MPS Cup 2 Tyre shortages and trackdays - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. As everybody knows (or should know) there is a shortage. What surprised me is that I had hoped (reasonably I believed) for one more good day out of them ... the reality was just ten sighting and warming up laps ... the problem noticed when finally adjusting tyre pressures ! The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ...

Feel your pain! I lashed through an entire set of Cup 2's on my Meg at Anglesy on Monday! I have taken to keeping a set of tyres in stock now for all the track cars just to avoid any supply issues (bit like Covid bog roll ) My only observation on yours is that Snetterton always used to be a bad circuit for tyre wear, looks like it still is!

Luckily I had a couple of spare front tyres so am back up and running ... having checked I also have four legal and useable rear tyres for the GT4 if any body needs one or two to keep themselves going. This isn't an advertisement `(Mods) ... they are each free to any needy GT4 owner who may be invited to wait two months (or so I am told) for the like for like exchange of an illegal tyre !

No shortage in france currently. Use sterling shopping to bring them back to ashford, 20% import though i think..

Local tyre dealer imports tyres from Europe relatively often because of specific size shortages. I ordered a set of Cup 2 Connect’s from them about a year ago which Michelin UK weren’t being very helpful with so they imported them.

FurtiveFreddy said: Also, I've seen the Track Connect app in action a few times now and it just doesn't work very well. That needs addressing too. To be honest the more significant part of the cup 2 connect package is the tyre itself and the revised compound which is an advancement on the normal Cup 2 and step towards the Cup 2 R in terms of outright performance. Couldn’t give a monkeys about the app, really, although it might help some without TPMS and/or any experience of managing tyres on track.

TDT said: To be honest the more significant part of the cup 2 connect package is the tyre itself and the revised compound which is an advancement on the normal Cup 2 and step towards the Cup 2 R in terms of outright performance. Couldn’t give a monkeys about the app, really, although it might help some without TPMS and/or any experience of managing tyres on track. It is worthwhile for those with little or no track experience as it gets them in the window quicker. Or it would be, if it worked. I appreciate what you're saying about the Cup2C being a better tyre than the Cup2 and I've found that to be the case (although still some way off the Cup2 R, which is an impressive tyre for sure). But I've seen more reports recently of unexpected delaminations and shoulder wear on the Cup 2C and as Cup2s seem to be easier to get hold of here I'm going back to them with my next set.

FurtiveFreddy said: TDT said: To be honest the more significant part of the cup 2 connect package is the tyre itself and the revised compound which is an advancement on the normal Cup 2 and step towards the Cup 2 R in terms of outright performance. Couldn’t give a monkeys about the app, really, although it might help some without TPMS and/or any experience of managing tyres on track. It is worthwhile for those with little or no track experience as it gets them in the window quicker. Or it would be, if it worked. I appreciate what you're saying about the Cup2C being a better tyre than the Cup2 and I've found that to be the case (although still some way off the Cup2 R, which is an impressive tyre for sure). [But I've seen more reports recently of unexpected delaminations and shoulder wear on the Cup 2C and as Cup2s seem to be easier to get hold of here I'm going back to them with my next set. Thats interesting... something to keep an eye out for... I'd like to try a set of Cup2C - but overall just happy if i can get normal Cup2 N1... have been a reliable and consistent partner for me. Based on the 992 GT3 thread comments are that Cup2C last longer in terms of wear than Cup2R but not as durable as normal Cup2... so maybe thats where we see problems - as people expect to be able to run them like a 'regular' Cup2. Edited by TDT on Thursday 2nd September 10:54

FurtiveFreddy said: TDT said: To be honest the more significant part of the cup 2 connect package is the tyre itself and the revised compound which is an advancement on the normal Cup 2 and step towards the Cup 2 R in terms of outright performance. Couldn’t give a monkeys about the app, really, although it might help some without TPMS and/or any experience of managing tyres on track. It is worthwhile for those with little or no track experience as it gets them in the window quicker. Or it would be, if it worked. I appreciate what you're saying about the Cup2C being a better tyre than the Cup2 and I've found that to be the case (although still some way off the Cup2 R, which is an impressive tyre for sure). But I've seen more reports recently of unexpected delaminations and shoulder wear on the Cup 2C and as Cup2s seem to be easier to get hold of here I'm going back to them with my next set. I am one of those said track day novices….found the App functionality to work really well. A few people have seen me using it at track days and asked about it….they’ve all liked the look of what they have seen. What doesn’t yours do ?

TDT said: Based on the 992 GT3 thread comments are that Cup2C last longer in terms of wear than Cup2R but not as durable as normal Cup2... so maybe thats where we see problems - as people expect to be able to run them like a 'regular' Cup2. Maybe that's what it is but AFAIK the Cup 2 is being phased out and replaced by the Cup 2C so we may not have choice soon.

Cheib said: I am one of those said track day novices….found the App functionality to work really well. A few people have seen me using it at track days and asked about it….they’ve all liked the look of what they have seen. What doesn’t yours do ? It's not just mine, I've seen the same things happen with 3 other Track Connect systems in different cars. Laps/sessions not recorded at all Duplicate sessions in the history Lap times wrong by up to 2 seconds meaning that someone can get the 'lap record' when in fact they didn't do anything close to the laptime on the app! Support for the app is vurtually non-existent and has to come from the French developers who take a week to answer any emails (phoning them doesn't work). I've seen others who get good results from the app but I also have 3 friends with it who are very disappointed to have spent the money on it with all the issues they have.

ChrisW. said: These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ... I've seen damage like that on a Cup 2 Connect recently after very few laps and although it was on a heavy car, I was a bit surprised at the relatively small number of laps the driver had done on it. What I've also seen on another couple of cars with Cup 2 Connects recently is a complete delamination of the first tread band in from the outside. That looked like it might be a tyre fault to me. The tyre shortage isn't across the board but it is difficult to get Cup2 Connects direct from Michelin it seems from chatting to my tyre dealer. It's also very hard to get any technical info from anyone at Michelin UK currently and has been for quite some time now due to Covid etc. Some comments from them regarding these extreme wear patterns would be helpful. Also, I've seen the Track Connect app in action a few times now and it just doesn't work very well. That needs addressing too. Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Thursday 2nd September 11:22

ChrisW. said: These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. As everybody knows (or should know) there is a shortage. The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ... What's causing it to wear so much on the outer shoulder, insufficient camber, toe etc? Looks like it's rolling onto the outer edge or you are having a lot of understeer? I'm running 3 degrees negative on a 991 Touring and the tyre is wearing evenly across the surface. Just ordered Cup2 connect online no problem:

FurtiveFreddy said: Cheib said: I am one of those said track day novices….found the App functionality to work really well. A few people have seen me using it at track days and asked about it….they’ve all liked the look of what they have seen. What doesn’t yours do ? It's not just mine, I've seen the same things happen with 3 other Track Connect systems in different cars. Laps/sessions not recorded at all Duplicate sessions in the history Lap times wrong by up to 2 seconds meaning that someone can get the 'lap record' when in fact they didn't do anything close to the laptime on the app! Support for the app is vurtually non-existent and has to come from the French developers who take a week to answer any emails (phoning them doesn't work). I've seen others who get good results from the app but I also have 3 friends with it who are very disappointed to have spent the money on it with all the issues they have. Exactly the same here - it's awesome for someone who is playing with a new car or new to tracks in terms of getting the tyres to the right temps and pressures ASAP - it's great to know when you have got it "right" by definition of the manufacturer. I was running too high pressures it would appear, and it is now way better following the app. The temp/pressure part of the connect app (the whole point of it) is great. However the lap timing feature is utterly pointless - does not agree with other timing devices in the car at all and seems to randomly work. I don't bother with it now.

I suffered serious shoulder damage on my front left at Llandow recently, the tyres had done very few laps maybe 50 track miles total, and were destroyed. Never experienced this before, must be a bad batch imo. Hoping to get Michelin to investigate and replace. 🤞

Bee_Jay said: FurtiveFreddy said: Cheib said: I am one of those said track day novices….found the App functionality to work really well. A few people have seen me using it at track days and asked about it….they’ve all liked the look of what they have seen. What doesn’t yours do ? It's not just mine, I've seen the same things happen with 3 other Track Connect systems in different cars. Laps/sessions not recorded at all Duplicate sessions in the history Lap times wrong by up to 2 seconds meaning that someone can get the 'lap record' when in fact they didn't do anything close to the laptime on the app! Support for the app is vurtually non-existent and has to come from the French developers who take a week to answer any emails (phoning them doesn't work). I've seen others who get good results from the app but I also have 3 friends with it who are very disappointed to have spent the money on it with all the issues they have. Exactly the same here - it's awesome for someone who is playing with a new car or new to tracks in terms of getting the tyres to the right temps and pressures ASAP - it's great to know when you have got it "right" by definition of the manufacturer. I was running too high pressures it would appear, and it is now way better following the app. The temp/pressure part of the connect app (the whole point of it) is great. However the lap timing feature is utterly pointless - does not agree with other timing devices in the car at all and seems to randomly work. I don't bother with it now. Ah I see. Well the reason I bought it was for the tyre pressures etc. Didn’t know about lap timeline functionality when I bought it and I am still at the stage where I am using an instructor most of the time. Don’t think my abilities are at the stage yet where I need to be chasing tenths or shoul be chasing tenths !

ElectricEel said: I suffered serious shoulder damage on my front left at Llandow recently, the tyres had done very few laps maybe 50 track miles total, and were destroyed. Never experienced this before, must be a bad batch imo. Hoping to get Michelin to investigate and replace. ?? That is in dire need of some more camber!

993rsr said: ChrisW. said: These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. As everybody knows (or should know) there is a shortage. The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ... What's causing it to wear so much on the outer shoulder, insufficient camber, toe etc? Looks like it's rolling onto the outer edge or you are having a lot of understeer? I'm running 3 degrees negative on a 991 Touring and the tyre is wearing evenly across the surface. Just ordered Cup2 connect online no problem: I'm running -2.5 degrees of camber all round ... Paul from Parr suggested that I could up that to -3 degrees. The tyres appeared to have worn reasonably evenly and there was still some tread on the very edge ... the delimitation was a little distance in from the edge and was therefore unexpected ...

ChrisW. said: 993rsr said: ChrisW. said: These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. As everybody knows (or should know) there is a shortage. The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ... What's causing it to wear so much on the outer shoulder, insufficient camber, toe etc? Looks like it's rolling onto the outer edge or you are having a lot of understeer? I'm running 3 degrees negative on a 991 Touring and the tyre is wearing evenly across the surface. Just ordered Cup2 connect online no problem: I'm running -2.5 degrees of camber all round ... Paul from Parr suggested that I could up that to -3 degrees. The tyres appeared to have worn reasonably evenly and there was still some tread on the very edge ... the delimitation was a little distance in from the edge and was therefore unexpected ... That’s interesting Chris, I had assumed you were already running much more camber and in the -3.0 range already. Personally I’ve haven’t ever seen that type of wear or de-lamination on my car but i am running in the -3.0s on the front. Even wear across the surface with slight toe in. When I was running a touch of toe out… the inners were obviously having a bit of a harder time. Something I’ll watch out for.

Std GT3 991.2 and I`ve just replaced my Cup2`s with the Ferrari marked tyre due to the shortage. Even Porsche cannot get the N rated version at the moment and I was a bit desperate due to suffering the same delamination on the front left which is hardly surprising after 8 trackdays and 7k miles. I thought they had done rather well !!

My Exige 430 Cup came with Cup 2s, Did 7.5k miles of road use with plenty of track thrown in. Replaced them with Connects, destroyed them in 2 track days.

Softer = more grip = increased wear/reduced life. Hmm.

FTW said: ElectricEel said: I suffered serious shoulder damage on my front left at Llandow recently, the tyres had done very few laps maybe 50 track miles total, and were destroyed. Never experienced this before, must be a bad batch imo. Hoping to get Michelin to investigate and replace. ?? That is in dire need of some more camber! Agreed, I have just bought some FUCA to allow more camber adjustment. Still they fell to pieces in almost no miles, feels wrong.

ElectricEel said: FTW said: ElectricEel said: I suffered serious shoulder damage on my front left at Llandow recently, the tyres had done very few laps maybe 50 track miles total, and were destroyed. Never experienced this before, must be a bad batch imo. Hoping to get Michelin to investigate and replace. ?? That is in dire need of some more camber! Agreed, I have just bought some FUCA to allow more camber adjustment. Still they fell to pieces in almost no miles, feels wrong. Did you spin out at all? Seen this before after the driver (me) spun out in a slow corner?

Cheib said: Ah I see. Well the reason I bought it was for the tyre pressures etc. Didn’t know about lap timeline functionality when I bought it and I am still at the stage where I am using an instructor most of the time. Don’t think my abilities are at the stage yet where I need to be chasing tenths or shoul be chasing tenths ! It's not specifically the lap timing that's the useful part. If I want to do that I've got data loggers in the car already. But recording the history of a session so you can see the temperatures and pressures build during the session is very useful, so when it doesn't record a session in the history or just a couple of laps from one, that's quite annoying. But the real issue I find is that there just isn't anywhere you can go for help with any of these issues, whether it's tyre wear questions or the app. The tyre dealers don't get a response from Michelin any more than the customers do.

ChrisW. said: These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. As everybody knows (or should know) there is a shortage. What surprised me is that I had hoped (reasonably I believed) for one more good day out of them ... the reality was just ten sighting and warming up laps ... the problem noticed when finally adjusting tyre pressures ! The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ... Hi Chris. Did you sort yourself out with a set of Cup 2’s and which car do you have? I just picked up my 718 Spyder yesterday and I ordered it on summer tyres and Porsche built it with Cup 2’s. Dealer swapped the brand new cups for PS4S for me so they have a new set now ready to sell. I can put you in touch with the guys at the OPC if you still need.

Cunno said: Did you spin out at all? Seen this before after the driver (me) spun out in a slow corner? No, the short session didn't even look too hard on the tyres tbh, really strange

Shiverman said: Hi Chris. Did you sort yourself out with a set of Cup 2’s and which car do you have? I just picked up my 718 Spyder yesterday and I ordered it on summer tyres and Porsche built it with Cup 2’s. Dealer swapped the brand new cups for PS4S for me so they have a new set now ready to sell. I can put you in touch with the guys at the OPC if you still need. I’m interested if these are available, depending where in the country

ab8 said: I’m interested if these are available, depending where in the country The dealer is in the Midlands if that works for you? Drop me a PM if it does.

Apologies for the slow reply … yes I had a spare pair of front tyres. Many many thanks for the offer !! Chris

ChrisW. said: These pics show my NSF tyre after the shoulder delaminated at Snetterton today. As everybody knows (or should know) there is a shortage. What surprised me is that I had hoped (reasonably I believed) for one more good day out of them ... the reality was just ten sighting and warming up laps ... the problem noticed when finally adjusting tyre pressures ! The damage is in multiple places around the whole tyre ... Just to interject here, while this could easily be wear/tyre fault/setup related I have seen similar damage to slick tyres that has been attributed to running kerbs. There are a few kerbs at Snett (exit of the hairpin, right hander onto the old back straight, exit of the esses) that are often used where the edges of the kerbs are actually nastier than they feel in the car. The tyres should put up with it when they're warm but worth staying off them when the tyres are cold as you can cold tear the surface from the carcass, especially with any steering lock on

That is a possibility, particularly since the thickness of the tread-level layer is visibly very thin ... worth noting, thanks !