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YOUR RESEARCHNext car for winter
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the vtm4 issue was actually an issue with the torque converter....a mapping update corrects it quite handily.
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I have heard good things about the Cayenne (used) certain models that have been reliable.
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I just bought a slightly used BMW 2008 X3 3.0si for my wife.
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But please note that the early MDX's used the VTM-4 rear drive system and those seem to have an inordinately high failure rate.
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Hello all,
Looking for a little advice. i have had a Volvo v70 stick as my winter car for the past 15 years and it is time to pass down the food chain.
i am wondering what other people are driving in the winter climes ?
My c4S is not going to be that car.
i prefer a stick, but would also consider an SUV(cayenne?)
Any reccs would be appreciated.
Bill
I drive my C4S in the winter, except in deep snow. We also have a Cayenne. With proper winter tires, it's great. I'll be keeping the Cayenne as my winter vehicle when my wife gets a new SUV (hopefully another Cayenne) next year.
Where do you live, how much snow do you get and what are your needs? I'm a competitive ski racer in CO and often have to haul plenty of gear to far away races, and I don't like to be late.
We have a pair of Audi S8's for these winter tasks - here's mine...
I just bought a slightly used BMW 2008 X3 3.0si for my wife. It has the sport package with lots of M engineering - seats, wheels, suspension, etc. Very nice. The hill descent feature will be great on snowy roads.
Hi all,
budget ... well depends. Definitely not buying anything new. I have heard good things about the Cayenne (used) certain models that have been reliable.
I would like to spend less than 10K. I would like something well-maintained and that has a reasonably good QC record. Would even buy from the US.
I live in Southern Ontario - plenty of snow to contend with. My Volvo was great with the stick and 4 snows.
Thanks for input.
Bill
Hmmm at 10K or less you are pretty limited. I bought a 2003 Land Rover Discovery II with 70,000 miles for 10K a couple years back. White with a handsome black leather interior, full time 4WD. A hell of a car for that $. She has been reliable but requires steady maintenance.
ooops I meant $20,000. I was looking at a 2004 Cayenne S w <20,000 kms. Are there any years to avoid? Still do a PPI on them? That car is listed @ 15,000
Bill
As long as you are cool potentially dropping 5K into the car, than the 04 is OK.
Check out the sticky's on the Cayenne forum. Numerous weak points bit mine had been a generally reliable car and for an SUV it is a great driving vehicle. I do however miss having a manual trans for my daily driver.
They do go through brakes and tires pretty damn fast!
If you find a 2004 that has had the major issues addressed, then it should be very relialbe. My 2004 has roughly 110K miles on the odometer and it has been very good. I've spent money on many of the typical issues, such as: coolant pipes, fuel pump, water pump, coils (reimbursed by PCNA), etc. I agree with Marc on brakes and tires. The Cayenne is a big, heavy vehicle and it burns through them pretty quickly.
My recommendation would be Acura MDX. You could get a good one for $20K and they handle much better than most SUVs while being dependable and cheap to keep. That way you have more disposable income for your Porsche addiction.
yes ill second the mdx...great vehicle. great traction, great handling and drive, good power, nice features inside. no real issues and pretty minimal $$ to maintain (ive spent more on my pcar in the last 3 months than on my mdx in 4 years!) im at 178k now and still drives like new. had a friend in it last week and he was floored that it had that many kms...thought it was only a couple years old too.
Wifey drives a Cayenne and just loves it.
I have taken it out after a snow storm and nothing stops that thing!!!
I have a 4 wheel drive Merc C350 and it has also been absolutely fantastic in inclement weather.
I never get flustered by snow storms anymore.
Pete
I have another opinion..if you plan on keeping it for 15 years like the volvo, I would suggest a newer model of a less premium vehicle if your budget is 20K. If you are stuck on the stick, Jeep or Kia Sorento (probably the best unrated winter beater out there). If you are stuck on the badge, go Cayenne or X5 although a stick may be hard to find.
We just went through this process for a car for my wife here in CO. She has a sales territory that covers Denver - Grand Junction, so lots of snow driving in the winter.
We had an '06 X3 that was great, but a little small for the kids. The X3 was easy on the maintenance budget and was great in the snow. (BTW - we always use snow tires in the winter)
...not a stick though.
There are many Cayenne V6 models with a stick. They also do not have the coolant pipe problem.
Some of them also have nicer "upgrade" packages with PASM and other goodies.
This one is a little more $$$, but is a good example of a "loaded" '08 V6.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...ingId=85399731
We considered that one and lots of others, but ended up buying a 2004 Cayenne S (w/PASM) with 64K miles $19,500 for a last week. We immediately did the coolant pipes for about another $1500 and scored a barely used set of Cayenne wheels with snow tires on them for about $1k, so we are all-in for about $22,000 ready for winter.
Of course, my '99 C4 has a stick and is great in snow until it is deep or deeply rutted which can happen in Denver city since they do not plow the side streets in the city.
You'll be happy with that. Our Cayenne does very well in the snow up in the mountains with the winter tires in place. The only car I've ever driven that felt more stable was our old Audi Allroad Quattro with winter tires. My sons each drive Subaru Foresters, and they do pretty well in CO winters too.
Yes, the MDX's SH-AWD most definitely raises it to the best of the best for front wheel drive based "awd" systems, F/AWD, as it were. But please note that the early MDX's used the VTM-4 rear drive system and those seem to have an inordinately high failure rate. It's currently unclear to me if the SH-AWD system was actually the solution, Acura may have very well have "derated" the Sh-AWD system's full-time functionality in order to extend the life of the driveline components.
Personally I would NEVER recommend even considering ANY front drive based "awd" system, many are there as pretent only (current WRX) with so many much more stable R/AWD systems out there in the market. The nice thing about this new electromagnetically controlled clutch system, F/awd or R/AWD, is that the owner could easily add a switch to fully open(***) the front drive, or even fully CLOSE the front drive when/if road conditions warrant.
Base Cayenne, R/awd would be my first choice. No transfer case, electromagnetic PWM controlled clutch for "on-demand" front driveline energization.
*** No undue driveline stresses, HEATING, inadvertently incured on perfectly dry highly tractive roadbeds.
well thats not entirely accurate. the vtm4 issue was actually an issue with the torque converter....a mapping update corrects it quite handily. dont want to even equate it with an ims issue, but i will, in terms of the hysteria shot around on the acura forums about it.
178k km and trans is as smooth as butter. id buy another '05 no problem.
Hi all,
Thanks for great advice. The V8 Cayenne seems to be more abundantly for sale locally than the V6 model - looking for a well-optioned V6 is a thought. Manual in an SUV not important.
I had never thought about an Audi - but why not. Great looking car although the 8 is a tad hefty for my needs. Possibly the 6. Would want 4WD in a sedan or wagon.
Acura MDX - also now on my radar.
I would even get another newer Volvo if I could get a stick. I also have an S60 (wife's winter vehicle)
Bill
If you could find a 2005 (I believe this was the last year they made it) Allroad Quattro with the 4.2 V8 and a manual transmission, you'd have a winner!
You have
clearly
not been here long enough... In the 18 years I have lived in the Raleigh area there have been many major snowstorms, some which have shut the place down for days. In January 2000 we were frozen tight for almost a week.
Few snowplows, lots of pine trees overhanging power lines, wet and heavy snow, and sunny days after a snow which just melt it enough to freeze that night; it can be bad enough here to make even the NJ transplants happy.
I vote for an Audi. Pick any Quattro in you budget and you will be fine with Michelin Ice tires it will go anywhere. Drive or old 98 A6 Avant through Yosemite in December and it pulled through every form of Ice and Snow. I have been told the A6 Allroad can have issues with the Pneumatic suspension but any car that complex an 10 years old need to be looked over well. The Quattro is a Front driver with full time AWD but I love the way it handed any weather any road condition. An added pulse is the quality of the interior that in our case has worn well for nearly 120000 and 15 years.
Audi Quatro A4 love it great in snow, if it gets deep take the f350.My wifes Rav4 does the job also, she loves it smaller size. The snow hasent been bad the last couple of years but it can be bad here.
I sold my 2008 ML320 Blutec (downsized to an E350 Bluetec). A couple of years ago during Washington, DC's "Snowmageddon", it was only me and the plows out for 3 days it seemed like. It was a beast, got over 30 mpg on the highway and has 400 ft/lbs of torque. If I still needed the room of the ML, I would've gotten another. You can pick up an '07 or '08 fairly cheap...
Call me cheap, but my winter beater is a 2001 Dodge Durango 5.9 R/T. For about 6 grand or less you can get one also. Cheap to fix, who cares if it gets dented...heated seats and leather. 3rd row seating.
I live in Colorado and keep my winter vehicle practical when I can. It has some umph also...
I don't think it is ugly. Cheap, lots of room, and works good for winter.
What a timely topic, I just picked up a new winter "car" for myself this last weekend:
This is what the wife drives (an '08). It's a great car, but the AWD system isn't very good (I come from the Audi world, though, so I'm spoiled).
I had a 2009 outback Turbo - awesome car - I have a winter home up in Mammoth - serious snow country - cops didn't even make me put on chains ( yes in CA it is the law and it is stupid but they all have respect for subbies so no problem!)
I got rid of it when the lease was up so I could get my C4S Cab. Now I use my 2001 F150 Supercrew. Indestructible - cheap to fix - and the benefit of doing some offroading when it gets slushy/muddy.
I think the only things that really matter in a snow car, besides reliability, are ground clearance, AWD or 4WD, and tires. Me, I'd buy whatever I liked so long as I could save back enough money for the best winter tires I can get.
Our farm is in the snowbelt, and over the years there I've had a Discovery, a Range Rover, a Ford and a Toyota pickup (my current ride). All were fine, though I've come to prefer not having a computer make my driveline decisions for me. But honestly, my wife's MINI kicks *** on its Hakkapeliittas until it runs out of ground clearance. My .02, it's hugely about the tires.
