Condenser broken .... leaves ?

<edit> I apologize for the awful spelling of leafs in the subject Hey guys - Ive got a 2005 C4S that still is under a CPO for another 6 months. Here is the situation: 1. Bought the car 18 months ago 2. Last fall, the AC broke ..... I brought it to the dealership and they fixed the AC 3. Last week the AC broke again; I brought it to the dealership. They said they need to take off the side panels to inspect the condenser which will cost me $300 if its not covered under warranty 4. They call me back; tell me there are so many leafs that they have rotted away the condenser and it isnt covered under CPO. Cost to me is $1,350 + $300 for the panels. Here is my question: 1. They assured me there were no leafs there when they sold me the car 2. Is there any possible way that that many leafs can get into the condenser either in 18 months or 9 months (last time they fixed the AC) to rot away the condenser? 3. It seems to be the dealership screwed up and i asking me to pay for their mistakes Thoughts? ALso, any indie recommendations in Greenwich, CT Thx

Sure there is a way but unlikely but you can't prove it, they will blame you for it. What exactly did they fix on that AC?

It's very simple to change the condensers and dryer yourself. Will cost you around $300 for two condensers (OEM) + dryer plus whatever your AC guy charges to evacuate and fill the system. Took me longer to take the bumper off! My ma \in concern you might have a leak in the system, has your dealer assured you that this is not case?

Last year they put dye in the system, so they claim there is no other leak. Just seems so absurd to me; really pissed me off that the dealer is going to stick this to me. Its not the $1,350 cost plus the $300 to remove the bumper; rather its the feeling that I am getting ripped off. I understand these are expensive cars and I have budgetted $1,000 to $2,000 per year in maintenance .... but I want to make sure its 'real'. For example, this dealership has also stuck me with a few hundred dollars of misc. costs in this service that I wasnt aware of.

Do you do your oil services and yearly maintenance there?

If you think your getting screwed You should find another shop!

This is a dumb question, but could you clean things up / out and then go to another dealership that might be relatively close and have them do warranty work?

I would do one of two things...push this up to management and if nothing else, Porsche N.A., as they had to replace/repair it in the Fall of last year. I would tell them how you keep your car (stored in a garage at home, parking garage at work, etc.,) and let them know that common sense dictates that this didn't just happen between when they repaired 9 months ago and today. I would push on them HARD, and I'm assuming they will do the right thing. If that does not work, I would do what BED997 recommends, and take it to another dealership. From my experience, their tech notes are not inter-connected. Good luck, and post back how you resolved this. DS

Leaf doesn't cause condenser to rot. They make it less efficient. There is a leak and they didn't find it because they were sloppy. If they didnt change any parts last time, they just charged it and it leaked again. They should fix it under warranty.

If they said this when you bought the car.. 1. They assured me there were no leafs there when they sold me the car. Without taking the front from the car and removing the condensors, how the hell would they know that? Secondly, you would have had to have driven through Fall and sucked in a lot of leafs along the way. Even then, for the leafs to have rotted and also rotted your condensors, I doubt it very much. They are taking you 'to the cleaners mate' excuse the pun. A load of bull **** or bollux depending on which side of the Atlantic you drive. I removed the front of my car last year and got to the condensors within a half hour and I am no Porsche Mechanic. You cannot get to the condensors and radiators from the side panels to my knowledge anyway. The leafs get sucked in and trapped in between the radiators and condensors either side of the front end of the car. The 996 has two condensors and two radiators so how come one rotted before the other one? I would drag it away from the Stealer and stay away from him in the future.

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1&2) You have to read the terms and conditions of the sale and warranty. Since they are considered the 'experts' on this brand and model they are the ones whom have to prove the 'latent defect' was impossible to determine prior to final sale and after the first ac issue arose. Leaves and debris do not rot away aluminum PPF condensers in 18 months, it takes several years; and by the way it is a common issue with earlier models 993/964, especially in your location. If you need an 'expert' opinion simply pm me. 3) The dealership failed to properly inspect the vehicle, rather simple. Imagine if word arose in the Porsche community that 996/boxsters condensers should all be inspected, or that this dealership is trying to avoid a rather simple solution; eat it an move on.

Quotes source post: 9809534

There doesn't appear to be anything sinister going on and the dealer doesn't sound like it is being dishonest. Leaves among other things collect like crazy in the radiator ducts of these cars. My first years in my Boxster were spent in the midwest and the amount of trash that the radiator ducts collected was amazing. Leaves, to be sure, but papers, cigarette butts, dead insects, straw, cottonwood silk, sand/gravel, and God only knows what else was just packed around the bottom of the condenser/radiatror and the lighter stuff caught between the condenser and radiator. This build up will retain moisture and with the ever present salt (even if you live/drive in a place that doesn't salt the roads in winter) will corrode everything it comes in contact with. Cleaning out the front bumper the radiator ducts is often something that gets neglected by many owners. Part of the problem is some owners believe an oil/filter service is a full service and it is not. (Another thing that gets neglected is the body water drains.) Either I clean out my car's radiator ducts -- even going so far as to remove the bumper cover and carefully separate the condenser/radiator (one pair each side) to remove the considerable trash that collects between them -- or have this done when I take the cars for some service. Most often it is an oil/filter service, which I have done every 5K miles. At this time I ask the techs to blow the stuff out or if it is too built up to remove the bumper cover (and of course offer to pay the extra labor charge) and give the areas a thorough cleaning. Save once -- the 1st time -- since then the stuff is blown away/out without have to resort to the bumper cover R&R. But if this is allowed to build up too much, no matter how clean the area is finally made, this can't undo years of corrosion. Also, as long as the various parts are not manifesting any leaks the A/C condenser/radiator will not be replaced under warranty. My take is the car was in good shape the radiator ducts were clean but due to the previous owners neglect or lack of knowledge, had been exposed to years of build up with the resuting corrosion. You had the unfortunate luck to own the car when the years of corrosion finally made themselves known. The build up that developed while you owned the car probably contributed little to the corrosion but just enough to be the straw that broke the camel's back. It is entirely possible too that even had you kept those areas spotless the damage was done and one or both of these items would have failed at some point. Also, if the condensers are leaking it doesn't have to be from corrosion per se. Sitting where they sit they are subject to being damaged by road debris, rocks, or something else, and anyone who has cleaned the radiator ducts out knows not all stuff in there is soft and fluffy. So it is possible corrosion played no role whatever in the leaks. Sincerely, Macster.

Yeah ... the problem is the dealership assured me that when they sold me the car, 18 months ago with a 24 month CPO, that they had cleaned out that area. So they flat out said that all the damage was done in the last 18 months. I just have a hard time that in 3k miles and 18 months so many leafs can get in there that it corrodes the condenser. And of course they want to stick me with a $1,650 bill to fix the problem. The car had been maintained at the same shop since it was purchased new; so they have all of the records there ..... I just dont see how it can go from zero to destroyed in 18 months

BTW your spelling was correct the first time!! The plural of leaf is LEAVES not LEAFS!

If the condenser(s) is/are a "Parallel Flow" as opposed to a serpentine or tube & fin, it is more likely to fail earlier than the later designs because the wall thickness of the aluminum is thinner. If leaves/leafs (lol) or debris sat against the thin wall aluminum tubing for the period prior to you taking ownership and that time period caused the damage (a latent defect), moisture mixing with debris accelerating the oxidation of the metal, then that is your argument or critique for kinder words. The bottom line is what are the terms and conditions of the written warranty, and as well, what is the integrity of the seller. You could try the mutual approach: you provide the parts and the seller provides the labor.

So the dealership has flat out refused .... dont ask me how I paid $825 for an oil change and fixing a few light bulbs (that I didnt even know where out). Now I have a car with no AC which isnt fun. Can I get some advise on what to do next? 1. Escalate to Porsche NA .... (does this ever work) 2. Try a different dealership 3. Get it done at an independent shop (does this void my warranty? Ive got another 6 months left on the CPO) 4. Hang my head low and pay the $1,650 this shop is telling it will cost me to get it fixed (I see this as highly unlikely) Thanks

Have you tried talking to the General Manager? Have you read the terms and conditions of your warranty?

Yup ... they claim that all of the damage to the condensers occured in the last 18 months (1 fall season on a car that Ive driven less than 3,000 miles since ownership)

Kharz, You are saying you have a dealer certified pre owned vehicle that is still under warranty. Something does not sound 'normal' here in the story line. Lets try to answer the logic this way: Is the vehicle covered by this specific warranty?: http://www.porsche.com/usa/approvedu...oved/warranty/ If 'yes', then what specific exclusion of this warranty is the dealer siting as their reason why the condenser(s) are not covered. Normally when you raise the argument they something like this "Gee Mr. Jones, we are really sorry, but under the terms of the limited warranty on page xx ........" If 'no' then what are the terms and conditions of warranty did you receive? Provide us with the exact text of what components are covered and what are not. Some states have specific consumer protection laws when it comes to automobiles. What state did you purchase this vehicle in. If you resident state is different from the state you purchased the vehicle in advise what state that is as well.