N0 tyres - any favourites? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I need to replace all 4 on my Boxster, currently on p-zeros, what the current faves? Pilot sports? P-zeros? other?

Complete no brainer for me - Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss. The best all-round tyre out there if they come N-rated in your sizes?

I'm on PS4S now. Both Pirelli (PZeros) and Goodyear (F1 A2) have paid out for my previous, defective, tyres. 981 with 20" rims.

Twinfan said: Complete no brainer for me - Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss. The best all-round tyre out there if they come N-rated in your sizes? Agreed. PS4S are better than P0's.

Anything other than P-Zeros will be a huge improvement PS4S is widely loved on here and is a great tyre. But don't discount Goodyear Eagle F1s either..

I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great.

P-Zeros are probably adequate for nice dry summer conditions, but compared to other brands in the wet / cold / year round use they do seem to attract a significant amount of criticism. I've personally aquaplaned all over the motorway with new P-Zeroes which never happened to me in far worse conditions on worn Michelins.

Yep, P-Zeros are OK on a hot sunny dry day. For the other 360 days a year in the UK they feel rock hard and never seem to get up to temperature.

Any judgement of tyres really relies on where they are in their lifecycle - and that doesn’t mean tread depth. I do think a handful of people on here have subscribed to a groundswell of ‘anti-Pirelli’ sentiment, that others have followed, and it isn’t justified. Pirellis always perform quite well in the independent tyre tests. And Porsche, and all the other prestige sports car manufacturers, would not be fitting them as OE unless they were an excellent tyre, suited to their products. Michelin’s do get favourable PR here, although I’ve had good and not so good experiences. I do have the 4S on a BMW, and agree, they are very good choice. But, I also like the Goodyear F1s, for their compliant and quieter ride characteristics, and would happily select these for regular road use.

I have shared elsewhere the photos of my faulty PZeros & F1 A2s, and the admission from Pirelli and Goodyear their tyres were defective, with suitable financial recompense. In the latter case Oponeo denied any likely fault but I had the tyres sent to Goodyear UK and they accepted they were faulty. Excellent customer service from both firms I must add, no arguments at all. I had been an F1 A2 fan for six years prior to my 981's MOT near failure on dangerous tyres. Only by agreeing to have them changed immediately (and gingerly driving to the tyre retailer) did it pass. Strictly unlawful for the MOT testing station but was I going to argue? Perhaps I should have as a failure would have added clout to my claim, but the tyres damned themselves anyhow. Both these brands, and Bridgstone, are now off my shopping list forever.

Only recent experience; part-worn OEM p-zeros on 981 Boxster S. When first driven December to February at sub-5°C, I didn’t trust them and wanted to change them straight away. Now that it’s 5°+, the handling of the Boxster is sublime and close to idiot-proof. I will probably wear the p-zeros out more, now, before replacing. But not going down to the limit as I’m forewarned about their surface water performance.

I purchased a 981CS in September on PZeros in good condition on 20 inch wheels. I got a couple of months driving it before I had to leave for work overseas. It was fairly warm most of the time (rarely sub 10), and in the dry they were great. In the damp, they were also fine; or perhaps even the inherent balance and handling characteristics of the car made it easy with lessened grip, although learning the new (to me) car I was fairly judicious. On one day I was caught in a decent downpour with standing water on the road and it was an eye-opener. I wasn’t going quickly (winding country roads) but on more than one occasion it wanted to do something I’d term ‘adventurous’. It seems a shame to change them out so early in their lifespan, but to me (given wonderful British weather) it just isn’t worth the risk. I suspect I’ll have PS4S put on at the end of summer. They seem to attract a lot of praise for their wet-weather characteristics, and if they’re even better than the PZs in the dry then bonus. A friend has a 981 Boxter which rarely sees the wet, but he has Eagle F1s on there and he said the same as a poster above that they seem best for ride quality and noise. If you’re finding it ‘crashy’ then personally I would try lowering the pressures slightly. I’ve tried it on other cars but not on my Cayman, and a little does go a long way.

Having had GY F1 A2s for 40k miles on the 981 I can confirm I find little difference with the PS4S which replaced them as far as ride quality goes. When I showed both split front GYs to my tyre retailer (he replaced them with the PS4S) he said "...the only way to trouble free tyres is to fit Michelin."

Thanks all - I'll try the Michelin's and see if I notice!

I've got Eagle F1 on the Boxster and they're a good tyre. Fairly firm ride. I've got PS4S on the Corvette and they're good as well. Quite stiff in the sidewall so you feel the bumps just as much as with the previous runflats. Neither are cheap but they're definitely worth the money IMO. I need tyres that work in all weathers so have little interest in the "racier" ones.

I had (old model N0) P-Zeros on my 981 when I bought it, and they were all cracked, so having read some threads on here (and other forums) about contacting Pirelli for replacements, I did exactly that and was surprised when they sent an engineer out to assess them. He conceded the (older) fronts were knackered and offered a new pair. I pointed out that the rears which were a year newer also showed signs of cracking, so he eventually offered me 4 new N1 P-Zeros to be fitted locally, which I thought was a pretty good offer, though I was tempted to refuse and ask for cash instead so I could buy P4Ss. The engineer persuaded me that the new N1 designs were much improved over the N0s and at first they seemed to be, but it was Summer, and so the new tyres weren't really tested in the cold and wet. When it did finally rain I felt the familiar unsettling vagueness in the car's handling which I had felt on the old N0 Pirellis, to the point I thought there must be something wrong with the car's alignment, but I'm actually pretty sure is just the P-Zeros. I've actually had to slow severely down on a wet motorway for fear of aquaplaning, the handling was that frightening! In cold weather they scrub when parking and make a horrible juddering sound which only goes away when the weather warms up. Mentioned this to Porsche Reading last time I had a service and got the old "They all do that sir!". Think I'll run the N1 P-Zeros to the end of this summer and then might have to go for P4Ss as the P-Zeros ruin the 981 for me! I'd be interested to hear if any others have had the same issue on their 981s.

Although Pirelli paid for my Goodyears in full (I refused new free Pirellis), Goodyear only paid for the percentage unworn of the two split F1 A2s. So Goodyear were fair. Pirelli were very fair... perhaps they need to be for PR?

F1025DPP said: Think I'll run the N1 P-Zeros to the end of this summer and then might have to go for P4Ss as the P-Zeros ruin the 981 for me! I'd be interested to hear if any others have had the same issue on their 981s. Changed from P0s to Michelin PS4S's last month. Had no confidence driving the car (981S) in the cold and damp weather. Too many exciting moments!!! My Son bought a Huracan a few months back. That was on P0s. Had a moment around a roundabout with no throttle. (its on Youtube somewhere). The car has PS4Ss now.

I had p zero tyres on both my gen 1 GTS 991s. I live in the south of England, so mild winters are the norm. I just cannot understand some of the opinions around these tyres. I can understand there's a subjective preference for Michelin tyres in terms of ride, feel, etc. But the argument put forward my some that p-zeros are downright dangerous in the wet or cold just wasn't supported by my experience. Other than obvious hazards - standing water, torrential rain and ice - I never had to makes allowances for the type of tyre. Otherwise Sports +, fine with p-zero.

jcosh said: I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great. They are actually quite a good tyre in the dry but I found once they get about 50% worn they lose grip Also not the best in the cold and wet . The mIchelin is just better in every area

My PZeros were the older N0 version and faulty remember. It's possible those liking PZeros are either on the later N1 version or theirs weren't found to be faulty by Pirelli.

My 991.1 S had P Zeros on, which I drove on all winter and thought were great. I’m now giving PS4S a go since they were cheaper and think they’re also great. Edited by le_gazman on Saturday 10th April 15:52

EvoSid said: jcosh said: I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great. They are actually quite a good tyre in the dry but I found once they get about 50% worn they lose grip Also not the best in the cold and wet . The mIchelin is just better in every area I drove mine right down to the tread indicators through sub zero temperatures all winter and thought they were fantastic. Tons of grip, and never suffered from aquaplaning right to the bitter end. I got PS4S fitted just because they were cheap, but otherwise would have went P Zero again. Think there’s a lot of other people just repeating what others have said online. I think they’re a great tyre and Porsche wouldn’t have made them a standard fitment if they only worked in ideal conditions.

I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least. Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad. I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”). Edited by jimbo761 on Monday 12th April 07:49

Hard to generalise with tyres, but never had a problem with Pirellis. Personal preference would be Michelins, or Goodyear F1 Eagles. Subjectively, the GYs are a very nice road tyre.

jimbo761 said: I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least. Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad. I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”). You can fit MPS4 for 18" rims. Still a very good tyre!

le_gazman said: EvoSid said: jcosh said: I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great. They are actually quite a good tyre in the dry but I found once they get about 50% worn they lose grip Also not the best in the cold and wet . The mIchelin is just better in every area I drove mine right down to the tread indicators through sub zero temperatures all winter and thought they were fantastic. Tons of grip, and never suffered from aquaplaning right to the bitter end. I got PS4S fitted just because they were cheap, but otherwise would have went P Zero again. Think there’s a lot of other people just repeating what others have said online. I think they’re a great tyre and Porsche wouldn’t have made them a standard fitment if they only worked in ideal conditions. I cannot comment on the P-Zeros but all I can say is that I have MPS4Ss (or MPS4s, if wheels are <19") on all of my cars for fast road and inclement weather use - 718 GT4, R35 GT-R, 7.5 Golf R and previously my Evo IX MR. I think that they're great tyres and about as good as you will get for a tyre with very good road-speed performance and good wet weather performance. I don't even look anywhere else and likely won't until their replacement comes out. For track use, I use Cup 2 (not tried Cup 2R yet) as you will find that the MPS4S will get hot and go off quite quickly - unless full wet conditions, of course, then I use the MP4S (I haven't got a third set of wheels with Rainsports fitted; though they won't be N0 anyway ...) Edited by Evo9lution on Monday 12th April 13:05

Evo9lution said: jimbo761 said: I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least. Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad. I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”). You can fit MPS4 for 18" rims. Still a very good tyre! Thanks, not sure those are N rated - being a slave to the warranty I think the only N rated Michelins are the PS4S which are only available in 20"s. If the warranty lapses I would certainly consider them or the SuperSports. The F1's are still pretty good though, I've not had any issues with them at all.

jimbo761 said: Evo9lution said: jimbo761 said: I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least. Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad. I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”). You can fit MPS4 for 18" rims. Still a very good tyre! Thanks, not sure those are N rated - being a slave to the warranty I think the only N rated Michelins are the PS4S which are only available in 20"s. If the warranty lapses I would certainly consider them or the SuperSports. The F1's are still pretty good though, I've not had any issues with them at all. As I need 20" tyres, mine are N-rated but I was told that non-N-rated MPS4S wouldn't be an issue for the warranty anyway (same would be true for MPS4 for 18" rims); they're basically the same tyre and how is a tyre going to affect the warranty (especially if they're OEM size) anyway? I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?).

Not had P Zeros on a 911 but they came on my R8. They were under 2 years old from the date stamp and the cracking in the tread grooves was really bad on 2 of them. They still had 6mm left on them and I changed them to MPS4S and the difference on colder damp days was huge. I find the new tyres to be so much more confident inspiring and I am over the moon with them.

I had two sets of P Zeros before changing to PS4S. The PZERO is certainly the more sporty tyre and much more pointy/direct than the PS4S. If you like this aspect don’t expect the PS4S to feel the same, basically the PZERO has a much stiffer sidewall and it’s this that causes the juddering while slow manoeuvring (especially when cold). The problem with the PZERO is in cold/wet conditions it does let go quite suddenly without a great deal of warning. The PS4s is a little softer, the back end feels a bit more mobile, you can actually feel better what the tyre is doing and has a more predictable/gradual loss of grip. In the warm and dry the PZERO limits are probably higher, in the cold/wet the PS4S is much more confidence inspiring and possibly higher limits. Warm and wet probably similar limits but easier to predict the PS4s. All IMO and YMMV. I actually preferred the PZERO in the warm/dry. But overall the Cold/wet weakness makes the PS4S the better tyre. It’s much better here and only slightly worse in warm/dry.

Evo9lution said: As I need 20" tyres, mine are N-rated but I was told that non-N-rated MPS4S wouldn't be an issue for the warranty anyway (same would be true for MPS4 for 18" rims); they're basically the same tyre and how is a tyre going to affect the warranty (especially if they're OEM size) anyway? I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?). There’s an important difference between the manufacturers new car warranty, which is protected by EU law, and still applies (for now?) in the UK and it would indeed by hard to argue that the “wrong” tyres affected other parts of the car. The extended warranty on the other hand is quite different and is a simple contract between you and an insurance company, and by taking it out you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of the warranty. One of those conditions is that all work on the car can only be done by an OPC. Since no OPC will ever fit non N rated tyres, if you have them on your car, you must have had work done by someone else and your warranty is void. That’s what is says in the policy. Don’t like it - you have a choice not to take it out.

“One of those conditions is that all work on the car can only be done by an OPC” This is not one of the conditions of the warranty at all, and never has been IME. It’s just the warranty does not cover any failures if caused by work performed by non-OPC. Having said the above when I had my warranty extended in Feb the OPC Service adviser stated that I had to keep all N rated tyres otherwise claims for such things as Gearbox/Diff might not be covered. So make of that what you will.

Yep, the N rated requirement usually only affects extended warranty renewals in the 111 point check. No n rated tyres no extension.. Are they still doing the check before extending warranties though?

Wollemi said: Evo9lution said: As I need 20" tyres, mine are N-rated but I was told that non-N-rated MPS4S wouldn't be an issue for the warranty anyway (same would be true for MPS4 for 18" rims); they're basically the same tyre and how is a tyre going to affect the warranty (especially if they're OEM size) anyway? I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?). There’s an important difference between the manufacturers new car warranty, which is protected by EU law, and still applies (for now?) in the UK and it would indeed by hard to argue that the “wrong” tyres affected other parts of the car. The extended warranty on the other hand is quite different and is a simple contract between you and an insurance company, and by taking it out you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of the warranty. One of those conditions is that all work on the car can only be done by an OPC. Since no OPC will ever fit non N rated tyres, if you have them on your car, you must have had work done by someone else and your warranty is void. That’s what is says in the policy. Don’t like it - you have a choice not to take it out. Glad I live in Switzerland, as my OPC here confirmed that they would be happy to fit non-N-rated tyres as long as they were suitable (i.e. not ditchfinders) and of the correct size. Regarding warranty in the UK, my understanding is that the law states that the work must be carried out by a VAT-registered company and the parts must be at least equal to the quality of OEM parts - so, a set of AP Racing steel rotors (or OEM rotors, if that was preferred) fitted by a VAT-registered tuner would suffice for a non-PCCB car, theoretically. They may try to argue it but if the above is correct by law, then they may struggle to actually withold payment if it got as far as court.

Evo9lution said: Glad I live in Switzerland, as my OPC here confirmed that they would be happy to fit non-N-rated tyres as long as they were suitable (i.e. not ditchfinders) and of the correct size. Regarding warranty in the UK, my understanding is that the law states that the work must be carried out by a VAT-registered company and the parts must be at least equal to the quality of OEM parts - so, a set of AP Racing steel rotors (or OEM rotors, if that was preferred) fitted by a VAT-registered tuner would suffice for a non-PCCB car, theoretically. They may try to argue it but if the above is correct by law, then they may struggle to actually withold payment if it got as far as court. I think you may be confusing the new car warranty with the extended Porsche warranty. With the 3 year new car warranty you would be ok with a service history that was equal to OEM and carried out by a VAT registered garage. Once you are out of the original used car warranty you are stuck with the contractual terms of the extended warranty. You could try to argue that the terms of the extended warranty were unfair but I would not want to take that chance.

Extended warranty servicing by OPC yes, but not all work has to be done by an OPC. Need new discs and pads? Go to an Indy and have OE parts fitted.

Green1man said: I had two sets of P Zeros before changing to PS4S. The PZERO is certainly the more sporty tyre and much more pointy/direct than the PS4S. If you like this aspect don’t expect the PS4S to feel the same, basically the PZERO has a much stiffer sidewall and it’s this that causes the juddering while slow manoeuvring (especially when cold). The problem with the PZERO is in cold/wet conditions it does let go quite suddenly without a great deal of warning. The PS4s is a little softer, the back end feels a bit more mobile, you can actually feel better what the tyre is doing and has a more predictable/gradual loss of grip. In the warm and dry the PZERO limits are probably higher, in the cold/wet the PS4S is much more confidence inspiring and possibly higher limits. Warm and wet probably similar limits but easier to predict the PS4s. All IMO and YMMV. I actually preferred the PZERO in the warm/dry. But overall the Cold/wet weakness makes the PS4S the better tyre. It’s much better here and only slightly worse in warm/dry. I agree 100%, great post. I run the ps4s at a slightly higher pressure to compensate.