61 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHIMS Bearing Failure & Advice
Leading reported evidence
Repair by someone proficient
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Unless you have driven it to death the engine can be repaired by someone proficient with these engines for a reasonable rate.
Leading evidence: 'Repair by someone proficient' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'ims tube has been damaged' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check rennlist as a distraction' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Replace engine, non dealer, is always a hard resell
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
A car with a replaced engine, non dealer, is always a hard resell.
Replace exterior is in very good shape and the interior
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The exterior is in very good shape and the interior was replaced last year with brand new stock seats at $8,000.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
He put a low mileage used engine in the car and sold it, then had me finish the 3.8 for another car at a later date..
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I'd start check with local independent shops to see what they can do (if you're not sure, your local Porsche Club can help identify reliable shops--and sometimes individual members that actively work on the engines/transmissions).
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
61 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T124918Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
This is my first time to this forum and I'm looking for some quality advice from Porsche owners. I bought a 2002 Carrera convertible about 2 years ago. It is my first Porsche and loved it from the moment I drove it home. It has only 30,000 miles on it now after the 2 years I have had it.
A couple weeks ago after driving it home, all the oil leaked out of the bottom of the engine onto the garage floor. I had it towed to a motorsports garage and they showed me the metal shavings in the oil pan and educated me on the dreaded IMS bearing and its failure. I was told I needed a new engine. Quite a pill to swallow considering I figured it had only had 30,000 miles on it.
Yesterday I towed it to a more advanced Porsche shop and they removed the transmission and confirmed that the bearing failed and that I do indeed need a motor replacement. Rebuilt motors from Porsche are $20,000 uninstalled.
I would like to know if it is worth it to replace this motor or just sell it as is.
I would very much consider replacing the motor if I knew of a reputable shop to get one from at a fair price. I have looked extensively online at some places and have read horror stories of guys getting ripped off from some of these dismantlers. I really do not have over $20,000 to put back into this and I do not feel it would be worth it to do so. I suppose another option would be to locate a used motor, but I do not want a repeat of this problem.
If the other option to sell it as is and move on, what is the best way to try and sell it? The exterior is in very good shape and the interior was replaced last year with brand new stock seats at $8,000.
Sorry for the long post, any and all advice is appreciated.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. To keep the car and fix it or sell it as is tends to be a very personal choice.
From a finance perspective, it is best to cut your losses and run. Keep in mind you car in it's current condition (with every other aspect of the car being perfect) is worth less than $10K.
There are some folks looking for 996s with blown engines so they can make track cars. I don't know if you car would as desirable for that application (being a convertible).
Sorry you didn't find our site before you had a problem.
Good Luck.
Did you hear any banging or clanging before the oil dropped out on the garage floor? I find this a hard pill to swallow the same as you did. If this had happened to mine I wouldn't go within a million miles of a 996 Porsche again. Sell the carcass and move on. What was the reason the car needed new stock seats last year? Quite honestly I think you are pulling our pissers. First time on this forum with this crap. Hey Mark you can delete this if it suits you. I speak my mind.
Yes, I did hear a clanking as I was driving about 2 blocks from home before the oil dropped out. I wish I had been on this forum earlier and been informed of this bearing. I would have definitely been more proactive to prevent it.
The car needed new seats last year because it was parked outside with the top down and a thunderstorm came through and rained on the seats. Insurance covered the cost.
First time on this forum because I'm curious what other owners would do in this situation. When your in a bad situation you try and reach out to others who may help or assist you. If I opt to put a new motor in, I would love to have a referral to a shop that other Porsche owners are comfortable with and can give a good referral too.
If you do decide to replace the motor don't buy a factory replacement. Call Jake Raby at Flat 6 innovations. He has more experience with these engines than almost anyone. I think he mentioned recently on FB that he has reconstructed (don't ask for rebuilt, he doesn't do "rebuilt") starting at $18K.
He has a delivery truck driving all over the U.S. and they can swing by and take your 996 to his shop in GA.
I've got a 4500 mile 2004 996 engine for sale.
On the flip side -- I might be interested in buying your roller as is.
Where are you located?
Either way
PM or email me ([email removed]) if you are interested,
Mike
As a DIY for a rebuild (reconstruction), does anyone know the parts costs? I would assume, along with the other pieces parts, new valves, and a skilled macnine shop to check the seats and faces.
Just depends on how much collateral damage. The valve problems
are pretty easy to imagine.
What is a little more concerning is other collateral damage.
More than likely the IMS tube has been damaged.
It is also possible that the oil pump housing has been damaged.
The far end of the IMS tube rests in a recess of the oil pump.
I have seen when the IMS bearings fail, the tube wobbles
and the hip joint of the far end gets bored out by the IMS tube
damaging both. In extremes -- I could see where the case gets
damaged.
It is also possible that the chain tensioner paddles has been damaged.
You should inspect the IMS sprockets as well.
If the Tube has been damaged -- it has to come out -- which means
you have to split the case.
All possible DIY, but it ratchets the difficulty level several notches.
Then there is the WYIT costs. Although shouldn't be too bad with a 30K mile
engine.
Mike
That is actually not case damage you are seeing -- but what's left of the oil pump housing,
it "snapped" at the oil pump oring.
We were able to rebuild this engine post IMS failure.
Mike
I'm really not sure how in this day and age folks seems to have such a difficulty in finding replacement 996 engines. These guys have been advertising on EBay for ages ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-996-...ht_1413wt_1160
$7500 fully rebuilt, fully installed, fully warrantied. Just sayin
I can't tell you about the engines on Ebay, but independent shops have been rebuilding the M96 engines for some years now.
Raby is a high quality, high expense option. I'd start check with local independent shops to see what they can do (if you're not sure, your local Porsche Club can help identify reliable shops--and sometimes individual members that actively work on the engines/transmissions).
Not to rain on the parade -- but the listing is for a 3.4L -- and claims
to be compatible with a 2002 --
However, 2002's came with 3.6L with dual variocam.
It also says that if your core is not rebuildable there is a $3500 charge.
Mike
I've actually heard good things about these guys at UFO motorsports. This is the route that I am considering instead of rebuilding my 120k motor myself.
Anyone actually have a motor from them?
To answer the OP's main question, the best way to look at it is the way an economist would: The cost of a new engine returns in the form of future utility. So, if you don't want to drive a 996 anymore, don't replace the engine. Sell the roller and take the loss. If you do want to keep driving a 996 replace the engine in your own car and don't look back. Either way, you will have paid "too much" for your Porsche, but at least in the latter scenario every year of pleasurable use reduces the premium you paid, and you have a car you know you can trust.
The situation sucks, but there's some liberation in realizing that there's no magic way to undo the cost.
There is just not enough information here to know exactly what needs repairs. Spend a couple hours more on it and do a leakdown on it. Did the envine run when you shut it diwn because of the oil leak? Did the oil come from the IMS flange? Did the IMS bearing middle carrier snap? Have the IMS flange pulled and look at the bearing. Some mechanics are too fast to throw in the "need another engine" line. Get a really good and educated diagnosys before deciding what the next step is.
People have refered to the noise as "the death rattle". The engine needs to be fully disassembled & inspected for any salavageable parts since the scrapenal metal was circulated thruout the engine.
Sorry to hear about your engine. If you like your car, I would at least consider a low mileage used engine and if you install the LN bearing kit before you put the used engine in your car then you probably have a pretty reliable long term solution - and your 996 will be worth more than other cars without the updated bearing. The bearing is about $ 600. and there is very little labor to install it if the engine is already out of the car. You may or may not want to consider a clutch at the same time as you are probably about 50% of the way to a clutch replacement. Another thing you might want to consider is to file a complaint with PCNA. The louder and angrier the better. They know about this issue all too well and have offered assistance outside of the warranty as goodwill. You are at a disadvantage because of the age of your car but you might get something out of them due to the low mileage. Good luck.
From what I can tell, they are totally unrelated. The UFO guys came up on another board and had positive comments. I would thoroughly check them out before I pulled the trigger, however.
If your engine can be repaired, do that. Unless you have driven it to death the engine can be repaired by someone proficient with these engines for a reasonable rate. Even with repair costs and collateral damage you will still be way ahead fixing what you have, rather than buying some unknown beast thats probably worse than what you have.
Trust me, the used engine and cheap, half *** rebuilds are liabilities. If you'd like to talk to people who have had disastrous experiences with that, email me and I'll send you some email addresses of those who want to share experiences with you.
Until a couple of years ago junkyards and less than reputable shops hadn't figured out how to assemble the engines so most engines on the market were unmolested. Today they have learned just enough to patch things up and sell them as "used motors with 50,000 miles that came from a car hit in the front". In reality they have heads from two different engines, cams from 4 different engines and etc. Be especially fearful from anyone who just sells you a "used motor" but wants your old one as a core.. They want it as a core so they can cannibalize it and use its parts to integrate with 3 or 4 more engines to create a smorgasbord that runs.
There are two articles on my site that you need to read, both are a reality and I can get you in touch with either of the parties that got screwed in the deal. The first link is the story written by a Rennlist member thats sometimes active on this forum.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/brok...a-bad-decision
The second one is revealing because the person who ripped this guy off is still actively selling engines under assumed identities. The lengths this guy went to cover his tracks is unreal, but we still busted his ***.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/used-engine-article
That said, I have a long time customer (known him for over 20 years) that has one of my Stage 1 (3.6 based) big bore 3.8 engines for sale. The engine is brand new and was never installed in his car; he had me start to build the engine but then decided he wasn't going to keep the car forever. He put a low mileage used engine in the car and sold it, then had me finish the 3.8 for another car at a later date.. He gave up looking for a car and bought an '83 SC and has no use for the engine now. He paid 20K to me, but he priced it to someone at 16.5K to unload it. I think it is still available, I could get anyone in touch with him directly as I stay away from deals like this since I only work with the original purchaser of my engine.
Anyway, lots more choices out there than their used to be.. For many years we were the only game in town with these engine and the crazy thing is we were selling our fully reconstructed packages for 15-18K way back when a brand new Porsche engine was 5-7K... Today we have near the same prices, but the factory engines have tripled with core charges that can exceed the cost of the engine, or car. With zero advertisement other than our site we maintain a 6 month backlog with more work than we can handle in our low volume high quality approach. Not for everybody and the only guy that appreciates what we offer is the one who loves his car enough to spend more on the engine than the car is worth; because he loves it more than money. More of those guys out there than you'd ever dream about..
And remember- The best warranty is the one that you never have to use. Text on a piece of paper won't keep the engine from failing and most are virtually worthless ways of giving the purchaser a false sense of security.
Not trying to sell you on anything that we do, just trying to shed some light on the fact that the quickest way to lose your *** on these cars is to try and save money.You are better off selling the car broken than wasting money on a junkyard solution. Like txhokie4life, we also pay cash for broken cars via certified check in two days.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/comp...hase-worksheet
As always, thank you Jake for staying on the straight and narrow when it comes to information on this frustrating, infuriating, and very expensive problem.
I'd pump it down the road. A car with a replaced engine, non dealer, is always a hard resell.
Alternatively, the eBay engine?
But, I doubt costs would stop at 7500.
Hurdi- I recall you came on a bit strong when I had my IMS failure. Why would you think he is "pulling your pisser?" I know, for me, I found your post insulting back when it happened to me. I think you later apologized but now you do it again. Have some compassion man. It really sucks to have this kind of major problem. I am probably selling my car before long as I still haven't gotten over how horrible it was to have IMS failure after 24 hours of ownership. Be grateful you haven't had it but don't be a db about it.
Need to allow room for all of us - that's what community is all about eh?
Sactown guy - ping me when you are ready to sell - I have been thinking about adding a Cab and if the time ends up being right who knows - it might work out.
I've been on vacation and I missed this whole thread, as I only check Rennlist as a distraction from work...
What happened to the OP? I'm not a conspiracy theorist (or picking sides), but this thread did follow a familiar format...
Anyone know?
Unless these better "reconstructed" engines actually fix the inherent design flaws with this motor, I'd cut bait and go with another Porsche model that does not have these problems. You've (unknowingly) gambled with the 996 and got stung once, already. There are safer options out there in older pre-996/Boxster Porsches or the newer (09+) models, or, even a different brand. Or, maybe a 996 Turbo which doesn't have the IMS problems.
With the 996, lightning can strike twice. I'd move to safer ground.
Uh... no. None of your suggestions (particularly that "other brands" nonsense) provides the amazing balance of performance and value represented by the 996. Some well-proven mechanical updates, fully documented in other discussions, make the cars easily as reliable as any of your suggestions. And these fixes are simply the 21st Century equivalents of updating chain tensioners, installing pop-off valves, adding a head gasket seal, or any of the other updates Porsche owners have done for decades.
And for what it is worth, my 996 costs me far less in annual maintenance than my previous 944S2 or 968.
Going to bump this even though its getting a bit old just in case you are still looking. You put both IMS and RMS in one sentence. Google "tt" and "RMS". I wouldnt take "no" as a gospel answer on that. There are too many first hand accounts of RMS issues on the TT as well. More rare of course, but then again the TT is much more rare than the 996 and they are generally driven less too.
Dont just limit your search to RL (if you are really that concerned), search the other big Porsche forums as well.
That said, I dont really think RMS is a big deal - its just a leaky seal. IMS bearing failure, different story.
Have a look at this thread... interesting info here IMO:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...s-failure.html
if money wasnt an issue:
Put a motor in it from L and E, Period
You just spent 8K on interior... you know its a toy if you did that... you are my kinda guy.
think about it... even if you go get a 997 or something.. you are going to spend a ton of cash. Might as well take your baby and make her king of the hill
But if money it tights...
If you owe nothing on it... Dump it, Go get another
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
