25k to spend on a 997 - which one to avoid-engine issues - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hey all! I need your help! Always loved the M cars but will be looking to try Porsche this time round. I am sure you are tired of the endless stories from newbies asking about ims, rms and engine failures but I would really like to know from a current 997 owner which year or model I should avoid or buy to to minimise these engine failure stories. I am sure it is not as common as everyone goes on about but I want to keep my next car for a long time and only do about 3k in mileage per year. In your honest opinion, ignoring the turbo and Gt3, which 997 Should I be looking to get and from what recommended specialist? I just want a black one with a manual box with the occasional use with toddlers. Thank you! Skill.

One that has blown already and been Harteched?

Hartech is a long way for me but I will look into it. Has any 997 with the LN engineering refit ever failed? Does the 997 like occasional use? Are the 06,07,08 the safer option?

I didn't mean go there, but buy one being sold that has already blown and been treated by them to ensure it doesn't re-occur You could buy a high miler and get it treated yourself but the 25k budget is a bit limiting

skillimz said: I am sure you are tired of the endless stories from newbies asking about ims, rms and engine failures but I would really like to know from a current 997 owner which year or model I should avoid or buy to to minimise these engine failure stories. I am sure it is not as common as everyone goes on about but I want to keep my next car for a long time and only do about 3k in mileage per year. In your honest opinion, ignoring the turbo and Gt3, which 997 Should I be looking to get and from what recommended specialist? 997 Gen 1 with OPC warranty 997 Gen 2 996 turbo ...all of which will be a struggle on £25k.

Gen 2 start at 35 If you don't mind a few miles something like this would be top of my list http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

skillimz said: Has any 997 with the LN engineering refit ever failed? Does the 997 like occasional use? Are the 06,07,08 the safer option? 1. Can't answer that, sorry. 2. Short answer, no. These cars are designed to be driven on a daily basis if required. 3. No. The Gen 2's (09 onwards) are the best option.

Trev450 said: 2. Short answer, no. These cars are designed to be driven on a daily basis if required. Can you expand on this please? Im also looking into a 997 and it will only get used at the weekends and maybe once during the week

LivewareProblem said: Trev450 said: 2. Short answer, no. These cars are designed to be driven on a daily basis if required. Can you expand on this please? Im also looking into a 997 and it will only get used at the weekends and maybe once during the week I probably could have articulated this more clearly. I was referring to the fact that if you so desire, a Porsche can be used on a daily basis, unlike some other marques that have high maintenance schedules and depreciate like a falling rock if you put any mileage on them! So long as you use them on a fairly regular basis, warm them up fully, and then drive them hard, they are fine. What they, or any car for that matter, don't like is long periods of inactivity and being driven hard from cold.

for £25k you can get nice 997.1 from a reputable independent with a good warranty for extra peace of mind you can have it checked for signs of major issues e.g. scoring I also understand you can further reduce the risks by opting for a manual 3.6 engine car (tiptronics and 3.8s carry statistically higher failure rates) you can never completely mitigate against the cost of major repairs but you can seriously reduce the (already low) odds, and tell me another junior supercar that you can use every day and doesn't have the potential to cost you £8-10k in short, by the best 997.1 you can find and enjoy to the other question, you can use your 997 every day or occasionally to suit your needs.... but follow the golden rules of avoiding short journeys, changing the oil annually irrespective, and always, always warming up properly before driving hard

newboy997 said: tell me another junior supercar that you can use every day and doesn't have the potential to cost you £8-10k Z4MC similar performance and no big issues, hence prices climbing, get a nice one for high teens.

Crusoe said: Z4MC similar performance and no big issues, hence prices climbing, get a nice one for high teens. each to their own, but for me a Z4 and a 911 are not in the same league for comparison purposes

Lotus Evora then, £25k bottom of the market and holding, basic Toyota mechanicals that shouldn't throw any huge bills.

Until the clutch wears out then its £4k

matjk said: Until the clutch wears out then its £4k £500 for the standard car according to a quick Google http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/56427-c...

Jeez the guy wants help and advice on a 997, having presumably reviewed and discarded the alternatives

Post March 2006 build or 2007 my has the upgraded IMS so that is less likely to fail,so IMHO go 2007my onwards 3.6 and have a borescore done!most likely safest bet otherwise save for a gen2 car.

Thanks Adam. Its true. I am not interested in anything else. Does anyone own a post 2006 997 and did they fit the thermostat and 3rd radiator as advised by some on this forum? Apart from a porsche warranty that only cover ten year cars< are there any other warranties that hold their weight? Am I being too paranoid?

Always save £15k and buy this http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

skillimz said: Thanks Adam. Its true. I am not interested in anything else. Does anyone own a post 2006 997 and did they fit the thermostat and 3rd radiator as advised by some on this forum? Apart from a porsche warranty that only cover ten year cars< are there any other warranties that hold their weight? Am I being too paranoid? Yes my wife has 2008 40k 4S and we love it. No to thermostat and extra rad. We have let the OPC warranty lapse so we can use good Indy - savings on servicing, brakes etc are significant and offset against the unlikely happening. Plus they often do a better job. Just don't buy one without a borescope first. A few cars out there are being moved on for a reason.

Why not speak to a Porsche specialist like 911Virgin; they'll only buy in cars they're happy with having done the necessary checks. I also believe that for an extra £500 you can get a 1 year warranty which will cover engine & gearbox faults at their own risk. They're a friendly bunch so worth a phone call for a chat. Good luck.

carcrazypop said: Why not speak to a Porsche specialist like 911Virgin; they'll only buy in cars they're happy with having done the necessary checks. I also believe that for an extra £500 you can get a 1 year warranty which will cover engine & gearbox faults at their own risk. They're a friendly bunch so worth a phone call for a chat. Good luck. Wise advice.

drmark said: Wise advice. Seconded.

avoid the 997 if you can. get a 996 Turbo maybe with the Metzger engine. that is the only way to be sure. or get a 997 non S with a rebuilt engine. will be an older car than the 997 but will go like the clappers. don't worry about mileage if all the books and stamps check out.

Correction to Daschin- avoid n/a gen 1 997 only surely And why can no one spell Mezger on here? Rest is spot on as I mentioned above already

Why force the idea of the 996 turbo as being the cheap reliable alternative? They can throw up some huge maintenance bills, more so than a Carrera. Besides he wants a 997 Choose carefully and buy from a decent independent. I bought a 997 C4S last June. In January it went in for suspected bore scoring. It was fixed under warranty AND by hartech no less. So I was a little put out when it happen but now I have a solid car which I know is good. All pros in my opinion and you could consider more desirable/ saleable when it comes to selling.

DasChin said: avoid the 997 if you can. get a 996 Turbo maybe with the Metzger engine. that is the only way to be sure. or get a 997 non S with a rebuilt engine. will be an older car than the 997 but will go like the clappers. don't worry about mileage if all the books and stamps check out. Cheers mate. I hear this quite a bit. Very annoying this ims issue as I appreciate you can get problems in any car but do Porsche not warranty cars after ten years old? I will give the specialist mentioned a call and see how far my budget can stretch.

Porkster said: Why force the idea of the 996 turbo as being the cheap reliable alternative? They can throw up some huge maintenance bills, more so than a Carrera. Besides he wants a 997 Choose carefully and buy from a decent independent. I bought a 997 C4S last June. In January it went in for suspected bore scoring. It was fixed under warranty AND by hartech no less. So I was a little put out when it happen but now I have a solid car which I know is good. All pros in my opinion and you could consider more desirable/ saleable when it comes to selling. Shame there is not a hartech in london.

Correct no P warranty after 10 years

I sold my 2005 (55 reg) 911 C2S to an independent who then sold it for 26k in January. It had just under 50k in the clock. The car was in excellent condition inside and out and was always dry stored. I did some research on the bearing issue and managed to cross reference my engine number against a data base and proved that I was someway outside of the production period for the smaller problem bearing. My understanding is that most gen 1 Carerra S cars have been fitted with the upgraded bearing which as far as I'm aware has not had any recorded issues of failure. Mine never dropped any oil in the 2 years I had it and really the main area of worry would be bore scoring. I had the Hartech thermostat conversion done on mine and I also had the oil changed yearly, despite only covering around 6k per annum. I'd be lying if I said that it never concerned me during the ownership period, but I reckon I spent around half of the cost of a warranty in bills for each year I owned the car, but as with all things in life, there is always the risk of something big going wrong and my advice would be to buy from an independent and squeeze/upgrade a 12 months warranty out of them.

Bought a 56 plate 997 C2 in July '14 for £25k from Portiacraft. Truly wonderful machine that has not missed a beat in over 10k miles. When I was looking, 997s diminished in quality markedly below £24k. £15-20k will buy an excellent 996 C2 but running costs can be comparatively high with the more leggy examples. In 2003, I bought a 996 that had done 60k and it cost me a lot for the 3 years of ownership. Good luck with the search - 996 and 997s are great cars and good value at the moment when you look at older Porsches these days!

skillimz said: Shame there is not a hartech in london. I bought my car from Sussex, the warranty was with the dealer. When the work was undertaken the engine was removed and sent to hartech.

hi, i bought an 2007 basalt black 3.6 C2 a month ago. She' fantastic! only done 42k. I had a minor service done as soon as i could get her into Jasmine porsche (my indy). no issues whatsoever. i've been thinking whether to get the LTT but not sure it's needed for normal road use & she won't be going on a track. I've been in 997 S & unless you have a thing for red calipers & white dials don't bother. by all accounts the 3.6 is less likely to fail. the car brings a big smile every time i get in it post a pic. when you get the car & good luck.

vernz said: I did some research on the bearing issue and managed to cross reference my engine number against a data base and proved that I was someway outside of the production period for the smaller problem bearing. My understanding is that most gen 1 Carerra S cars have been fitted with the upgraded bearing which as far as I'm aware has not had any recorded issues of failure. Interesting. Never heard of this database, where did you get it from, and did Porche confirm your premis? Was the upgraded bearing a recall, as still hear regularly on here of engine issues which in theory shouldn't happen if they have all had a recall that is effective?

Just bought my first 911, a 2003 996 C4S. If you were to follow the guidance of the doom and gloom stories (apologies to anyone who has suffered a 996/997 meltdown) then why would anyone buy one! They are all great cars and obviously a few have their particular foilbles! I read up as much as I could, asked indies etc and just took the view to take my time and find the best I could for my budget. Weigh up the cheaper end of the spectrum with having a reserve put aside for any problems and lets be honest, that is prudent for any older performance car that you buy, not just a porsche, against spending more at OPC/Indie and having the protection of a warranty in the first year/s of ownership. Bought mine from Paragon and I can thoroughly recommend them. All of their cars are superb and come with the peace of mind of a full Paragon warranty. Looking forward to driving mine, already fallen in love with those sexy wide hips in the mirrors (oo'er missus);) Most of all just enjoy whatever you buy, things might go wrong, they might not, c'est la vie Here's mine 2003 C4S, Manual, Guards red, Black leather, Sports seats, PCCB, 45000miles

matjk said: Until the clutch wears out then its £4k £3k .

blueg33 said: £3k . why is it so much for a clutch on this car??

Engine out plus not many indies seem to do it. Not sure why they didn't design it so it could be done with engine in

Go for a 2006 997 3.6 manual running on 18's with no PASM with a few miles on the clock to fit your budget. According to respected Porsche expert (I think it was Peter Morgan?) it's the strongest Gen1 engine and when I had a go in one I wondered why I bothered with an 3.8S model at the time as the engine was sweet at you like, great exhaust note even without PSE and a nice ride and handling balance. With less power than the S you get to rev it more often which is also nice.

Daz65 said: Just bought my first 911, a 2003 996 C4S. If you were to follow the guidance of the doom and gloom stories (apologies to anyone who has suffered a 996/997 meltdown) then why would anyone buy one! They are all great cars and obviously a few have their particular foilbles! I read up as much as I could, asked indies etc and just took the view to take my time and find the best I could for my budget. Weigh up the cheaper end of the spectrum with having a reserve put aside for any problems and lets be honest, that is prudent for any older performance car that you buy, not just a porsche, against spending more at OPC/Indie and having the protection of a warranty in the first year/s of ownership. Bought mine from Paragon and I can thoroughly recommend them. All of their cars are superb and come with the peace of mind of a full Paragon warranty. Looking forward to driving mine, already fallen in love with those sexy wide hips in the mirrors (oo'er missus);) Most of all just enjoy whatever you buy, things might go wrong, they might not, c'est la vie Here's mine 2003 C4S, Manual, Guards red, Black leather, Sports seats, PCCB, 45000miles That looks fantastic, I really rate Paragon as well, top place and full warranty for a year.

If a 997 has had the Hartech rebuild I'm guessing the engine will never suffer the same fate?

A couple of options: if you don't mind a tiptronic: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... or a 3.6: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...