Engine Problems - Warranty?? Help!!!

Hello!!! I need some help from you fine Porsche experts. I own a 2009 Porsche Cayman (base) with PDK automatic. While driving to get lunch, my car makes a funny noise and drops dead. Can't start the engine and I tow my car to the local dealership for analysis. I find out my car has 3 blown valves?? "Engine looks to be dead, you may need a new one" Does warranty cover this?? What in the world could I have done to blow my engine that has only 5,000 miles on it?? I get questioned about chips and altering the computer system. Never touched it. I only touched my exhaust (replaced stock with a Tubi) which I was told has nothing to do with my engine (at least I was told by many mechanics). I am so depressed because I bought the car of my dream and here I am with a potential bill if they void my warranty. Please help. I am going to find out tomorrow more details as to what could have caused this problem. I am almost at a lost for words and the cost will honestly push me to losing my car. Any advise would be appreciated.

how did you break it in ? did you check/change oil ?

If you didn't abuse the engine (e.g., no over-rev), I don't see why PCA won't cover this under warranty. G'luck!

I changed my oil at around 3,000 miles per the suggestion of some members on this board. Did I over-rev it? It's a porsche, I took it easy for the first couple thousand miles, but cranked it up after 4k miles. How can I overrev the engine when it's an automatic? Is that even possible, I thought the gears shift automatically? Call me an fool, but I thought this car was fool proof on a pdk .

In order to void your warranty, they must prove that your modification caused the problem. I highly doubt that your exhaust caused any engine issues. The dealer can look at the computer and see if you "over revved" the car and how many times, but as you said, its a PDK , so that shouldn't even be an issue. Even if you didn't change the oil, the car only has 5,000 miles!!! They can't blame you for that.

Thanks Green Bean. I mean, I feel like the dealership isn't on my side - scary how much power they have with issues like this. Anybody I can call from Porsche who may help "just in case"? Considering I dont even know how severe the problem is, I've been thinking about calling a lawyer to cover myself. Anybody on the board ever deal with warranty issues with Porsche that can lend any advice?

No need to get all defensive about it. You don't need to convince me you didn't abuse the car. If you know you didn't abuse the car, then no need to over-react. Just my 2 cents, but I wouldn't go to your dealer with the above tone of response...even if you're frustrated to no end.

I would have a glass or two of wine, go to sleep and you will find out more factual information tomorrow, at this point you are suffering from FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) since you don't have facts. See what the dealer says and then you can either react or celebrate, you are just driving yourself crazy tonite.:beer::beer:

I think you mean Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (PCNA), based in Atlanta, Ga.

I don't know, but maybe the engine had a build flaw. Don't know if s bad tank of gas could cause such damage, maybe?

If you don't have any fatal over rev's in zone 5 or 6 they should cover it. My experience is thst they seem to expect over rev's in Z 1&2 To get into z 5 or 6 you need to blow a down shift or reset the rev limiter

Get the dealership's diagnosis first, then see what they propose that they do. Based upon what you have told us, there is no way they will deny warranty coverage. As far as the proper attitude is concerned, if they are anything less than customer service oriented and professional, then **** them. Dealerships prey on the weak. It is sad, but true. Any bad attitude on their part should be met with an immediate call to Porsche of North America. Call them directly and get the rep on the phone that handles service issues at dealerships. I would not wait for the dealership to act if they give you a bad feeling. PCNA reps treat people with respect and courtesy and are extremely professional based upon my experience, unlike the clowns at the dealership. It is sad that this is required to get the service they should deliver by default in many cases, but it may be your only option. You should expect to be treated like a customer, not a suspect or an idiot. It is their job to deal with someone who is justifiably concerned. They should be reassuring you and setting expectations properly without promising anything other than adherence to a proscribed procedure moving forward. In a friendly way. I have tried both ways. My people pleaser personality got me condescension and lies in return. Sad, but true. Good luck. My prediction: No problem. Engine will be replaced. Freak occurrence. :cheers:

You should not have any warranty issues. To deny an engine warranty claim based on an aftermarket exhaust they (dealer/MFG) would have to prove that the exhaust caused the engine to fail. Aftermarket exhausts are in common use and I can assure you that would not be the case if total engine failures were a common result of their installation. As stated above the diagnostic computer tells the dealer whether or not the engine has experienced any overrev conditions that could damage the engine. A brand new engine will likely be the solution. This is not a problem. Keep us posted.

Interesting take. My experience was the exact opposite. My dealer was very professional and honest about problems with Cayman engines, brakes & power steering. PCNA was professional in that they did everything by the book, but they absolutley refused to admit that there where and are issues with oiling, AOS , soft & ice brakes and power steering. Changes to the engine oiling, power steering lines & cooler and brakes are not "fixes" they are "engineering improvements" A classic case of CYA If this car wasn't tracked or over revved PCNA will cover it

My experience has been @#$% from both PCNA and the dealers. If the above from the OP are facts it will be interesting to hear the reason for not covering under warranty.

Hi James, I'm sorry to know that you have engine problems on your 2009 Cayman. Did you ever note bluish smoke (sometimes a huge cloud) upon cold start-up from your exhaust ? The reason i'm asking is the fact i've faced this smoking problem and have returned my 2009 Cayman because of that. So, what has this got to do with you and your problem? Well, first it is also a 2009 base Cayman and since you've mentioned 3 blown valves on such a low mileage engine, it has strengthen my belief that there is a build flaw with these engines regarding (1) too much valve guide clearance or (2) internal head cooling issue leading to excessive valve guide wear in result of excessive heat (how was the coolant level? - the 'thing' seems to disappear by itself!!! ). (1) and (2) would explain the smoke upon cold start-up. You can learn more from this video . Either way, the valve to seat sealing will probably deteriorate much more rapidly than if the clearance was to spec and you will probably also have a better chance of “burning” a valve, as it seems to be the case with your engine. And, as you already have guessed it only will get worse if the engine is revved too often and too hard. PS: Porsche has a TSB addressing the blue smoke out of the exhaust upon cold start-up ONLY for the 2009 base Cayman's and Boxter's. It consists in a mere DME software update - yeah right! As expected it didn't solve the problem on my Cayman, and i even went as far as to have the AOS (air/oil separator) replaced which didn't help either.

What is the build date?

Are you aware of any build date related issues on gen II base Cayman's?

No but I was just wondering if yours was the 1st batch made in 08 vs one made later in 09. I think yours is the 1st Gen II engine problem so far as I haven't read of any others. The Gen II has been out now for almost 2 years so I think it may be an abnormal defect in your engine and not a design flaw.

There is others base gen II from some members here - extanker comes to mind, if i remember correctly - evidencing oil smoke upon cold startup, sometimes BIG clouds of smoke. And now there is jamesp07 who has 'burned' 3 valve in a 2009 gen II base Cayman with a very low mileage engine. People here seem to accept the blue smoke upon start-up as a normal trait of these engines, but Porsche has a TSB adressing that same issue, regarding all 2009 Caymans and Boxters, acknowledging that a problem exits and therefore it's NOT a normal condition but a design flaw. 1st batch was made later in 08 and as such is considered already MY09, precisely what the TSB addresses. Mine was also a MY09 Cayman - #98Z9U750#. I'm convinced that the blue smoke upon cold start-up is a predecessor of what will follows with time. In James' case it didn't took long (provided that his cayman smoked upon cold start-up): That's the reason why, after ruled out several possibilites, i returned my Cayman: before James' problem would happen to me as soon as i would start to crank the engine up which i didn't for obvious reasons. The car had around 10,000 miles.

Well, it's been 3 days now, whats the verdict? Is the problem being covered?

How noticable is the smoke and how much? What color? Anyone have a link to the TSB?

Is this what people with Caymans have been experiencing? If so, then I would have noticed mine do it and have never seen my CS smoke on start up. Smoke on Vimeo

Was there anything new done to the 2.9 engine in 09?

If the TSB only adresses MY09 Caymans /Boxters i'm assuming that the problem was corrected in later production: MY10.

yes...I agree and no hurry to buy right now. Was even thinking a Gen I to be safe as it would be good for her as she would never be tracking it or pushing it hard.....they have been very reliable if not aggressively tracked stock.

Yes... most of the times this kind of problems only show up when you push the car/engine hard enough otherwise it can take years until the problem become undeniable. It's possible that you can run a MY09 gen II base Cayman for a couple of years without any issues other than the smoke upon cold start-up, it all depends on the number of miles and the 'quality' of those miles. This is the kind of 'math' ( vs number of units sold and cost involved) that the manufacturers do before deciding to make a recall. Base Caymans represent residual sells for Porsche around the world.

ive got 6 grand on mine and had the dealer do the 1 year service on it wed. 3 hrs after i got home i started the car ....puff puff...go figure...if my valves would go i could get my money back...09 cay....porsche..what was i thinking

The exhaust valve stems on my 93 RSA were worn below spec with 15,000 miles. I went ahead and rebuilt the engine. After I got into it everything else looked new. You never know.

I think you should be ok for a while... i've got this sensation that you drive your cayman like a slow tank and only when you're at war with your neighbours... say, on weekends!

The question is... who pays?

All, Thank you for responding to my posts. It's interesting to see some of the comments. Looks like I got a lemon. Worst part is I have NO IDEA when I'm getting my car back - "I'll let you know when we know" is what I get from the dealership. "We got no loaners for 2 weeks, sorry" I'm sorry to say, but I am never purchasing a Porsche again. Now that I'm done pissing and moaning, here's my update. Dealership offered to replace my engine - no clue if it's a remanufactured engine or a new one - gut feeling tells me I'm getting a refurbed motor - hopefully it works this time. Every time I start my car, yes, I got TONS of smoke, but I was told, "This is normal for all Porsches" - quote from the dealership. So I let it fly. One thing I did notice was my oil cleared QUICK - went from FULL to EMPTY after 2k miles. Dealership told me this was normal bc I'm burning through it - not sure how accurate this is, but a few thousand miles later my motor went. This is despite me adding oil AND doing an oil change. If they give me an updated engine, will it be a 2010 engine? Makes me wonder. I wonder also how many issues people had on the 09 Cayman base models. The worst part is this...burn your engine out after your warranty coverage - yikes. Porsche needs to do something about this if this is a bigger issue with all 09 base caymans. I would be VERY nervous if I was an owner of an 09 base cayman on this board - I feel fortunate this happened so early, but if this happened post warranty, I would have probably went ape s**t.

I have a brand new '10 base, about 2,200 miles and haven't burned a drop of oil

as far as the car checking the oil level...i used none...but you would think i went through quarts with the smoke hot and cold

James, Do you actually know what valves did failed, intake or exhaust ? How was your coolant level? For a more comprehensive view of the problem "too much valve guide clearance" : «WORN VALVE GUIDES When the guides are worn or there is too much clearance between the guide and valve stem, the engine will use oil. This applies to both intake and exhaust guides. Though oil consumption can be more of a problem on the intake side because of constant exposure to engine vacuum, oil can also be pulled down the exhaust guides by suction in the exhaust port. The flow of exhaust past the exhaust guide creates a venturi effect that can pull oil down the guide. Oil in the exhaust system of late model vehicles with catalytic converters may cause the converter to overheat and suffer damage. On the intake side, oil drawn into the engine past worn intake guides can foul spark plugs, cause the engine to emit higher than normal unburned hydrocarbon (HC) emissions, and contribute to a rapid buildup of carbon deposits on the backs of the intake valves and in the combustion chamber. Carbon deposits in the combustion chamber can raise compression to the point where detonation occurs under load. Deposits on the backs of the intake valves in engines equipped with multipoint fuel injection can cause hesitation and idle problems because the deposits interfere with proper fuel delivery. Inadequate valve cooling and premature valve failure is another problem that can be caused by worn guides or ones with excessive clearance. About 75% of the heat from a typical valve is conducted to the seat, and the remaining 25% goes up the stem and out through the guide. On late mode engines with three-angle narrow seats, the amount of heat transfer that takes place through the stem is even higher because less heat can be dissipated through the seat. So if the guide is worn, the valve may run hot and burn. Worn guides can also pass air. "Unmetered" air drawn into the intake ports past the guides creates an effect similar to worn throttle shafts on a carburetor. The extra air reduces intake vacuum and upsets the air/fuel calibration of the engine at idle. The result may be a lean misfire problem and rough idle. VALVE FAILURE Worn guides can also contribute to valve breakage. The guides support and center the valves as they open and close. A worn guide [or too much clearance between the guide and valve stem * ] will allow the valve to wobble slightly as it opens, which cause it to drift off-center with respect to the seat. This can cause the head of the valve to flex slightly each time it closes (much like a valve with a nonconcentric seat). After so many cycles, the metal fatigues and the head of the valve breaks off from the stem. Generally speaking, the intake valve stem-to guide clearance for most passenger cars ranges from .001 to .003 in., and .002 to .004 in. for exhaust guides (which generally require .0005 to .001 in. more clearance than the intakes for thermal expansion). Diesel engines as a rule have looser specs on both intake and exhaust guides than gasoline engines, and heads with sodium-filled exhaust valves usually require an extra .001 in. of clearance to handle the additional heat conducted up through the valve stems.» * this is a note of mine.

extanker, You can read on the manual, page 188: «If the vehicle is used for repeated short trips, and consumes a normal [or a higher * ] amount of oil, the engine oil measurement may not show any drop in the oil level at all, even after 600 miles (1,000 km) or more. This is because the oil is gradually becoming diluted with fuel or moisture, making it appear that the oil level has not changed.» * this is a note of mine. I think you need to drive your car at high speeds: «The diluting ingredients evaporate out when the vehicle is driven at high speeds, as on an expressway, making it then appear that oil is excessively consumed after driving at high speeds.» You don't use your car a lot, do you?

Jamesp07, I've been following your thread since day one. First, congratulations on having your engine replaced under warranty... now you can relax and sleep well. Not knowing when the car will be back or what engine will be installed is not an issue. Second thing, I'm not sure who is to be blamed you or your dealer! How could you believe someone saying the smoke is something normal with all Porsches! And then how could you believe it was ok to run out of oil in 2000 miles while the manual says the change of oil is every 25000 mile or so!!! I cannot believe a dealer for a Lada would say so about his cars let a long a dealer for Porsche... and if so, I do blame you for not reading the manual to educate yourself about the masterpiece of engineering you have in hand. A manufacturing default can happen with space shuttles, it is not a big deal. That's why you have warranties... and for your info, your car's warranty can go up to seven years. Tell me a single car manufacturer who can give you that! Whether you wanna buy a Porsche ever again or not, that's up to you. And your disappointment can be justified. But my advice to you is to read the manual in hand to educate yourself about what you're about to drive in few weeks when your car inshallah will be back. Oh and something else, go find yourself a better dealer to service your car.

Any bluish smoke upon start-up?

Hyundai, go figure... better than that actually: AMERICA'S BEST WARRANTY 10-YEAR / 100,000-MILE http://www.hyundaiusa.com/warranty....d start-up is normal with Porsches.:rolleyes: An indy may say otherwise... ;)