996 GT2 Suspension modification success? - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, Just wondered what can be realistically expected from a 996GT2 after fitting a complete after market suspension kit and geo set up? Do you end up with a vast improvement over the standard car,which would then be very competent on track? I understand the GT2 will never be as good on a circuit as a GT3 but how good can a properly set up 996 GT2 get? Also anyone driven a 997 GT2 on a circuit? How much better than a 996 GT2 25%-40% ? Thanks Win

Define good. Fun or fast? I'd wager that a well set up GT2 driven by a capable race driver would be quicker.

crisisjez said: Define good. Fun or fast? I'd wager that a well set up GT2 driven by a capable race driver would be quicker. GT2 set up correctly for track. GT3 set up correctly for track. Same driver. One outcome.

A well setup GT2 would kick a Gt3's rear end. Even my lardy turbo gives them all a very hard time.

You do realise they both share the same chassis? SM

Ok, so your Stig or Steve Rance level of driver would be quicker in a like for like well set up Gt2 over a GT3 but what about your average Pistonheads enthusiast who's had a couple of Cosworths, M3's, 993's ,964/993/996 Turbo and done approx 5-20 trackdays as opposed to 100 plus track/race days?

Hedge backwards.

supermono said: You do realise they both share the same chassis? Only a 997 GT3 RS shares a chassis with any GT2 and the GT2 always has extra rear mass. Which I am sure you knew, so am puzzled by the statement

Magic919 said: Hedge backwards. Haha

I've been told the 996gt3/2 are the same chassis/suspension. Sure there's weight differences but as far as I understand it, that's all. SM

DiscoColin said: supermono said: You do realise they both share the same chassis? Only a 997 GT3 RS shares a chassis with any GT2 and the GT2 always has extra rear mass. Which I am sure you knew, so am puzzled by the statement The 996 GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis, the only difference being the differences in spring, damper, anti-roll bar rates and tyre/wheel sizes. OP, I've fitted Ohlins 3 way adjustables to a 996 GT2, the transformation was impressive, another ex-contributor to this forum currently runs a car with a self- tailored bespoke Eibach/Bilstein spring damper set up, again the improvements have been substantial. Should you want any further information, do please feel free to PM me, this as it's proving an utterly futile (not to mention thankless and frustrating) task posting an opinion on any PH threads these days.

Thanks Slippy, I'll PM you.

Slippydiff said: The 996 GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis, the only difference being the differences in spring, damper, anti-roll bar rates and tyre/wheel sizes. The wheel size is significant though as it alters the rear track in line with the wider rear bodywork of the turbo based shell. With different rear track, weight, weight distribution and differences affecting pretty much all compliance and roll characteristics I would contend that having common parts does little to assert them being fundamentally the same But the significant part is that while you can essentially give the GT2 similar handling characteristics, the nature of the engine and weight distribution calls for a decidedly different approach to driving it. I was in a conversation with Mike Wilds earlier this year and he reckoned that managing the mass of the car was a different prospect with the GT2 than the GT3 and I respect his opinion on the subject far in excess of that of most of the driving gods on here. So with the right mods and setup a GT2 can indeed be made to handle exceptionally well (and in the case of the 996 - miles better than it came out of the box), but there is nothing to support that you can make it drive quite like a GT3. Any given driver of adequate experience might find either one or the other preferable, but it is a matter of taste at the end of the day.

DiscoColin said: The wheel size is significant though as it alters the rear track in line with the wider rear bodywork of the turbo based shell. With different rear track, weight, weight distribution and differences affecting pretty much all compliance and roll characteristics I would contend that having common parts does little to assert them being fundamentally the same But the significant part is that while you can essentially give the GT2 similar handling characteristics, the nature of the engine and weight distribution calls for a decidedly different approach to driving it. I was in a conversation with Mike Wilds earlier this year and he reckoned that managing the mass of the car was a different prospect with the GT2 than the GT3 and I respect his opinion on the subject far in excess of that of most of the driving gods on here. So with the right mods and setup a GT2 can indeed be made to handle exceptionally well (and in the case of the 996 - miles better than it came out of the box), but there is nothing to support that you can make it drive quite like a GT3. Any given driver of adequate experience might find either one or the other preferable, but it is a matter of taste at the end of the day. Personally, and having developed my own 996GT2 as mentioned above, I can say a well set up GT2 is basically a faster GT3. In fact mine is better than my companies 997GT3, on road and track. For sure to get the best out of it then you have to be careful with the torque (double that of a Gt3). I can't see the addition of a pair of turbos making a lot of difference weight wise, I'd suggest that's confusion between balance and throttle adjustability of n/a v's turbo

wini said: Hi all, Just wondered what can be realistically expected from a 996GT2 after fitting a complete after market suspension kit and geo set up? Do you end up with a vast improvement over the standard car,which would then be very competent on track? I understand the GT2 will never be as good on a circuit as a GT3 but how good can a properly set up 996 GT2 get? Also anyone driven a 997 GT2 on a circuit? How much better than a 996 GT2 25%-40% ? Thanks Win 996GT2 can drive beautifully. Pm me if you want help sorting yours, can recommend settings and some very helpful chaps to do the work for you and then you can even learn to drive it at their on site test track...

Hi Jfp, ok what sort of modifications would a 996 Gt2 need to make it handle well on track, would it need more money spent on it than the equivalent Gt3 to get it to handle well?

Having driven a few well set up GT2's on track I've definitely come round to the 996GT2. On saying that, they require a different driving style to the GT3 and subsequently different set up Just replicating a Very sharp GT3 set up I think is not the way to go with a GT2. The GT3 requires a more seamless style than the GT2 which is more about deploying or unleashing the stunning torque available. If I were setting up my own GT2, I'd probably look at a softer rear end along with a few other variations of the GT3 set up. I'd also definitely fit some very decent shockers

DiscoColin said: Slippydiff said: The 996 GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis, the only difference being the differences in spring, damper, anti-roll bar rates and tyre/wheel sizes. The wheel size is significant though as it alters the rear track in line with the wider rear bodywork of the turbo based shell. With different rear track, weight, weight distribution and differences affecting pretty much all compliance and roll characteristics I would contend that having common parts does little to assert them being fundamentally the same But the significant part is that while you can essentially give the GT2 similar handling characteristics, the nature of the engine and weight distribution calls for a decidedly different approach to driving it. I was in a conversation with Mike Wilds earlier this year and he reckoned that managing the mass of the car was a different prospect with the GT2 than the GT3 and I respect his opinion on the subject far in excess of that of most of the driving gods on here. So with the right mods and setup a GT2 can indeed be made to handle exceptionally well (and in the case of the 996 - miles better than it came out of the box), but there is nothing to support that you can make it drive quite like a GT3. Any given driver of adequate experience might find either one or the other preferable, but it is a matter of taste at the end of the day. I'll reiterate what I said previously. I suggest you It's not up for debate. The chassis of the GT2 and the GT3 are the same, the shell, the subframes, the suspension components including the wishbones, uprights, toe links et all, are the same. Furthermore, I made no mention of driving dynamics or engine characteristics. And for the record, I couldn't give a flying f*ck if you road shotgun with Walter Rohrl whilst he developed the 996 GT2, it doesn't change the fact that the basic components are the same. So let's quit the frankly pathetic name dropping, the snide comments directed at other contributors to this forum, and whilst we're on the subject, lose the pedant act too.

wini said: Hi Jfp, ok what sort of modifications would a 996 Gt2 need to make it handle well on track, would it need more money spent on it than the equivalent Gt3 to get it to handle well? Money spent on either would be similar, but I'd suggest there are similarly aged gt3's that have been left because the comparative lack of power doesn't show the shortcomings as it does with the Gt2. A nice set of dampers, softer front springs and stiffer rears (can advise rates) decent toe links and a nice set up will give a really nice compliant turn in combined with a more settled composed rear end. A properly functioning diff (again because of the engine torque) is a must, and all up you will have a stunning drive :-) I rate PSS9 dampers and good springs as the best fast road set up you can get. Budget £4 to £5k for all parts and labour, front bushes may be required too and covered in that sum...

jfp said: I can't see the addition of a pair of turbos making a lot of difference weight wise, I'd suggest that's confusion between balance and throttle adjustability of n/a v's turbo Turbos, larger wheels and tyres, a tiny bit more bodywork, intercoolers and plumbing. Only roughly 50kg according to the book, but all of it on or aft of the rear axle. Broadly equivalent to having a smallish person sitting on the rear deck lid. But according to SlippyDiff (no - I neither ran over his cat nor had relations with his wife) it is otherwise all the same components (other than those that govern compliance and body control, which obviously don't matter) and makes no difference That said - I do agree with jfp's points that making a GT2 handle properly ought to fall into the same ballpark cost-wise as similar upgrades to a 3 and that once properly resolved it will be a similar (if faster) tool in the right hands. It will take more talent to properly exploit though. Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 26th April 00:52

I'm always really interested in the constructive comparisons between the 2s and 3s, obviously I'm in the 2 camp firmly having owned one for 6+ years, but I do think that enormous harm was done by the 996GT2's original press car which was by all accounts set up to kill people. But I've gradually seen a few changes in sentiment over my ownership in the general feel of these cars, and Steve above is I think for the first time I've read it so starkly able to say how he's warmed to the car. And only a few years ago as far as I recall was it established that the legendary GT3 chassis is duplicated on the GT2. For me, having driven GT3s albeit only briefly, the package of that monster torque engine (which let's face it never fails to bring a daft grin to your face every time you get the chance to have it lug you brutally from slow->very fast in no time) and the finesse/accuracy of the GT3 on the steering wheel while you meter in the torque through the corners (definitely nothing at all like the turbo) totally puts this car firmly into the company of the very best 911s. Off to collect mine from Cambridge tomorrow, and naturally it's raining again, lol. SM

jfp said: I can't see the addition of a pair of turbos making a lot of difference weight wise, I'd suggest that's confusion between balance and throttle adjustability of n/a v's turbo DiscoColin said: Turbos, larger wheels and tyres, a tiny bit more bodywork, intercoolers and plumbing. Only roughly 50kg according to the book, but all of it on or aft of the rear axle. Broadly equivalent to having a smallish person sitting on the rear deck lid. But according to SlippyDiff (no - I neither ran over his cat nor had relations with his wife) it is otherwise all the same components (other than those that govern compliance and body control, which obviously don't matter) and makes no difference I think you'll find I'd already highlighted the difference in ARB, damper and spring rates, so drop the sarcasm too ? You'd quoted my previous post in full and appeared to be having a pedantic and seemingly smug dig at all and sundry. Which of course begs the question, how many 996 GT2's have you owned ? I suspect, the number is nought point nought percent of chuff all ? How many miles have you spent behind the wheel of one ? Very few in comparison with some owners on here I'd wager. Additionally have you experimented with differing dampers, springs and geo set ups on them ? If the answer to the above is 2, many and yes, then you find me at a disadvantage sir, and I'll bow to your superior knowledge and experience. But I'll reiterate, the GT2 and GT3 share the same chassis and components. What has been conveniently forgotten is the weight of 996 Turbo/X50 exhaust silencer box, now that and a pair of turbos, intercoolers, their plumbing AND that fairly heavy engine cover and spoiler do add up to a fair bit of additional weight in the wrong place. But the fact of the matter is, irrespective of that additional weight, as JFP has said, a GT2 with the right springs, dampers, rear toe links, along with a correctly set up diff, accurately geo'd, well corner weighted with correctly set ride heights, does make for a VERY compelling, quick and sweet handling car. I should know, I spent many hours and £'s finding out what it takes to make the GT2 feel compliant and planted. Having experimented with the Ohlins dampers on my second car and almost found the sweet spot (they're now installed on my Mk1 996 GT3, which incidentally shares the same chassis as the GT2 yunno) I got to drive JFP's fantastically set up example back to back with my GT3 last year, I have to say i was hugely impressed with his set up.

Hello SD I understand I now own your old GT2. With the suspension on my GT2 being stock, I take the Ohlins were removed, by yourself, or Gavin? With tech moving on, would you still suggest using Ohlins, or Nitrons? I find the suspension very, very hard, for road, but almost floaty when on track

rallyeman said: Looks like an absolute weapon. Edited by TDT on Sunday 19th September 19:05

rallyeman said: Hello SD I understand I now own your old GT2. With the suspension on my GT2 being stock, I take the Ohlins were removed, by yourself, or Gavin? With tech moving on, would you still suggest using Ohlins, or Nitrons? I find the suspension very, very hard, for road, but almost floaty when on track So basically what you're saying is, you want to be able to have your cake and eat it ?? I owned the car after Gavin, and had the Ohlins custom built and fitted to the car. When I sold it, I took them off, they then saw duty on my Manthey 996 Mk1 GT3, and then my 997 Cup engined Mk1 996 GT3. To be honest, if you can find someone to build you a set of 2 or 3 way Ohlins or Nitrons with sensible spring rates (and valved to match them) there's no reason why you can't have decent compliance on the road, and with some tweaks to the compression and rebound adjustments when you arrive at the circuit, good on track behaviour too. Nitron went through a phase whereby they chucked ridiculously high spring rates on their dampers, but the last I heard was they'd found rates that worked well on both road and track both on the 996 and 997 chassis. I have to admit I'm a big fan of Ohlins stuff, and if you can run to a set of custom built (sprung and valved) TTX 36 & 46, they're what I would go for every time. Speak to either Ben Fricker at BG Motorsport : https://www.bgmotorsport.co.uk/ Or Russ Walton at Mick Gardner Racing https://www.ohlins.com/distributor/mick-gardner-ra... Feel free to drop me a PM if you want any further pointers, guidance.

Rallyman, it might be worth talking with Chris or Pete at Center Gravity as one of the well known suspension specialists in the country as they've seen/fitted /set up most suspension kits & the suspension kit is just part of things.... a good "full geo" can transform an existing /standard system by the way (they also can test the existing shocks to see if they are operating within normal tolerances). CG will also check the age/wear of the tyres & give advice on setting the tyres pressures at different levels to the manufacturer's recommended ones.

Slippydiff said: rallyeman said: Hello SD I understand I now own your old GT2. With the suspension on my GT2 being stock, I take the Ohlins were removed, by yourself, or Gavin? With tech moving on, would you still suggest using Ohlins, or Nitrons? I find the suspension very, very hard, for road, but almost floaty when on track So basically what you're saying is, you want to be able to have your cake and eat it ?? I owned the car after Gavin, and had the Ohlins custom built and fitted to the car. When I sold it, I took them off, they then saw duty on my Manthey 996 Mk1 GT3, and then my 997 Cup engined Mk1 996 GT3. To be honest, if you can find someone to build you a set of 2 or 3 way Ohlins or Nitrons with sensible spring rates (and valved to match them) there's no reason why you can't have decent compliance on the road, and with some tweaks to the compression and rebound adjustments when you arrive at the circuit, good on track behaviour too. Nitron went through a phase whereby they chucked ridiculously high spring rates on their dampers, but the last I heard was they'd found rates that worked well on both road and track both on the 996 and 997 chassis. I have to admit I'm a big fan of Ohlins stuff, and if you can run to a set of custom built (sprung and valved) TTX 36 & 46, they're what I would go for every time. Speak to either Ben Fricker at BG Motorsport : https://www.bgmotorsport.co.uk/ Or Russ Walton at Mick Gardner Racing https://www.ohlins.com/distributor/mick-gardner-ra... Feel free to drop me a PM if you want any further pointers, guidance. Thank you, big help

MrC986 said: Rallyman, it might be worth talking with Chris or Pete at Center Gravity as one of the well known suspension specialists in the country as they've seen/fitted /set up most suspension kits & the suspension kit is just part of things.... a good "full geo" can transform an existing /standard system by the way (they also can test the existing shocks to see if they are operating within normal tolerances). CG will also check the age/wear of the tyres & give advice on setting the tyres pressures at different levels to the manufacturer's recommended ones. I’ve attempted this a few times, but lead time, is 2/3 months, so was trying to find info in meantime