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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH912 US barnfind OTLW project
Leading reported evidence
Install 912 engine, i will be up
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
By the time I have found, bought, had rebuilt and installed an old 912 engine, I will be up for similar coin, and will have the collective power of a couple of vespas.
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Suggestion
I believe your best bet would be to get the engine done and the disconnect the lid opening mechanism to stop prying eyes (but leave an ancillary way of opening it).
Leading evidence: 'Install 912 engine, i will be up' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Disconnect lid opening mechanism' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I'm surprised you have used the word "cost" in your posts Tom!
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Suggestion
I believe your best bet would be to get the engine done and the disconnect the lid opening mechanism to stop prying eyes (but leave an ancillary way of opening it).
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
Polo - Too pricey, and I couldn't stomach to see such a fine work of engineering in a ratty car than needs floor pans (btw have you worked out the cost of replacing these...?)....and hate to say it....rusty floor pans, can be the tip of the iceberg....ok I'm stopping now, back onto "envisioning, unicorns and rainbows///with glitter"
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
If not we should organise an early coffee run somewhere once it’s on the road to introduce it to PFA!!
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Disconnect lid opening mechanism
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Suggestion
I believe your best bet would be to get the engine done and the disconnect the lid opening mechanism to stop prying eyes (but leave an ancillary way of opening it).
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
By the time I have found, bought, had rebuilt and installed an old 912 engine, I will be up for similar coin, and will have the collective power of a couple of vespas.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Polo - Too pricey, and I couldn't stomach to see such a fine work of engineering in a ratty car than needs floor pans (btw have you worked out the cost of replacing these...?)....and hate to say it....rusty floor pans, can be the tip of the iceberg....ok I'm stopping now, back onto "envisioning, unicorns and rainbows///with glitter"
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
115 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Porsche Forum Australia: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
A bit exy, but once you factor in buying/sourcing an engine and having it fixed up, the difference is....well still a bit.
Well this wasn't really supposed to happen.
Several false starts of projects over the last two years, but maybe the recent selling of a local yellow 'street find' 912 tipped the balance. That and the fact that this dusty, engine-less example was being saved and the seller only wanted $9K
This could be fun. A journey to be had back from the US, a possible 4 pot engine build on route, design and planning. The end game? Not sure yet...
I'm loving the cookie cutters
thats my plan tomo. The only way I can get a 912 without an engine registered in OZ is if it has an equivalent engine to what it was born with. In love with the Polo. A bit exy, but once you factor in buying/sourcing an engine and having it fixed up, the difference is....well still a bit. But would be a pretty unique unit to own in OZ
I have one of those. Be fun for someone to try and get the right keycode given its not connected.
not sure I'm on board with this 4 cyl talk. Unless we are also talking about a turbo.
Do you have a bead on the rust situation?
We need to find a batcave for the Paddo Outlaw Club Tom, garaging at a real premium now...
Congrats, you finally bought a car you can actually modify with zero guilt!
you beat me to it Jeff - the polo motor looks interesting but for $40k, really?
you can get some decent power out of a beetle motor and a decent engine note, but let's be honest, the 912 is about cruising and looking cool - if you want to go fast T you already have that base well and truely covered....
I reckon all the beseeching and cajoling here will come to nought ????
Plenty of options
v8
subie
typ 4
typ 1
6
polo
emory - polo
or do what they did and cut n shut a 6.
The issue here boys is that there is currently no engine. The only way to get compliance is to put an original 912 engine in it or something that matches (don't ask me details, but I have been told that the POLO does). So no 6, v8 or subie etc etc. Of course I could always put any of these in afterwards, but then I am up for the cost of two engines and two installs, and none of the above are easy installs from what Autohaus have told me. Not easy = expensive.
So I really have two options
1. find an old 912 engine and have that installed. Just a little bit boring, but the cheaper option for sure. Just out of interest what would a old 912 engine cost? In the world of old Porsche's I am assuming very little comes for much less than $10k. Then I have the cost of rebuild and install? So $25 - $30k total? I know some here would be do this themselves (but that aint me). I will still have a 40 + year old engine with unknown mileage and dubious performance
2. Polo - costs above include install from what I can tell at the moment. I dont get a fast car, but a step up 'from a regular 912 and I get a completely new engine. I paid $9k for the car so don't mind dropping a bit more for something a bit more interesting in the back. Early days yet, but the $20k premium seems ok.
This bloke would appear to have all the spare 912 engines in Americky
http://www.ebay.com/usr/dporschepartsman?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
Probably worth an email.
9K for a roller 912. Bloody well done. I agree with the patina sentiments. There's something great about a classic sports car with perfect mechanicals and patina.
Get the car to Australia as it stands - little cost aside from freight. Source a local water cooled VW engine (4cl 1600cc) and get the car running and registered - minimal cost. Once on the road, the world is your oyster....you can "tweak" once the car is in your name. If you end up ditching the VW engine you can always sell it. Motor swap
I would suggest if you put a $40k Polo motor in the car they will asses the improved value of the car when it comes in and you might get hit with a greater tax bill
+1
You've already gone through the painful process of paying the Australian government more than necessary. Get the car here as is and source or import engines locally. If you have your heart set for a monster engine(Polo), then import that separately.
There used to be a clause that if you modernised the car enough they can class it as a newer car, thus negating the age of the car and making it very hard to import, not saying it will happen but look into it first (or has this rule be removed?)
Not being rude here, but why a water cooled engine? That creates a lot more work and wiring issues than installing an air cooled VW engine, which would both need chassis/engine mount modifications and need to be signed off by an engineer. Then it would be deemed as a custom engine, not to mention the engineering inspection and roadworthy headaches.
Source the correct engine type and be done with it, as I think you'll have dramas with any other engine that is not period correct for the car
Getting the four pot will help with engineering etc but just saying.
Porsche 911 S 1974 2.7 Engine Webers not included. on Gumtree
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/1121165795?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=sms
more pics. Its worth the $9k just to see the pic of the barn it came out of
. Very straight and all rust free apart from pans needs replacing is the report so far
I had a 912 (RS Replica) with a VW Type 1 engine, not a bad little car, they do handle very well as they are quite light in the back with the 4cyl
My suggestion (taking into consideration what I think you'll be happy with)
Polo - Too pricey, and I couldn't stomach to see such a fine work of engineering in a ratty car than needs floor pans (btw have you worked out the cost of replacing these...?)....and hate to say it....rusty floor pans, can be the tip of the iceberg....ok I'm stopping now, back onto "envisioning, unicorns and rainbows///with glitter"
Original 912 engine....booooring...yawn, besides, this car has departed the originality days, so why try now
Enter....a neck snapping and period looking engine, 2.4 ltr VW engine with a Porsche style cooling fan setup....what $10K did you say??? Faaark ! Press 1 now....get that credit card out
http://bergmannvw.net/Website-New/pages/Engines/engines-super_flow.html
You'd be quite surprised how well this would go in a light car like that 912
yeah - no unicorns cost $9k, but I'll reach out to the LA outlaw fraternity for a shop that can fix the pans and anything else that pops up Rob. That engine looks like it would easily fit, but would it get though compliance? I will ask the guys that know. Very shiney. Not quite as cool though
it's a 67 so not an early car. Love the green gauges. Bit confused by the orange lights over them, but there are a few aftermarket anomalies...
This is probably the smartest thing you can do if you have contacts stateside that you can trust ^^ Get the expensive bodywork done over there, it will probably cost you a lot less if you do it wisely... but just be wary that our yardstick of good bodywork doesn't even register on the USA's radar, because their average standard is so crap... I would even reach out to the top of town guys like emory motorsports if you can, guys that know how to manipulate metal. Because as Rob said, floor pans is just the beginning usually, that rust gets into everything connecting the floor pans to to body, i.e. rocker panels (sills), wheel wells, strut towers etc... take it from someone
who's done such a resto.
You may need some custom sections fabbed up to save you cutting out a whole rocker panel.
Then there is the mexican way of just dropping the new ones over old, silicon and rivets...
Yep a whole can of worms having bodywork done in the states from afar .... by the way Tomnus congrats on buying well ...so far.....
""Then there is the mexican way of just dropping the new ones over old, silicon and rivets...
""".. And what's wrong with that may I ask, it's over engineering compared to the Blaxland way of repairwork, just glueing!
Floor pans are CHEAP to buy and install if you go to the right people, not 'Porsche specialists', yet it can be just the start with potential sill rust etc. My 66 only needed floors yet nothing else
I think it depends on why rusty.
leaking windows = floor plans
driving on salty roads = sills
some lucky people get both. Most of the horror shows you see on UK forums seem to have solid pans. Probably because they are galvanised cars - the early cars rotted away decades prior.
+1 on the dodgy US bodywork. In my years working in panel shops I saw quite a few imported cars from over there, and generally they were good from far, but far from good. Very rough work most of the time, and you didn't need to be an expert to pick it.
If you bring that in as-is, you're going to pay SFA tax/import on it.
id send the engine separate unless it jacks the freight cost massively.
Then again I'd just look for a local 2.7 or 3.0.
the only tax I would have to pay on the car would be GST and 10% on 9k aint that much. If I import the engine separately i would be up for GST and duty on the engine. If the car just happens to have an engine in it, as most cars seem to do, it is just treated as the one item and based on the value that I bought the car at. The documentation will just state i bought a car for $9k and it has a title. So i am up for $900 in tax and the cost to ship the car.
Almost definitely leaning towards getting all work done in the US. The actual cost of the POLO engine is $17k. They then just charge $20+ for the assembly and installation. By the time I have found, bought, had rebuilt and installed an old 912 engine, I will be up for similar coin, and will have the collective power of a couple of vespas. POLO is 200hp +.
2.7 or 3.0 is not an option as it won't get through compliance, and i don't see the point of buying and installing two engines. Costs would get crazy.
I would certainly get the engine done in the US, but I would be wary of getting the body done there. The customs rules have lots of loop holes, but the customs guys aren't stupid. If the car comes into the country in decent condition, they won't believe the $9k purchase price and will want to see more documentary evidence. It could cause a whole world of pain. I believe that at best, you risk paying tax on the cost of the car plus the cost of all the work, while at worst, they consider it a rebuilt car and don't let it in (the Singer problem).
I believe your best bet would be to get the engine done and the disconnect the lid opening mechanism to stop prying eyes (but leave an ancillary way of opening it). Make sure the car will not start. Then I don't think they will question the $9k.
they would be a bit simple to mistake a dusty 912 for a Singer back date mate. Getting her washed today to see how she looks sans dust, but any body work will be underneath. Will probably maintain the patina
I honestly don't think they will care but the reason for the polo in the first place is that it is a 4 cylinder and this is technically period correct for the 912 so can get through compliance this end. I might option the 'patina' finish
As far as I'm aware, if the vehicle's engine is of the same capacity, i.e 4 cylinder, it shouldn't be a problem if it is mounted in the original engine mounts, or a derivative of
I should have remembered it when I looked at fitting in a 6cyl in the 912!
Also 'think' it needs to be of the same appearance. Though that's here in SA the nanna state, where you can't even have a metallic type paint of the same colour if it didn't come out with it originally!
Can't you put a 3.0 engine in and then put the car on club reg/permit like what can be done down in Vic? Think you will very disappointed with power going from a 930 to a 4cyl!!!
not for compliance. Needs to be as per original spec (or close to) to get through + a few bits like seat belts and headlights will need to be upgraded (just been though it with my 930). Afterwards you can put what you like in it but I am trying to avoid doing two engine installs. 200+bhp in a 912 will more than enough. You can basically pick the car up with your hands ?
Where do I suggest that customs would mistake it for a Singer? That would be ridiculous, not least because I doubt they would even know what one is. I didn't realise you were only going to do structural body issues under the skin and leave the outer as is. The issues could potentially come about if you were doing a full reno. The key thing is not to arouse their suspicions. If the car looks like it could be a $9k car then no problems.
jeeezzz are all ex RS owners this sensitive ??? Machines and macchiatos on tomorrow mate. You up for a 6.20 meet in Paddington lane? Or maybe see you there as your place at PLC might be closer?
That's me. A sensitive soul!
I am doing some work on the car and i will need to see if I can get it finished today. If I can, I will see you there. Do you have a convoy?
@turboT
- to get rego, just chuck a Formula Vee race engine into the outlaw. 1600cc VW 4 cylinder race engine. A fast and cheap drop in option...
www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/201680279281
This bloke has had his Formula Vee for sale for a year now. He'd probably take $7000 for the whole race car.
Not sure if this would prove to be worth while? No experience in the 1600s, but the 1200s are no more powerful than a standard engine, maybe a bit of balancing but otherwise stock. They fly in 375kg (or what ever it is now/ for the 1600s) but may struggle to move a 912....?
Indeed , the lowly power combined with the lowly weight is what makes Formula V work.
A man used to curling 250kg won't find much thrill in curling 40 odd
As per my post above, the modification required to install a VW engine of any size is not worth it. I looked into it at length with VW and Porsche experts before I rebuilt my 912 engine. The costs, plus sourcing the VW engine, rebuilding it, chassis mods, engineering it for rego etc etc made it a costly and pointless exercise
With all due respect, Tom has obviously looked at a few options with this car, and it has been clearly stated that a 200hp Polo engine is his personal priority. I have also mentioned that I would prefer he install a flat 6 or a hot 912 engine, yet any talk of a VW being used is a waste of time. Yes its been done before, so have WRX turbo's etc, yet with Australian regulations, it would be a pain in the arse to gain a roadworthy certificate without spending an uneccesary amount of cash
It seems like the waters are getting muddied for Tom, with regards to original engine talk.
It is NOT an issue to install the 911 6 Cyl - Talk to the engineer that will certify the car
It CAN be an issue to get import approval of a modified car/hot-road - Talk to DOTARS or the importer to bring the car (they may advocate bring it in without motor in situ)
There IS an issue with aftermarket engine blocks, I'm not sure of the way around this personally - again
talk to the engineer.
Be mindful pre 76 cars are NOT subject to ADR's so there is a lot of "handy" loopholes should you wish to modify.
Jono, my posts are not having a go at you or anyone else mate. I am just stating that I have been down this path, and its a waste of time and money, with potential headaches
Jeez leave you lot alone for a few hours and look what happens ?
Seller gone a bit quiet...hoping no Jono scam right now. Trawled his facebook and I have all the identities of his children as security
...and enough bullshit talk about VW engines and 912 engines. We are know they are underpowered crap. That is why 911's were invented
behold the 'best of both worlds' - Isn't she pretty
fuck me - is there any shipping company that actually knows what they are doing??
Using 'Personal Import' this time - (USA to OZ last time, who lost the car three times and took 5 months to deliver the car).
These guys - much better at communication, but like the others have no actual idea where you car is. Turns out POLO was picked up a week later than they said at LA and is still on the way to Taiwan. New delivery time in Sydney 10/10.
Looking like a X-mas delivery...
Not sure how long compliance and blue slip take but would be great to see it at eastern classic for coffee Sunday week if it was ready. If not we should organise an early coffee run somewhere once it’s on the road to introduce it to PFA!!
Takes us back to the thread from 6 months or so ago about the ship from Europe with a couple of member's Jag Epaces (sorry, the name of the ship escapes me)
