997GTS Manual to Ferrari FF to 991.2GT3 ? Am I mad? - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Got a very significant birthday in a couple of weeks and thinking of treating myself. I've had the GTS for 10 years and have loved every minute. The market for them seems crazy atm with the recent Hexagon car up at £83k and OPCs asking >£70k for PDKs. I really want a 991.2 GT3 manual, but can't bring myself to pay a £30k+ premium for a 4 year old car. So, I keep reading that the Ferrari FF is going to be the next Ferrari to increase in price and they do look pretty special and an awful lot of car for the money. My man maths says sell the 997 (How to achieve best price though? Via CC, SOR, outright sale?), bank the profit into a FF for a couple of years while it appreciates and then move to 991 GT3 when they suffer a market correction. Great in principle - thoughts? An yone who'se had an FF got any thoughts on how they drive, running costs, things to look out for? All views welcome!

What’s the spec on the GTS and how much are you hoping to get for it ?

There are no guarantees whatsoever the FF will increase in value and equally no guarantees the 991.2 GT3 will drop especially having regard to the huge price increase and lukewarm reception to the 992 GT3.

I’ve got a manual 997 GTS and a manual 991.2 GT3….always loved the idea of a V12 Ferrari but nor been there yet. Only driven one V12 Ferrari which was an 812 GTS…wasn’t a great test drive to be honest as it was at an event and mostly on a dual carriageway. Re FF I just don’t think you should buy a relatively modern V12 Ferrari as the “next one to appreciate”…they are generally hat depreciate but yes the world is different right now. It might hold value/appreciate in the short term but I think once production gets back to normal levels I wouldn’t want to own one as an asset I thought my money was safe in. 18 months ago Ferrari resduals were in a bad way across the board with lots of unhappy customers and lots of cars for sale at dealers. Re GTS vs GT3 the biggest single difference is the engine it totally dominates the experience in the GT3 and is on a totally different level to the engine in the GTS. GTS is a great road car though and has an awful lot of positives going for it.

If your GTS is a manual you are quids in. If with buckets too, you have entered the twilight zone where any price is possible. If a PDK, and subject to the full spec, you'll have to take a dive against what is currently on sale, as PDK GTS's hang around for months, if not years. Some have been for sale for two years since when I was first looking. So you may have to go WBAC or OPC for selling it, which is no bad thing. The 997 GTS is revered to be better than the Turbo and GTs of its model range, its the ultimate sweet spot. You might miss it, but life it too short to drive the same car forever. Good luck with the sale and Ferrari purchase.

Don't the 4 seater Ferraris generally hold their value less than the 2 seaters? How about a 458 if you want your money to be reasonably safe + potential appreciation, or are you set on that V12 engine...

julian987R said: If your GTS is a manual you are quids in. If with buckets too, you have entered the twilight zone where any price is possible. If a PDK, and subject to the full spec, you'll have to take a dive against what is currently on sale, as PDK GTS's hang around for months, if not years. Some have been for sale for two years since when I was first looking. So you may have to go WBAC or OPC for selling it, which is no bad thing. The 997 GTS is revered to be better than the Turbo and GTs of its model range, its the ultimate sweet spot. You might miss it, but life it too short to drive the same car forever. Good luck with the sale and Ferrari purchase. 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3.

g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it.

julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. You're joking, right !

..come on, stop getting baited... Back on track... To OP, I'd say go for it, any reason not too? You've had the GTS for 10years, the hunt for something else must be irresistable. Get out now, sell to a dealer if you can get a good deal, then spend the next few months in pure heaven tracking down your next toy with the lolly to splash...

julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. Take mine then….it’s not…

MrVert said: julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. Take mine then….it’s not… pretty sure it was a DriveTribe article, but perhaps on reflection an overstatement.

If your 997GTs is manual etc sell privately you will have no problems and will do better than selling to a dealer! If PDK ?? I personally prefer to buy privately than from a dealer!

julian987R said: MrVert said: julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. Take mine then….it’s not… pretty sure it was a DriveTribe article, but perhaps on reflection an overstatement. I’ve not driven a 997 GT3 but I can see on country/B road a GTS and a GT3 would both be great cars….some people don’t like cars with a firm/stiff chassis so for them the GTS might be the better car. One thing is for sure for me….cars are more fun when they are stretched and lets say near the limit of their performance.

Cheib said: julian987R said: MrVert said: julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. Take mine then….it’s not… pretty sure it was a DriveTribe article, but perhaps on reflection an overstatement. I’ve not driven a 997 GT3 but I can see on country/B road a GTS and a GT3 would both be great cars….some people don’t like cars with a firm/stiff chassis so for them the GTS might be the better car. One thing is for sure for me….cars are more fun when they are stretched and lets say near the limit of their performance. I definitely get that sentiment and agree more than I thought I initially would… As I get older, the ‘less is more’ mantra is growing stronger in me…probably why I still have an S1 Elise… I would still rate a 997 GT3 above a GTS though…must be a weight thing….I do like a light car

julian987R said: pretty sure it was a DriveTribe article, but perhaps on reflection an overstatement. LOL. I’d love to see this article which is probably just written by some guy who owns a GTS (if it exists). Hardly a reputable source. I’ll await a proper magazine review (which you won’t find) or someone who has owned both What next? A BMW 330 is better than an M3? Honestly there is some rubbish spouted by certain individuals on PH. Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 19th October 11:15

My 2p worth, I would discount any residuals or investment speak when making this decision as this is all w ky glass ball thinking. Just buy an F12 and be done with it.

MrVert said: Cheib said: julian987R said: MrVert said: julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. Take mine then….it’s not… pretty sure it was a DriveTribe article, but perhaps on reflection an overstatement. I’ve not driven a 997 GT3 but I can see on country/B road a GTS and a GT3 would both be great cars….some people don’t like cars with a firm/stiff chassis so for them the GTS might be the better car. One thing is for sure for me….cars are more fun when they are stretched and lets say near the limit of their performance. I definitely get that sentiment and agree more than I thought I initially would… As I get older, the ‘less is more’ mantra is growing stronger in me…probably why I still have an S1 Elise… I would still rate a 997 GT3 above a GTS though…must be a weight thing….I do like a light car Totally agree on weight. Bought an early 70’s 911 a year ago….it is the car I would choose to drive on country roads at 50 to 60 mph over any other,

FF makes no financial sense as a stepping stone to soften the move to the GT3 Do it anyway to get the maximum variety

Thanks for all the replies so far. Not too too far further forward in my thinking! I get it's not an economic/investment decision, and I guess 1 dealer margin is a softer hit than 2 (unless both FF and GT3 markets move in my favour) Just been out for a B road blast in the GTS (manuel btw), and come back home thinking "how much more than that will I ever need". Hmm - this notion might just be itchy feet and maybe I should just get out and drive the GTS more.

Get out there and drive a few (not just one) examples of the car you're thinking about purchasing, that'll give you time to become accustomed and acclimatise to them. I suspect it'll go one of two ways once you've driven them : Their "faults" will become increasingly obvious (as will their positives) and the novelty/honeymoon period factor will lessen to a degree that the decision making process is easier. Ultimately you'll either see just what a brilliant all rounder your current 997 GTS is, and that it provides all the performance you need on our increasingly crowded roads, and you can take/park it anywhere without being the centre of attention or indeed be concerned it'll get damaged or worse still vandalised. Or you'll be totally smitten by the whole Ferrari "thing". My guess is that once you've got past the novelty of owning the FF, you'll wish you'd not sold the GTS, and your regret will only increase further when you try and replace it ... And for what it's worth, as an all rounder/the least compromised 997, I think the GTS probably does trump the 997 GT3 in many ways. Less engaging, tactile and visceral it may be, but those benefits come at a price, both financially and from a usability and refinement perspective. All IMO

I think. Slippy’s advice is bang on about getting out in the cars to experience them….although I think it’s very hard to drive cars like this that are up for sale at dealers. If you’re anywhere near Buckinghamshire and want a ride in a 991.2 GT3 OP drop me a PM.

Cheib said: I think. Slippy’s advice is bang on about getting out in the cars to experience them….although I think it’s very hard to drive cars like this that are up for sale at dealers. If you’re anywhere near Buckinghamshire and want a ride in a 991.2 GT3 OP drop me a PM. Many thanks for the offer - long way from Edinburgh unfortunately!

Having gone down the 991.2 GT3 route a 997 manual with bucket seats makes for a better road car. Driving a 991.2 GT3 at pedestrian speeds is frustrating as it wants to be driven fast and you'll be constantly speeding to get the enjoyment. I do think at slower speeds it does feels heavy which is why I much prefer the 718 Spyder for B road blasts. However, if you want a manual GT3 - Ashgoods have a non-tracked one which is 6k over list.

Batster3 said: Ashgoods have a non-tracked one which is 6k over list. £15k over list if it has steels.

av185 said: Batster3 said: Ashgoods have a non-tracked one which is 6k over list. £15k over list if it has steels. Nope it was 133k new - look at the extra's.

julian987R said: MrVert said: julian987R said: g7jhp said: 997 GTS better than a 997 GT3. Yep, don't just take my word for it. Take mine then….it’s not… pretty sure it was a DriveTribe article, but perhaps on reflection an overstatement. He makes an authoritative-sounding statement but it’s just something he read somewhere. Jeez.

Maxym said: He makes an authoritative-sounding statement but it’s just something he read somewhere. Jeez. Batster3, MrVert and Batster3 came round to that way of thinking, not conclusively so, but reconsidered the point made.

anonymous said: [redacted] Ah I mean Cheib MrVert and Batster3, thanks for pointing that out.

anonymous said: [redacted] Errr…no

Batster3 said: Having gone down the 991.2 GT3 route a 997 manual with bucket seats makes for a better road car. Driving a 991.2 GT3 at pedestrian speeds is frustrating as it wants to be driven fast and you'll be constantly speeding to get the enjoyment. I do think at slower speeds it does feels heavy which is why I much prefer the 718 Spyder for B road blasts. However, if you want a manual GT3 - Ashgoods have a non-tracked one which is 6k over list. I liken driving the GT3 on a country road to a speed boat at 30 mph or so it does as you say feel heavy….however once it’s up in the 50 to 60 mph area it comes alive. Interestingly the 718 Spyder is around the same weight as the 991.2 GT3 at 1400 kg….not driven one but my wife had a 718 Boxster which certainly felt like a lighter car….I guess it is the GT3’s suspension set up that makes it feel heavier.

I would not buy the FF with a view that it will appreciate. It might not depreciate too much going forward (by FF standards), but I doubt it highly will appreciate. I don't think I would buy one as a short-term ownership proposition if I had one eye on depreciation - I have not tried to, but always suspected to sell an older (but not really old/vintage) 4-seater Ferrari will be difficult as not that many people buy them as weekend cars and the people who drive them as dailies tend to buy newer ones. In my view (pretty much) all cars will start depreciating again at some point in the next couple of years - the current bubble is not sustainable in the long run - so the lower your basis the better imo [not that I in any way act accordingly unfortunately]. As a driving proposition the FF is a great daily and feels special every time you get in it. It is big and relatively heavy though (at least compared to a 911), so it is a very different driving experience. It excels on the autobahn and is good fun on country roads as long as the turns are not too tight / roads not too narrow. I drove mine in Cinque Terre recently and it has a few more scratches on the bumper and on the rims now, it was good fun and the car did well, but just not enough space for it on those roads - if you are nervous about scratching your car, then it is not the vehicle for the tighter UK country roads. The engine is imo more special than anything Porsche currently produces (or has ever put in a 911 for that matter).

MDL111 said: I would not buy the FF with a view that it will appreciate. It might not depreciate too much going forward (by FF standards), but I doubt it highly will appreciate. I don't think I would buy one as a short-term ownership proposition if I had one eye on depreciation - I have not tried to, but always suspected to sell an older (but not really old/vintage) 4-seater Ferrari will be difficult as not that many people buy them as weekend cars and the people who drive them as dailies tend to buy newer ones. In my view (pretty much) all cars will start depreciating again at some point in the next couple of years - the current bubble is not sustainable in the long run - so the lower your basis the better imo [not that I in any way act accordingly unfortunately]. As a driving proposition the FF is a great daily and feels special every time you get in it. It is big and relatively heavy though (at least compared to a 911), so it is a very different driving experience. It excels on the autobahn and is good fun on country roads as long as the turns are not too tight / roads not too narrow. I drove mine in Cinque Terre recently and it has a few more scratches on the bumper and on the rims now, it was good fun and the car did well, but just not enough space for it on those roads - if you are nervous about scratching your car, then it is not the vehicle for the tighter UK country roads. The engine is imo more special than anything Porsche currently produces (or has ever put in a 911 for that matter) . Morning M, I hope you're well ? At a starting price of £225K when the FF was new, I'd hope it was !!

Batster3 said: av185 said: Batster3 said: Ashgoods have a non-tracked one which is 6k over list. £15k over list if it has steels. Nope it was 133k new - look at the extra's. Nope you are wrong. Same spec as mine except mine has ceramics which are a £6500 option. This Ashgood car has steel brakes. My car was £130500 new. So £16k premium. Also how do you know the car hasn't been tracked especially as its 3 owners...?

MDL111 said: I would not buy the FF with a view that it will appreciate. It might not depreciate too much going forward (by FF standards), but I doubt it highly will appreciate. I don't think I would buy one as a short-term ownership proposition if I had one eye on depreciation - I have not tried to, but always suspected to sell an older (but not really old/vintage) 4-seater Ferrari will be difficult as not that many people buy them as weekend cars and the people who drive them as dailies tend to buy newer ones. I think your last point is a very good one. Same for 911’s with Tip or PDK gearboxes….as these cars get older they become weekend cars where manual gearboxes tend to be more popular. Also I know it is ridiculous when talking about a car like an FF but dated interior tech becomes an issue. People want Car Play on cars that are daily’s or long distance cars.

First time I’ve actually come across a plan to trade-up cars in a similar way one does with houses - the assumption of appreciation being the backbone of the idea. Certainly a sign of the bizarre times we live in. I don’t have anything constructive to say, except to ask the question; don’t 4 seat, front-engined Ferraris depreciate quite severely? The last 15 months is an outlier; everything is up, but haven’t 550/575/599/612 generally suffered significantly higher depreciation than the V8s, historically? Don’t get me wrong - it’s not a judgement on the car. I would absolutely love one, but based on the past, it has actually been an achievable possibility because of this.

I'd think a manual 550 would be a safer bet than a FF. Further down the curve, still reasonably priced, lovely looking car. But if you ultimately want a 991.2 GT3 I'd get out of the 997 GTS now and wait to see if prices dip in the New Year. Then buy a 991.2 GT3.

g7jhp said: I'd think a manual 550 would be a safer bet than a FF. Further down the curve, still reasonably priced, lovely looking car. But if you ultimately want a 991.2 GT3 I'd get out of the 997 GTS now and wait to see if prices dip in the New Year. Then buy a 991.2 GT3. Starting to think this might be the way to go......what's the view on CC vs SOR vs sale to trade? Also really hard to get a sensible estimate of value. Delta between now sold Hexagon car and current Ashgoods is £20k!! OPCs want £73k for PDKs.....

Slippydiff said: MDL111 said: I would not buy the FF with a view that it will appreciate. It might not depreciate too much going forward (by FF standards), but I doubt it highly will appreciate. I don't think I would buy one as a short-term ownership proposition if I had one eye on depreciation - I have not tried to, but always suspected to sell an older (but not really old/vintage) 4-seater Ferrari will be difficult as not that many people buy them as weekend cars and the people who drive them as dailies tend to buy newer ones. In my view (pretty much) all cars will start depreciating again at some point in the next couple of years - the current bubble is not sustainable in the long run - so the lower your basis the better imo [not that I in any way act accordingly unfortunately]. As a driving proposition the FF is a great daily and feels special every time you get in it. It is big and relatively heavy though (at least compared to a 911), so it is a very different driving experience. It excels on the autobahn and is good fun on country roads as long as the turns are not too tight / roads not too narrow. I drove mine in Cinque Terre recently and it has a few more scratches on the bumper and on the rims now, it was good fun and the car did well, but just not enough space for it on those roads - if you are nervous about scratching your car, then it is not the vehicle for the tighter UK country roads. The engine is imo more special than anything Porsche currently produces (or has ever put in a 911 for that matter) . Morning M, I hope you're well ? At a starting price of £225K when the FF was new, I'd hope it was !! all well thank you / I hope you as well. Summer is now over, FF has the winter tyres on and the Porsches are hibernating. fair point that it should be. The FF is not perfect, but it is pretty much my perfect long distance / all year car. On a couple recent road trips, I let other guys drive the "more engaging" [and much harder work/noisier] cars while I listened to the V12 (or the radio) with the aircon on - clearly getting old

550 is a good idea - I love those cars. I think a 550 with new suspension components and a fast road (less straight line/autobahn) set up, could be very close to the perfect car. Also a lot less complicated than the FF tech / a lot fewer expensive things that can go wrong.

GTSjohn said: g7jhp said: I'd think a manual 550 would be a safer bet than a FF. Further down the curve, still reasonably priced, lovely looking car. But if you ultimately want a 991.2 GT3 I'd get out of the 997 GTS now and wait to see if prices dip in the New Year. Then buy a 991.2 GT3. Starting to think this might be the way to go......what's the view on CC vs SOR vs sale to trade? Also really hard to get a sensible estimate of value. Delta between now sold Hexagon car and current Ashgoods is £20k!! OPCs want £73k for PDKs..... I think the right number begins with a 7 for a manual….obv mileage dependent. Ignore OPC’s. I’d ask RPM, JZM or 911 Virgin what they would put car up for/SoR fee. Or if you want to sell outright someone like Paragon.

Put it up for sale on here got nothing to loose it’s free as member, start high ,gauge the market and you will be at least £5k better off than SOR etc! What cars are up at dealers for at what they sell for is another matter! Spec.?

Cheib said: GTSjohn said: g7jhp said: I'd think a manual 550 would be a safer bet than a FF. Further down the curve, still reasonably priced, lovely looking car. But if you ultimately want a 991.2 GT3 I'd get out of the 997 GTS now and wait to see if prices dip in the New Year. Then buy a 991.2 GT3. Starting to think this might be the way to go......what's the view on CC vs SOR vs sale to trade? Also really hard to get a sensible estimate of value. Delta between now sold Hexagon car and current Ashgoods is £20k!! OPCs want £73k for PDKs..... I think the right number begins with a 7 for a manual….obv mileage dependent. Ignore OPC’s. I’d ask RPM, JZM or 911 Virgin what they would put car up for/SoR fee. Or if you want to sell outright someone like Paragon. The blue 997 GTS manual at Hexagon was up for £83k and Virgin 911 sold one for late £70's. Personally I'd just sell late £70's as a private sale on here as a manual 997 GTS is in demand and won't hand around for long. Sure it'll sell quite quickly.

GTSjohn said: Thanks for all the replies so far. Not too too far further forward in my thinking! I get it's not an economic/investment decision, and I guess 1 dealer margin is a softer hit than 2 (unless both FF and GT3 markets move in my favour) Just been out for a B road blast in the GTS (manuel btw), and come back home thinking "how much more than that will I ever need". Hmm - this notion might just be itchy feet and maybe I should just get out and drive the GTS more. What colour is it may I ask and does it have bucket seats? any more spec info or pics you can share please

julian987R said: What colour is it may I ask and does it have bucket seats? any more spec info or pics you can share please White, 18 ways with memory, Seat heating, BOSE, Chrono, Rear wiper, Updated/extended NAV & PCM, Rear seats, Aluminium fuel cap, 19" Spyders in black

GTSjohn said: julian987R said: What colour is it may I ask and does it have bucket seats? any more spec info or pics you can share please White, 18 ways with memory, Seat heating, BOSE, Chrono, Rear wiper, Updated/extended NAV & PCM, Rear seats, Aluminium fuel cap, 19" Spyders in black Thanks John, That looks lovely. Great setting and great it has the rear wiper. A GTS without a rear wiper is simply not a GTS in my opinion.

“A GTS without a rear wiper is simply not a GTS ..... “ Oh my Julian your opinions are hilarious & ridiculous in the same sentence.

julian987R said: GTSjohn said: julian987R said: What colour is it may I ask and does it have bucket seats? any more spec info or pics you can share please White, 18 ways with memory, Seat heating, BOSE, Chrono, Rear wiper, Updated/extended NAV & PCM, Rear seats, Aluminium fuel cap, 19" Spyders in black Thanks John, That looks lovely. Great setting and great it has the rear wiper. A GTS without a rear wiper is simply not a GTS in my opinion.

julian987R said: Thanks John, That looks lovely. Great setting and great it has the rear wiper. A GTS without a rear wiper is simply not a GTS in my opinion. Again and again…

LemonTart said: “A GTS without a rear wiper is simply not a GTS ..... “ Oh my Julian your opinions are hilarious & ridiculous in the same sentence. I've heard.... No to a Cab. No to PDK. No to leather, needs Alcantara. No with centre lock wheels. No, not without buckets. No to certain colours. But I've never considered a wiper a must have on a 997 GTS.

Looks like my car's up £5k since I started this thread......................!! https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12395208 And I thought the blue one they had was expensive......

GTSjohn said: Looks like my car's up £5k since I started this thread......................!! https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12395208 And I thought the blue one they had was expensive...... That cars been up longer than your thread. Marmite colour, GT3 wannabe and 4wd, so expensive. Unlikely to sell anytime soon unless they get lucky.

Hexagon pricing is always optimistic - often higher than OPCs.

Wiper delete on a GTS means it's no longer a GTS Julian ? https://youtu.be/cXfmfj4z3Zc?t=14

Are we to guess at which part to take note ? I vote for 0:34

guyvert1 said: Are we to guess at which part to take note ? I vote for 0:34 There can only be one response to that ...

g7jhp said: That cars been up longer than your thread. Marmite colour, GT3 wannabe and 4wd, so expensive. Unlikely to sell anytime soon unless they get lucky. Oh absolutely, but they must have got lucky with the blue one that was up at £83k.......................

Koln-RS said: Hexagon pricing is always optimistic - often higher than OPCs. Their cars tend to be nicer than others. They had a C2S with 10k miles. Nicest 997 in classifieds but the most expensive of its type at £70k. It sold. In fact the have had an entire fleet of 997s parked up in n london that all look 20% over the market even 24 months ago. All sold. Incredible.

IMI A said: Koln-RS said: Hexagon pricing is always optimistic - often higher than OPCs. Their cars tend to be nicer than others. They had a C2S with 10k miles. Nicest 997 in classifieds but the most expensive of its type at £70k. It sold. In fact the have had an entire fleet of 997s parked up in n london that all look 20% over the market even 24 months ago. All sold. Incredible. Paul Michaels love him or loathe him is an incredible operator…I used to buy (new) BMW’s from Hexagon when they were a BMW dealer…never bought a used car, they were BMW’s most profitable/highest turnover used dealer in the country. He used to buy 3 series convertibles Oct/Dec when no other dealer would buy them because of the three month holding period most dealers operated on (Hexagon being privately owned didn’t have that restriction)…..they were all stored in a warehouse and drip fed into the market the following Spring/Summer for a 20%+ mark up. He’s no fool…stubborn as you like and very,very patient.. As you say they tend to have good cars and know that means if they are patient they can get their money.

Slippydiff said: Wiper delete on a GTS means it's no longer a GTS Julian ? Correct, see, you are catching on now. Best regards

Nice 997GTS come up for sale , one owner manual, low miles for just under £70k, has the essential rear wiper for Julian.

GT4P said: Nice 997GTS come up for sale , one owner manual, low miles for just under £70k, has the essential rear wiper for Julian. looks lovely. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110248... Rear wiper tick, but no tick on buckets. Also looks like the plastic dash, still lovely but not for me.

Mine's a slightly better spec than that but similar miles- a useful barometer on value. Let's see how quickly it sells.......

GTSjohn said: Mine's a slightly better spec than that but similar miles- a useful barometer on value. Let's see how quickly it sells....... Does your have buckets? Just trying to get a sense of the %ratio of 997GTS’s with buckets.

julian987R said: GTSjohn said: Mine's a slightly better spec than that but similar miles- a useful barometer on value. Let's see how quickly it sells....... Does your have buckets? Just trying to get a sense of the %ratio of 997GTS’s with buckets. Less than 10%…if that. What a terrible advert that is….poor photo’s, doesn’t list the spec and lack of clarity of whether it’s OPC or Specialist service history (ambiguity may be deliberate!)

Cheib said: julian987R said: GTSjohn said: Mine's a slightly better spec than that but similar miles- a useful barometer on value. Let's see how quickly it sells....... Does your have buckets? Just trying to get a sense of the %ratio of 997GTS’s with buckets. Less than 10%…if that. What a terrible advert that is….poor photo’s, doesn’t list the spec and lack of clarity of whether it’s OPC or Specialist service history (ambiguity may be deliberate!) Thank you for your reply. 10% huh. So factor in manual and black colour (not Basalt), and rear wiper , it’s probably one or two cars out there, though might not even exist.

Manual with buckets you say…

[quote=julian987R] Thank you for your reply. 10% huh. So factor in manual and black colour (not Basalt), and rear wiper , it’s probably one or two cars out there, though might not even exist. Buy some buckets and take them out when/if you sell the car. They will still retain a good % of the value…you could spend a long time waiting for the perfect spec car when you could be driving it. GTS doesn’t need buckets IMHO, I have them in my GT3 which I do track and I think they really help when you are on track. I saw a PDK Cab GTS with buckets for sale recently which I thought was a very odd spec.

Mine has 18 ways with memory. Personally much better fit than buckets.......I'm tall and quite large, my wife isn't.......I've never seen a GTS with buckets, so estimate of 10% doesn't sound too daft to me.......

julian987R said: looks lovely. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110248... Rear wiper tick, but no tick on buckets. Also looks like the plastic dash, still lovely but not for me. Sold

akadk said: julian987R said: looks lovely. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110248... Rear wiper tick, but no tick on buckets. Also looks like the plastic dash, still lovely but not for me. Sold I am surprised it lasted that long to be honest.

Swine Enthusiast said: My 2p worth, I would discount any residuals or investment speak when making this decision as this is all w ky glass ball thinking. Just buy an F12 and be done with it. Thats where i’m at currently, *need* to add a V12 to the garage rather than replace, the FF is too strange looking for me and the F12 seems to get reviews that suggest it moved things along a fair bit, the twitchy / nervous turn in seems to be driver sensitive from what i can tell, yet to test mind. Other option is the Vanquish or Vantage S V12 in open top form, the latter possible a manual, Eliminated the AV but an open top Murci is still an option as they seem reasonably reliable. Interested in more F12 feedback..

LeroyLoser said: Swine Enthusiast said: My 2p worth, I would discount any residuals or investment speak when making this decision as this is all w ky glass ball thinking. Just buy an F12 and be done with it. Thats where i’m at currently, *need* to add a V12 to the garage rather than replace, the FF is too strange looking for me and the F12 seems to get reviews that suggest it moved things along a fair bit, the twitchy / nervous turn in seems to be driver sensitive from what i can tell, yet to test mind. Other option is the Vanquish or Vantage S V12 in open top form, the latter possible a manual, Eliminated the AV but an open top Murci is still an option as they seem reasonably reliable. Interested in more F12 feedback.. F12 and 997 GTS can’t be compared as an event so I would definitely get that F12 box ticked. I really like them, never owned a Ferrari of any sort but the V12’s are the ones I lust after.

What’s this worth then?

Probably worthless according to PH sages as does not have sport chrono! A plus point to most who hate the eye sore.

Cheib said: LeroyLoser said: Swine Enthusiast said: My 2p worth, I would discount any residuals or investment speak when making this decision as this is all w ky glass ball thinking. Just buy an F12 and be done with it. Thats where i’m at currently, *need* to add a V12 to the garage rather than replace, the FF is too strange looking for me and the F12 seems to get reviews that suggest it moved things along a fair bit, the twitchy / nervous turn in seems to be driver sensitive from what i can tell, yet to test mind. Other option is the Vanquish or Vantage S V12 in open top form, the latter possible a manual, Eliminated the AV but an open top Murci is still an option as they seem reasonably reliable. Interested in more F12 feedback.. F12 and 997 GTS can’t be compared as an event so I would definitely get that F12 box ticked. I really like them, never owned a Ferrari of any sort but the V12’s are the ones I lust after. Sorry, confusing, me posting this in the porsche forum.. I’m not in any way suggesting the two are even comparable, i bought AMG GTR instead of the GT3, i’m just wandering which V12 to add after disappointing Aventador test. A V12 open top is hard to ignore vs the F12 though.. not many V12 roadsters..

LeroyLoser said: Sorry, confusing, me posting this in the porsche forum.. I’m not in any way suggesting the two are even comparable, i bought AMG GTR instead of the GT3, i’m just wandering which V12 to add after disappointing Aventador test. A V12 open top is hard to ignore vs the F12 though.. not many V12 roadsters.. I lust after Aston’s as well but have heard the V12 Vantage Roadster feels quite heavy….more of a cruiser with a lovely sound track than a sports car if you are used to say a 911. Depends what floats your boat. I had a drive in an 812 GTS which was a) very short) and b) not on great roads but the control weights/feel and bulk of it did nothing for me and I really,really wanted to like it. May just be that it I didn’t push it enough to find it exciting. People say modern GT3’s need to be really pushed hard to feel exciting but I think they feel a lot more exciting at 50 mph that a V12 Ferrari or Aston would.

Cheib said: LeroyLoser said: Sorry, confusing, me posting this in the porsche forum.. I’m not in any way suggesting the two are even comparable, i bought AMG GTR instead of the GT3, i’m just wandering which V12 to add after disappointing Aventador test. A V12 open top is hard to ignore vs the F12 though.. not many V12 roadsters.. I lust after Aston’s as well but have heard the V12 Vantage Roadster feels quite heavy….more of a cruiser with a lovely sound track than a sports car if you are used to say a 911. Depends what floats your boat. I had a drive in an 812 GTS which was a) very short) and b) not on great roads but the control weights/feel and bulk of it did nothing for me and I really,really wanted to like it. May just be that it I didn’t push it enough to find it exciting. People say modern GT3’s need to be really pushed hard to feel exciting but I think they feel a lot more exciting at 50 mph that a V12 Ferrari or Aston would. I’ve never got on with 911s tbh, the weight around the rear just feels wrong vs the front, they always feel like the front is bouncing around, ive tried a few over the years and a 2017 GT3 and it still felt wrong, no denying their performance on track but the GTR is as quick, tackles it in a different way for sure but that way i prefer, like you say, what floats your boat, so i think (yet to try) an Aston might feel ok to me, probably the F12 to, TVRs were also an acquired taste when it came to handling but i got on ok with a well set up one. A big V12 over the front is always going to hamper things for outright performance but I have other cars for that. After the Aventador test I know I want the V12 experience & theatre, just in a more amiable package, the F12 or Aston would be that I think but the Aston is better looking imo, plus its open top, also you wouldnt get sneered at so much (not a huge deal for me mind) which means leaving it parked somewhere is easier on the worry side of things. I’ll get my bum in the seat of a Vanquish S Volante over the coming weeks and see, like you said, i think the manual vantage might be a little too old school for me, the Vanquish has the ZF 8sp & I had this in a jag not so long ago and it was very good, a vantage S manual is probably the better investment and 50k cheaper but i dont want that to steer my choice really.

LeroyLoser said: I’ve never got on with 911s tbh, the weight around the rear just feels wrong vs the front, they always feel like the front is bouncing around, ive tried a few over the years and a 2017 GT3 and it still felt wrong, no denying their performance on track but the GTR is as quick, tackles it in a different way for sure but that way i prefer, like you say, what floats your boat, so i think (yet to try) an Aston might feel ok to me, probably the F12 to, TVRs were also an acquired taste when it came to handling but i got on ok with a well set up one. A big V12 over the front is always going to hamper things for outright performance but I have other cars for that. After the Aventador test I know I want the V12 experience & theatre, just in a more amiable package, the F12 or Aston would be that I think but the Aston is better looking imo, plus its open top, also you wouldnt get sneered at so much (not a huge deal for me mind) which means leaving it parked somewhere is easier on the worry side of things. I’ll get my bum in the seat of a Vanquish S Volante over the coming weeks and see, like you said, i think the manual vantage might be a little too old school for me, the Vanquish has the ZF 8sp & I had this in a jag not so long ago and it was very good, a vantage S manual is probably the better investment and 50k cheaper but i dont want that to steer my choice really. Try and get a test drive in an 812 Superfast in an optimum lightweight spec and I guarantee you'll love it. The people who bought them new and/or blind who didn't get on with them and sold out were not smooth enough in their inputs. It drives in a much sportier fashion compared to the much heavier and less rigid 812GTS which with the comfy seats, lift JBL etc weighs 200KG more than a lighter optioned 812SF. The engine actually sits middle-front behind the front axle and feels a much lighter car than it ought to.

akadk said: What’s this worth then? Circa £80k