cc sat, 11/26/05

wondering who is going? im rolling usual meet spot 7am off culver exit from the city of irvine from la. 405s exit culver make a right left on michelson the corner where there is atorn down gas station it think 20c4sis going albert tooi think .. hopefully the usual guys show up

After 6 Porsches, including a 993 Turbo and both 993 and 996C4Ss, it was time for a new car. The question wasn’t which car, but whichPorsche. Unfortunately, a quick check revealed that none of the high endPorsches have manual transmissions. I briefly considered switching to PDK, butautomatics simply suck the life out of me. So what could I do but searchelsewhere My first choice was a Viper GT. I even set up the purchaseand arranged to drive 30 miles to the dealer that had the colors and options Iwanted. Good thing I sat in it before I signed anything. The roof extends sofar into the windshield that I couldn’t see the horizon! Damned My next choice was the Z06. This time I went down to thelocal Chevy dealership before anything else, and low-and-behold, I didn’t fitin the Z06 either. My head only brushed the roof, but after 3 years in a 928Swith the same clearance, I knew that bumps and constant shrugging wouldeventually evolve into a love/hate relationship. My next choice was a used F430, but I couldn’t find a manualtransmission with the colors and options I wanted anywhere in the country.Well, there were 2, but the owners (rightfully) believed that the manualtransmission was worth an additional $50K. So the Ferrari was out of reach. My next choice was a used Gallardo, but test drives of “showroomcondition” models revealed that it’s not really the daily driver some wouldhave you believe. I almost purchased a Verde Ithaca 6 speed anyway, but thedealership wouldn’t budge on price and wouldn’t accept a Porsche trade-in. DoubleDamn Then I drove an Aston Martin V12 Vantage. It really, reallysucked, but I could tell that a less nose heavy version with a manualtransmission would be perfect! So my search began Since the model hasn’t changed since 2010, my requirementswere “only” 2010 to Present, Manual, Grey or Titanium, Sat Nav, Sat Radio, 700Watt Sound and cruise control, hopefully with 20 spoke diamond cut wheels.Three months later I found it, a Quantum 2011 with the options I needed. Andthe dealer was negotiable and accepted my trade-in for a fair price. WooHoo! It’s been over a year since, and I couldn’t be happier. The 420 hp motor is a bit less than optimal, but it soundslovely. And if I ever get the itch, The Bamford Rose headers and cats can add40hp, and the Velocity filters, tune and dual clutch / LFW can add another40hp. It’s a lot like modding a Porsche, $10K for 80hp, and you get to keep thebalance and ride of the factory original vehicle. So yea, there IS a substitute.

I'm debating whether I should go...if the weather is clear (no chance for rain) I'm in

I would have guessed you would be very happy. I have had Porsches for nearly 10 years starting with a Boxster S then moving up through 996's to GT2 and 997 Turbo before going classic with IROC recreation and 964 cup, 993 3.8c2 and 964 Turbo. I LOVE Porsche but the market is crazy and prices for some stuff has more than quadrupled. I refuse to play in an overinflated market. I moved to Lambo but found the 4WD system fairly unrewarding after I spent enough time in it and the clutch seemed to be made of candy. I then went to a F430 and loved it but it had some issues so it had to go. I recently bought a V12V because a friend kept talking about them so I drove one to see what the fuss was about. Besotted is the right word!

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Quote: Congrats, and welcome to the fold. I totally understand the desire for a manual transmission, they are deal breakers for me too. And.... we do some great headers/cats too

I just wrote this in the ad for the N420 in the cars for sale section: I have a 13 and this isn't my first sports car. I had a light 911 C2 that was a blast to drive, an M5 that was violent in a straight line but handled like a tank, and a 550hp 996TT. Fun but just not inspiring The Aston V8V is a wonderful car. It oozes sex appeal with the aesthetics being just about perfect. Although heavy the weight distribution and really well sorted chassis make it feel much lighter than it is. It's the last of the analog cars so you get fantastic feedback from all controls except maybe the throttle. It could use some more torque but if you drive it hard you will be rewarded with gobs of fun. This is the most enjoyable car I've ever owned and I will keep it for a long time.

I love my car, and am not a big "Porsche Guy", but after driving my friends Cayman GT4 (only available with a true manual trans), I could be tempted by that thing.

Those are great cars, but aren't they selling for $25k over MSRP? If they keep production numbers down it will be a classic someday.

Yeah, they are. Ludicrous money, though I'm sure they are a future classic. Brilliant package and design; finally allowed to compete with 911 performance.

I agree that the new Cayman GT4 is a great sports car, but a classic? Seems that Porsche is doing all it can to keep the Cayman/Boxster in the "Poor Man's Porsche" category. Although the German translation for "poor" isn't exactly clear...

If I was going to get another Porsche, which I'm not for at least a long while, it would be the GT4. It's almost like the bean counters goofed and let the engineers produce a perfect car right in the middle of the lineup.

Having recently traded my 2008 Carrera S cab with 2800 miles for a new V8V coupe, I am certainly in a position to comment on the issue. Over the years I have owned at least ten 911s (1972 to 2008). They are beautifully engineered and arguably have the best build quality of any marque. While surfing the Internet in late May I stumbled across a new Volcano red Vantage coupe with MT at Washington, DC Aston. Four days later the new Aston arrived in an enclosed single car carrier, the Porsche was loaded in the carrier and I now owned my first Aston. Perhaps I just needed a change but the Vantage makes me smile just walking into the garage. Clearly one of the prettiest modern cars, it attracts even more attention than my new R8. Porsches are great cars but IMO significantly less interesting than our beloved Astons.

I've had 7 928's... My orange 450 HP chevy powered one I sold in the recession is on ebay for sale for $17,000, about what the paint job cost! Anyway, tomorrow I'm buying my 3rd Vantage, a slightly used 2015 GT... Once your bitten, can't go elsewhere!

I find the Porsche to Aston defection interesting. I've never, ever wanted a Porsche, at least not a 911. A 914 on the other hand, I might enjoy. Anyhow, I should want a 911. It's quirky (design and package). It was an underdog that has stuck to it's guns and come out on top over and over again, constantly silencing critics. But still, they've never spoken to me. I don't like the sound. I don't like the styling (until the 2014). I don't care for the overall package. But I deeply respect the car and those who love them. Meanwhile, Aston Martin first spoke to me when the DB7 (and it's cousin the XK) were unveiled. It helped that I was at Art Center, surrounded by other car guys and we all encouraged each other's lust. I knew next to nothing about the brand, its history, story, anything. I knew they were expensive, fast(ish) and most of all beautiful. Certainly the most beautiful thing on the road at the time. And that's how it's been. I don't care what's faster, more g-ier, lower, louder, more powerful. The Aston Martins that I love are fast enough. They're more quietly beautiful than their peers. Their song is more alluring than any other. I wish the 911 all the fans and success it deserves. But I always do love knowing when one of her suitors comes over to the Aston Martin ball.

IbisRider not only appreciates and understands the asthetics of the car world-he is a wonderful writer. I very much enjoyed reading his comments

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Quote: Amen.

I have always been (and believe I will always continue to be) a Porsche die hard. I love the 911 in a more thorough and rounded way than I love any other car. That said, 3 years ago, owning three different 911 generations at the time (993, 996TT and 997) I decided to do something different and bought a Vantage. Always loved the looks and respected the car but hadn't looked at them too seriously until I decided to buy one on a bit of a lark. Fast forward to today and while I remain a Porsche guy, I'm down to just one 911 in the stable and I don't really miss the other two. If I had more garage space though, I would have added a GT4 (buddy offered me an MSRP allocation a few months ago that I had to pass on, sadly) or a 991 GT3RS ($$$ ouch) or even an older 911 convertible for slow cruising drives on nice summer nights. Anyway, the point is, while I'm more loyal to Porsche, Aston makes a fine automobile! But I still can't imagine not having a 911 in the garage...

I drove a 4.3L V8V and a 997 C2S before deciding an the Vantage. The C2S was an excellent car, but that was it. It was a great car. The Aston tickled my unmentionables in the good ways. 4 years later, no ragrets.

So are you saying the v12 vantage really sucked because of the tranny, nose heavy, or both. I had an 07 vantage a few years ago and recently drove a v12 and was blown away by the difference (both manuals). Just never heard anyone say the v12 really really sucked except for the sportshift, but even that has been heavily debated on this forum.

I think I could speak to what the OP is talking about. I used to have V12V and traded it for a F360, but recently acquired a V8 GTS convertible – a nice addition to a DBS that I own. All the cars are manuals. The V12 has an unmatched tone to the engine note, and though the V8 sounds great, its just not the same. The V12 is a silky smooth engine with noticeably more power and torque than the V8. Though the V8 isn't bad on the power, stepping into a V12, I could understand how someone would be blown away. I wouldn't say the V12V sucked, but I can understand where the OP is coming from. That said, something about the heavier engine on a shorter front makes the car feel nose heavy, especially on the hard turns around back roads. Yes Aston made some suspension adjustments to compensate for the extra weight, but I will say sometimes going over bumpy roads the front end felt harsh. The same engine on the DBS feels a lot more appropriate and doesn't have the same weighty front feeling as the V12.

Interesting comments and an enjoyable read. I own a V12V and a 997 C2S. To me, they are different machines and even serve slightly different purposes - room for both in the garage! The Porsche being more all around useable and less finicky. A car that will take on whatever weather conditions you throw at it and can be parked almost anywhere without much concern. A car that (in my head) is perhaps more reliable and provides a measure of comfort with the massive dealer network and aftermarket support to back it up. The sound it makes is extremely different - but I admit I love both, the Porsche having a more mechanical, precise and purposeful whirring. The Aston is a more upscale, beautiful offering that is perfection for the right occasion. WAY more of a sense of drama with a visceral, analog feel. A true brute-force engine, but wrapped in an alluring, luxurious package. Less perfect as well - but in a good way. Certainly more of a bespoke build with generally much higher quality materials. Obviously much more rare for those in the know to see on public streets. The sound of the V12, especially with the exhaust opened up a bit, is in very rare territory within the automotive world - truly a special sound, especially when the right combination of RPM and throttle create a certain perfect tune.

old post here but i'll throw in my 2 cents about the v8v vs v12v. i had a manual v8v and now a manual v12v. had them both concurrently for about a month. the v8 was a 2014 so the best in terms of steering rack ratio and brakes. 2012.25+ v8 steering rack is fantastic, super direct, great feel and control. the v12 feels like a slower ratio with some more deadzone in center. the v8 obviously excels in balance. the engine doesn't feel like it's way in front of you (as it's a mid front engine). not to mention the car weighs significantly less. all of this correlates to a better handling car. my v8 was non sports pack, so comfort suspension. it was genuinely comfortable for street use. the ride quality was better than the v12. funny though, cause if it wanted to track, it would be the v8. if it want to cruise, it would be the v12. that said, the v12's positives: sounds magnificent. even though both cars have some aftermarket exhaust components. the v8 was nice for sure but the v12 combined with the v12's starter makes the cold start so damn beautiful and fits the car. has power. even though it's only ~100 more hp/torques, it tries to break the tires lose in lower gears. the mid range power is fantastic, quite nice for a street car. the v8 wasnt slow but just felt like it lacked torque and needed to rev to enjoy. the clutch is phenomenal. perhaps some of the credit is due to the flywheel but this is how any clutch should feel. now as far as porsche, they are great cars, easily the better daily, cheaper if you track. the lightness is nice but i'm not one that agrees about the feel of 911s. compare a 997 c2/c2s manual to a v8v manual and you are likely paying a good bit more. i could never do that with how good a vantage sounds and looks (inside and out).

I have a 4.3 2007 Vantage and it is fast enough for use in the real world of day to day driving. I would like more low end torque but there is enough grunt to do most things. The 4.7 Vantage is faster so you should be happy. The only place I can open my car up is the highway because of the traffic in my city. Besides you see Porsches all the time but very few AMs. one of my best friends brought a band new Porsche 911. My car and his car were parked next to each other and he even admitted my Vantage was a great looking car.

Agree with your assessment Momo. The 4.7 could use a bit more low end torque like the v12, but I prefer the v8 since I have the v12 dbs - really makes the difference between the two cars apparent. If I was only to have one, I’d opt for the v12 for the engine noise and the rarity.

Porsche makes more vehicles in a month than Aston Martin did in the whole 12 year run of the previous generation Vantage... I like the rarity of the Aston Martin marque...

MRCW--- your verbiage perfectly captured my feelings as well. And for me, after speaking with the North American AM Rep a few months ago and review of my VIN, he mentioned that my 2010 V8V Roadster (one of 88 imported that yr to NA), 6 speed manual (one of just 22 sold that MY), and the fact that it's a Q colour, Fire Red, makes it a 'one of one' for the 2010 MY. That sort of rarity is why I have moved away from Porsche (10, in various MY and configurations), and more recently, a beautiful (but utterly soulless and without personality) 2022 C8 HTC, Z41, 3LT- Elkhart Lake Blue w/ Natl Dip interior. Nice enough, but again - no bespoke feel at all, even after the Corvette Museum ran the VIN and stated it was a 'one of one' for that year. LOVE my V8V - even after the top crapped the bed, a new clutch and new door struts. One day soon it will be 110% perfect!!

People here love the GT3. I heard one the other day. I’m probably one of the few who think it doesn’t sound that great. I’m sure it drives well. I’ll say my v8v looks much classier and unique. I’ll even go to say that it sounds throatier but not as loud as the GT3. $250k for a 911? Not sure about that.

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Quote: GT3's are everywhere now