IMS question

I am looking at a 2004 C4S that claims does not need IMS replacement according to vin number. First was there a factory fix for the IMS? Second what was the earliest vin that the factory repaired the failing IMS for the C4S? Thank you,

I had the Intermediate Shaft (IMS) failure in my car 5 years ago. I ended up getting a new complete engine from the dealership on which I have only put 15,000 miles since I had it installed. It is still like new, with no leaks, seepage, wet. It is bone dry underneath and it does not even burn oil (or maybe I dont notice, since every time I take it in for a oil change it is full and I only drive about 3K miles per year on this car). Anyways, since being traumatized by the Intermediate Shaft (IMS) failure previously, I want to get some feedback on the IMS Guardian. I have the following questions for anyone that has this installed in their car: 1-Does it really work? 2-Have you ever had a false alarm? How would you tell if you really need a new bearing? 3-Have you had the IMS Retrofit Kit installed as a result of the IMS Guardian going off? 4-How much is the labor to install the IMS Guardian? 5-How much is the labor to install the IMS Retrofit Kit? 6-Has anyone ever had an IMS failure after having the IMS Guardain and/or IMS Retrofit Kit installed? 7-Would you recommend getting the IMS Guardian? 8-Who would you recommend to install the IMS Guardian in the Los Angeles/Orange County area? Thanks in Advance!

Quotes source post: 4772414

Quote: Be careful going by the VIN. It would be better to get the engine serial number. Your motor could have been swapped out with the latest large ceramic M97 bearing. If that's the case, I wouldn't swap the bearing out. If it's the original engine, then you'll have the most failure prone of all three versions of the M96 bearing - that is, the small single row bearing. These are the worst of the bunch.

I've seen a lot of discussion on this on the Boxster forum. There, or search here and there may be something.

Having had an IMS failure about a year ago, despite an LN replacement 50K miles back, this is my take: If you get a good deal on a 996, budget $2k for a replacement and have it done at a shop you trust after you buy it. At present values, a 996 is a good investment. I drove mine for 110K miles ( bought with 30K on the odometer ), and when the IMS failed with no warning, at 140k , I liked the car so much I placed a rebuilt engine at $24K and just decided to keep it forever. ( If the shop had registered the LN IMS replacement, I would have been able to get them to cover at least some of the cost.)

Thank.

If you have a factory rebuilt engine, it will have the letters AT in the serial no. If it is the original engine, I would consider using the LN IMS Solution which converts it from a sealed ball bearing to a pressure fed bearing like the main and rod bearings. I did this conversion to my wife’s 2003 996 C2 last year as soon as we purchased it. I have been very happy with it. I have the LN ceramic bearing in my 2001 996. It was installed by Flat Six in 2015. I just purchased an IMS solution to install in the 2001. I wanted it initially but it was not available for the dual row bearing back in 2015. Installation was very straightforward but I welded a crowsfoot to the socket used to torque the nut so I could use a screwdriver to hold prevent the stud from turning.

The most information from users will probably be found at 986forum.com forums. Quote: I can give you some names of believers, just email me. Quote: A false alarm really isn't possible.. Because any amount of ferromagnetic material in the oil sump thats substantial enough to sound the alert is too much. It may or may not be the IMS Bearing, but it could be a camshaft, lifter or etc and could be an even bigger deal than the IMSB. Quote: I know of at least a dozen who have, they were just the ones that reported the occurrence. Quote: Average cost is 700.00 for the unit and installation, to include oil service, oil and sump inspection. Quote: Generally the IMSR runs a bare minimum of 2K with the in-depth and proper procedures running 3,500.00 all inclusive. Quote: None have been reported to date. Quote: I'll leave this up to the other posters. Quote: Tony Callas at Callas Rennsport. Tony has units in stock and he wrote the feature story that debuted the technology last October in Excellence Magazine. Tony was the first person to install the Guardian outside of Flat 6 Innovations.

Like the other posts have said just figure to do it any way. I have a early production 99 with the dual row bearing but I had it replaced with an LN any way. My RMS was failing but my mechanic said the bearing looked good. It was replaced any way with a new clutch and RMS. 2k for piece of mind vs. wondering and a 10k motor replacement.......

I had a failure at 54k and took the other route, resleeved and bore out to a 3.8 with LNE Nickies and of course upgraded the iMS. Got it done locally at Rennology. I should be bulletproof now but would have easily spent $700 on the guardian had I known. Now I just need to go back in for my 160 degree thermostat. These cars are made to be driven but a little piece of mind doesn't hurt either.

Volkers, the stock LN IMS Bearing is only warranted for two years (and that was just increased from one year). Further LN states.." normal maintenance every 4-5 years or 50-60k miles, maybe even sooner with the case of the single row bearing." You were about due to replace anyway (I know, not much consolation). I am in the same boat. I have a car that the the prior owner claimed had the IMS done at 39k miles in 2013 but no registration (I did speak to his shop and the owner claimed he did the work). Now at 50k, I had a ppi done, and the oil filter was spotless. Having the oil tested as well. Shop says unless oil test is bad, to wait until clutch replacement before replacing again.

I have a brand new IMS guardian sitting on my shelf if anyone is interested. Decided to gamble once again.

Porsche was manufacturing the problem “IMS cars” til early 2005 iirc, so anything up til then should be approached with that knowledge I could be wrong, this is from what I have read over the years on this issue, somebody will correct me here if wrong.

When I purchased my C4S in May, I had them do the retrofit because I wanted peace of mind. Had it done at the dealer along with RMS replacement, oil change, and some other minor work to the tune of about $2800.00. If you're worrying about it then get the retrofit and use a good oil such as Joe Gibbs DT 40. Also, not driving the car can cause problems as well, these are high reving engines and need to be driven as such, they can take it so long as you keep on top of the oil and maintain them. Some people say that the persentage of failure is so low it's not worth it, but to me it was. I also installed the spin on filter adapter. Just my 2 cents.

No the problem is both M96 and M97 engines used until my 2008 http://theimssolution.com/

Thanks Jake and everyone else for their feedback. Valuable info.

All of the standard LN Retrofit bearings (except the IMS Solution) have replacement intervals regardless of miles. If you don't want to worry with changing it out, then go with the IMS Solution. Remember, changing your bearing is a preventive measure and pulling a good bearing is what you want, not a failing bearing. So many people feel like they've been robbed when they go pull the bearing and it looks perfect. Again, that's what you want!

I just had my IMS,RMS etc. Changed as well for peace of mind. Had the clutch changed as well since it was the original. My luck really sucks and if there is the slightest chance out there for a failure...I'm sure it would've found its way to me. After getting everything swapped out I was told everything was in working order and no leaks. That's not what I really wanted to hear, but better to get it done now and just enjoy the car.

I find the whole IMS issue to be very confusing but I am still learning on the subject before I buy anything.

Quotes source post: 4786997

Quote: What are you confused about Choron? I'm sure there are many willing people here on the forum willing to bring light to the subject.

I had a ppi when I bought my car. I also paid for an oil change so they could see the filter to look for metal particles (was clean). I also authorized an oil analysis with Blackstone. This gives me enough peace of mind to wait until the clutch gets changed to address. From my report: Wear from the IMS bearing shows up as iron, and the 9-ppm in this sample is just fine. Keep in mind, the IMS bearing is a sealed unit so we don't see any metal from it until the seal fails. Watch for an oil leak near the rear main seal or oil filter metal as symptoms of IMS trouble. Universal averages show typical wear after ~3,700 miles of oil use. Wear metals are fine so we don't suspect any mechanical issues. The 5.0 TBN shows lots of active additive in the oil. We consider 1.0 too low. No fuel or water was found, and oil filtration is fine with insolubles at 0.3%.

Quotes source post: 4787268

Quote: Curious, how would you advise someone to "watch for an oil leak near the rear main seal" when oil can also leak from IMS flange?

Replace it with an aftermarket solution, and get peace in your soul..

The solution installed costs about $4500, which is pretty steep imho for a preventive measure. Assuming a $15k costs to rebuild and a 5% failure rate, the max cost to prevent spent should not exceed $750 or you are paying to much for the risk. If you have no symptoms (check filter, run oil analysis, wait until clutch replacement to reduce labor makes more sense to me than just throwing money at the car.

Is there anyway to determine if an IMS has been replaced? I am looking at a 2004 C4S, finally made it to Seattle and test drove the car at Park Place Ltd. Currently typing this in my hotel room. Two problems with the car, carfax has no accident but damage on the rear side bumper, no history of the car past 8 years ago. Dealer does not know what happened to the car before. Car has 46k miles. They have it priced at $36k . Should I factor IMS replacement, and a discount for damage? They have owned the car for over 265 days and don’t seem to care if it sells or not. Should I move on? Or pursue

Is there anyway to determine if an IMS has been replaced? No, unless on the registry here: http://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/ A PPI/Oil Test can determine if there are issues (but no guarantees, other problems can be shown in a test). 36k seems pricey even with clear accident history and ims.

No longer interested in Park Place’s C4S, they would not budge on price just came down to $35k. I explained how cars on bring a trailer without IMS are selling for $32k and they should take off at least a thousand or more because of damage on the carfax. They said the auctions are irrelevant, they want to sell their cars above their purchase price and hold on to them in a fluid market for 265 days. I said to them sometimes you have to take a loss. What world are they living in? Do they actually sell any cars, they are sitting in millions of dollars of cars. Sorry for the rant

Max, a lot of these cars are on consignment, with the dealer stuck with the owner's unwillingness to sell, so as long as they have room it costs them nothing to store. Also BAT is for sophisticated, mainly younger (a guess) buyers, that is not there usual customer. I looked for months, and even did a ppi on a 2004 4cs 9 hours away, offered 23k after ppi showed a need for brakes, front tires and small oil seeps, seller wouldn't budge of 25k, then pulled car from market. I ended up paying 30k locally for a 2004 C2, more than I wanted to spend due to color and condition.