Desperately seeking 996...! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hello all, after a number of older pork based fun cars (964s & a 944t), I find myself back in the Porsche game, albeit precisely at the moment that all of the lovely air-cooled varieties have gone ballistic in price terms. Ho hum! So, I've decided that I could find a decent 996 C2 manual with either loads of invoices & recent bores & IMS checks/upgrades, then I should try that route. I've spoken to my local preferred Porsche specialist, along with Northway & RPM Technik, all of whom are keeping an eye out for me, but just thought I'd see if anyone among the Pistonheads massive has a well loved 996 that they are thinking of selling. All ideas considered. Cheers Edited by appletonn on Friday 17th April 13:25

That'll be me then! I'm moving house in a month, into St Albans, which means I need to go back to a single car. Extremely unhappy about selling the 996 and my 90, but needs must. Ollie at RPM inspected mine in the autumn and it's just been serviced by Jaz. Over 20k of invoices there in the file too. It's 98 R reg still on ambers, ocean blue, 79k. It's a peach. Haven't listed it yet, but it's going on here as soon as I get back from a work trip next week. Happy to chat about them/it if you'd like some general advice, event If mine isn't for you. ral

My Hartech maintained 996 will be going up for sale this weekend. The ad is written; I just need to take some photographs. It's a silver '98 with 130K on the clock and has been on "the plan" for about ten years. Feel free to PM me...

selwonk said: My Hartech maintained 996 will be going up for sale this weekend. The ad is written; I just need to take some photographs. It's a silver '98 with 130K on the clock and has been on "the plan" for about ten years. Feel free to PM me... PM sent!

richardalanlee said: That'll be me then! I'm moving house in a month, into St Albans, which means I need to go back to a single car. Extremely unhappy about selling the 996 and my 90, but needs must. Ollie at RPM inspected mine in the autumn and it's just been serviced by Jaz. Over 20k of invoices there in the file too. It's 98 R reg still on ambers, ocean blue, 79k. It's a peach. Haven't listed it yet, but it's going on here as soon as I get back from a work trip next week. Happy to chat about them/it if you'd like some general advice, event If mine isn't for you. ral PM sent too!

Great to hear that you're finally coming back to the fold Nick.

boxsey said: Great to hear that you're finally coming back to the fold Nick. Yep lousy timing though, my old 964 is out of reach now!!

appletonn said: Yep lousy timing though, my old 964 is out of reach now!! Don't worry mate..the Mk 1 996 is the new 964. Get in now while you can. A couple of fellow North West 964 owners have bought 996s recently.

...agree on up tick on mk1 996's I know several aircooled hoarders who are starting to fill their boots with good mk1's...

Black_mamba said: ...agree on up tick on mk1 996's I know several aircooled hoarders who are starting to fill their boots with good mk1's... Too true. Early 996 will become rightly IMO a true classic. Buy whilst you can. Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 17th April 20:35

Some friends are trading in a lovely 996 C4S that is well looked after, mileage about 80K I think, going at a place in Nottingham, Parkway Specialist Cars.

couldnt agree more re 996, i have a 964 and had a 996 mk1 which i sold too cheaply about 6 months ago, i think it was late 60's on the miles, it was a non sunroof too, in years to come..... they are definately appreciating, but is their next hurdle going to be running into the value area of 997's, which to some people is a much more modern execution?

That's exactly what I was wondering. 997 certainly more modern interior but I'm thinking that an early 996 with cable throttle could be seen as last of the analogue 911s, water cooled or not? I've now had two extremely interesting emails and will be arranging viewings in the near future. I do love the narrow bodied 996s as they are still relatively compact for threading down country roads

Good luck and let us know how you get on

A car that I've viewed is going into Hartech on Friday for a borescope, so we'll see what that brings! I'm alternating between excitement & deep fear about the whole 996 engine piece - maybe I simply need to stop reading posts on 996 forums??!

appletonn said: A car that I've viewed is going into Hartech on Friday for a borescope, so we'll see what that brings! I'm alternating between excitement & deep fear about the whole 996 engine piece - maybe I simply need to stop reading posts on 996 forums??! Get on Hartech's plan if it'll give you peace of mind.

thegoose said: Get on Hartech's plan if it'll give you peace of mind. The car is currently on the Hartech plan & has been for around 12 yrs, but it's apparently no longer transferable. Was going to use my mates at Unit 11, as I've always dealt with Johnny & Danny since my first 964 many moons ago, but the Hartech plan would at least ease the financial impact should I need an engine rebuild. If it checks out & I buy it, then I want to be able to drive it like Porsche intended rather than nanny it all the time, so if I have to get the motor rebuilt in 2yrs time, then at least I know the rest of the car is sorted too!! Every cloud & all that...

appletonn said: The car is currently on the Hartech plan & has been for around 12 yrs, but it's apparently no longer transferable. Ah, I didn't know that. Are you able to start afresh on the plan yourself, following the inspection of course? appletonn said: Was going to use my mates at Unit 11, as I've always dealt with Johnny & Danny since my first 964 many moons ago... I know them well, Jonny started me racing 10 years ago (and came to a lot of the meetings to support me for free in my first year) and in the 6 years I raced my 911SC and 964 they looked after me well and provided cars with a 100% reliability record (which continued when I raced for Hartech - well over 100 races over 9 seasons and no breakdowns at all). Unit 11 will look after you well and can set the car up how you want it, but I have to say that for any mechanical engine work on a non-mezger 9x6 or 9x7 engine (which I know you hope you won't ever need) I'd always use Hartech - just a short tour of their place is an easy demonstration of how much experience they have and how involved they are in the development of solutions to these engines, and as far as I'm aware it's unrivalled. Fingers crossed the inspection goes well, you buy the car and then get on with enjoying without worrying about it.

appletonn said: thegoose said: Get on Hartech's plan if it'll give you peace of mind. The car is currently on the Hartech plan & has been for around 12 yrs, but it's apparently no longer transferable. On what basis is it no longer transferable? Do you know who it was you spoke to?

monthefish said: On what basis is it no longer transferable? Do you know who it was you spoke to? Tobias (Workshop manager?) told me that last week. They have apparently been planning to change it for a couple of years, but only just got round to it. I would have to put the car through their Gold Major service again in order to be accepted back onto the scheme in my name, as it were!

thegoose said: I know them well, Jonny started me racing 10 years ago (and came to a lot of the meetings to support me for free in my first year) and in the 6 years I raced my 911SC and 964 they looked after me well and provided cars with a 100% reliability record (which continued when I raced for Hartech - well over 100 races over 9 seasons and no breakdowns at all). Unit 11 will look after you well and can set the car up how you want it, but I have to say that for any mechanical engine work on a non-mezger 9x6 or 9x7 engine (which I know you hope you won't ever need) I'd always use Hartech - just a short tour of their place is an easy demonstration of how much experience they have and how involved they are in the development of solutions to these engines, and as far as I'm aware it's unrivalled. Fingers crossed the inspection goes well, you buy the car and then get on with enjoying without worrying about it. Jonny did the PPI on my first 964 (after I'd bought it - numpty mistake!) & looked after that one, my 944 Turbo & my last 964 too, so I trust them completely but I'm wondering whether to get the car (if I buy it) back onto the Hartech scheme as they know these cars so well, as you say.

appletonn said: Jonny did the PPI on my first 964 (after I'd bought it - numpty mistake!) & looked after that one, my 944 Turbo & my last 964 too, so I trust them completely but I'm wondering whether to get the car (if I buy it) back onto the Hartech scheme as they know these cars so well, as you say. I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed.

boxsey said: I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed. I agree Steve, I may not have put it very well but what I meant was that Unit 11 can definitely look after the car properly but if there's an internal engine issue I'd take either the engine or the whole car (whatever's most convenient really) to Hartech - they're the experts on these engines. Of course, fingers crossed the engine won't ever cause any problems. I feel like this is sounding like a scene from The Godfather now "all I ask is that one day, and that day may never come......"

boxsey said: I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed. Trouble is Steve, that Unit 11 don't rebuild the 'kettles'& putting £80pm away into the Hartech scheme to cover me totally for a potential £5-6k labour bill for an engine rebuild at any point in the first 12 months, as opposed to finding £9k for a rebuild via Jonny, seems like the safer bet for a 996?

Great idea Nick... 996 C2 3.4 (with ambers..) is going to be a classic, and I hope it will be affordable for years to come. Mind you, I'm thinking about selling by 986S and getting a second 944

If I had the space I'd be hunting out a nice early 996 C2 in boring silver on ambers and maybe even 17's. I'd park it up and forget about it, the values will go North very soon in my opinion. Read the reports when it was launched, every pundit raved about it saying how much better it was than the 993 it replaced. They are a fantastic very capable understated cars. Just try and find a nice un-molested one.....

It's probably financially sound to buy an early 3.4 and pick up a crated engine from Porsche at the same time! Providing you have the storage space.

By the time the car has had the first qualifying service and then the monthly planned payments the outlay seems to be about 2k. That in itself would cover the labour cost of rebuilding an engine but the other cost for liners etc would still have to be paid on top iirc? No way would the labour bill be 5-6k. I think the pre 2001 cars stack up very well on the reliability front, its the post 2001 cars I would be wary of, although if Porsche continues offering cheap exchange short engines they do start to look good value. appletonn said: boxsey said: I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed. Trouble is Steve, that Unit 11 don't rebuild the 'kettles'& putting £80pm away into the Hartech scheme to cover me totally for a potential £5-6k labour bill for an engine rebuild at any point in the first 12 months, as opposed to finding £9k for a rebuild via Jonny, seems like the safer bet for a 996? [/quote Edited by ras62 on Friday 24th April 12:44

ras62 said: Trouble is Steve, that Unit 11 don't rebuild the 'kettles'& putting £80pm away into the Hartech scheme to cover me totally for a potential £5-6k labour bill for an engine rebuild at any point in the first 12 months, as opposed to finding £9k for a rebuild via Jonny, seems like the safer bet for a 996? [/quote By the time the car has had the first qualifying service and then the monthly planned payments the outlay seems to be about 2k. That in itself would cover the labour cost of rebuilding an engine but the other cost for liners etc would still have to be paid on top iirc? No way would the labour bill be 5-6k. I think the pre 2001 cars stack up very well on the reliability front, its the post 2001 cars I would be wary of, although if Porsche continues offering cheap exchange short engines they do start to look good value. Well Hartech are telling me that to rebuild the 996 motor 'properly', with 6 new Cylinder inserts, IMS etc, the parts costs would be £3-4k & around £4-5k in labour. Depends on the extent of the rebuild - if just strip down & chuck it back together with new gaskets & bearings, then possibly £2k labour bill might be realistic, but if I want all of the weak points dealt with whilst it's apart, then I would estimate double that. Apparently all of the 'cheap' short engines from Porsche have now all gone - in any case, these will still have all of the same weak points present & correct, whereas the Hartech route should at least give me the new cylinders with the stiffer 'closed deck' arrangement, along with stronger IMS etc.

I would happily buy a 996 to run alongside my 993 because they do always look like bargains to me. But I guess I would be seeking three magic words if possible..... "Haretech engine rebuild" Like this.............. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-[phone removed]-Car... Although sadly not a mark one. I don't think

A993LAD said: I would happily buy a 996 to run alongside my 993 because they do always look like bargains to me. But I guess I would be seeking three magic words if possible..... "Haretech engine rebuild" Like this.............. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-[phone removed]-Car... Although sadly not a mark one. I don't think I was talking ot Tobias (Hartech workshop manager) about this earlier & he was saying how he sees adverts that state 'Hartech engine rebuild' but you don't know (without checking with Hartech) exactly the extent of the rebuild, ie was a cheap & cheerful job with fresh gaskets to stop oil leaks but leaving the original weak spots intact, the replacement of just 1 cracked cyclinder rather than all 6, or was it the Rolls-Royce option with 6 new cylinders, IMS fix etc! Buyer beware I guess!

edh said: Great idea Nick... 996 C2 3.4 (with ambers..) is going to be a classic, and I hope it will be affordable for years to come. Which is what I did - I bought it thinking 'it won't get any cheaper' if it goes up in value that would be fantastic! Crimp said: If I had the space I'd be hunting out a nice early 996 C2 in boring silver on ambers and maybe even 17's. I'd park it up and forget about it, the values will go North very soon in my opinion. Read the reports when it was launched, every pundit raved about it saying how much better it was than the 993 it replaced. They are a fantastic very capable understated cars. Just try and find a nice un-molested one..... Black, it will be the black ones that shoot up in value

appletonn said: Well Hartech are telling me that to rebuild the 996 motor 'properly', with 6 new Cylinder inserts, IMS etc, the parts costs would be £3-4k & around £4-5k in labour. Depends on the extent of the rebuild - if just strip down & chuck it back together with new gaskets & bearings, then possibly £2k labour bill might be realistic, but if I want all of the weak points dealt with whilst it's apart, then I would estimate double that. Apparently all of the 'cheap' short engines from Porsche have now all gone - in any case, these will still have all of the same weak points present & correct, whereas the Hartech route should at least give me the new cylinders with the stiffer 'closed deck' arrangement, along with stronger IMS etc. I guess we wouldn't expect them to say any different! Does this mean if you get one that they agree is OK to go on their plan that you'll get a 'proper' rebuild if it goes bang and it won't cost you anything except your monthly payments?

boxsey said: I guess we wouldn't expect them to say any different! Does this mean if you get one that they agree is OK to go on their plan that you'll get a 'proper' rebuild if it goes bang and it won't cost you anything except your monthly payments? If it's on the plan & it goes bang, you 'just' pay for the parts costs - roughly £3-4k, depending on how much destruction the whole 'going bang' scenario has caused! The plan covers all labour costs for servicing, repairs etc. It will give me some peace of mind & I intend to keep a 'warchest' of £3k set aside for the fateful day & then get it rebuilt with the 6 proper Hartech barrels that make it far more structurally rigid & perhap[s stick a lightweight flywheel in there for good measure. Best laid plans & all that !!

4-5k is what 80-100 manhours, either that or the hourly rates are £100/hour. Either way that's a lot. The figures don't add up imo, I would rather buy a 3.4 and keep the money for regular servicing and consumables. The cost of the Rolls Royce rebuild would be a customer preference so one would presume at the customer cost?

So, OP, have you bought a car yet?!!

appletonn said: monthefish said: appletonn said: thegoose said: Get on Hartech's plan if it'll give you peace of mind. The car is currently on the Hartech plan & has been for around 12 yrs, but it's apparently no longer transferable. On what basis is it no longer transferable? Do you know who it was you spoke to? Tobias (Workshop manager?) told me that last week. They have apparently been planning to change it for a couple of years, but only just got round to it. I would have to put the car through their Gold Major service again in order to be accepted back onto the scheme in my name, as it were! That seems a bit daft, and goes against what I believed was Hartech's MO. Their stance was always that a well maintained car (by them) is likely to cost less to run in the long run, and there's a kind of shared ownership in the car's good health, i.e. its in both parties' best interest for the car to be well maintained. On that basis, a car that has been with Hartech for 12 years is likely to be a very well maintained example, and therefore should be a better prospect for them to have on the scheme than, say, a car with 20k less miles but with a more sketchy service history with past maintenance by Tom, Dick and Harry.

I'd agree & was a little disappointed tbh The only reason I want to get on scheme again is to protect myself against engine rebuild costs. Otherwise would do most stuff myself & use Unit 11 for rest Oh & yes, I've now bought the car! Gulp!

Pics??

Couple of pics from vendor - I'm picking it up on Wednesday

appletonn said: Couple of pics from vendor - I'm picking it up on Wednesday Looks great. You won't regret that purchase.

Looking good, glad you found one. Following a glut of emails, mine is now listed on AT. It's the 79k miles Ocean Blue C2if anyone wants to get in touch. Been viewed 150 times since I listed is at 9.30pm yesterday, and I've had loads of emails already. First viewing tonight.

richardalanlee said: Looking good, glad you found one. Following a glut of emails, mine is now listed on AT. It's the 79k miles Ocean Blue C2if anyone wants to get in touch. Been viewed 150 times since I listed is at 9.30pm yesterday, and I've had loads of emails already. First viewing tonight. Cheers Richard, knew that yours wouldn't take long to sell.

Fingers crossed the V8 generates the same level of interest!

richardalanlee said: Fingers crossed the V8 generates the same level of interest! Who wouldn't love a V8 Defender?!!

'98 C2: 200 views in 21 hours '85 V8 90: 25 Guess the market is strong for these early cars!

appletonn said: Cheers Richard, knew that yours wouldn't take long to sell. Chap came to view it on Monday night, agreed the sale Tuesday morning. Picking it up next week. Sad times By the time I took it off AT it had over 400 views in 48 hours.

Well I drove my 996 home last night after Mike kindly picked me up from the station. Needs 1 or both front wheels balancing & the geometry feels a little off, now i've driven it at speed, but that s all easily sorted. Car feels strong, rattle free & beautifully damped on the fresh MO30 suspension. Will get it back onto Hartech scheme before exploring the rev range properly! Home Tight fit! Curves Edited by appletonn on Thursday 30th April 08:47 Edited by appletonn on Thursday 30th April 08:48

I was thinking "how on earth does he enter this car". Then realized, that you chaps sit on the wrong side...

I picked up a 57k polar silver/blue '98 cab with hard top and good spec for a song a few weeks ago. Using it as my 'summer' car and thoroughly enjoying it. Not into this RMS/IMS malarkey. But had it serviced and it 'seems fine' I don't see these an investments, just good usable interesting cars. Mine has the original lights...why spend money changing stuff like that? Is this Hartech warranty really a grand a year? Does one also need to have them service the car to preserve said warranty, by any chance?

Great car. Change the oil every 6 months to preserve the seals/bearings and she'll be as good as gold.

rubystone said: I picked up a 57k polar silver/blue '98 cab with hard top and good spec for a song a few weeks ago. Using it as my 'summer' car and thoroughly enjoying it. Not into this RMS/IMS malarkey. But had it serviced and it 'seems fine' I don't see these an investments, just good usable interesting cars. Mine has the original lights...why spend money changing stuff like that? Is this Hartech warranty really a grand a year? Does one also need to have them service the car to preserve said warranty, by any chance? My car Was Hartech car for last 12 yrs, give or take, but I'm in a dilemma whether to contue that or simply bank the monthly 'premium' & use my preferred local indy for anything I can't tackle myself. Will certainly be changing oil regularly & warming it up carefully before exploring the rev range, but can't decide if Hartech plan is a way of at least mitigating the labour bill, should the worst come to the worst with the engine of cheese.

rubystone said: Is this Hartech warranty really a grand a year? Does one also need to have them service the car to preserve said warranty, by any chance? It's a maintenance plan - you pay monthly and it includes a service and MOT every year AND pretty much all labour for any breakdowns or repairs (not upgrades or elective work obviously, but if something's worn out they're flexible about what it's replaced with). So if you need brake pads/discs or a clutch or whatever, you just pay for the parts. What I like about the principle of it is that it's in their interests to have your car running well and not visiting the workshop for repairs.

thegoose said: It's a maintenance plan - you pay monthly and it includes a service and MOT every year AND pretty much all labour for any breakdowns or repairs (not upgrades or elective work obviously, but if something's worn out they're flexible about what it's replaced with). So if you need brake pads/discs or a clutch or whatever, you just pay for the parts. What I like about the principle of it is that it's in their interests to have your car running well and not visiting the workshop for repairs. Thanks.