996.1 GT3 vs 997.1 GT3 - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I’m quite interested in buying another GT3 and thinking of going for 996.1 or 997.1. Partly because they seem good value (as far as Porsche GT cars go) and partly as I’ve had a 996.2 which I really enjoyed but found quite hard work on bumpy B roads so hoping one of these is better on road. Main use will be Sunday morning drives and road trips so keen to have something I can cover miles in comfortably and is entertaining on the right roads. Prefer RHD and happy with a comfort spec car. Has anyone had both and was there much to choose between them, particularly on road? I’m not bothered about absolute pace, both are quick enough for me, I just want a good driving experience. I am guessing they are similar money to run and budget is flexible (within reason). Anything to look out for (other than the usual) and any issues with a high mileage car that has been well looked after?

Are you planning on tracking the car at all? If not have you considered a 996 Turbo? To me it provided a fantastic road experience, far less compromised than my GT3 (997.1) which I would expect to be more refined than the 996 variants. Mine is running static Ohlins so would expect a stock car to be more comfortable, but it wouldn’t change the heavy clutch/lack of sound deadening which can be a chore if pootling along in traffic. Don’t get me wrong a comfort GT3 is still a very enjoyable drive on the road but if it’s never seeing a track the Turbo provided a lovely balance of rawness (due to being an older 996) and was very compliant & confidence inspiring on country roads. As for things to watch out for: - Less underseal/protection so I’d expect some examples to need a bit of cleaning up - at 997 age I doubt you will see anything too concerning yet but something to keep in mind - (normal 996/997) The usual disintegrating of bolts nuts/holding the exhaust in place - (Normal 996/997) Coolant leaks (hose connectors rotting away) - If it’s running ceramics just check for chips/damage Usually I have a long list of things to check for after purchasing a car, but they do appear to be pretty reliable and not suffer from many common issues Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 16th January 19:09

Shantybeater do you find your self using your 997.1 GT3 less due to compromise compared to your previous 996 turbo? Surprised the clutch is that much heavier and it has alot less sound deadening. The 996 turbo clutch is light when is good condition, but there is still a fair amount of noise, compared to most cars. The turbo is certainly very usable in poorer conditions when the roads are wet and mucky.

Thanks for the feedback. I have another car I would use on track so this will be primarily for road use and maybe one or two trackdays a year. I have tried a few 996 Turbos over the year and they are great road cars as you say. I preferred the slightly lighter feel of the GT3 and I really like the noisy and experience. The Turbo would probably be the more sensible choice but my opportunities to get out for drives are few and I want to enjoy the experience as much as I can. Good point to check the underside for general wear and deterioration. I sometimes forget these cars are 20 years old and have probably not had a refresh at this point so something to look out for and budget accordingly.

g7jhp said: Surprised the clutch is that much heavier and it has alot less sound deadening. GT3 has no assistance/booster on the clutch. It’s waaay heavier than Turbo. And they are noisy. I’m guessing the turbo is like a Carrera in that they have large foam insulation sections in the rear quarter panels for noise absorption. GT3 has nothing, just empty cavities to echo all the stones and road noise. They are chalk and cheese. I only do road driving as I get bored on trackdays these days but I’d still never bother with a Turbo. GT3 is like a totally different car. 996T for daily commuting maybe, but that would be all and to be honest they’re a bit old/niche for that now. We all have to find our own favourite though. Edited to add - I don’t actually find my clutch that heavy. Just every other clutch seems over-assisted. I notice it after half an hour or so of gridlocked traffic but I’m rarely say in that. Edited by marky911 on Monday 17th January 12:14

g7jhp said: Shantybeater do you find your self using your 997.1 GT3 less due to compromise compared to your previous 996 turbo? Surprised the clutch is that much heavier and it has alot less sound deadening. The 996 turbo clutch is light when is good condition, but there is still a fair amount of noise, compared to most cars. The turbo is certainly very usable in poorer conditions when the roads are wet and mucky. No not less but arguably it’s enjoyable less of the time when in use. The road/tyre noise is substantially louder which is irritable on motorway drives, and the clutch does make stop start traffic a bit more of a chore. I just found the 996T (x50 so a nice dollop of torque) such a wonderful package on country roads whatever the weather. It was more playful/confidence inspiring and the front end didn’t wash out as easily when faced with undulations etc. A wonderful weekend road car full stop and could do the daily grind with ease. That said I owned the car for 8.5 years and still have lots to learn in the GT3. It’s just obvious it comes into its own on a track, much like it’s stablemate (s2000), and for that reason all the negatives above are worthwhile. Edited by shantybeater on Monday 17th January 12:54

The gt3 left the factory with no undersea but many do have it done and I've considered it but given im an occasional fair weather driver at best i.e. 1k miles in over 2 years I prob won't need it

Do not under seal drop all the plastics clean and spray with clear wax oil.

RC1 said: The gt3 left the factory with no undersea but many do have it done and I've considered it but given im an occasional fair weather driver at best i.e. 1k miles in over 2 years I prob won't need it It depends on what state the sills are in, your OCD levels, and intended use, as to what remedial action you should take (if any). I've had the underside wax coated, but the stone pecking on the visible elements of the sill (in front of the rear arches, and on the leading edge inside the front arch) was such that bare metal was visible, leaving the panels exposed to deterioration, and I would suggest that wax isn't going to fix this (at least not in an aesthetically pleasing manner). For my own peace of mind I had a bare metal respray done to include stone chip protection to the leading edges of the sills inside the front arches and along the exposed "n"-section of the sill underneath (the section outboard of the undertrays). The visible elements of the sill are now factory fresh, and about to be PPF'd to keep them that way as long as possible. This is possibly extreme, but having weighed all the options up, it's the one that ensured the best nights sleep, and will enable the car to be used with a little more freedom regardless of what surprises our fickle weather and road conditions can throw at us.

D.no said: RC1 said: The gt3 left the factory with no undersea but many do have it done and I've considered it but given im an occasional fair weather driver at best i.e. 1k miles in over 2 years I prob won't need it It depends on what state the sills are in, your OCD levels, and intended use, as to what remedial action you should take (if any). I've had the underside wax coated, but the stone pecking on the visible elements of the sill (in front of the rear arches, and on the leading edge inside the front arch) was such that bare metal was visible, leaving the panels exposed to deterioration, and I would suggest that wax isn't going to fix this (at least not in an aesthetically pleasing manner). For my own peace of mind I had a bare metal respray done to include stone chip protection to the leading edges of the sills inside the front arches and along the exposed "n"-section of the sill underneath (the section outboard of the undertrays). The visible elements of the sill are now factory fresh, and about to be PPF'd to keep them that way as long as possible. This is possibly extreme, but having weighed all the options up, it's the one that ensured the best nights sleep, and will enable the car to be used with a little more freedom regardless of what surprises our fickle weather and road conditions can throw at us. This ^ Do it once, and do it right. It’s the only way. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/6629...

Slippydiff said: This ^ Do it once, and do it right. It’s the only way. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/6629... Amazing job. How much did that cost to do though?

Slippydiff said: This ^ Do it once, and do it right. It’s the only way. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/6629... Great link, thanks for sharing...Nice coffee read

shantybeater said: No not less but arguably it’s enjoyable less of the time when in use. The road/tyre noise is substantially louder which is irritable on motorway drives, and the clutch does make stop start traffic a bit more of a chore. I just found the 996T (x50 so a nice dollop of torque) such a wonderful package on country roads whatever the weather. It was more playful/confidence inspiring and the front end didn’t wash out as easily when faced with undulations etc. A wonderful weekend road car full stop and could do the daily grind with ease. That said I owned the car for 8.5 years and still have lots to learn in the GT3. It’s just obvious it comes into its own on a track, much like it’s stablemate (s2000), and for that reason all the negatives above are worthwhile. Edited by shantybeater on Monday 17th January 12:54 GT3 road and tyre noise isn't great, I must admit, but it's better than my M3 CSL! A friend of mine has a 997 GTS which also comes sans sound deadening from the factory, and over lockdown, he removed the seats and carpet and added a layer of dynamat extreme to the floor, rear arches and door skins, and put some further acoustic foam into all of the cavities. I haven't been in it yet, but he said it has made a massive difference to road noise, and he can now hear the engine much more clearly. Adding weight to a stripped-out, lightweight car may seem a little backwards, but I think it was only around 10kgs which no one will ever be able to feel, and if it makes long journeys far more bearable, I think it might be worth doing. Will be a bit of a pain to do with a cage though!

Slippydiff said: This ^ Do it once, and do it right. It’s the only way. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/6629... Thanks for finding that. That thread and scenario was certainly in mind when deciding on the best course of action for my car. A bit of carefully considered remedial work now, will hopefully prevent/delay that level of restoration in the future. Sadly, on cars with reduced underbody protection (when mixed with our climate and road conditions) some form of remedial bodywork should arguably form part of the ongoing maintenance schedule to enable the cars to age gracefully.

guyvert1 said: Slippydiff said: This ^ Do it once, and do it right. It’s the only way. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/6629... Great link, thanks for sharing...Nice coffee read Yep, very much enjoyed reading that.

TDT said: Yep, very much enjoyed reading that. I didn't, it's put me off buying a 996 or 997 GT3! I think I will go and buy a GT4 instead.

blackmamba said: TDT said: Yep, very much enjoyed reading that. I didn't, it's put me off buying a 996 or 997 GT3! I think I will go and buy a GT4 instead. Lol… if it’s done that, it’s also served a purpose. GT4 is an excellent choice

blackmamba said: TDT said: Yep, very much enjoyed reading that. I didn't, it's put me off buying a 996 or 997 GT3! I think I will go and buy a GT4 instead. GT4 is a very different animal, and IME you'll end up sacrificing a large chunk of tactility and engagement. If you're going that route, you may as well buy a 996 Turbo and make it into a sharper tool. I know the owner of the car that was the subject of that underbody restoration, he's a long time mate. It's a lovely example. However, not all cars will be anything like as bad as that example. If you find a car that ticks all your boxes, inspecting it for corrosion issues is straightforward once it's up on a ramp, at the worst case scenario you'll be in for a couple of hours labour to remove the arch liners, undertrays and sill extensions, at which point any corrosion issues will be easily identified.

Been through a similar process with mine following the Renlist thread Turning the car upside down might be a bit extreme but lifting hign enough to use a proper high pressure steam cleaner is required to shift the dirty wax originally applied. Rub down all the rust spots and repaint followed by several coats of hard setting wax. 4 years on and not a single spot of rust has re emerged.

TDT said: Lol… if it’s done that, it’s also served a purpose. GT4 is an excellent choice Ha ha, not quite there yet. I had a 981 GT4 and really liked it. Thought it made an excellent road car but I am looking for something that is a bit more exciting to drive given the limited opportunities I will get to use the car. GT4 was very competent but didn't make me smile in the same way a GT3 does plus I figure I can always get one of those relatively easily if I change my mind.

Slippydiff said: However, not all cars will be anything like as bad as that example. If you find a car that ticks all your boxes, inspecting it for corrosion issues is straightforward once it's up on a ramp, at the worst case scenario you'll be in for a couple of hours labour to remove the arch liners, undertrays and sill extensions, at which point any corrosion issues will be easily identified. +1 My car (2005, 73k miles) was having some work done last year, whilst on a ramp I had a good look underneath and it's in excellent shape. (Garaged all its life / little winter use perhaps?)

BrotherMouzone said: +1 My car (2005, 73k miles) was having some work done last year, whilst on a ramp I had a good look underneath and it's in excellent shape. (Garaged all its life / little winter use perhaps?) Looks in cracking nick, though probably goes better with a gearbox in it and something for the slave cylinder to operate

My 64k 2006 997.1 is also in great shape. I did do an underside cleanup and it wasn’t much worse than the 996T before it (similar miles). They are far from dissolving at this age (997.1 anyway), it’s just something to consider and worth waxing after purchase. I wouldn’t let it put you off that’s for sure. Take a look at my thread to get a gist on condition/work involved http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=143805

shantybeater said: Take a look at my thread to get a gist on condition/work involved http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=143805 Top effort, and a lovely car.

D.no said: shantybeater said: Take a look at my thread to get a gist on condition/work involved http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=143805 Top effort, and a lovely car. Indeed! Top marks.

This is my MkI UK Clubsport < 30,000 miles Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 18th January 22:08

ChrisW. said: This is my MkI UK Clubsport < 30,000 miles That's fantastic!, Are the dampers rebuilt or new, and how have you cleaned the suspension arms? I like the idea that I could make mine similarly spotless (even if it would remain an idea!)

Very nice Chris and Shanty. I remember that yellow car getting done. My reaction is the same now. By god that’s an extreme way of tackling some early surface corrosion. I think that’s the result of saying to an expensive specialist “Just do what you think needs doing”. For a clean underside see this 996GT3 having some dry ice treatment. https://youtu.be/K1WEfIAChJ0 Edited to add - Blimey! I hadn’t looked at the classifieds for a while. Silver Mk2 with the same miles as mine is on at Paragon for £82k. It doesn’t even have climate, it has the twiddly knobs. Edited by marky911 on Wednesday 19th January 08:43

marky911 said: For a clean underside see this 996GT3 having some dry ice treatment. https://youtu.be/K1WEfIAChJ0 I'd love to give that a whirl! 5 minutes of Google research on it and I can't find anyone that offers this service specifically for the purposes of car detailing in the UK, like this place in the U.S: https://cryodetail.com All of the UK operations seem to be set up for industrial applications.

D.no said: I'd love to give that a whirl! 5 minutes of Google research on it and I can't find anyone that offers this service specifically for the purposes of car detailing in the UK, like this place in the U.S: https://cryodetail.com All of the UK operations seem to be set up for industrial applications. There are several places in the UK that dry ice / clean cars, try cryodrive who have done several 911s including a well known 997 GT3.

blackmamba said: There are several places in the UK that dry ice / clean cars, try cryodrive who have done several 911s including a well known 997 GT3. Excellent. Thanks

D.no said: That's fantastic!, Are the dampers rebuilt or new, and how have you cleaned the suspension arms? I like the idea that I could make mine similarly spotless (even if it would remain an idea!) Mostly new ... I am now paranoid about salt and don't want to wax it !! But