Thinking of buying a C4s...

So I'm looking at buying my first pcar and I've been looking at a used C4s, thinking 2002-2004. I know about the RMS issue, but many have told me that it's blown out of proportion. I just have a few questions (sorry if this is noobish) 1) Other than the RMS issue, what should I look for when checking out various cars? 2) Some 2002s I've looked at, well their warranties are out next year. What are your thoughts on a really clean, low-mileage creampuff that doesn't have a lot of warranty time left on it? 3) How concerned should I really be about the RMS issue? thanks. -Bryan

I currently have a Porsche 991 C2S and really love my car, but I am always wanting for more power, more noise, more raw feeling. I don't want something like an Exige, that's too much raw, so I went looking at Ferrari and my budget would have me in either an F430, California, or older. California is out because to me it's a sideways move from the 991. So, I drove the F430 for 15-20 minutes and I have to say I liked everything about the car except for two things. 1. transmission 2. the salesman! The paddle shift transmission felt, to me, very lazy. The shifting was happening significantly after pulling the lever, and yes I know this is a 7 year old car I'm driving, but I still expect better. Is this normal? I felt like it performed more akin to a Dodge Caravan in Sport mode than like a DSG or PDK, sorry if I offended anyone who has one, that's just, like, my opinion, man. This car is offered in manual also? The salesman was a slimy little pos wearing all of his Louis Vuitton gear the way someone who can't really afford it would wear it. Yeah, man, I get it you need to keep up with the joneses, but you look like a rapper; I wear that overpriced and poorly made garbage as well, but I am not flaunting labels for attention. He couldn't tell me what the significance of Berlinetta is, he couldn't tell me anything about scheduled maintenance or costs, nor did he offer to find out, and generally saw me as some young guy who will buy it because it's a red Ferrari. He just kept telling me how many girls will be wanting to ride in my car. Honestly, the whole experience turned me off of the brand a little bit, it made it feel like a cheapened experience, but I digress; I'd like to know about the transmission, what berlinetta means, and what I can expect on a regular basis for maintenance... I'm not looking for the cost of ownership, that is what it is, but is it true valve adjustments and dropping the motor out of the car is part of routine maintenance? Any other info you can share with me is also appreciated, I won't be going back to that dealer probably. I ride bikes with a local guy who has an 458 (whatever the race car version is), a LaFerrari, and I think an FX-X as well. He tracks the cars at events in Italy and can probably take me straight to a dealership owner or manager if I need him to, but I'm not ready to call in that favor yet. Thanks!

There might be a stunningly gorgeous '04 C4S Cab for sale in your future.

The F430 is offered in manual, but they are somewhat difficult to find and command a big premium over F1 models. The single clutch F1 box in the F430 can't feel anything like a DSG or PDK, due to the design. Going from PDK to that would feel like a monumental step backwards. The F430 also does not require engine-out major services like the 348, F355, and 360s did. They are actually some of the cheaper modern Ferraris to maintain. You will still have normal services and inspections, but at least the motor doesn't have to come out twice a year.

at least u dont have to buy bumperplugs anymore

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Go with a manual (if you can even find one) and you will never regret it. When I spec'd mine, it was manual all the way. There's nothing more exciting than a manual ferrari and hearing the click clack of the shifter going through the metal gates...pure bliss. The f1 tranny in the 430 is old so you can't expect it to be lightning fast...I think my f10 m5 dct shifts much faster than std 430 f1. Good luck. Quote:

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OP, if you do decide to go with a manual, there was a beautifully spec'd one on Ferrarichat not long ago. Rosso Corsa/Beige interior, Challenge wheels, and not a flaw on the car.

Not too shabby, but thinking of a coupe... Any input guys??

The F1 transmission, honestly, is garbage. The thing I dislike most about this car. It is reason enough for me to have been seriously consider selling it for the past few months. Its 'ok' at first, but you grow to dislike it more and more as you own the car. I jump into my Porsche or GTR and it feels like I went back to the future 50 years. The sound and looks of the 430 are spot-on, my favorite of any F-car. But I will probably jump to a 458 for the transmission alone. I even considered trading it in for a used California immediately on my more frustrated days. I'll probably have to wait a bit, or get rid of another car in addition to get the 458 since the price jump is so considerable. About 200 for a good pre-owned one, and I'd be looking at around 120 for my 430 on the used market.

I bought my C4S a month ago and I can tell you, you will not regret the purchase. The car is amazing. I went the CPO route though, and I have factory warranty left as well. Its a nice piece of mind. However if you get a 2002 with a tad of factory warranty left just make sure and take it and have them take a look at it before the warranty runs out.

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Quote: Might even be worth waiting to see what the 488 GTB does to the 458 market. Might drive prices down considerably, into the $160k range. Honestly, if you aren't 100% committed to a Ferrari, the McLaren 12C is great bang-for-buck right now. Carbon tub, futuristic suspension, awesome tech, dual clutch trans, and 600+ HP for $150k - $160k.

Thanks... You guys know the major differences between 2001-2005 regarding the C4s? (sorry for all the newb questions)

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Quote: I'm doubtful the 488 release will have any impact on the 458 market. I was sure that Gallardo prices would tank once the Huracan came out, and if anything, they went up. Was hoping to trade my G in for a 560, but prices are holding strong. I'd be lucky to get 110 for my 06, and you're looking at about 150 for the low-end of 09's. I considered the 12c and drove one, but decided it wasn't for me. Its almost-Porsche-fast, and doesn't have the sound or presence of an Italian. My Turbo S will blow the doors off a 12c with the top down and cooled seats on. 650s is a beautiful car, but big $$.

Hey Eric, didn't you just buy that one. What are you getting now?

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Quote: I drove one as well near the same age and had the same feeling on the shift. Nothing bad against the car but it just was not for me. I went with a new 911 and won't look back.

As a RMS victim myself, its not the end of the world, nor should it deter you from buying a P-car. Like most members have said time and time again...the engine is bulletproof. My cousin who bought a CPO 02 cab @ same time as my '00 in June, he's getting his RMS taken care of under warranty. Im out $1400, but again, no regrets...luv the Pcar!

Don't worry about the salesman. Once you buy the car, you will never see him again unless you trade or upgrade to a new Fcar. As for the trans, i agree with everyone that manual is better. But the F1 isn't total garbage. It's similar to SMG and the LP560 egear. It will be quick shifting if you are accelerating quickly. You do not need to lift off of gas when shifting btw. If I recall, the shift time is around 80ms. However, manual is more fun, less costly to fix, and will hold value better.

Quote: i think C4S started in 2002. i also don't think there is any changes up to 2005. i bought my 02 from a private seller. but for assurance, a dealer bought the car, inspected it, and certified it. i did have to pay almost 3500 for the process. but i felt much better buying it from a dealer and with more warranty, also got a better lease rate from porsche. my original 4 year warranty ends next march. i was able to get few things taken car of. afterall, the extended one is not the same. for example, rattles is definitely not covered. i also got my exhaust tips replaced due to few peeled spots. it is an awesome car. you will love it.

The 360 doesn't require the engine to be removed for a major service. The 348/355 does. And a 360 is much easier to find an a 6-speed manual, which is probably going to fare much better in the long term, both in reliability and resale. I own a 360 with a manual, and you really can't beat the sound that comes from a mid-engined v8 Ferrari. However, there is nothing inexpensive about owning a Ferrari, including scheduled maintenance.

Quote: Corey: Ordered it January '04 (after seeing all the 997 spy shots and hating it). Got it May '04. 8k miles, absolutely showroom perfect. I love the car. Got a call the other day about a TTS Cab, Guards. Not yet ready to make that jump, but considering if the money works out. It's got a few miles on it, so we'll see how much they want to sell it. With the 997 TT around the corner, and winter approaching, it would have to be an irresistible offer. Especially since the C4S Cab is just about everything I'd want in a car.

I'm sure you already know this now but Berlinetta = coupe. Spyder = convertible. I didn't know it the first 6 months I owned a 430 but did when I traded for my 599. F1 transmission is light years ahead of the M6 SMG which I suffered through for a couple of years. Nothing will compare to PDK or DCT...

Quote: You should definitely have a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) done by a Porsche dealer if buying the car from anybody other than a dealer. If you're buying from a dealer, and the car isn't CPO (and maybe even if it is) then you should ask them to take car to another Porsche dealer to do a PPI. It'll only cost you $200 and it can save you thousands and a lot of possible headaches in he future! Also, make sure to ask the dealer for a full dealer warranty and service history. They can do this based on the VIN. Quote: See above. If the PPI is clean, and the warranty and service history check out ok, then you should be fine. These are very reliable cars. Quote: If the car has a history of RMS issues, stay away from it since they can reoccur. In general, if the car hasn't had any RMS issues by 35-40K miles, it probably won't have any. My C4 got its first (and only) RMS leak at 32,500 miles and that's one of the higher mileage ones I've heard of for a first time. Quote: The C4S started in 2002 and there were no changes between then and when it ceased production for the 2005 model year.

Will a 2008 F1 be better than a 2005 or 2006?

All 996 had a change in 2003 and up to MOST, with PCMII vs PCMI. So if you are looking at a 2002 with Nav vs a 2003 with Nav get the 2003. If you are looking for a car and want to put a new stereo system in get an 02 it's easier and no fiber optic.

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Quote: Yes, many improvements/fine tweaking and of course, carbon ceramic brakes as standard. Trans ECU tweaked for better shifting. While the steel brakes work fine, carbon ceramic adds more value to the car when you decide to sell and get your next mid-engined V8 Ferrari.

Thanks for the replies everyone. The one I'm looking at is a 2002 w/ nav from a private party. He's a former 6-speeder and from the pictures it seems like it's in excellent condition. I should know in the next few days whether I'm moving...which means time for a new car!! Much appreciated - hope to be a "real" member soon...

Quote: Thanks! Are the ceramic brakes durable, less wear?

bk9, You are a real member already, Welcome to the 6speed family, It is not a pre-requisite to own a p-car to participate in this forum.. Good Luck with your decision.

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Quote: The manual is going for about $80k more than the F1 because it is much better and there is a crazy manual thing happening with sports cars these days. Your comment above of a TTS beating a 12C is . My modified 997GT2 easily walked away from my friends 997.2TTS with mods. My 12C will in stock form will annihilate both of them. From a dig the AWD of the TTS will beat most cars until 60mph than they will reel it in and walk away. Your science doesn't make sense, TTS cab weighs 800lbs more than a 12C and has about 80hp less. Plus every video test shows the 12C catching a beating the TTS in the quarter. Back to the OP, I have had a SCUD and had a few friends with a f430 and none of them really liked it. I loved my SCUD but the attention it got made me drive it less and less until I got rid of it. I understand your need for something more but I think you will regret a f430.

Quote: I'm not an electronics guy so this would make absolutely zero difference to me!

Probably the best looking 996 ever made.