What is a 997.2 Carrera like to drive? - Page 1 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I'm keen to get back into a sports car in the next year having been out of one for 6 years, and now with a little one I am looking at 2+2 options rather than the 2 seaters I've had in the past. A 997.2 looks like the most appealing option at the moment, in either 2 or 2S spec with a manual box. I owned a Cayman 987.2 for a short period and really enjoyed it although it was slightly soft coming out of an Exige beforehand, and while the interior of the 997.2 I expect is very similar to the 987, I expect they are quite different to drive. It would be a weekend/high day car, and not used for daily use. I want something that is fun to drive down a good B road when the opportunity allows, with good steering and front end feel, decent engine/exhaust sound and sharpish handling that feels well connected to the road. My concern with a 997 (having never driven one) is that it wouldn't feel special or exciting enough as a weekend car, and potentially a bit soft. I'd be interested to hear peoples opinions on those who have them as weekend cars whether those concerns are valid or not? How much difference does PASM make to the driving experience? In an ideal world I'd have 997 GT3 in comfort spec, but that is way over budget. Without a toddler, I'd probably be looking to a Cayman GTS over a 911, but with a need for a 2+2 and £50kish budget, is a 997.2 a good option? I will try and test drive some, but always good to get the opinion of others who have spent time driving them and got to know them properly.

I have not driven one in a while, so will defer to others. I did enjoy it a lot though and think a manual 997.2 is great and would buy one over the cars that followed, but have only limited driving experience of the non GT cars. If it is too soft, then you could always put a decent new suspension on it (might make sense in any case to refresh it) and a more aggressive geo - then it would feel fresh and you can make it as focused as you like. The bucket seats also make a big difference to the driving experience IMO, but not sure how good access to the rear is, even with a foldable version.

I have a manual 997.1 C2 with the optional sports package: -20 mm; no PASM, stiffer springs; 19's; lsd Other than than full leather (was an option on the continent), it basically has no options. Not even GPS! (it has the screen, but no GPS module) The 997.2 differs mainly engine wise, being DFI unlike the old M96 engines. So most of my remarks are valid for the 997.2 too. Quite frankly, it is superb! While being the most basic, vanilla 911, don't mistake it for anything other than a 911. From the very first meter, you realize this is not a bogo hatch. Yes, a Golf R probably is faster in most situations, but driving it, it is just a Golf. Yes, a very fast one and the suspensions probably is really good, but it is a VW Golf. With the 997, you have that sensation of being in a 911, even before you start the engine. The driving position is very 911, as is the cabin. When you look over the bonnet with it's trademark front wings that culminate into the front lights, you have that special feel, even before you start the engine. Starting the engine with the left hand (LHD), is special in itself. It always reminds me, that I'm not starting the Volvo/Mini daily. After turning over, this becomes even more clear. My car may only be the lowly 3.6 without PSE (but currently with Top Gear 200 cats) but what an engine !!!! The boxer 6 has such an iconic engine sound, you can always hear it over the general traffic sound in a city. It doesn't have to shout to be heard, it is an absolutely lovely sound just being driven gently in city traffic. It does so while not annoying anybody around. Of course, it begins to sing past 4'000 rpm! This is where the engine becomes alive and wants for more rpm The 3.6 DFI engine apparently is an absolute peach, with a useful extra extra power and torque over the old one. But they sound a little less good than the manifold injected ones. Compensatory justice, I guess. Recently I have become a father too, and this is where the 911 shines of course. There are several threads on the internet regarding child seats. In short, you are fine until they are grown. A good friend of mine has the opposite spectrum of NA 997: a PDK 997.2 Targa 4S with just about every option. I have driven this car, and while the PDK sure is a superb gearbox and certainly better at changing gear than I ever could be, I preferred my humble, manual C2. Of course his had a lot more power, but it didn't enhance the driving experience. As for the PASM, I'm no fan tbh. Yes the ride is softer in normal setting than mine, but my OH gladly toured in the relatively hard C2 to the SoF on several occasions without complaining once. So it can't be too bad. The PASM on the sport setting feels a little harder than my oem sports suspension. While mine certainly is enough soft for touring, you wouldn't want to drive to the SoF whith the PASM on sport setting. I prefer a simple, single stage setup that is right to a two stage setup where one is very hard and the other is very soft. You find other people who a fan of PASM and you can fit a new, modern PASM controller to bring the early 00's PASM technology to todays standard. But with the 997 being on the verge of becoming a classic car, a old school analogue single stage setup suits the car rather good! They are great cars an imho more than special enough to be a weekend car! While everybody always advocates their own, personal car choice, I trully beliefe that with a 997 less is often more. As I said earlier, the 997 is about to become a classic car. You really feel these are cars from an other era. They are rather small in modern traffic, and while more than fast enough (for me at least) lots of mundane modern cars are way faster. But this becomes irrelevant, just as much as it has become irrelevant with the aircooled stuff. And because they are "special" enough on their own, they don't need to be faster. ETA: I am such a fan of 997's that I started The 997 Appreciation Thread almost 5 years ago. Have a look there, for more 997 experience. Edited by Filibuster on Friday 4th March 09:54

I had one 7? years ago and drove one recently, it felt surprsingly slow but it's still a 911, looks nice and is a nice place to be inside the gts/turbo/gt3 are the ones to have (at least for me)

I had a 2010 C2S PDK Cab that was traded in a few years back 'to soon' for me to fully enjoy, role on a few more years and i now have a 2011 GTS PDK Cab and its great. I'd suggest a GTS is right on the limit of your £50k budget but if can find one they're great road cars, for me, just the right blend and balance? There's the 2 wheel drive 4 wheel drive option too, if its just for fun then and it wont be a daily / used in the winter, etc then I'd go 2 wheel drive. Manual vs PDK is very much a personal choice, the PDK is great though and gives the benefit of a great auto and involvement via the paddles when you're in the mood albeit without the 3rd peddle and stick that others revere so much! A 997.2 C2S will be a fantastic car for the duties you have described and you should get a nice one for under £50K.

great cars,I had a gen 1 and loved it .

I had a 997.2 C2 Manual for 3.5 years up until Sept 20, ran it as a daily for 1.5 years then a 'weekender' for 2 years, about 28,000 miles. It was a lovely car, full of character and I think it's real appeal lies as a fun daily driver. I found that when I had an alternative daily (Volvo S90) I just never used the 997, in base spec its just not exciting enough to want to get up early on a Sunday morning and drive. I was considering some mods for it to liven it up (exhaust upgrade, damper and geo refresh) but in the end I realised that having 2 cars doesn't work for me and I replaced both with an Alfa Giulia Quad. If I were to go the 911 route again, I would either persevere with it as a daily or alternatively stretch to something really special for weekends like a GT3 or a classic Carrera 3.2.

Just posted this summary on 911UK of my experience thus far (2009 997.2 Carrera 2S PDK, PCCB, LSD) It has taken a Fast Road Geo, new drop links, H&R springs and a DSC Sport Controller to get my 997.2 C2S handling sorted to a point where I feel confident to push hard (real hard) Out of the box, PASM was horrendous. In Normal Mode - Floaty front end. In fast corners (90mph plus) the car would feel like the rear wanted to pitch weight forward to the front. Compression Damping was too harsh and Rebound non-existent In Sport Mode - undriveable on UK roads DSC Sport controller was the biggest improvement. Geo helped with turn-in and mid-corner stability. Springs rates help more progressive feel Prior to all this work, my old Golf R (7.5) would have annihilated the Porsche and was more fun to drive, in most scenarios. Now the Porsche is a monster, on very fast dry roads at 10/10ths, no car Ive owned matches the driver experience. It really is something else. Im still learning the nuances of Rear-engine (brake to apex, transition to power). It took a lot of money and effort to arrive here. Standard car falls short in my opinion and was designed for people to arrive in style at the Golf Course / Weekend Retreat. Id say if you like driving your cars (coming from Lotus and Cayman history) prepare to do some work to get where you need, in preparation for the weekend blasts!

I have a manual 997.2 S and it is a very good all-round car out of the box however I do agree with veetwin that there is room for improvement to make the car feel more focused. I've done similar, DSC controller, sharper geo, exhaust, GT3 gearshift, uprated brake pads, lighter wheels/Cup 2 tyres etc. It does everything so well and soaks any abuse I give it on road or track and sounds lovely. Plus I can take the wife and two kids out whenever we wish. What I would say seeing you've had a Lotus is that it will never feel as connected / raw as something like an Exige, which is perhaps what you would want from a weekend car? I now also have an S1 Elise for track days and the feel / connection is off the chart compared to the Porsche, which feels like a comfy saloon car if I swap between the two. Perhaps an S3 Exige V6 would be a better choice for a weekend car so you have the sound/performance but with the rawness / enjoyment the Lotus can give? Some pics:

Thanks all. Mixed views, and sounds like it may need some tweaking to get to the car I'd like. Straight line pace is not that important, I think it would be quick enough, my family estate is very quick in a straight line but the focus for this is having more involvment. It doesn't need to be as extreme as an exige, far from it as it needs to be able to cope with family days out, but I do want it to feel like an event to drive and get me out of bed on a sunday morning. Filibuster said: ETA: I am such a fan of 997's that I started The 997 Appreciation Thread almost 5 years ago. Have a look there, for more 997 experience. Edited by Filibuster on Friday 4th March 09:54 Thanks, a lot of useful information and good to hear you are enjoying the experience! I'll be taking a good look at the 997 Appreciation Thread. kith said: I had a 997.2 C2 Manual for 3.5 years up until Sept 20, ran it as a daily for 1.5 years then a 'weekender' for 2 years, about 28,000 miles. It was a lovely car, full of character and I think it's real appeal lies as a fun daily driver. I found that when I had an alternative daily (Volvo S90) I just never used the 997, in base spec its just not exciting enough to want to get up early on a Sunday morning and drive. I was considering some mods for it to liven it up (exhaust upgrade, damper and geo refresh) but in the end I realised that having 2 cars doesn't work for me and I replaced both with an Alfa Giulia Quad. If I were to go the 911 route again, I would either persevere with it as a daily or alternatively stretch to something really special for weekends like a GT3 or a classic Carrera 3.2. Interesting view point, the 2 car or 1 car does it all choice does play on my mind, but I just feel you compromise too much with 1 car, altough I think an Alfa Giulia Quad is probably one of the best options out there! veetwin said: Just posted this summary on 911UK of my experience thus far (2009 997.2 Carrera 2S PDK, PCCB, LSD) It has taken a Fast Road Geo, new drop links, H&R springs and a DSC Sport Controller to get my 997.2 C2S handling sorted to a point where I feel confident to push hard (real hard) Now the Porsche is a monster, on very fast dry roads at 10/10ths, no car Ive owned matches the driver experience. It really is something else. Im still learning the nuances of Rear-engine (brake to apex, transition to power). It took a lot of money and effort to arrive here. That sounds like the sort of experience I am after. How much roughly to make those changes? I guess cars of this age are probably in need of a refresh anyway, so makes sense to upgrade at the same time to suit personal tastes. Mutton said: I have a manual 997.2 S and it is a very good all-round car out of the box however I do agree with veetwin that there is room for improvement to make the car feel more focused. I've done similar, DSC controller, sharper geo, exhaust, GT3 gearshift, uprated brake pads, lighter wheels/Cup 2 tyres etc. It does everything so well and soaks any abuse I give it on road or track and sounds lovely. Plus I can take the wife and two kids out whenever we wish. What I would say seeing you've had a Lotus is that it will never feel as connected / raw as something like an Exige, which is perhaps what you would want from a weekend car? I now also have an S1 Elise for track days and the feel / connection is off the chart compared to the Porsche, which feels like a comfy saloon car if I swap between the two. Perhaps an S3 Exige V6 would be a better choice for a weekend car so you have the sound/performance but with the rawness / enjoyment the Lotus can give? Some pics: Car looks great, and sounds like some nice mods! I'm not expecting the connection of a Lotus, and while an S3 exige would be nice, it won't do the family days out and feel like I've have very little opportunity to use it!

£350 springs (Amazon) £797 fit springs, new top mounts, drop links and bumpstops + fast road Geo (Copse Automotive) £800 second hand DSC Controller from Pistonheads member (£1100 new IIRC from 9excellence). I’m running custom parameters after my own trial and error, now balanced for comfort [my perception of comfort somewhat different to most of the family ;-) ] and performance) Want to switch the Pirelli’s for PS4S in the future to complete the handling transformation Also considering H&R sway bars next, to dial out that last remaining bit of body-roll Car also has 15mm wheel spacers. After the geo, the camber looked quite severe.

Obligatory 997 pic to tempt you. Cayman GTS was high on my list also. Sadly due to Covid restrictions at the time I was not able to test them both back to back.

Mutton said: I now also have an S1 Elise for track days and the feel / connection is off the chart compared to the Porsche, which feels like a comfy saloon car if I swap between the two. It’s a great combination isn’t it! Snap!

veetwin said: Want to switch the Pirelli’s for PS4S in the future to complete the handling transformation I have PS4S on my second set of wheels and they are a brilliant tyre and will give you all the traction and grip you would ever need on the road. What I would say though is that because the 19" versions do not come in Porsche N ratings the off the shelf versions do have slightly soft sidewalls which add a bit of compliance / give when cornering hard, so you may find they soften the handling slightly rather than sharpen it. I tend to run with my (N rated) Cup 2 tyres for most of the year now for this reason.

Filibuster said: I have a manual 997.1 C2 with the optional sports package: -20 mm; no PASM, stiffer springs; 19's; lsd Other than than full leather (was an option on the continent), it basically has no options. Not even GPS! (it has the screen, but no GPS module) The 997.2 differs mainly engine wise, being DFI unlike the old M96 engines. So most of my remarks are valid for the 997.2 too. Quite frankly, it is superb! While being the most basic, vanilla 911, don't mistake it for anything other than a 911. From the very first meter, you realize this is not a bogo hatch. Yes, a Golf R probably is faster in most situations, but driving it, it is just a Golf. Yes, a very fast one and the suspensions probably is really good, but it is a VW Golf. With the 997, you have that sensation of being in a 911, even before you start the engine. The driving position is very 911, as is the cabin. When you look over the bonnet with it's trademark front wings that culminate into the front lights, you have that special feel, even before you start the engine. Starting the engine with the left hand (LHD), is special in itself. It always reminds me, that I'm not starting the Volvo/Mini daily. After turning over, this becomes even more clear. My car may only be the lowly 3.6 without PSE (but currently with Top Gear 200 cats) but what an engine !!!! The boxer 6 has such an iconic engine sound, you can always hear it over the general traffic sound in a city. It doesn't have to shout to be heard, it is an absolutely lovely sound just being driven gently in city traffic. It does so while not annoying anybody around. Of course, it begins to sing past 4'000 rpm! This is where the engine becomes alive and wants for more rpm The 3.6 DFI engine apparently is an absolute peach, with a useful extra extra power and torque over the old one. But they sound a little less good than the manifold injected ones. Compensatory justice, I guess. Recently I have become a father too, and this is where the 911 shines of course. There are several threads on the internet regarding child seats. In short, you are fine until they are grown. A good friend of mine has the opposite spectrum of NA 997: a PDK 997.2 Targa 4S with just about every option. I have driven this car, and while the PDK sure is a superb gearbox and certainly better at changing gear than I ever could be, I preferred my humble, manual C2. Of course his had a lot more power, but it didn't enhance the driving experience. As for the PASM, I'm no fan tbh. Yes the ride is softer in normal setting than mine, but my OH gladly toured in the relatively hard C2 to the SoF on several occasions without complaining once. So it can't be too bad. The PASM on the sport setting feels a little harder than my oem sports suspension. While mine certainly is enough soft for touring, you wouldn't want to drive to the SoF whith the PASM on sport setting. I prefer a simple, single stage setup that is right to a two stage setup where one is very hard and the other is very soft. You find other people who a fan of PASM and you can fit a new, modern PASM controller to bring the early 00's PASM technology to todays standard. But with the 997 being on the verge of becoming a classic car, a old school analogue single stage setup suits the car rather good! They are great cars an imho more than special enough to be a weekend car! While everybody always advocates their own, personal car choice, I trully beliefe that with a 997 less is often more. As I said earlier, the 997 is about to become a classic car. You really feel these are cars from an other era. They are rather small in modern traffic, and while more than fast enough (for me at least) lots of mundane modern cars are way faster. But this becomes irrelevant, just as much as it has become irrelevant with the aircooled stuff. And because they are "special" enough on their own, they don't need to be faster. ETA: I am such a fan of 997's that I started The 997 Appreciation Thread almost 5 years ago. Have a look there, for more 997 experience. Edited by Filibuster on Friday 4th March 09:54 I can only echo all of Filbusters positive comments on the 997.2 base Carrera. Picked one up in manual recently and what a lovely car it it to drive. Revs freely and loves being rev’d. Old school enough and brilliant handling on standard suspension.