991 GT3 whooped by 991 Turbo S Silverstone yesterday - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Awaits backlash...

One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11

TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11 Sorry if I'm being slow but what was Anglesey Gate?

Again, I am not surprised. Turbo has a lot more torque and better traction, and no doubt handles probably as well [ I have not driven either ] Be interesting to see a comparison at a tight twisty track, like Cadwell etc, I suspect the Turbo will still come out on Top. IMO the GT cars need to be smaller and lighter with 500 bhp

Skittles001 said: Sorry if I'm being slow but what was Anglesey Gate? The timed test where the turbo beat the GT3 round Anglesey.

DMC2 said: Skittles001 said: Sorry if I'm being slow but what was Anglesey Gate? The timed test where the turbo beat the GT3 round Anglesey. Yes, there is a thread on here with the links to the YouTube clips. A tight and twisty track, and the Turbo monsters a Speciale, as well as demolishing the GT3 lap time. The difference in initial list price possibly demonstrates the performance difference, but the prices today of both cars dont add up if all factors are considered? The market does funny things at times.

DMC2 said: Awaits backlash...

TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? It shouldn't be a surprise that, in certain conditions and on some tracks, the Turbo S will be as fast or faster than the GT3 - the power-to-weight is very similar for both cars and of course the Turbo has the benefit of 4WD. Whether the Turbo S can do it consistently rather than just for a few laps before needing to stop is less clear, although may not be relevant. As we are frequently told, for most people it is about enjoyment rather than ultimate lap times, so perhaps that should be considered too?!

When I choose a car these days I generally look for a nice interior, a pleasing odour inside the cabin and a curbside image that resonates with the deepest recesses of my persona.

Could Porsche be trying to position the Turbo as the top dog to pave the way for their new Turbo engined 991 Replacements?

TrackTwit said: Yes, there is a thread on here with the links to the YouTube clips. A tight and twisty track, and the Turbo monsters a Speciale, as well as demolishing the GT3 lap time. The Turbo S lap time being in the dry, whereas the GT3 lap time being in very wet / greasy conditions...?!

sidicks said: TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? It shouldn't be a surprise that, in certain conditions and on some tracks, the Turbo S will be as fast or faster than the GT3 - the power-to-weight is very similar for both cars and of course the Turbo has the benefit of 4WD. Whether the Turbo S can do it consistently rather than just for a few laps before needing to stop is less clear, although may not be relevant. As we are frequently told, for most people it is about enjoyment rather than ultimate lap times, so perhaps that should be considered too?! Yes and for this reason I have a 991 RS on order, I believe it will provide me with bigger smiles than a Turbo S or GT3, but i must admit that smile could go very quickly if i get passed on track by a Turbo S! If the Trubo S can do this lap after lap, the tyres and brakes not melting, then with the additonal interior plush it could be the machine to have. I am genuinely hoping the RS will be so much fun and be so addictive that out right speed will not be a factor for me, but hey i guess we all love the 'speed rush' element of these things if we are totally honest.

isaldiri said: DMC2 said: Awaits backlash...

jackal said: When I choose a car these days I generally look for a nice interior, a pleasing odour inside the cabin So you'd walk on past anything with a christmas tree smelly hanging from the rear view mirror, despite its ability to do a banzai lap of the Nurburgring?

sidicks said: It shouldn't be a surprise that, in certain conditions and on some tracks, the Turbo S will be as fast or faster than the GT3 - the power-to-weight is very similar for both cars and of course the Turbo has the benefit of 4WD. Whether the Turbo S can do it consistently rather than just for a few laps before needing to stop is less clear, although may not be relevant. As we are frequently told, for most people it is about enjoyment rather than ultimate lap times, so perhaps that should be considered too?! I think you mean most or almost all tracks instead of "some" Why would the Turbo S need to stop after a few laps? (edited to add: just read the post below!) The 991 Gt3 is way more fun to drive than the Turbo S but if it's about fun and not lap times, try a 997GT3 or 996 GT3 or something even more "fun" than that. Edited by DT398 on Friday 1st May 12:52

DT398 said: I think you mean most or almost all tracks instead of "some" No, I mean some. Thanks. DT398 said: Why would the Turbo S need to stop after a few laps? For reasons I thought would be obvious - see the post above. DT398 said: The 991 Gt3 is way more fun to drive than the Turbo S but if it's about fun and not lap times, try a 997GT3 or 996 GT3 or something even more "fun" than that. Fun means different things to different people...

So your view of the Turbo S needing to stop after a few laps went from "less clear" in your first post to "obvious" in your second one minutes later. You clearly didn't think they were "obvious" at 11.39. At least I had the humility to ask the question. Edited by DT398 on Friday 1st May 12:58

DT398 said: So your view of the Turbo S needing to stop after a few laps went from "less clear" in your first post to "obvious" in your second one minutes later. You clearly didn't think they were "obvious" at 11.39. At least I had the humility to ask the question. I'm not sure what 'asking the question' has to do with humility... Regardless. 1) 'Less clear' how long the Turbo S could last without needing to stop 2) 'Obvious' why it would need to stop before the GT3. HTH

sidicks said: I'm not sure what 'asking the question' has to do with humility... Regardless. 1) 'Less clear' how long the Turbo S could last without needing to stop 2) 'Obvious' why it would need to stop before the GT3. HTH Nope.

Kav1 said: TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11 TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sonetime. Ahhhhh, hello, glad to see you on here. He was chuffed to nuts with the battle, but still sulking last night that you had the edge!! It clearly shows how capable both cars are, the Turbo S probably continues to surpirse people. We tend to do 5 or 6 days out per season, including a Spa trip at least once. Join in, you would be most welcome. I dont believe I will get my RS much this side of Christmas, so I will be running my Exige V6 430 this season.

TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11 TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps with all the heat build up feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sometime. Edited by Kav1 on Friday 1st May 13:31

Seriously, who cares. Its how it makes you feel, not 2/10ths on a track.

Am I missing something? The Turbo S SHOULD be faster. It has way more power and torque and is not a huge amount heavier. But lots of people don't want a massive turbo sports barge in their garage, no matter how quick it is.

ORD said: Am I missing something? The Turbo S SHOULD be faster. It has way more power and torque and is not a huge amount heavier. But lots of people don't want a massive turbo sports barge in their garage, no matter how quick it is. Turbo S = 560bhp, 1605Kg (DIN) GT3 = 475bhp, 1430Kg (DIN) (manufacturer's published figures) So it has about 17.5% more power and it has about 12.2% more weight. Power to weight ratio is barely 5% difference (349bhp/tonne v 332bhp/tonne).

So, a question for all........... If you had both in the garage, which one would you take on a trip to Spa and the Ring? I am thinking probably GT3 but that could be becuase I have done the whole Turbo thing with loads of track days (and it was a brilliant machine on the track, run with Cups and Alcons) but still need to scratch the GT itch. I have a friend who lives very near me, bought a 991 Turbo S and had it flogged at JZ within 2 weeks, hated it, now running 991 GT3. Perhaps the ultimate Marmite car? Turbo S?

TrackTwit said: So, a question for all........... If you had both in the garage, which one would you take on a trip to Spa and the Ring? I think in previous years, owning both a Turbo and a GT3 (or the same model) would have made perfect sense as they'd provide a quite different experience. I think that in the 991 and to a lesser extent in the 997, their usage overlaps to a greater extent. Owning both (unless you also owned a wide variety of other cars) would make less sense. TrackTwit said: I am thinking probably GT3 but that could be becuase I have done the whole Turbo thing with loads of track days (and it was a brilliant machine on the track, run with Cups and Alcons) but still need to scratch the GT itch. I have a friend who lives very near me, bought a 991 Turbo S and had it flogged at JZ within 2 weeks, hated it, now running 991 GT3. Perhaps the ultimate Marmite car? Turbo S? I have driven both at Silverstone PEC and they were different but both good fun.

sidicks said: Turbo S = 560bhp, 1605Kg (DIN) GT3 = 475bhp, 1430Kg (DIN) (manufacturer's published figures) So it has about 17.5% more power and it has about 12.2% more weight. Power to weight ratio is barely 5% difference (349bhp/tonne v 332bhp/tonne). Fair observation. The main difference is in the torque, which probably explains there being in a second in it 0-100mph. I always forget how absurdly, f king ridiculously fast the 991 GT3 is, let alone for a NA 6 pot! It's a ridiculously rapid car. Both very much under-priced, in my view, and the GT3 is probably underrated (everyone thinks it is awesome, when it is actually in a different league from almost anything else).

#Anglesey Gate - 991 Turbo S in 1.13.6 on the first lap - no support from Porsche, Standard P Zeros

Robbo66 said: Seriously, who cares. Its how it makes you feel, not 2/10ths on a track. EFA

These are 2 stupendous cars and I for one would be delighted to have either in my garage. It never ceases to amaze me that someone's enjoyment of either around a track (or anywhere really) becomes a huge disappointment because someone else in the other has went a fraction quicker. Unless you are actually in a race then who gives a toss !! The fact that Porsche still makes cars like this and at (relatively) bargain prices should be a reason to celebrate not bicker. Rant over.

sidicks said: ORD said: Am I missing something? The Turbo S SHOULD be faster. It has way more power and torque and is not a huge amount heavier. But lots of people don't want a massive turbo sports barge in their garage, no matter how quick it is. Turbo S = 560bhp, 1605Kg (DIN) GT3 = 475bhp, 1430Kg (DIN) (manufacturer's published figures) So it has about 17.5% more power and it has about 12.2% more weight. Power to weight ratio is barely 5% difference (349bhp/tonne v 332bhp/tonne). Porsche tell me power to weight ratio is almost identical between the 2, it's an open secret the GT3 is within a knat's whisker of 500bhp 475hp is very conservative.

TrackTwit said: Kav1 said: TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11 TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sonetime. Ahhhhh, hello, glad to see you on here. He was chuffed to nuts with the battle, but still sulking last night that you had the edge!! It clearly shows how capable both cars are, the Turbo S probably continues to surpirse people. We tend to do 5 or 6 days out per season, including a Spa trip at least once. Join in, you would be most welcome. I dont believe I will get my RS much this side of Christmas, so I will be running my Exige V6 430 this season. Sounds great - let me know when you guys are out next would be up for tagging along. My 991RS is here in Sept, sold my 991GT3 too early with the trackday season here it'll have to be the Turbo S now! Exige I here goes very well will be good to see that. Who was the chap in the frozen grey M3?

I Kav1 said: TrackTwit said: Kav1 said: TrackTwit said: One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer! After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11 TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sonetime. Ahhhhh, hello, glad to see you on here. He was chuffed to nuts with the battle, but still sulking last night that you had the edge!! It clearly shows how capable both cars are, the Turbo S probably continues to surpirse people. We tend to do 5 or 6 days out per season, including a Spa trip at least once. Join in, you would be most welcome. I dont believe I will get my RS much this side of Christmas, so I will be running my Exige V6 430 this season. Sounds great - let me know when you guys are out next would be up for tagging along. My 991RS is here in Sept, sold my 991GT3 too early with the trackday season here it'll have to be the Turbo S now! Exige I here goes very well will be good to see that. Who was the chap in the frozen grey M3? He is one of our regular attendees, he does most of the organising. He can get that M3 around quite quickly. Well done in securing an RS slot, one of the lucky few, what colour you going for?

For me, it's just nice to read people are loving the new stuff Porsche produce. I get fed up with the cynical comments that Porsche have 'sold out'

Kav1 said: Porsche tell me power to weight ratio is almost identical between the 2, it's an open secret the GT3 is within a knat's whisker of 500bhp 475hp is very conservative. Indeed, but a similar issue applies to the Turbo's 560bhp...!!

TrackTwit said: or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo? Not really - it's a popular misconception, normally propagated by GT3 fan-boys in a bid to prop up values.

All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks.

Magic919 said: All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks. Which tracks would a GT3 be quicker over 10 straight laps than a Turbo S?

Magic919 said: All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks. Why the obsession with Torque when the GT3 revs to 9,000rpm?

sidicks said: Why the obsession with Torque when the GT3 revs to 9,000rpm? peak power is long gone before 9k

TrackTwit said: Magic919 said: All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks. Which tracks would a GT3 be quicker over 10 straight laps than a Turbo S? No idea.

keep it lit said: peak power is long gone before 9k 8,250rpm. The point is still relevant!

Perhaps the next GT2 RS will be the stand out car, all of the best bits of the GT3 with the grunt of a Turbo. It will probably have at least 600bhp and rev to c8,000 rpm. I would buy one without doubt. Will they make it though?

sidicks said: keep it lit said: peak power is long gone before 9k 8,250rpm. The point is still relevant! go on then why

what a load of s te

It was nice to hear from both sides of the fence and it's all very friendly. It's everyone else keen to turn it into an argument! I got to drive a Turbo S for a morning on road and track and was massively impressed. The issue was that it was capable, but not involving. The GT3 is an event just tootling down the road. Certainly, if you wanted to be The Ronin and are just in it to beat people, then strap a set of Cups on a Turbo S and it sounds like you'll be king of the track day.

hondansx said: It was nice to hear from both sides of the fence and it's all very friendly. It's everyone else keen to turn it into an argument! I got to drive a Turbo S for a morning on road and track and was massively impressed. The issue was that it was capable, but not involving. The GT3 is an event just tootling down the road. Certainly, if you wanted to be The Ronin and are just in it to beat people, then strap a set of Cups on a Turbo S and it sounds like you'll be king of the track day. But if that's your goal, buy a 996 turbo and spend £50k on tuning and suspension and annihilate both cars. Playing Mr Big Dick on track shouldn't be what any stock Porsche is about.

But it is. Any one on here who has a new 991 GT3 or Turbo S could easily fund a season's worth of racing in something like an MX5 and would have way more fun, learn much more about driving and probably make some friends too.

Doesn't seem to be a lot in it? http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/porsche_911991_...

Alpinestars said: Doesn't seem to be a lot in it? http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/porsche_911991_... As mentioned earlier i thread ... Not a lot in it at all. I'd say on most circuits these pair are hard to split !

stewart rix said: jackal said: When I choose a car these days I generally look for a nice interior, a pleasing odour inside the cabin So you'd walk on past anything with a christmas tree smelly hanging from the rear view mirror, despite its ability to do a banzai lap of the Nurburgring? Where is this Nurburgring of which you speak ? Is there a nice beach there and some sun loungers where one can recline and osmotically absorb the surrounding tranquility and sense of calm ?

Kav1 said: As mentioned earlier i thread ... Not a lot in it at all. I'd say on most circuits these pair are hard to split ! And as KAV1 said in his very first post... "I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels BUILT FOR THE TRACK where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day" This is the key here. If the turbo was 10 seconds a lap quicker I still would want to be in the 991 GT3 too. I recently had a 991 Turbo S for a weekend and although it was a massive improvement over the 997 Turbo (A car I sold within weeks of delivery) it was still very much a road car and one that after an hour I was a bit bored of. 5000 miles in my 991 GT3 so far and still every moment in it is exciting and rewarding. Edited by 5517 on Monday 4th May 10:58

5517 said: Kav1 said: As mentioned earlier i thread ... Not a lot in it at all. I'd say on most circuits these pair are hard to split ! And as KAV1 said in his very first post... "I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels BUILT FOR THE TRACK where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day" This is the key here. If the turbo was 10 seconds a lap quicker I still would want to be in the 991 GT3 too. I recently had a 991 Turbo S for a weekend and although it was a massive improvement over the 997 Turbo (A car I sold within weeks of delivery) it was still very much a road car and one that after an hour I was a bit bored of. 5000 miles in my 991 GT3 so far and still every moment in it is exciting and rewarding. Edited by 5517 on Monday 4th May 10:58 No doubt for me GT3 is the most exciting and rewarding of the pair. Having owned 996 and 997 generations of Turbo (s) and GT3 on average a-b roads the Turbo was always the quicker car (just) but on track GT3 would always be a good bit faster. This 991 generation however there really is nothing between GT3 and Turbo S on circuit , given the extra weight of the Turbo it's just an engineering masterclass from Porsche that they've been able to achieve this.

Turbo S is soomuch better than I expected on track. Very balanced, very mid engined and the traction is absolutely superb. Spa in the wet was hilarious. After that tight hairpin on to home straight just plot through the gears from second and demolish even race cars in wets. There is loads of feedback through the wheel and it's an exciting car to drive and drive fast. It's biggest weakness are the p zeros, stick super sports and cup2s on and it would I'm sure have the grip to match the superb chassis. Despite being exciting it's still a bit safe, you have the hand of God pushing you along at all times. I imagine this is where the gt3 will be more exciting. My spaz on track is a world more exciting, very looking forward to the RS arriving for full on back to back test !

hondansx said: But it is. Any one on here who has a new 991 GT3 or Turbo S could easily fund a season's worth of racing in something like an MX5 and would have way more fun, learn much more about driving and probably make some friends too. That made me chuckle.

Kav1 said: No doubt for me GT3 is the most exciting and rewarding of the pair. Having owned 996 and 997 generations of Turbo (s) and GT3 on average a-b roads the Turbo was always the quicker car (just) but on track GT3 would always be a good bit faster. This 991 generation however there really is nothing between GT3 and Turbo S on circuit , given the extra weight of the Turbo it's just an engineering masterclass from Porsche that they've been able to achieve this. Not really. It's a lot harder to make a super fast turbo, on track or on the road. The GT3 is the masterclass! NA 3.8 engine putting out that power and torque while revving so freely. Astonishing piece of kit. The Turbo is a piece with lots of modern supercars- AWD, two turbos, lots of torque, very heavy... All very familiar stuff.

woppum said: Turbo S is soomuch better than I expected on track. Very balanced, very mid engined and the traction is absolutely superb. Spa in the wet was hilarious. After that tight hairpin on to home straight just plot through the gears from second and demolish even race cars in wets. There is loads of feedback through the wheel and it's an exciting car to drive and drive fast. It's biggest weakness are the p zeros, stick super sports and cup2s on and it would I'm sure have the grip to match the superb chassis. Despite being exciting it's still a bit safe, you have the hand of God pushing you along at all times. I imagine this is where the gt3 will be more exciting. My spaz on track is a world more exciting, very looking forward to the RS arriving for full on back to back test ! But I've seen vids of your track driving and you're a complete Billy!

gerlewis said: Could Porsche be trying to position the Turbo as the top dog to pave the way for their new Turbo engined 991 Replacements? Ey?! Turbo has always been positioned above the GT3. The GT2 is/was the top dog. I think people get confused by this because of the second hand values of GT3's, new the turbo was always more expensive and seen as the flagship Porsche. Personally I doubt any gt3 of any generation was quicker round a track than its equivalent turbo, Porsche may have tried to make out this was the case to appeal to the hardcore track drivers by sticking super sticky rubber on etc. End of the day if you take one to a track the GT3 will always be more fun and provide higher levels of feedback even if it's not as quick - and that's it's purpose, no compromises The turbo gives rear seats, super car performance and a relatively comfortable experience, whether that be on a track or on a b-road in the rain Edited by shantybeater on Wednesday 6th May 19:56

out of interest, what lap times were being achieved? Was it Arena GP? By coincidence, I was trying to find out the Arena production car lap record yesterday, but know one seems to know. Thanks

woppum said: Turbo S is soomuch better than I expected on track. Very balanced, very mid engined and the traction is absolutely superb. Spa in the wet was hilarious. After that tight hairpin on to home straight just plot through the gears from second and demolish even race cars in wets. There is loads of feedback through the wheel and it's an exciting car to drive and drive fast. It's biggest weakness are the p zeros, stick super sports and cup2s on and it would I'm sure have the grip to match the superb chassis. Despite being exciting it's still a bit safe, you have the hand of God pushing you along at all times. I imagine this is where the gt3 will be more exciting. My spaz on track is a world more exciting, very looking forward to the RS arriving for full on back to back test ! +1 on that. Turbo gets the stick for being a "plush fast car" and that was maybe the case for the models up to 991 but the 991 turbo s is an animal. Much more fun than the 997 turbo was. I think porsche needs to roll out a RS version of it and keep the 4wd... it would demolish most hypercars on slower tracks..

kikiturbo said: +1 on that. Turbo gets the stick for being a "plush fast car" and that was maybe the case for the models up to 991 but the 991 turbo s is an animal. Much more fun than the 997 turbo was. I think porsche needs to roll out a RS version of it and keep the 4wd... it would demolish most hypercars on slower tracks.. Problem being Porsches own 918 could very easily be included in that list. We all know how Porsche like to keep 'lesser' models slower than their halo models to keep the pecking order right. I agree a GT2/GT2RS which combines best of both would be pretty awesome....maybe too awesome (actually Turbo RS has a nice ring to it for a stripped out turbo 4wd, and it could be pretty much be built from the current parts bin)

kikiturbo said: +1 on that. Turbo gets the stick for being a "plush fast car" and that was maybe the case for the models up to 991 but the 991 turbo s is an animal. Much more fun than the 997 turbo was. I think porsche needs to roll out a RS version of it and keep the 4wd... it would demolish most hypercars on slower tracks.. Some serious aero, sticky tyres, 4wd no RWS... Would be an animal. I have my name down for the gt2 but to be honest that would scare the s t out of me !

PorkFan said: Problem being Porsches own 918 could very easily be included in that list. We all know how Porsche like to keep 'lesser' models slower than their halo models to keep the pecking order right. I agree a GT2/GT2RS which combines best of both would be pretty awesome....maybe too awesome (actually Turbo RS has a nice ring to it for a stripped out turbo 4wd, and it could be pretty much be built from the current parts bin) I think I'll roll my eyes at that one. The 918 has oodles more power and torque and probably a more advanced AWD system and other systems. A GTRS might be a different question, as Porsche could conceivably give that enough power for it to slay the 918 (if they were so minded, which they won't be )

woppum said: Some serious aero, sticky tyres, 4wd no RWS... Would be an animal. I have my name down for the gt2 but to be honest that would scare the s t out of me ! Why no RWS?

5517 said: Why no RWS? Sorry typo... And RWS !

PorkFan said: I agree a GT2/GT2RS which combines best of both would be pretty awesome....maybe too awesome (actually Turbo RS has a nice ring to it for a stripped out turbo 4wd, and it could be pretty much be built from the current parts bin) exactly... gt3RS body/aero, turbo S drivetrain with, ahh, 650 HP, cup tires and RS brakes and suspension... add in some new tricks (CF propshaft ? ), and you get an instant classic. I agree that the RWD is a more "pure" platform, but 4WD has it's advantages in real world.. after all, one of the reasons 918 is so good with respect to other hypercars is 4WD..

kikiturbo said: exactly... gt3RS body/aero, turbo S drivetrain with, ahh, 650 HP, cup tires and RS brakes and suspension... add in some new tricks (CF propshaft ? ), and you get an instant classic. I agree that the RWD is a more "pure" platform, but 4WD has it's advantages in real world.. after all, one of the reasons 918 is so good with respect to other hypercars is 4WD.. I hope by "real world" you mean race tracks mA car that fast would be utterly unusable on public roads! I bloody love the GT3 for what it represents - an old-fashioned idea (free and high revving NA engine and RWD) executed with modern electronics, etc and engineering precision. But I expect that I would find it far too fast. A proper GT2RS doesn't bear thinking about for speed

I thought the GT2 RS was a homoglation car? Surely that would rule 4WD out?