43 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHIMSG Install
Leading reported evidence
Install few weeks ago
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I had the LN double row unit installed a few weeks ago on my 99 tip.
Leading evidence: 'Install few weeks ago' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'little' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Inspect any exisitng debris' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In this case its not just the owner that you'll be talking to, its also the guy that developed the entire system, installed the first one and carried out all the testing.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I had the IMS bearing retrofit installed more than three years ago, when my car had only about 90,000km on it.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I did the install over the winter and it was not bad at all, the only issue I ran into was the cable being too short but Jake sent me an extension and it arrived within 2 days and I was in business.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
(LNE recommends remove and inspect for debris every 10k miles, anyone know that?..yeah, right!) And my oil pan had cracks in it, so I had to order another one.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In this case its not just the owner that you'll be talking to, its also the guy that developed the entire system, installed the first one and carried out all the testing.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I did the install over the winter and it was not bad at all, the only issue I ran into was the cable being too short but Jake sent me an extension and it arrived within 2 days and I was in business.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
43 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Still not as expensive as shipping a 996 engine to Russia!
Just curious, but has anyone had their dealership install an IMS Guardian? If so, I'm curious how much they charged for labor. I've got to bring my C4S in for routine service and I was thinking about asking them to do it while it was up on the lift. Should I anticipate push back since it isn't a factory item? I was initially planning on doing it myself but my life has been crazy hectic this past year and so I haven't really had an opportunity to do the install myself. Ironically, I'm still on the fence about it but since I've got it I can't see a downside to installing it.
-Eric
The only "downside" is if you bought it with the initial groupbuy, you can likely sell it, NIB for more than you paid. They are $389 now. I installed mine, and it was more of a PITA, than I anticipated. Replacing the 4 tie rods was easier. I wanted the button alarm in the right hand side, and all that dash & plastic stuff is a pain to cram all the connections in. Then the supplied cable, with the most direct route I could find to the drain plug was barely long enough. I would have recommended 6-8 more inches. Then locating the rubber plug in the footwell wall of the rear drivers side passenger area was a total PITA, as it is covered in undercoating, so totally camoflauged, and underneath a bodypan shield that has to be removed. Then the dual fuse lug adapter they give you to install at the fuse box is a bit high, and the cover would not snap back on until I trimmed some plastic ribs away. Then, since it makes perfectly sound engineering sense, You really DO want to remove the oil pan, to inspect for any exisitng debris. (LNE recommends remove and inspect for debris every 10k miles, anyone know that?..yeah, right!) And my oil pan had cracks in it, so I had to order another one. None of this is earth shatteringly hard, obviously, and I understand that no aftermarket product can handle every variant, but it was one of those "NOW WTF is going on here" installs. It took me a good 3-4 hours to get it done, PLUS the hassle and waiting, for, and cleaning off the old sealant, of the oil pan issue, and I have a lift! Without a lift, the whole underside thing, would take even longer. Unless the dealer has installed them, you are talking a few hundred bucks, surel more than the IMSG cost you. If you have a trusted, high end, stereo install shop, it would be cheaper to do there, I'd bet, and just have an indie do the oil pan inspection, clean and install.
Just my $0.02
When I installed mine I first put the switch on the left side of the radio and it was obstructed by the steering wheel. Moved it to the right side of the radio so I can see it.
Changing the bearing isn't happening right now. The car has a new clutch and 27K miles on it so there isn't really a reason for me to pull the engine and tranny right now unless I have to.
I spoke to Speedsport Tuning in Danbury today and they said that they installed one for a guy a few months ago. They're a bit out of the way but they said it was a 3.5 hour job and, for what it's worth, the sensor picked up enough debris to trigger a warning a few weeks later and so the owner went ahead and did a bearing replacement. What I'm really curious about is whether the bearing was shot when they pulled it out. After all, it is normal for some debris to be collected in the oil. Unfortunately, the guy I spoke to didn't do the service so he wouldn't have known.
I haven't called the dealer yet to ask them about it.
-Eric
3-4 hours labor is normal if the installer drops the sump, as we heavily recommend..
DO NOT have a dealership install the unit... One dealership charged 900.00 labor to do the job.
Here we charge 700.00 including the 389.00 unit, oil service, sump inspection and etc and we have the install finished in 2.5 hrs.
To date I have responded to 14 IMS Alerts from the IMS Guardian system. These are not representative of all the IMSG Alerts as only 30% of buyers opt for the support phone line that connects directly to me if they have an alert 24/7-365.
When I designed the system it was developed around no engine creating enough normal material to trigger the alarm in a 5,000 mile oil service unless it had elevated levels of ferromagnetic material inside it. I am unaware of any "false alarms" to date. All the "normal" wear items in these engines are plastic, not ferrous metal.
Thanks, Jake. If I hold off on the 30k mile maintenance (since my car won't likely get to that mark until next year) I might just do the oil change and install myself. I might also call another indy that's a little closer to me and see what they say. I don't want to be anyone's guinea pig and pay $900 in labor.
-Eric
I did the install over the winter and it was not bad at all, the only issue I ran into was the cable being too short but Jake sent me an extension and it arrived within 2 days and I was in business. It is a very nice and seamless product, I definitely would not pay $300+ to have someone install this....
I am not sure because only three of those who received the alerts contacted us after the engine was evaluated. Of those three one was a broken timing chain and the other two were IMS bearings. All 3 engines were saved, even the broken timing chain as it was a 5 chain engine with a failing simplex #4 variocam chain.
The thing people don't realize is the fact that the IMSG is a true "Engine Guardian". We probably should have named it that, because thats what we are marketing the system as for other cars and equipment.
If any amount of ferrous material exists in numbers measurable by the IMSG at a 5,000 mile service interval you have a problem thats equal to or even bigger than an IMS Bearing failure. I have documented 23 modes of engine failure, of those the IMSG provides an alert for 9 of them.
Keep in mind that those 14 IMS Alert calls came from those who have purchased our support service. I am sure there are many, many more that haven't been reported to us. Three weeks ago in one of my M96 Engine WTI classes one of the attendees brought up an engine that came to his shop that they saved after the driver received an IMS Alert, and that one was never reported to us. With the systems in service for over a year now we are starting to see more activity with alerts.
No.. We have ONLY had a single request for an extension wire. The kit has 15' of cable, which has been more than enough for everyone else other than the earlier poster in this thread. Its all in the routing through the cabin.
When I install an IMSG I have 3-4' of wire left over~
To date I have responded to 14 IMS Alerts from the IMS Guardian system. These are not representative of all the IMSG Alerts as only 30% of buyers opt for the support phone line that connects directly to me if they have an alert 24/7-365.
Jake I would have thought good business tactics would have included the phone connection with every purchase of the Guardian. No? Unless I am reading your postings wrongly. Is this an option with the sale? If so, is it a free option?
We don't employ any sales tactics. We develop cures for issues that have more demand than we can meet, generally. The only tactics that we use are those required to develop the cure for the problems and we only apply them to engines, not purchasers.
Nope, no need and not the style of the company that I have formed from scratch.
It is an option when the units are purchased directly from us, but not available through re-sellers. It is not free because if it were, it would be abused.
The support package is a 29.95 purchase that must be made as an option during the check out from our online store. If chosen, the buyer will receive a door jamb decal that includes an otherwise non-published toll free number and a serial number for the IMSG unit that is supported. In the event of an IMS Alert the driver shuts the car down, opens the door, dials the toll free number and becomes directly connected to me. They provide their unique serial number and get as much support as necessary to continue on their way, or call a tow truck after I ask them a series of questions and run through a quick system check.
I have answered IMSG support calls at 0300 in the morning from guys on the side of the road 3,000 miles away. If for some reason I am not available the system calls every member of my team until someone answers the call. To date I have only missed one call, because I was on the dyno and could not break my concentration, I called the driver back immediately.
This support system is only for active IMS Alerts, its not for install support, product support or anything other than those in distress on the side of the road with an active IMS Alert.
seems like pretty freakn spectacular customer service imo. where else are you going to get customer emergency support in the middle of the night from the owner?
btw...just ordered the bearing upgrade and its getting installed this coming week
Thanks. In this case its not just the owner that you'll be talking to, its also the guy that developed the entire system, installed the first one and carried out all the testing. I offer this same support for our complete engines, though no one has ever had to use it to date. Thank goodness.
I had the LN double row unit installed a few weeks ago on my 99 tip. The factory bearing that came out 'feels' fine - rolls very smoothly, but it did leak out engine oil for a few days afterward on a paper towel. The seals look new - it appears as if the oil migrated in and around the outer rim area. The oil appeared pretty new - it has none of the issues I have read where people reported the oil leaking out was black and or smelled horrible. My question to Jake is: what are the time lines from engine oil penetration of the seal until bearing destruction? Is there any data on what the avg time frame after the oil gets in or is this just an unknown? The car had 153000km's on it at bearing change out.
We have had customers who experienced all 4 stages of failure within one single oil service interval after having the bearing inspected. This was prior to the IMSR being main stream and before we were selling the kits to the public.
Every bearing is different, just like every scenario and this is another reason why there are no statistics that are real with any of this. What does it all boil down to? Just how lucky you are.
Three people weren't lucky this weekend. Two of those three are inbound.(one from Hong Kong!)
I had the IMS bearing retrofit installed more than three years ago, when my car had only about 90,000km on it. This is what it looked like when they dropped the engine...
Actually the bearing was not leaking and it is fine. I still have it somewhere in my garage. It is just crud inside the bell housing which you see and people mistake it for bearing leak. Since the OEM bearing is a sealed unit, you will not see much leakage before failing.
I wouldn't be too concerned until you know how many "modes of failure" other people's engines have. I admire Jake's work, but that right there is just smart marketing rhetoric.
Or sell everything you own and live under a rock. 'Mode of failure' in engineering terms simply means the loss of intended function. Everything in your life has them, from a blender to a passenger jet. To name a specific number you've observed is interesting, but utterly meaningless without context. Unless someone can tell me how many 'modes of failure' have been observed in a Camry engine, say, I'm going to call this marketing rhetoric intended to get an emotional response... a bit like saying "you'll earn 5x the national average rate on your savings!"
And I say this as a satisfied IMS bearing retrofit customer and a fan of Jake's.
I understand the context here very well, trust me! Probably a little to well....
I'm not saying I am going to sell my car because of the modes of failure, I'm just saying those numbers are scary. That's All.
Honestly that count was before I got my ***** busted daily for sharing the truth.
Got this one today from Hong Kong. IMS Bearing failure in an ROW M97 engine. Its getting the full reconstruction. It cost more to ship this engine to us via Fed Ex air than what the mass producers build complete engines for.. Thats just shipping one way! Still not as expensive as shipping a 996 engine to Russia!
