Exhaust Upgrade for a Hotrod

Its not too often I get to post a new thread but here goes.... I'm considering upgrading my exhaust & headers at some point down the line. Backgroud: My hotrod is an 87 911 coupe underneath with a 993 engine (3.6, M64/05).  Currently, I know I have 964 headers & the exhaust is a custom job I've been told. Any good? Who knows.... Anyway, would like to get a bigger pipe, a better sound and that elusive 10% horses upgrade of course...  I'm thinking a monty, dansk or M&K as they seem to have good "2 in 1 out" exhausts and SSI headers seems to be the go. But, I'm worried about buying an off the shelf exhaust as I don't know if it would fit. My assumption is that having squeezed a 993 engine into a 3.2 chassis gives me less room to work with. What do you think? Anyone got experience with this....  Do I need another proper custom job or can I get an off the shelf jobbie? Here's what my butt looks like now. The exhaust seems to only cover half or 2/3 the width. Should be right across to get a good full sound... I've been told.

Good info here. http://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/206449-964-dyno-results-for-exhaust-changes.html

I wouldn't have thought the engine bay size would be much different between the 993 and the 3.2? They are basically the same chassis just with some alterations for the more modern suspension, etc.

There are some good threads (PP, Renn etc) on fitment of exhausts -backwards forwards compatibility etc. often (I believe) the difference been the size of recess or not, at the back of the box. This does take into account slight engine and install differences. rather than been called out for been wishy  washy with prefacing above with I believe as I'd prefer definitive .. you could also talk to mr google

As a first step, ie. not getting into HP improvement, I was just thinking physical space as I'm not quite std, ie. which muffler and/or headers can physically fit in the recess at back & will the tailpipe fit in the cutout I have of the rear valance as I don't have a stock rear bumper & don't want to cut or change the bumper... do I need to take measurements? How do you buy a muffler without some exacting measures to ensure it fits?  Sorry, if this sounds stupid cos this stuff is plug n play & I'm fussing for nought. I'm sure my mechanic knows this stuff and hopefully he'll sort me out here but just trying to see how others have gone about sizing up a muffler (and headers with exchangers) in a non-std chassis/engine space. @MFX , what you say is re-assuring, thanks. I've been looking on PP, Renn, etc.. having trouble finding someone discussing this.... Although upping HP is a biggy too!!

I am only guessing, but you should be able to use any muffler that fits a G series. It is more about what fits under your rear bumper than anything else I would have thought. You can see in these pics of a 3.2 and a 3.6. Both have basically the same engine mount bar on the back, and as such mount up the the same spot in the engine bay wether it is a G series or a 993. I don't think this should be a very difficult situation.

One of the main differences with say SC VS 3.2 are the pre silencer and the crossover pipe fitted to the 3.2. This means a 3.2 exh will fit up to an SC. But not vice versa, due to the recess in the back of the can on the 3.2 not the SC. as for the choice when specifying speak to he manufacturer and tell em what your set up is. Otherwise all the pipe positions and  I'd say side exit are the same, though due to size of pipe may require fettling. same for 2 out either side. Straight through usually tuck under and clear rear valance/bumper or can do on earlier cars . I think your concern about packaging based on the install is not the issue, but rather whether you are retaining mostly stock system adding exh only , or backdating headers etc lets hear that sound clip

if you want guaranteed fit; 1) buy and fit some off the shelf headers (i have some 3.6 fabspeed ones on a shelf here if you need, though they will hang low and need a nip and tuck if you have backdated) 2) buy two $130 magnaflow mufflers 3) get any exhaust shop to make the remaining bits and fit mufflers, thus guaranteeing the system fits your car and it's idiosyncrasies i.e. (without rear valence fitted here)

Bit more custom but result the same - once upon a time this was the ass end of tangent %5BURL= http://s615.photobucket.com/user/micheloaks/media/IMG_2055.jpeg.html]

those are some funky primaries!

well, that looks spectacular!  although I'm 1 outlet not 2. 1) buy and fit some off the shelf headers (i have some 3.6 fabspeed ones on a shelf here if you need, though they will hang low and need a nip and tuck if you have backdated) Q: Off the shelf? Isn't there a performance or track version I should aim for to maximise my HP? I'd be interested to discuss the fabspeed ones you have... How much nipping & tucking are we talking? 2) buy two $130 magnaflow mufflers Probably best to get a custom muffler made to make sure it fits right, etc and connects up to headers etc...

Phil, why not take a drive to your local indy Pcar dude and show him and ask, Most of those workshops have done plenty of hotups over the decades and can probably tell you straight up what to use, what will (probably) fit, what to expect in noise and performance and what cost to fettle and fit - be prepared to add 50% $$$ to what they say

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@sandy468 , you're right.... I'm home this week so I read your entry & jumped straight in my car just now and wizzed over  stuart at nineauto. Really friendly guy, great to talk with. He's helped but also confused me a bit too. He suggested for the headers I get SSI's (3.2 size) even though I have a 3.6. He said it will be ok (not restrictive, in fact should give me more horsies) and true to backdate, sound and look good too. But my reg mechanic and on this forum have commented they'll be too restrictive...less horsies!  Hmmm, nothing like conflicting info. More googling... As for the muffler, could get a custom job done which he can arrange so it all fits and measures up but sound is unknown. Alternately, I could goto Monty as they're here in Melbourne and get them to tailor one of there's (2 in, 1 out) to fit. And I like the sound of monty. This settles the "will it fit" worry.... now its horses! Specifically on upping the HP, he's also got a new thing he's done once before on a 993 (a custom mod by him) which he said made a great improvement on HP ... was he could increase  the std inlet manifold or throttle body (?) from 67mm I think he said to around 80mm,.. might have to suss this one out a bit further with him as its way outa my understanding of what he does to the car to do this... Might call monty tomorrow... Any more votes on SSIs for a 3.6? Have 2 against and now 1 for...

A can of worms Phil! Maybe go with the lowest cost easiest option explained here, sound more important than power gains? ..... I'm sure the 3.6 goes well enough , but as fast as they go is it ever enough?

@Philbee I recommend scart... listen...

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they are a generic muffler, they will fit- your exhaust guy makes all the connecting bits of pipe and such, to make it fit just so. So generic muffler and custom piping I guess haha. My reasoning being no need to spend $2000 on a 911 specific muffler if you can get two generics for $130 apiece and pay your exhaust guy $500 to make it all fit and look pretty! would be worthwhile asking opinion of a good exhaust shop I think. SSI's too restrictive if it's for 3.2.

@clutch-monkey I like the cheapness of your solution and as sandy468 said too, simple & cheap is a good thing... the result is probably same for a fraction of the cost. Will look into the "magnaflow" suggestion more.... thanks. On the SSI's, yes, that's what I've been told, too restrictive for my 3.6 but Stu at Nineauto was a definite "yeah-nah phil, the SSI is fine!" @michel , I just youtubed scart.... sounds great! Hmmm... will check it out!

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these are the fabspeed extractors i have you can see on my car they hang low since there is no bumper that far down compared to 964 for this car i ended up doing the opposite of my suggestion above; keeping the fabspeed muffler and having tuned length extractors made in a flatter profile for $1100. Either method is effective at making something that fits your car better than a bolt-in system from a manufacturer three continents away etc

I would watch out just chucking on a bigger throttle body. Doing something like that is going to mess with your factory tune, so you would want to make sure you retune the ECU for any changes like that.

First exhaust for sound, then ECU tune/chip for HP and calibration of new exhaust

There is a lot of confusion about SSI's. The original SSI's are not optimal for anything over 3.0l. BUT......you can get SSI's with a bigger internal diameter and these work fine for bigger engines. IIRC, there is also a difference between the 3.2 SSI's and the 964 ones, although I think it is just the flanges. The added problem is that SSI is a brand while others do equivalent headers, so the key is to know what size they are, which isn't that simple because some quote external diameter and others quote internal diameter. I hope that is as clear as mud.........

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Yep, I was googling last night and found larger ones on 'autoatlanta' site... says its for a 3.6 engine & seem to be larger diam but I couldn't decipher the specs exactly.  They were pricey though. Other forums, people saying too small, restrictive & referring to the original copies for the 2.7 and mentioning the 3.0 litre limit too. My car is same as your orange one....  and I definitely wouldnt want that look, no offence...

Phil,do you know if the ECU is stock 993? If it is I believe it is pretty fruitless chasing exhaust related HP without some serious nerd fiddling.

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none taken that's why had custom ones made.. Might be the way to go

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I spoke with a certain Peter Starr yesterday and he said SSIs primaries are fine on a 3.6, but he modifies the secondaries for a few different reasons, one of them being they're too small.  There is complexity to this stuff as there are trade off like gas velocity for mid range torque versus restriction for top end power.  Then there is the sound of course, and you also will want heat correct?  So headers won't do the job for you.  I highly doubt the zorst is going to make any difference in power, So really all you're chasing is the sound, and there's nothing wrong with that.  My GT3 probably loses power with the after market exhaust but it makes me feel like I'm faster and makes me happy. My vote is keep the current headers and get someone who knows what rear muffler makes a nice sound and get them to figure the job out and send you the bill.  Or drill holes in what you've got.

Flat headers as clutch-monkey posted, (custom I assume) into single Magnaflow muffler and twin pipe out (also a 993 3.6). And when talking about exhausts... how is there no sound clips yet?

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oh... Cos my plan was to hit 300 with a new header/muffler combo... I expect the ecu is stock, none of the paperwork says anything about that. I thought the ecu stuff was something to do in addition and would add even more. Ok, add that to the list then. Wheel in the nerd! Before I do anything I was planning on dyno-Ing it to get a baseline and find out if the existing setup is holding her back or doing ok at around 270... It actually sounds ok, it just looks a bit ratty at the back. I hear your requests, will try and capture some audio, the dulcet tones of the philbee HotRod! this is definitely an option (& cheaper too) as the 964 headers might be ok even though the connection to the 993 is not correct. Just get a muffler for a good sound, make the rear look a bit nicer and if lucky might gain a horse or 3!

Whipped off the cover & took the h'rod for a cruise around this morning and you know what.....  Geez, it has plenty of firepower for me and sounds sooo good. I flawed it in 2nd at one point which I haven't really done much as brighton residents dont take too kindly to that sort of thing (love that gear!)...Warp speed, captain!  ... and sounded brilliant - what the hell, she's a bewt, mate! So what if the headers aren't an exact match, they've been fitted and they work, they're for a 964 so should  handle my 993, right?  They're such a big ticket item I might leave them for now (@porkchops inspired), save my hard earned spondoolas & just look at a muffler update only as has been suggested... Thanks again,  I've learnt heaps and your support and ideas warm the cockles of me heart.... Btw, I attempted a sound clip in my garage, cold start... didn't go so good and didn't rev it either which in hindsight was lame - the neighbours are too damn close. Will try again maybe down near the park...

http://vid615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/micheloaks/Mobile Uploads/trim.A80F4A2C-0151-413C-9ACD-F9C12AF7A422.mp4

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As per my other post in the "definitive exhaust thread".... I just found out: Visited the doctor today for a muffler check...Cos I have a big 993 engine and the smaller RS rear bumper there's not enough room for a stock muffler! So Monty & M&K are out. Must do a custom jobbie! Might have to get headers too to marry up with the muffler... Hmmm, more Google for now!! So @MFX , you're right, the engine bay is about same but its the bit at the back where the muffler goes up into seems to be the sticking point. Apparently, the 993 compared to 3.2 engine has a cog or 2 that sticks out further...  and with the rs rear bumper, it comes in closer than the stock bumper. So, I lose space from the engine and the bumper, hence the sausage muffler cannot go!!

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Hey @clutch-monkey .. after my visit to my mechanic yesterday he suggested I'd need a custom muffler & maybe a magnaflow muffler or 2 joined up  & with custom bits and then maybe fabspeed headers.... we're talking' your language. Do you still have those fabspeed headers? Are you in melb?

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in Brisbane. I still have them but they do hang low on a non-964 which is why I ended up doing custom. They'd still work but I'd recommend getting some work done to them to tuck them up better.

Just wanna say I'm still brewing over this... If I get a custom muffler made to fit, then why get it tailored to boring old stock headers. Might as well get the better ones like fabspeed or SSI, etc... And get the custom muffler fitted to this. checking out magnflows for a simple muffler.

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SSIs are nice but they are expensive. Do they flow much better than stock headers (have you got 993 or 964?). If I had stock 993 headers I'm not sure I'd go to the cost and bother of swapping them out unless there was compelling evidence it was worth it. I'd reckon all the sound difference will come from a muffler change and from memory I think I've read that stock 993 headers are not too bad. Do some googling before spending extra. PM me if you're considering selling your 993 headers.

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two options- 1) do the muffler part now, can always do extractors later if you want to optimize it further later on; reshaping or modifying the pipes connecting the muffler to the extractors would not be a major job to do down the line (especially if doing custom extractors or fabspeed etc anyway!). 2) do it all, once, and never have to revisit it. but doing muffler first would be a good litmus test to see if you actually like the modifications first haha. i have found the exhaust is easier to modify and fiddle with over time though. whereas on the intake side i'm not touching anything until my EFI/ITB bits are ready to go on!

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this is the big question, I have 964 headers with my 993 engine. how much gain do I get from paying the big bucks for new headers? I have no idea. All the vendors rave how good there's is and so do all the forum posts who have them... It's hard to decipher.  I think the muffler change is a good first step . Sound update definitely from the muffler, agree. but my longer term plan should $$ be available and swapping headers is confirmed to make a diff with a good muffler, is to go the whole hog and then even look at the efi/itb route... Wanna crack 300 hp ! I mean who doesn't, right? thanks mate, good points. Like option 1. And as per 2) it's a good litmus test...!

Am going through the same process at the moment. My mechanic has back to back tested 993 heat exchangers and equal length headers. On his car that isn't running a wide cam the equal length made no difference. If you want heat and don't want to run ITB's and a wide cams the 993 exchangers are best. I just picked up a set from the sates for $750 shipped. He is going to get a custom muffler made for me by a bloke that makes stuff for V8 supercars. Shouldn't cost a stupid amount. Do you have to run a CAT?

Here's another thing I haven't sussed out why yet... I thought seeing I have 90's engine and headers I would hav a 2 in setup but my mechanic says I have 1 in 1 out. Somehow one side wraps around and joins up ... Why? No idea. I thought 1 in was the old way, 2 in was for later models...964/993 and beyond.  2 in seems a better way...each side goes goes straight in at each end of the muffler. Less pipe means less weight, right? Hence my naive thinking of updating my headers too so I get a 2 in setup going to a 1 out look. Edit: Can anyone shed light on this anomaly...? When did 1 in become 2 in ? Or is it not chronological? Is it based on engine size or model?

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hi @jamesb , good info. Thanks. Are you in melb? I'm thinking of contacting some custom exhaust guys, where's your exhaust guy? can anyone recommend a custom exhaust place in melb?

Well.... first attempt: I just got a quote to do a custom muffler.... from a highly recommended dude.  My setup is 1 in, 1 out and the current pipes aren't equal length apparently as one side needs to wrap around to meet the other side but the short side doesn't have the extension to equalise the lengths.....so losing mid-range torque I'm told. He can do a hot dog muffler to go right across, not hang low and manoeuvre around the engine (that's good!)... So, as well as muffler, need the pipes upto the headers to all line up. All s.steel, mandrel bends and tig welds, sounds all good so far. I left the big question till last.... ok, how much? That's 4.5 big ones my good friend. Hello? Are you still there? After picking myself off the floor, I said thanks and then bye. Gotta be a cheaper option.... @jamesb ... He is going to get a custom muffler made for me by a bloke that makes stuff for V8 supercars. Shouldn't cost a stupid amount. <-- Any details I can get?

yeah no, my equal length extractors were about $1000, muffler should not be more than another $1000, still a long way from 4500 haha

Apparently, my 964 headers don't lend themselves to connect to a 2 in muffler... Can anyone show me what 964 headers look like? Tried googling but the interweb is a mess with images of everything but want I'm trying to see.

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Does this 964 heat exchanger image from the PET help.

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this is the stock exhaust and why 964 carrera's have single exhaust outlet (have to cut opening for fabspeed muffler etc). also why it lends itself to a 1 in, 1 out muffler. you'll need extractors at some point, all this playing around is just putting off the inevitable

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awesome mate, thanks. Just the pic I'm looking for, complete with idiot guide numbered legend!! inevitable?, yes.... I think ur right...

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my good friend clutchy, dyu know where I can get a custom muff for abt 1k? I'm still looking.... So attempt 2 coming up.... Going to see p.fitzgerald racing in box hill this weekend. He reckons maybe 2.5 smackos could do it. Still a lot for just a custom muffler but hey I'm gpwilling to check it out.

how much is a monty? surely any 2 in - 2 out muffler would suffice.. pretty sure jack olsen just uses a generic magnaflow unit. same as blitzkonig at the top of the page.

No offense to our mate blitz but I'm not a fan of the half sized muffler look, prefer the full sausage dog muffler. I'm 1 in 1 out and a stock muffler like Monty or dansk apparently doesn't fit cos of my engine, so cneed a custom job.

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you can get them in longer lengths, they are off the shelf. i may ask my exhaust guy if he can replicate the fabspeed muffler if you want?

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thanks @clutch-monkey ...appreciate the offer but I have now decided to take the plunge. Yes, got someone to take a 2nd look last weekend and it's come in a lot cheaper, still a bit  expensive in my book but I'm willing to accept the p-tax defeat.... So, I decided to go. Why, you ask? Cos I just want to get it sorted. Also, I forgot to mention this before... the old muffler is flush up pressed against the rear fiberglass bumper, so it gets hot to,touch every time I drive. No heat shield, no space. Needless to say I hate that. anyway, getting a custom muffler made up, a satin finish with a couple of polished metal straps and a sports cat replacement. 1-200 cell down from 6-800 cell I'm told. With a fat polished outlet, around 70mm. Booked in for surgery this week, pick up next week. Can't wait... And if I can get Flickr to be my new bff I'll attempt a pic upload...

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get it ceramic coated, the insulation quality is better than 2 heat shields

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Be interested in the look, fit, quality, sound, and if that's all good, where you got it done.  Keeps us all updated plz.

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hmmm, ceramic....  sounds good. Does it end up with that light cloudy grey look? option for colours? Is it expensive? well this guy was highly recommended by 2 reputable indy porsche mechanics... so I figure, they know their stuff. Yep, will let you know...

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you could have it done in a blue and white Wedgewood pattern, or just go for black or silver. Not sure on the current price, but whatever it is it's cheap for its effectiveness

Well, all done. Im excited. Due to p-bucket going offline, I've reloaded onto flickr for now... (until they kick me off ) Here's a reminder....  original old muffler look; Old cat (800cell) & new cat (100cell): Old short-arsed crappy muffler with hand painted black dulux paint slapped on and new straight through muffler - its narrow (not a round sausage type) so it can fit behind the engine (993)... with tailpipe compare at the bottom (75mm new) And the result is: Didn't go the ceramic finish, just added a heat shield at the back of the bumper. But was told it could be done later if needed.  And the sound... is freaken awesome may I say.... for you locals [VIC].... making a brief appearance at dakdak coffee coming up and will be at the  SMT in sept. Analysis after one drive home...The start up is a killer... Mid range power has certainly gone up... noticeably, guessing 5, maybe 10 horses (?). Once you start pushing air through it gets out so much quicker. The engine she breathes like a  bewt now, maaate!!  Putting around you don't notice much difference, other than the great grumbling sound at idle. There's no drone at constant normal speeds, which is great. Only gave it some beans in one little spot so far .... not yet sussed out all its new abilities. Downside: There's only one so far.... being a 1 in setup, it has the heat exchanger cross pipe just behind the muffler. Thats the big black thing at back you can see, now exposed cos the old muffler hung down so much more and covered  it up.... not exactly happy with that look. Its a factory (HE) setup but the engine is bigger than normal in this chassis so its kinda...  a bit too fat for the space (that's tech talk). I hope to get an audio up.... [beginner film crew at work here, philbee productions]...

Looking forward to hearing it in person at Dak Dak and the SMT on the 17th

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yeah me too, the weather & being  busy I probably won't get to drive it much before then. Sad but true.

An update: Well, the custom muffler  sounds awesome, gives me more horses and less weight - all good objectives that have been achieved. But because of the limited space back there the thing rattles a bit when it warms up. Rattles, I mean rubs and makes a clanging sound! Dis not good, yah! So, the doctor has inspected and reckons he can move the engine forward (wtf!), put in a new engine bracket/brace ( the old one is bent), new tinware and other bits like a single crank pulley... Which will give me space to have no more rattle and enough space for a normal sized sports muffler.  Booked for surgery next week!!

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Cripes mate - moving the engine!

Wow, what's the cost of this vs a muffler that can fit the current motor position??

I dunno if its physically possible, but if its rattling against something, what about fitting some exhaust heat wrap? For the sake of $50 or so, I'd give it a go.

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You're right, it's not being moved... That was my stupidity kicking in. Dropped it off today, muffler guy will be brought in to inspect his 'work de la rattle'... There may be something loose inside as well as external rubbing on the whatever...! the main gain in space is done by replacing the std 993 pulley (it's a triple pulley) which protrudes out the back quite a bit with a single crank pulley (from Patrick motorsports). To achieve this, I've decided to pull the pin on the air con. Weight gain benefit right there! Then a new engine bracket can replace the bent one in there now. @KG ... A smaller muffler was considered but I'd start losing sound & performance..2 key attributes of a sports muffler. And I want it done right, not with a bent engine brace! Yeah, the parts abt a Kay, labour a bit less. Cha-Ching!

Well, progress todate with 3 days before "Porsches on the pier" at geelong,... A/C has been deleted, new engine bracket installed, new tinware installed, new single crank pulley installed to make more room & muffler removed! All good. Also, getting a window switch replaced, started failing just last week. But the Bad news is... the muffler has gone back to the muffler guy to get tweeked, eg. The outlet needs to be extended to still finish up flush with the rear fender as the whole muffler is moving back. Now... Awaiting to hear back on return delivery and re-install of the muffler..it could take 2 more days or 2weeks!..

It's a shame they didn't get it right the first time.

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Yep, you said it.

Muffler will not be ready this week... ? Out of Geelong 70th.

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I’ll give you $50 to not pick up your phone for a week from Sunday morning, no looking at pictures from geelong! Nothing worse than your pride and joy not being ready for a drive ☹️

Muffler update: Muffler has had to be re-sized (go figure...  I hear you, @hugh ) and expected back this week, to be fitted and ready for this weekend.... Here's hoping. ?

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Ha, that didn’t happen. So, it’s 2 weeks on now & finally got a call. So I’m picking up the h-rod tomorrow. Very excited but anxious too... ?

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Any updates?

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Well, today I got my baby back.... unfortunately I had to drive straight home, lock her up and go to work, so only had 10mins of cruising to hear and feel the car... Previously, with a 3.6 the sound is a bit deep and more V8-like more than it is mechanical and raspy. But now it’s gone up a tone, which I like. On idle it just purrs now, no distracting noises ? ... bliss! @Simonk might like it!  There’s also now space behind the muffler to the engine and I can put my fingers between the rear bumper and the muffler... plenty of space for air to circulate and not melt my rear bumper if I drive long & hard. With the single crank pulley it seems to rev a bit easier too, I think...and the sound when I blip it, me likey!! but handling and performance has changed too... the air con was removed. Stu said (get this folks) nearly 100 kgs of stuff out.  what the...? I didn’t realise there was so much weight to be gained. Would have done this sooner.  The car feels noticeably different! A good different. I’ll need to drive more to really feel this. With this beast out I can look at a centre console delete and move the passenger footrest back. Next project in the wings!! Got home, engine warming and not a rattle to be heard, thank friggen god!! The neighbours will also be happy. Me so happy. Hopefully it stays that way after a good drive... As for muffler guy.... it’s a public forum, so I will refrain from commenting. PM me if you’re considering.... Update  7/7: Morning drive between rain: it’s a tad quieter inside the cabin I think... with all the air around the muffler now, I’m guessing it’s softened the tone a little, which is ok.

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Cheers Phil, one happy chappy. I'm a big advocate for putting a hot rod on a diet, 100kgs is substantial. Carpets next Will like to hear it next SMT

Went for a couple of little squirts around the block today between rains, noticed it seems to be a bit quieter in the cabin when cruising. More civil. Maybe the air space around the muffler (now that it has some)  provides a slight dampening effect to the sound.Outside it’s great but it kinda feels strange hearing it idle with no distractions...up till now I haven’t been able to get out of the car and feel ok leaving the engine running, & just stand at the back & enjoy the sound of it idling - boy, that sound it’s like music! It’s not a mechanical & raspy, it’s a 3.6 so it has some meat to it, a deeper warbly sound, boy it’s good... must get an audio of it.

Oh no, turned the heater on, went for a cruise and the car slowly filled with exhaust. Not good, especially in winter in melbourne. Car's booked in for a another look. ?

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Might be time for a second opinion, it shouldn't be that difficult.

Not having a good run @Philbee Must be ridiculously frustrating. Hopefully it gets put right once and for all asap

Well, last weekend went for a SMT run to Marysville. There was actually a bit of snow roadside near the lake mountain turnoff (yes, a bit fresh) ...sorry I digress, my custom hand crafted sports muffler which has been giving me grief all these months (what grief, you ask? Look up), finally just decided to give it up. It started to  rattle all the time (all the time!) and ferociously went at speed. Decided, enough tinkering. That sucker, even though has cost me plenty of spondoolahs (thanks for nothing PS), is coming out! Picked up the car tonight  with a replacement second hand “test” muffler installed, compliments of Stu at nineauto. Took it straight home & sounded pretty good, just Goode olde  p-car sound. It’s a bit quieter (tamer) but sounds of silence is music to my rattle affected ears ....Ill need to give  it a run or 2 tosee how it hangs on. Here’s hoping....

Went for a decent drive this morning.... tested out the ‘test’ muffler. Hey presto, no rattles! Just idles quietly after an hour of whizzing around the dandenongs.  Gee it feels good pulling up next to a civilian and not getting a weird stare cos my car is making more noise than a tin of marbles falling down a drainpipe. Although, the slight loss is a bit more sedate, a softer growl & no more pops and crackles on deceleration or down changes. I’m ok with that....   for now. ? heres a sneak peek:

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Funny, as I want a muffler that does pop and crackle!

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People out for their morning stroll + my GT3 on downshift = priceless. I swear people think a guns gone off!

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Good lad ? ? ? ? ?

Yep, the olde muffler certainly turned heads when it worked! I miss that already ! Nuttin like a pop n crackle!

I'm resurrecting this post/thread cos.... well, um... its my thread!  And I've just booked the car in with Stu at Nineauto for a muffler... re-condition, sports enhancement! As I mentioned previously, it was a 'test muffler' of sorts, fairly stock. and I said this: Although, the slight loss is a bit more sedate, a softer growl & no more pops and crackles on deceleration or down changes. I’m ok with that....   for now. ? So, "now" has come fellow hotrodders.... need more noise and hopefully with a return of a crackle & pop or 2 and the obligatory waking of thy neighbours on a sunday morning!! Its a month or 2 off before the work commences but I'm excited already.  Stu's gonna weave some magic and clear out the internal pipes, baffles, bring back some soun'd and clean up the rough end . Yeah!

Ask @Stew F which one he has in his SC. I drove his car last weekend and it sounds fanf.....gtastic! Crackles n pops too

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It's a Magnaflow stainless sports muffler, 1 x 2-1/2" in, 2 x 2" out, with a 2-1/2" straight through pipe from the junction of the headers to the muffler.  Around 5 Kpa back pressure measured at the O2 sensor port.  It's loud, obnoxious, sounds angry, and I love it.

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Sounds great, Stew. That’s what I’m looking to edge back towards as well - 3 key criteria, loud, angry, obnoxious! 😀 How does it look from  behind? I mean some magnaflows are short in length peeking below the rear valance and imo don’t look as good as the std hotdog box that goes right across. Pic? Also, the straight through pipe is probably where your extra growl kicks in too... I have a sports cat b/n headers and muffler.

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With the rear valance panel on it looks less conspicuous.  I'm going to change it to twin pipes straight out the back at some stage. Here's a couple of vid's with the noise. https://www.instagram.com/p/Br7ALbGlQJLd0htu6Y4Yl4FdncqUJ0FqpuKtVE0/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=q4fn863albng https://www.instagram.com/p/Br7AdaTlWcEz2Y6e9JFXkSz1ADc009KTHD9Hzk0/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=18uxk5eco483a

The Kid say's Are you running a straight through "Penne" exhaust Stew? Word on the street is the sound is delicious!

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I've got a couple of megaphones you can try if you want LOUD mate!

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Geezus Lee... !!! That’d definitely wake the dead.... and my neighbours would get me arrested... 😁

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😄 I fitted some packing after this video to quieten them down a bit, as it was bloody loud without (just ask Sal as he has some), though my neighbour was an asshole, so I didn't really care too much 😁 I will be fitting them again when I can have some baffling made up to keep them a bit quieter, as I love the look of them

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The time is nigh.... going in tomorrow for muffler scrape and cleanup! Excited... 😀

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Sounds painful, can you claim that back on your private health insurance?

Car is back! I have good news and bad news. The good bit is the sound is back. At midrange blast, the air escapes nice & quick,  the car breathes  so much better . A few horses have returned! Also, the sound is deeper and growlier (is that a word?)... so happy with this too as it was a little sedate as I mentioned before. At idle and crawling past the neighbours, it doesnt seem to ruffle the feathers either I think, so thats pretty good. But if you blip the pedal, it growls up and back much louder, quicker, a more responsive pedal. All good - winning on that front. I will attempt to load some sound bites soon. And... I even have a further upgrade path:  We got talking about the 100cell sports cat I added awhile back. Hmmm, could drop that puppy on ebay and go a bypass - zero cells!!   Good to have options right? The bad bit is... its not exactly what i was hoping for visually. Im paying big bucks so my expectation was on the high side.  Although 80% of it you cant see anyway. But you know what its like, you just know its there so it annoys you just enough to be on your mind. ....  The saga continues (just a little )  Im  afraid....

jesus christ at this point it would have been cheaper to send the car up and have exhaust innovations/CES/whoever do it up here? haha

Yep.... agree with that.... 😕

Intersting thread. Here is the exhaust I have been experimenting with... Dynomax 17231 with internal crossover (google it for images). Was recommended by William Knight in the usa.. he hadn't used it himself but we thought it would work out.. and I was willing to experiment. My engine is a 3.0 with cams, compression, and itbs. The airflow as seen from my VE numbers in the tune is quite high, however I am experimenting some resonance around 2400rpm.. it presents itself as a "flat spot" and the VE numbers are very low. PLus the engine vibrates a little around that RPM point.  I opened the muffler to see that the crossover was not 100% perfect so I had it welded up. It made the car smoother and reduced the vibration, but it still was not a great match for my motor. I have another style to go on later this week.

Thanks @Mike D'Silva ... good insight!

You know what, this thread is not dead. 💐 R I P 💐 After all the investment of my hard earned and time on my muffler it’s still not 100% in my book. Performance wise, it’s ok & it sounds pretty good too now. But for my car, because of its looks, it needs 3elements whenever I touch it, ie. when the mechanic does their thing, performance, quality, visual appeal. The cars not a dirty rally mongrel, it’s kinda clean & presentable... so all work needs to maintain and upgrade where possible that clean good look. Even the bits ya can’t see so much! Because I know it’s there. so, my muffler (the exhaust), it has 2of the 3 key elements ok  but the final one, how it looks, it fails. It looks like a bastard mongrel under there now.... not what I want. When funds and time become avail, I’ll post some before and after shots and an update. Yes, there’s an upgrade project in the wings. The story continues.... No, there’ll be no tartan involved! 😋

Hmmm,... 1 yr on, Getting an itchy trigger.... might need to upgrade.

@Philbee Sound like essential work to me.  Now just need to find a shop to do the work and who are within 5 klm from home

Ok,  bit the bullet... a final update... whammo, got a delivery from Alabama USA!! lookey lookey...one new muffler: And the big cahuna, a new set of headers..!, yeehaa !!! 😊

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BillyBoat?

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M&K

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Give the man a cee-gar!!

M&K exhaust now installed thanks to Nick at Cascone Autosports! Here’s a BEFORE vid.... here’s the AFTER vid with new MK EXHAUST.. 😊

Love it.

You gotta be happy with that !!! 👍

The vids ive posted above dont really highlight the difference as im a bit shy around the neighbours here at home, theres an elderly couple next door....  but to give you some further insight the MK exhaust is 5 times louder (?) & angrier sounding than my stock system i had. At full roar its echoes a mile away.... just what the doctor ordered! The cars stock exhaust felt (& sounded) way too docile for the RS badge stuck on the back. And I really love the angry tarmac rally car sound. And M&K delivers on that front big time. The car now drives differently as well, apart from the sound. The loud pedal is more responsive, the car feels more lively and has more a get up and go. As a result of the bewt sound I find myself downshifting more as I hit a corner and that helps my performance overall too. ( was a bit lazier with the quieter feedback). The better air flow overall has given the car an extra boost too i feel, it definitely feels a bit more powerful... 10hp maybe? I picked M&K over the SSI/Dansk soln as I read some conflicting reviews on 3.6 engines being restricted with SSIs that might be more tuned for 3.0 & 3.2 cars... As mine is a 3.6, i only heard good things for my setup with MK. I highly recommend for any G-body car if you want a bit more sound and more hotrod sound. But note, its loud and not a moderate update on the sound front!! 😉 Heres the site, select 'products' then 'M&K 911 products : http://www.rarlyl8.com/home.html My muffler is the MKM27 - 2 in, 1 out My headers are the "tuned long tube headers'. Email: [email removed] Contact: Brian Bodart Rarly L8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust ph: 0011 1 (256)536-9977 Alabama USA Note: Brian is very contactable and replied to all my emails.... philbee 😁

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So what I gather from this is it sounds fantastic, but not something you want to road trip in for hours at a time?

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Yes, I love it, definitely fantastic for me. It is a bit louder in the cabin at constant speed but is quite reasonable I feel, ok for longer trips. It’s when you put your foot down or downshift is when the sound jumps up a notch...

The brief video of you on Instagram leaving the carpark sounds fantastic @Philbee

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Thanks mate, it spins me out too. Never expected the sound to be that good. I love it. 😊

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What was the damage to your wallet (ballpark) for this upgrade? Would you recommend M&K for 3.0 engines as well?

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The pricing is on the website for the muffler and the headers.... it cost me about $400 in taxes and the install was sub 1k. would I recommend? Yes, of course but just check with Brian as my headers were specifically (at least I think they were) for a 3.6, that is the primary and secondary collectors inner diameters were a little bigger than SSI headers which are definitely good for 3.0 & 3.2 as an alternate great set of headers.

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Cool, thanka for the pointers