issues. Orangecurry said: .../ (don't) rely on assumptions. jason61c said: There is rust under the windscreen rubber That's a shame. My guess it that it's had a remove and refit for scuttle repair/repaint. Edited by Glassman on Thursday 6th January 10:47

Every, almost every, new generation of the 911 is faster than the previous generation, easier to drive and so on. But that doesn't make them better. There is something very rewarding about peddling an old car down a decent road, for me as I have 3.2 and not a 993, no driver aids beyond the three peddles. Yes they aren't that fast any more, and very simple compared to a modern 911 without all the mod cons, but an absolute joy to drive. For me personally the 911 lost it's way with the 991 and definitely with the 992 which to me is utterly undesirable.

Has had very limited use in the last 14 years (c. 500 miles per year) according to MOT history but that only goes back to 2007. Strange how seats look worse than mine which has covered over 200,000 miles... Also noticed that the speedo reads to 200 mph - was this standard on the C4S? I thought it would have come with the same 180 mph speedo which could indicate a swap and explain the seats/suspicious mileage etc...

MDL111 said: They are lovely looking cars, but I would not necessarily call them rare. I wonder how prices of all these cars will hold up when driving them will become more difficult and expensive while at the same time being less fun due to congestion and speed limits. I think normal people will move on to other hobbies (or at least downsize their car collection to one or maybe two weekend cars) and collectors will only want the low mileage unicorn examples (also not sure how many collectors there are that collect barns full of cars to never be driven), I'd say any car that you can easily acquire a very good example of / have multiple for sale at the same time, might possibly not stand the test of time in terms of rareness in a declining buyer universe. I'd still love one to drive while we still can relatively unimpeded, but at today's prices probably would not bank on getting my money back if I ever have to sell it. Interestingly, the thing that stood out while researching the build on my SC was just how many ‘younger’ owners are driving - metaphorically and physically- air cooled cars. Not all are into the Outlaw culture. I think that perhaps they represent an escape from the usual automotive anodyne greyness. Having lived with aircooled 911’s for a few years now, other than the early GT3’s there is nothing that can match them for character and involvement. They become part of the family.

jason61c said: There is rust under the windscreen rubber, plus a number of other issues so the search goes on..... Rust under the windscreen could be repaired (at a cost). What were the 'number of other issues'?

g7jhp said: jason61c said: There is rust under the windscreen rubber, plus a number of other issues so the search goes on..... Rust under the windscreen could be repaired (at a cost). What were the 'number of other issues'? full scuttle repair needed rear bumper fit/alignment scuffs to interior poor rear arch repair/paint faulty heater/blower faulty radio some seals on panel joins need replacing old tyres incorrect seats from factory build

jason61c said: g7jhp said: jason61c said: There is rust under the windscreen rubber, plus a number of other issues so the search goes on..... Rust under the windscreen could be repaired (at a cost). What were the 'number of other issues'? full scuttle repair needed rear bumper fit/alignment scuffs to interior poor rear arch repair/paint faulty heater/blower faulty radio some seals on panel joins need replacing old tyres incorrect seats from factory build Nothing unusual on a 25 year old 993. Be realistic, if thats all it requires then its in rude health!

ras62 said: Nothing unusual on a 25 year old 993. Be realistic, if thats all it requires then its in rude health! at the asking price, you wouldn't be looking to spend the amount needed. Given that when you have the screen out, sort the scuttle, you'll then be at the point where you might as well have the bonnet and top of the wings done to help with the colour match. then possibly the bumper. do you sort the poor arch repair at the same time? Same for the heater issues. It can run away cost wise, you'll soon be into £££££'s.

jason61c said: ras62 said: Nothing unusual on a 25 year old 993. Be realistic, if thats all it requires then its in rude health! at the asking price, you wouldn't be looking to spend the amount needed. Given that when you have the screen out, sort the scuttle, you'll then be at the point where you might as well have the bonnet and top of the wings done to help with the colour match. then possibly the bumper. do you sort the poor arch repair at the same time? Same for the heater issues. It can run away cost wise, you'll soon be into £££££'s. This is the problem with so many cars especially air-cooled. Sellers wants top price but doesn't have a top car and isn't prepared to put right all the issues to make it a top car. They just hope the buyer goes in blind and takes a punt because it looks nice.

Anyone buying a 25 year old car blind deserves a bill or three. Its a cheap car atm but it will sell for much more irrespective of needing some work.

Love the car…….exterior is lovely inside why oh why…..and I love these as well….

Big Rat said: Love the car…….exterior is lovely inside why oh why…..and I love these as well…. There are two 993's now being discussed. The artic silver car looks OK, but as highlighted before needs work to bring it up to scratch. The black interior is fine but the seats are looking a little tired.

That windscreen is an awful fit. Look at the top left.

The mileage on some of these cars makes me laugh. Mine at 95k miles has a better interior than this! Shinier than a max mosley gestapo orgy.

Speaking from experience, if a potential buyer doesn't see £10k of invoices for ADDITIONAL work over routine maintenance in the last 5 years, they can expect to be stung for it. And that's not counting cosmetics. They're old cars, people use them sparingly and send them for an oil change thinking thats adequate: never going to be enough. Budget accordingly.

harrykul said: Speaking from experience, if a potential buyer doesn't see £10k of invoices for ADDITIONAL work over routine maintenance in the last 5 years, they can expect to be stung for it. And that's not counting cosmetics. They're old cars, people use them sparingly and send them for an oil change thinking thats adequate: never going to be enough. Budget accordingly. Sorry Harry I have to disagree - in normal use these cars were designed for lower maintenance, and therefore an oil change is 'enough'. They do not cost 2k per year to run. What can happen is that if a 25 year-old car has 15 years of accumulated neglect, then it will cost GBP 10k to get it back to 'normal'. The same as any other car, if it needs new suspension, any rust sorted, engine seals, belts, plugs/wires, clutch, brake consumables, calipers, tyres... all at the same time, then yes. But these things only need doing once per 60-100k miles, and once in a good state, 'normal' isn't GBP 2k per year.

Orangecurry said: Sorry Harry I have to disagree - in normal use these cars were designed for lower maintenance, and therefore an oil change is 'enough'. They do not cost 2k per year to run. What can happen is that if a 25 year-old car has 15 years of accumulated neglect, then it will cost GBP 10k to get it back to 'normal'. The same as any other car, if it needs new suspension, any rust sorted, engine seals, belts, plugs/wires, clutch, brake consumables, calipers, tyres... all at the same time, then yes. But these things only need doing once per 60-100k miles, and once in a good state, 'normal' isn't GBP 2k per year. Good Post - exactly my experience

Orangecurry said: harrykul said: Speaking from experience, if a potential buyer doesn't see £10k of invoices for ADDITIONAL work over routine maintenance in the last 5 years, they can expect to be stung for it. And that's not counting cosmetics. They're old cars, people use them sparingly and send them for an oil change thinking thats adequate: never going to be enough. Budget accordingly. Sorry Harry I have to disagree - in normal use these cars were designed for lower maintenance, and therefore an oil change is 'enough'. They do not cost 2k per year to run. What can happen is that if a 25 year-old car has 15 years of accumulated neglect, then it will cost GBP 10k to get it back to 'normal'. The same as any other car, if it needs new suspension, any rust sorted, engine seals, belts, plugs/wires, clutch, brake consumables, calipers, tyres... all at the same time, then yes. But these things only need doing once per 60-100k miles, and once in a good state, 'normal' isn't GBP 2k per year. Thats what this one is basically. I think its circa £10k needed(possibly more depending on how far you went matching in the paint. which is fine when is priced with that in mind....

julian987R said: What about this one just came up for sale this week.... One-Off 911 Turbo S in Vanilla Yellow paint, a shade of white with a mint green sparkle, all factory original That looks hideous but fair play to Porsche for going the whole way in customising this for the client. Yellow and orange switchgear to match the leather! Doubt they would do something like it these days

The switchgear has leather on top - impressive. But it's not 'fair play' to Porsche. Basically someone gave them flippin' great wodges of cash to do it, and they said 'Yes Sir!' laughing all the way to the bank. I'd have that car in a heartbeat, and junk the interior, stick some Recaros in it and drive it constantly. But not for the money they want for it's single (royalty) owner history.

I agree that once sorted, maintenance should be reasonable- one year it was £400 for me. The point was that these cars can have so much deferred maintenance and yet seem to be in good shape. It was the same with old mercs too, they hide problems well.

jason61c said: update on the auction. ...it was subject of a theft and minor damage in its very early life. A later inspection was carried out by Autolign for a previous owner in March 2007. This noted that there appeared to have been "minor repairs/repaint to exterior panels, no accident damage found to upper body". Some damage was noted to the front floor section and underside of the front bumper. No damage or defects were found to any of the front suspension components. Underfront scrapes could be from normal use, stolen recovered is never ideal, but if that was 20 years ago it's mostly irrelevant. More important is the 10 years of recent 'care' or otherwise. From when I was looking, the good ones only come up for sale occasionally. You have to be patient, or change what you'll accept. Good luck!

update on the auction. Please note: while the CAP HPI car history check for this vehicle is clean, a separate Experian vehicle check has revealed a Category D insurance marker from September 1998. The seller had a HPI check run prior to their purchase, which was clear as stated, and so believed there was no prior bodywork damage. Upon further investigation, the seller has discovered documents that show it was subject of a theft and minor damage in its very early life. A later inspection was carried out by Autolign for a previous owner in March 2007. This noted that there appeared to have been "minor repairs/repaint to exterior panels, no accident damage found to upper body". Some damage was noted to the front floor section and underside of the front bumper. No damage or defects were found to any of the front suspension components. Most importantly, the car was officially removed from the Condition Alert Register, and subsequently placed onto the Condition Inspected Register, confirming that any prior repairs met Autolign professional standards. The description has been updated accordingly. Moderator edit: no advertising

Orangecurry said: jason61c said: update on the auction. ...it was subject of a theft and minor damage in its very early life. A later inspection was carried out by Autolign for a previous owner in March 2007. This noted that there appeared to have been "minor repairs/repaint to exterior panels, no accident damage found to upper body". Some damage was noted to the front floor section and underside of the front bumper. No damage or defects were found to any of the front suspension components. Underfront scrapes could be from normal use, stolen recovered is never ideal, but if that was 20 years ago it's mostly irrelevant. More important is the 10 years of recent 'care' or otherwise. From when I was looking, the good ones only come up for sale occasionally. You have to be patient, or change what you'll accept. Good luck! A HPI check has it flagged as a cat D....... there seems to bits of the story that don't tally up at all.

Bidding at £77,500 - unlikely to attract any new bids now, I'd guess.

I think CC should stop the auction, clear up the description and give the seller and the buyers a fair chance. Given what needs doing, its CAT D. its already over value.

Looks like they may have done just that...

If you like yellow, you are in for a treat. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1996-porsche-9...

julian987R said: If you like yellow, you are in for a treat. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1996-porsche-9... That interior!

g7jhp said: julian987R said: If you like yellow, you are in for a treat. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1996-porsche-9... That interior! O M G

julian987R said: Even if you like yellow, you are in for a seizure. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS Fixed that for you.

Orangecurry said: julian987R said: Even if you like yellow, you are in for a seizure. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS Fixed that for you. I must say though I think it is amazing and a really shame that interiors like that aren’t options anymore.

I visited the factory back in the late 80’s and saw a few cars awaiting despatch to USA with similar interiors, yellow and another in orange stood out, both to the same extent as this one. Not surprised it’s done no miles, who’d want to sit in there for any length of time.

julian987R said: Orangecurry said: julian987R said: Even if you like yellow, you are in for a seizure. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS Fixed that for you. I must say though I think it is amazing and a really shame that interiors like that aren’t options anymore. If only it had a wooden gear knob….ya know….

Red calipers - what was he thinking........................?? An oh so obvious candidate for yellow paint...............

julian987R said: If you like driving around in a Sherbet Lemon, you are in for a treat. FTFY

Orangecurry said: julian987R said: Even if you like yellow, you are in for a seizure. 993 in Ferrari Gelb - PTS Fixed that for you. Looks terrific (but only from the outside).