718 GT4 limited again? - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Sorry, I'm sure this has been covered in the forum before but a quick scan I couldn't see. Is the coming 718 GT4 going to be silly limited buggering about numbers again in the Uk? thanks!

Most likely it won't be a limited numbers (eg 500), but like all GT cars the number they make will be limited by production constraints. Bear in mind though that they ended up selling (I think) 595 of the last gen in the UK, so numbers were not that limited.

I've read elsewhere about Porsche builds being suspended during the summer. If this is true - and given that the new GT4 hasn't been officially announced yet - do we think its fair to assume hat no cars will hit the market until late 2018 at the earliest?

Yep...

nudgerwilliams said: Most likely it won't be a limited numbers (eg 500), but like all GT cars the number they make will be limited by production constraints. Bear in mind though that they ended up selling (I think) 595 of the last gen in the UK, so numbers were not that limited. Ok thanks. So I take it will be produced in the GT dept/factory rather than the normal production facility and hence the production capacity issue.

Nope, same as last time and as for the current GT3 - everything is produced on the same line and all Caymans are produced at Osnabruck.

Twinfan said: Nope, same as last time and as for the current GT3 - everything is produced on the same line and all Caymans are produced at Osnabruck. Sorry I don;t know anything about their facilities - are you saying there is actually no production capacity issue or that regular Caymans suffer a supply issue as well as the GT4?

I just called Cambridge Porsche Center, and was basically told there was no chance. Lotus it is then. Thanks all.

GT4s were/will be built alongside the base/S/GTS Caymans, so the limit will be producing all Cayman derivatives for all markets over a certain period time. There are only so many build slots available for everything. You could try another OPC to see what they say, but they're not going to commit to much without the car being announced yet. Once it's declared then serious discussions can start.

Thanks Twinfan

PaulAlex said: I've read elsewhere about Porsche builds being suspended during the summer. If this is true - and given that the new GT4 hasn't been officially announced yet - do we think its fair to assume hat no cars will hit the market until late 2018 at the earliest? I would have thought the new GT4 will be announced later this year (about a year after the GTS was) & reckon more like early 2019 before we see new owners collecting their cars.

bosshog said: I just called Cambridge Porsche Center, and was basically told there was no chance. Lotus it is then. Thanks all. Thats a shame. Don't let one dealership put you off. They all differ so much in customer service & allocation criteria. If you have had no previous history of buying new Porsche's then chances are probably slim. Or you could leave it until its gets closer to the new GT4 being announced etc & pick up the current GT4 - prices may soften a little.

GameofCars said: I would have thought the new GT4 will be announced later this year (about a year after the GTS was) & reckon more like early 2019 before we see new owners collecting their cars. That about sums it up have been told this by OPC and at least they ended the speculation and confirmed what we most of us knew it is definitely coming!!

GameofCars said: Thats a shame. Don't let one dealership put you off. They all differ so much in customer service & allocation criteria. If you have had no previous history of buying new Porsche's then chances are probably slim. Or you could leave it until its gets closer to the new GT4 being announced etc & pick up the current GT4 - prices may soften a little. Unfortunately it's toys for the "in crowd" as usual. I was told by my OPC it was special customers only. Yes I could go round other OPCs on bended knee - but do I really want to? Is that the sort of outfit/company you/I really want to do business with? Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 12th January 19:35

bcr5784 said: GameofCars said: Thats a shame. Don't let one dealership put you off. They all differ so much in customer service & allocation criteria. If you have had no previous history of buying new Porsche's then chances are probably slim. Or you could leave it until its gets closer to the new GT4 being announced etc & pick up the current GT4 - prices may soften a little. Unfortunately it's toys for the "in crowd" as usual. I was told by my OPC it was special customers only. Yes I could go round other OPCs on bended knee - but do I really want to? Didn't you have (or maybe still have) a 981 Spyder from new?

GameofCars said: Didn't you have (or maybe still have) a 981 Spyder from new? No - that's probably why I'm not one of the in crowd.

bcr5784 said: GameofCars said: Didn't you have (or maybe still have) a 981 Spyder from new? No - that's probably why I'm not one of the in crowd. Araah sorry; thought I recognised your handle on this forum when I had my Spyder.

reading this question has made me wonder - early 2019 would be good timing for me and I have a good (if not 'comprehensive') relationship with my OPC - bought from them and sold back to them so they have had a chunk of money from my car in various forms (also used for servicing), so perhaps I may stand a chance of being on the chosen list...a small chance, but a chance none-the-less.

bosshog said: I just called Cambridge Porsche Center, and was basically told there was no chance. Lotus it is then. Thanks all. If you keen to get a car, then I would fine a dealer who will take an order (and some won't until the car is actually announced), put a deposit down and be patient. None of the OPCs will know how many 718s they will get yet. You definitely won't get a car unless you have an order in, to state the obvious. To increase your chances, you could find a dealer who has a 981 GT4, and buy it on the "understanding" that you would like to order a 718 when announced and would trade-in the 981. That will obviously cost you a chunk of change but would certainly increase your chances of getting a 718 slot. David

nudgerwilliams said: If you keen to get a car, then I would fine a dealer who will take an order (and some won't until the car is actually announced), put a deposit down and be patient. None of the OPCs will know how many 718s they will get yet. You definitely won't get a car unless you have an order in, to state the obvious. To increase your chances, you could find a dealer who has a 981 GT4, and buy it on the "understanding" that you would like to order a 718 when announced and would trade-in the 981. That will obviously cost you a chunk of change but would certainly increase your chances of getting a 718 slot. David Sorry for the thread revival Who would have thought that the 718 GT4 would not be sold for overs and getting one would be quite easy. Strange time we live in, but glad that more genuine owners can buy these to drive rather than as investments

EvoSid said: Sorry for the thread revival Who would have thought that the 718 GT4 would not be sold for overs and getting one would be quite easy. Strange time we live in, but glad that more genuine owners can buy these to drive rather than as investments getting one to order is still far from easy, none being sold for unders.

EvoSid said: Who would have thought that the 718 GT4 would not be sold for overs and getting one would be quite easy. I thought that all along, I fully expected to lose money on my car from day one and expected that anyone who was prepared to wait would get a car. I think C-19 has helped the situation a bit but it's also reduced production, so possibly a matching trade-off between supply and buyers.

Would be interesting if @bosshog called the same OPC and asked again. ...might get a slightly different answer rather than ..."No chance!"

Let's hope it's the same situation with the RS version !

As the owner of only one previous Porsche and no real relationship with any dealer I was very surprised to even have the opportunity to purchase one. Currently 6th in the queue with an OPC with a potential summer delivery but nothings certain and they have been very clear about that. As far as prices go. They seem to be holding steady at either list or slightly over. Cheapest GT4 on AT being £16k more than the cheapest GTS4, so holding value better given the £11k difference in retail. Edited by Adam190 on Wednesday 18th November 15:25

EvoSid said: nudgerwilliams said: If you keen to get a car, then I would fine a dealer who will take an order (and some won't until the car is actually announced), put a deposit down and be patient. None of the OPCs will know how many 718s they will get yet. You definitely won't get a car unless you have an order in, to state the obvious. To increase your chances, you could find a dealer who has a 981 GT4, and buy it on the "understanding" that you would like to order a 718 when announced and would trade-in the 981. That will obviously cost you a chunk of change but would certainly increase your chances of getting a 718 slot. David Sorry for the thread revival Who would have thought that the 718 GT4 would not be sold for overs and getting one would be quite easy. Strange time we live in, but glad that more genuine owners can buy these to drive rather than as investments Sure it’s easier than it was and I have no doubt that Covid/Brexit is playing a part in that. However, unless you have a “relationship” it’s not as easy as rock up, pay your money and get a slot confirmed for three months time. Be interested in how many they build next year/how long they keep building them?

finmac said: Sure it’s easier than it was and I have no doubt that Covid/Brexit is playing a part in that. However, unless you have a “relationship” it’s not as easy as rock up, pay your money and get a slot confirmed for three months time. Be interested in how many they build next year/how long they keep building them? I think you are spot on Much easier but but still not as easy as it should be I think we have had 2-3 productions runs of Manuals and we should get the same as PDK. On the plus side it sure has stopped a lot of the flippers getting a hold of these cars

Adam190 said: As the owner of only one previous Porsche and no real relationship with any dealer I was very surprised to even have the opportunity to purchase one. Currently 6th in the queue with an OPC with a potential summer delivery but nothings certain and they have been very clear about that. As far as prices go. They seem to be holding steady at either list or slightly over. Cheapest GT4 on AT being £16k more than the cheapest GTS4, so holding value better given the £11k difference in retail. Edited by Adam190 on Wednesday 18th November 15:25 Not sure about your rationale. It all depends what factory options are on the GT4 you are comparing to a GTS4 otherwise its apples and pears.

Agreed. Its not a full proof model but gives you a general idea. Has been tracking in a similar way for a while now though, so some facts to it.

There’s an amazing black massive spec at OPC Sutton Coldfield i think on SOR, probably a smidge under list price. Superb spec really, if I were in the market for a 2 seater i would be tempted.. but promised myself to be good and with a 16mths old i will simply not use it enough, so a 992 would be the better choice. But i know which one is going to be more fun to drive or lose less value...

EvoSid said: I think we have had 2-3 productions runs of Manuals and we should get the same as PDK. On the plus side it sure has stopped a lot of the flippers getting a hold of these cars We've had 3 runs now I think: Winter 2019 Spring 2020 Winter 2020 (cars arriving now-ish) I think the Summer 2020 run was knackered due to the pandemic? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. My own personal guess is that production of the GT4RS will come after GT4/Spyder production stops, so we may get another year of them both yet...

bennno said: getting one to order is still far from easy, none being sold for unders. I think there has a been a few sold at slightly below list but they were cancelled orders, does that count as unders ? TBH as long as the they don't go for silly money I am happy as that means those who want one can get one at list which is all we ask .

GT4 deposit paid in September, not heard anything since. Reading other posts I doubt if I'll see a car before late summer. I've no idea how many are ahead of me in the "queue". Due to the uncertainty of delivery before summer, I'm seriously considering a nearly new example as there is no shortage. Even getting fussy about colour & spec, within any 3 month window there always seems to be options. Paying careful attention to prices & specs it looks like a 6-9 month old car (<2k miles) will be about £6-8k less than the OTR new price. At that price the (barely) used one starts to make serious sense.This would also bypass the OPC nonsense of preferred customer / must take ridiculously priced finance, etc, etc. May even buy a used example now and not pull the deposit incase I end up wanting to go PDK.

GRD_72 said: GT4 deposit paid in September, not heard anything since. Your OPC is screwing you over. Ask for a definite build slot/date or your money back.

Twinfan said: Your OPC is screwing you over. Ask for a definite build slot/date or your money back. Do you think so? I know they arent getting much info from Stuttgart even for parts on order?

tedblog said: Do you think so? I know they arent getting much info from Stuttgart even for parts on order? Deposit in September would be for a build in December/January. If you've not confirmed your spec or not heard anything since about delivery/delays/PEC session then you don't have an actual build slot in my opinion. it sounds like the usual "take a deposit as an expression of interest" game that some OPCs play. We need more info from GRD_72 - do you have a signed order form? Did you confirm your spec?

tedblog said: Twinfan said: Your OPC is screwing you over. Ask for a definite build slot/date or your money back. Do you think so? I know they arent getting much info from Stuttgart even for parts on order? Factory is shutdown again I think? But yeah, you don’t have anything until you’ve been given a build slot, V200 status, I think.

tedblog said: Do you think so? I know they arent getting much info from Stuttgart even for parts on order? I know of 2 people personally who had to wait about a year form confirmation / deposit to getting the car and I think I know of one person had to wait 15 months !

GRD_72 said: GT4 deposit paid in September, not heard anything since. Reading other posts I doubt if I'll see a car before late summer. I've no idea how many are ahead of me in the "queue". Due to the uncertainty of delivery before summer, I'm seriously considering a nearly new example as there is no shortage. Even getting fussy about colour & spec, within any 3 month window there always seems to be options. Paying careful attention to prices & specs it looks like a 6-9 month old car (<2k miles) will be about £6-8k less than the OTR new price. At that price the (barely) used one starts to make serious sense.This would also bypass the OPC nonsense of preferred customer / must take ridiculously priced finance, etc, etc. May even buy a used example now and not pull the deposit incase I end up wanting to go PDK. My experience was, I was offered a 718 Spyder build slot from an OPC that I hadn’t purchased from, but had serviced my cars with and bought things like winter wheels etc. I got in touch with the OPC that I had purchased my latest new cars from and had my Cayman GTS 4.0 on order with. I later got a call from them which I was expecting to be an update on my GTS 4.0, but they were offering me an October build slot for the 718 Spyder and if I wanted it they would need the 10k GT car deposit, which I paid. Later I relinquished the build slot as I would have been collecting two new cars in as many months. After some discussions with the OPC, I left my deposit with the OPC for a PTS 718 Spyder build slot, on the basis I was prepared to wait as long as it takes to get one and that it might miss out on a 718 Spyder if one doesn’t become available. Current status is I’m loving my GTS 4.0 in Python green it’s a fantastic colour only negative comments are from Glasgow Rangers fans, my Oslo Blue 718 Spyder will be built at the end of this month, aiming for 1st of March delivery.

EvoSid said: tedblog said: Do you think so? I know they arent getting much info from Stuttgart even for parts on order? I know of 2 people personally who had to wait about a year form confirmation / deposit to getting the car and I think I know of one person had to wait 15 months ! Due to COVID issues only? Other things at play in those examples I suspect.

Quick, get your orders in !! Sorry for being so cynical, they are great cars but really ... Classics take you down a different route and from a new car sales perspective don't count (unless you use the Porsche Classic dealers who are trying to nick the Porsche Classic business that has been created by all the independents ..) As it happens I own five classic P's ... plus a few others ... but none of this counts for a new car.

It's not about what you own, it's about how much you use the OPC. If you're only buying a few parts for classics here and there and they hardly know your name why would they allocate you a low-volume GT car that other regular customers are also asking for? It's just common sense to me - the cars go to customers the OPC know well, usually through them spending money there on a regular basis.

Twinfan said: I It's just common sense to me - the cars go to customers the OPC know well, usually through them spending money there on a regular basis. It is economic sense for Porsche to create a "super buyer" who will have access to limited edition cars (having paid his entry fee by buying a few "bread and butter" cars). It similarly makes sense to the OPCs to cultivate such "super buyers". But, given there is no production reason to limit production of "halo" cars such as the (so-called) GT3/4 edition - it's understandable Iif it pisses off someone who just wants to buy a "GT3/gt4". Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 10th January 20:13

@goldjono Amazing that you will have a GTS 4.0 and the Spyder. Tell me, any chance of seeing a photo of your Python Green GTS 4.0?

Richard718 said: @goldjono Amazing that you will have a GTS 4.0 and the Spyder. Tell me, any chance of seeing a photo of your Python Green GTS 4.0?

Wow, that is absolutely stunning: thank you so much for sharing that. My GTS4 is Carrara White. Nice but not like that!

bcr5784 said: It is economic sense for Porsche to create a "super buyer" who will have access to limited edition cars (having paid his entry fee by buying a few "bread and butter" cars). It similarly makes sense to the OPCs to cultivate such "super buyers". But, given there is no production reason to limit production of "halo" cars such as the (so-called) GT3/4 edition - it's understandable Iif it pisses off someone who just wants to buy a "GT3/gt4". Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 10th January 20:13 There was some spiel on them being limited due to the margins being much smaller than the regular cooking models, "they're selling these cars at a loss, don't you know". How much I believe that, I'm not sure.

Twinfan said: We need more info from GRD_72 - do you have a signed order form? Did you confirm your spec? £5k deposit paid, not spec’d the car or had a confirmed slot or spec lockdown date. I have received my invite down to PEC but for obvious reasons I’ve not used it yet.

Rojibo said: There was some spiel on them being limited due to the margins being much smaller than the regular cooking models, "they're selling these cars at a loss, don't you know". How much I believe that, I'm not sure. Complete BS I AM sure

The cars are never sold at a loss. This is complete rubbish that the journalists and dealers come up with to make the cars sound like some sort of sacrifice the manufacturer is making for its clients. Then they start using words like 'passion' when it basically is all a marketing ploy to make people spend money and raise the company's profile. However, the car could be 'sold at a loss' if you incorporate the cost of any new R&D specifically into that model only - for example a new engine that over time will have lots of applications but currently has one. Then if you limit the volume of the car - then yes in a very round about way you are selling at a loss but in terms of pure manufacturing cost + delivery vs RRP, Porsche if anyone have a healthy profit. Also as we know most manufacturers make their profits on aftermarket activity, so over the lifetime of a GT product I'm sure they do quite well.

GRD_72 said: £5k deposit paid, not spec’d the car or had a confirmed slot or spec lockdown date. I have received my invite down to PEC but for obvious reasons I’ve not used it yet. Odd you have a PEC invitation as everything else implies that you do not have a car on order. There was a recent round of allocations so you need to hassle your OPC.

It does come across that many of these Porsche dealers worked as Rolex salespeople before

Twinfan said: It's not about what you own, it's about how much you use the OPC. If you're only buying a few parts for classics here and there and they hardly know your name why would they allocate you a low-volume GT car that other regular customers are also asking for? It's just common sense to me - the cars go to customers the OPC know well, usually through them spending money there on a regular basis. I completely agree with your logic if you wish to maximise profits in the good times. But there were not always good times and I bought my first new Porsche in 1979 ... but only four since then. If I had bought five times as many from five different dealers would that make me an inferior customer ? As it happens, I haven't. But as a Porsche enthusiast with PCGB and giving passenger rides on track I must have created many sales .. Porsche can please themselves how choosey they are ... and I can please my self how critical i am of them. I am not asking for a discount ... In the longer term I believe that they are being very short-shighted ... and I will continue to say so ... unless something changes. Just look at all the flipped cars .... Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 10th January 22:45

Judging by the profit Porsche make ,which i think is equivalent to approx £14k per car sold. VW lost £375 per car so far in 2020, Porsche made £9,000 Make your own decision? Edited by tedblog on Sunday 10th January 23:13

Twinfan said: EvoSid said: tedblog said: Do you think so? I know they arent getting much info from Stuttgart even for parts on order? I know of 2 people personally who had to wait about a year form confirmation / deposit to getting the car and I think I know of one person had to wait 15 months ! Due to COVID issues only? Other things at play in those examples I suspect. No idea what caused the delay but 1 is a serial Porsche buyer form that OPC and i think has bout over 25 Porsche cars and he is proper petrolhead The one one ordered his Spyder in December 19 and did not get delivery till December 20.

ChrisW. said: I completely agree with your logic if you wish to maximise profits in the good times. But there were not always good times and I bought my first new Porsche in 1979 ... but only four since then. If I had bought five times as many from five different dealers would that make me an inferior customer ? As it happens, I haven't. But as a Porsche enthusiast with PCGB and giving passenger rides on track I must have created many sales .. Porsche can please themselves how choosey they are ... and I can please my self how critical i am of them. I am not asking for a discount ... In the longer term I believe that they are being very short-shighted ... and I will continue to say so ... unless something changes. Just look at all the flipped cars .... I think the difference is you're looking at Porsche as a whole, whereas GT car allocations are specific to each OPC. The bottom line is that there are more buyers than cars so each OPC chooses who gets them and they'll go to people they know. I agree it would be great if you could just walk in and order a GT3RS but it's never going to happen again. The GT car 'brand' has changed susbstantially since the 996 generation.

GRD_72 said: Twinfan said: We need more info from GRD_72 - do you have a signed order form? Did you confirm your spec? £5k deposit paid, not spec’d the car or had a confirmed slot or spec lockdown date. I have received my invite down to PEC but for obvious reasons I’ve not used it yet. That's exactly what my OPC wanted me to do, put £5k down for a slot on a car that wasn't even available on the configurator at the time. (Boxster 4.0GTS and they had no real information on the car's tech spec). I've never paid £5k deposit on a new car in my life before and wasn't going to start.

What I've never got with this whole limited run GT car allocation business is why would you sell a product at £150k when it's "worth" £250k on the flipped car market. Surely it would be better to make an extra £100k on each car as a manufacturer and kill the "flip" market, if the car is so popular used values would still hold up. I would have liked a 718 Spyder as my last new car, I'm 60 now, and would have cherished it, but was told in no uncertain terms I wouldn't get one and was offered an imaginary Boxster 4.0GTS slot which I refused. As it is I've reflected on the car and decided that it wasn't for me anyway, but the whole Porsche thing left a sour note in my mouth. But hey, others love the cache of having a Porsche and others are just enthusiasts, each to their own.

Twinfan said: GRD_72 said: £5k deposit paid, not spec’d the car or had a confirmed slot or spec lockdown date. I have received my invite down to PEC but for obvious reasons I’ve not used it yet. Odd you have a PEC invitation as everything else implies that you do not have a car on order. There was a recent round of allocations so you need to hassle your OPC. The PEC invitations are initiated from Porsche UK and not the dealer, as such it seems my name must be properly in the system. I guess I could have sat down & spec’d the car but it makes little difference to do that now or latter really. I’m currently in limbo overseas due to ever changing covid rules & the black listing of the UK by some countries, I need 14 days out of the uk, then quarantine in my final destination, then another unknown trip length, so I’ll give it a few weeks before pushing the dealer!!

GRD_72 said: The PEC invitations are initiated from Porsche UK and not the dealer, as such it seems my name must be properly in the system. Are you sure? When I enquired about one a couple of years ago I was told to contact my dealer to trigger the request, or something similar. Unless it goes OPC -> Porsche GB -> PEC but then Porsche GB would need to confirm an actual order is in place, surely?

Holgate86 said: What I've never got with this whole limited run GT car allocation business is why would you sell a product at £150k when it's "worth" £250k on the flipped car market. Surely it would be better to make an extra £100k on each car as a manufacturer and kill the "flip" market, if the car is so popular used values would still hold up. I think if they were readily available they wouldn't sell for £250k, and the marketing value of them being seen as too cheap/aspirational/limited supply/hard to obtain is worth a lot for the Porsche brand as a whole. It's very clever and in Porsche's interests to produce just the right amount of cars to maintain the halo effect.

Twinfan said: GRD_72 said: The PEC invitations are initiated from Porsche UK and not the dealer, as such it seems my name must be properly in the system. Are you sure? When I enquired about one a couple of years ago I was told to contact my dealer to trigger the request, or something similar. Unless it goes OPC -> Porsche GB -> PEC but then Porsche GB would need to confirm an actual order is in place, surely? That’s what was explained when I bought a Macan S, OPC uploads the order (just with default spec), it processed by PUK, they send out the PEC invite, then OPC update the order prior to lockdown date. However if the car you are buying is already in the system for the dealer, and you are simply taking over the slot, then the dealer needs to get the PEC slot assigned over to you. I think.... Edited by GRD_72 on Monday 11th January 13:58

bcr5784 said: Rojibo said: There was some spiel on them being limited due to the margins being much smaller than the regular cooking models, "they're selling these cars at a loss, don't you know". How much I believe that, I'm not sure. Complete BS I AM sure Hey, don't shoot the messenger, maybe the margins on the GT products are smaller, what do we know (People have been saying the GT3/4 are too cheap for a while...). The limited supply model certainly works though Edited by Rojibo on Monday 11th January 14:09

GRD_72 said: That’s what was explained when I bought a Macan S, OPC uploads the order (just with default spec), it processed by PUK, they send out the PEC invite, then OPC update the order prior to lockdown date. However if the car you are buying is already in the system for the dealer, and you are simply taking over the slot, then the dealer needs to get the PEC slot assigned over to you. I think.... That makes sense. I just think it's odd you haven't submitted a spec, even just a placeholder one. You need to have a chat with your SA I think

Twinfan said: I think if they were readily available they wouldn't sell for £250k, and the marketing value of them being seen as too cheap/aspirational/limited supply/hard to obtain is worth a lot for the Porsche brand as a whole. It's very clever and in Porsche's interests to produce just the right amount of cars to maintain the halo effect. If it's "worth" anything over the current list then 1) Porsche would make more profit by putting the price up to whatever an unlimited production would stand - probably nothing like as much as flipped prices as you say. 2) You wouldn't p s off the 95% of Porsche owners who aren't "special". So I think the negatives to Porsche are probably greater than the positives - there's plenty of antipathy to the approach on here. The only real gainers are the flippers.

bcr5784 said: 1) Porsche would make more profit by putting the price up to whatever an unlimited production would stand - probably nothing like as much as flipped prices as you say. Didn't they do this with the Speedster? As in, put the prices up to a healthy margin and take the margin away from the flippers?

They're not stupid, if it was a rubbish strategy Porsche would have ditched it ages ago.....

bcr5784 said: 2) You wouldn't p s off the 95% of Porsche owners who aren't "special". The vast majority of Porsche owners don’t want a GT car, they have limited appeal outside enthusiasts circles, hence limited numbers produced, if everyone who wanted one could walk into a OPC and order one values would drop like a stone and adversely affect perceived brand value, which is far more important that current sales figures.

Interesting that Porsche do this with their expensive models, whereas Rolex do it with the cheap(er) ones.

Twinfan said: ChrisW. said: I completely agree with your logic if you wish to maximise profits in the good times. But there were not always good times and I bought my first new Porsche in 1979 ... but only four since then. If I had bought five times as many from five different dealers would that make me an inferior customer ? As it happens, I haven't. But as a Porsche enthusiast with PCGB and giving passenger rides on track I must have created many sales .. Porsche can please themselves how choosey they are ... and I can please my self how critical i am of them. I am not asking for a discount ... In the longer term I believe that they are being very short-shighted ... and I will continue to say so ... unless something changes. Just look at all the flipped cars .... I think the difference is you're looking at Porsche as a whole, whereas GT car allocations are specific to each OPC. The bottom line is that there are more buyers than cars so each OPC chooses who gets them and they'll go to people they know. I agree it would be great if you could just walk in and order a GT3RS but it's never going to happen again. The GT car 'brand' has changed susbstantially since the 996 generation. You may be right ... we shall have to see. The fact that so many cars are rarely driven / flipped / has only worked whilst the cars didn't follow a conventional depreciation curve. If you look at the number of GT cars now in the market and the fact that later cars are no longer holding their overs, the historical supply / demand driver that has driven all the investment "overs" may easily reverse. If it does, how low may they go ? The only offset could be significant increases in the cost of new cars ... a double edged blade. Just look at the value coming out of Toyota who also want a part of the GT market ? It will be very interesting to see how the GR brand develops ..

Selling at the price that gives alot more people the opportunity to own 1. At 100k with some cut backs and selling cars and bikes i could afford one. At 250k no chance. I could buy a rental property and return 1k a month for that money. Jees i panic leaving my car at present and that costs alot less than 250k Edited by tedblog on Tuesday 12th January 10:45

GRD_72 said: GT4 deposit paid in September, not heard anything since. I ordered mine on 11th September, and collected it from my OPC on Dec 13th. Something odd is going on with yours by the sounds of it. Cheers, Craig

ChrisW. said: You may be right ... we shall have to see. The fact that so many cars are rarely driven / flipped / has only worked whilst the cars didn't follow a conventional depreciation curve. If you look at the number of GT cars now in the market and the fact that later cars are no longer holding their overs, the historical supply / demand driver that has driven all the investment "overs" may easily reverse. If it does, how low may they go ? The only offset could be significant increases in the cost of new cars ... a double edged blade. Just look at the value coming out of Toyota who also want a part of the GT market ? It will be very interesting to see how the GR brand develops .. Very good points and I think there will be many smaller companies looking at the Toyota Yaris Gr and thinking could we do it, But bear in mind the Yaris is almost and accidental car . What we need is a return to homologation by production to compete in BTTC / Rally events and then we can have the likes of the Volvo T5, Mondeo, Cavalier, etc plus the Sccobies , Evos, Toyotas again as people want to clearly drive what others need to produce to race. Could you imagine road versions of some of the roads cars we could get like a VW CC , BMW 3 series etc and from the rally stages such as VW Polo, Hyundais, Skodas and the rest that give these smaller brands a big lift in kudos in the showroom I can only live in hope I guess :-)

ChrisW. said: Twinfan said: ChrisW. said: I completely agree with your logic if you wish to maximise profits in the good times. But there were not always good times and I bought my first new Porsche in 1979 ... but only four since then. If I had bought five times as many from five different dealers would that make me an inferior customer ? As it happens, I haven't. But as a Porsche enthusiast with PCGB and giving passenger rides on track I must have created many sales .. Porsche can please themselves how choosey they are ... and I can please my self how critical i am of them. I am not asking for a discount ... In the longer term I believe that they are being very short-shighted ... and I will continue to say so ... unless something changes. Just look at all the flipped cars .... I think the difference is you're looking at Porsche as a whole, whereas GT car allocations are specific to each OPC. The bottom line is that there are more buyers than cars so each OPC chooses who gets them and they'll go to people they know. I agree it would be great if you could just walk in and order a GT3RS but it's never going to happen again. The GT car 'brand' has changed susbstantially since the 996 generation. You may be right ... we shall have to see. The fact that so many cars are rarely driven / flipped / has only worked whilst the cars didn't follow a conventional depreciation curve. If you look at the number of GT cars now in the market and the fact that later cars are no longer holding their overs, the historical supply / demand driver that has driven all the investment "overs" may easily reverse. If it does, how low may they go ? The only offset could be significant increases in the cost of new cars ... a double edged blade. Just look at the value coming out of Toyota who also want a part of the GT market ? It will be very interesting to see how the GR brand develops .. I agree I think we’re at the end of the big premiums for GT cars. Look at GT3 prices....when 991.2 GT3 was launched 991.1 GT’s were £130k plus so at a premium to list. 991.2 GT3 is below list and we still haven’t had the new car launched. First flipped cars of 991.2 GT3 were £50k over list at £180k and about £40k more than 991.1 GT3. Or another way to look at it 991.2 GT3’s specced up new were £130k which was the same price as a used 991.1 GT3 at the time . This time a 992 GT3 is going to be probably £30k more than than 991.2 GT3. (£150k vs £120k) Also when 991.2 GT3’s were commanding £180k in the first six months 991.1 GT3 RS were still £200k cars. The cheapest 991.2 GT3 RS are now £170k...I just don’t see people buying 992 GT3’s for massive money over the previous RS. Once these cars only start selling for list price is when we find out how many genuine buyers there are.

Cheib said: I agree I think we’re at the end of the big premiums for GT cars. Look at GT3 prices....when 991.2 GT3 was launched 991.1 GT’s were £130k plus so at a premium to list. 991.2 GT3 is below list and we still haven’t had the new car launched. First flipped cars of 991.2 GT3 were £50k over list at £180k and about £40k more than 991.1 GT3. Or another way to look at it 991.2 GT3’s specced up new were £130k which was the same price as a used 991.1 GT3 at the time . This time a 992 GT3 is going to be probably £30k more than than 991.2 GT3. (£150k vs £120k) Also when 991.2 GT3’s were commanding £180k in the first six months 991.1 GT3 RS were still £200k cars. The cheapest 991.2 GT3 RS are now £170k...I just don’t see people buying 992 GT3’s for massive money over the previous RS. Once these cars only start selling for list price is when we find out how many genuine buyers there are. I think that’s right, plus over £150k is pushing into a rarified atmosphere for most people for anything they actually intend to drive regularly. If the market shifts such that a GT3 costs £150k can be used sensibly for a couple of years and then sold on with a relatively limited amount of depreciation compared to almost any other car... what’s not to like!!

Goldjono said: Richard718 said: @goldjono Amazing that you will have a GTS 4.0 and the Spyder. Tell me, any chance of seeing a photo of your Python Green GTS 4.0? Are you trading this in? I am looking for a Python green GTS.

Ordered my gt4 few weeks ago Delivery next month

Lenlec said: Ordered my gt4 few weeks ago Delivery next month really? So you only put the deposit down a few weeks ago? Which OPC if you dont mind me asking?

MPorsche said: really? So you only put the deposit down a few weeks ago? Which OPC if you dont mind me asking? Yes I dropped lucky I think. It was a cancelled order I had 2 or 3 days to lock my spec in. And it says end of March delivery on the order

Lenlec said: Yes I dropped lucky I think. It was a cancelled order I had 2 or 3 days to lock my spec in. And it says end of March delivery on the order Obviously no discount for filling in a last minute slot? More just be lucky you’ve been given the chance ?

MPorsche said: Obviously no discount for filling in a last minute slot? More just be lucky you’ve been given the chance ? Yes and no discount

EvoSid said: Very good points and I think there will be many smaller companies looking at the Toyota Yaris Gr and thinking could we do it, But bear in mind the Yaris is almost and accidental car . What we need is a return to homologation by production to compete in BTTC / Rally events and then we can have the likes of the Volvo T5, Mondeo, Cavalier, etc plus the Sccobies , Evos, Toyotas again as people want to clearly drive what others need to produce to race. Could you imagine road versions of some of the roads cars we could get like a VW CC , BMW 3 series etc and from the rally stages such as VW Polo, Hyundais, Skodas and the rest that give these smaller brands a big lift in kudos in the showroom I can only live in hope I guess :-) The Hyundai i20N could be quite an interesting thing ... but the same recipe as Fiesta / Clio / Mini ... the GR Yaris is something else ..

I really don't get the GR Yaris love - it's a £35k underpowered warm hatch with a few trick bits and a 3-pot engine. It's not the iconic performance bargain the original Scoob turbos were! I think they'll be a flash in the pan that will be quickly offloaded once the novelty wears off...

Twinfan said: I really don't get the GR Yaris love - it's a £35k underpowered warm hatch with a few trick bits and a 3-pot engine. It's not the iconic performance bargain the original Scoob turbos were! I think they'll be a flash in the pan that will be quickly offloaded once the novelty wears off... It's the only homologation car on sale today and many of the great road cars of the last five decades have been homologations cars so I think that's why it's getting so much attention. Reviews are pretty good so I guess the only way to know it so decide. Seems like it's got more 40 year old plus men buying it than a typical Toyota hatch back though

Is that it though - rose tinted glasses driving sales? This is nothing like the homologation specials of yesteryear as this car won't even race! Each to their own of course but it seems massively over hyped to me

As you say, each to their own and time will tell ... Underpowered ? 10 seconds to lose your licence ...

Twinfan said: Each to their own of course but it seems massively over hyped to me Like the GT4.....?

I found the GR fairly inert and, from a feedback point of view, similar to other modern hot hatches. What it is is very fast on the road, especially in imperfect conditions - could definitely show up some serious machinery. If you want a fast and comfortable daily that has the cool factor then it's a consideration. For me I was looking for a more feelsome car and not something that was just quick point to point. Depends on what you're looking for Edited by Xfe on Saturday 13th February 22:19

Xfe said: I found the GR fairly inert and. from a feedback point of view, similar to other modern hot hatches. What it is is very fast on the road, especially in imperfect conditions - could definitely show up some serious machinery. If you want a fast and comfortable daily that has the cool factor then it's a consideration. For me I was looking for a more feelsome car and not something that was just quick point to point. Depends on what you're looking for Perfect summary of my own thoughts. The Yaris is unreal in terms of ground covering. It gets to the point where you just think how f king bad is this accident going to be? With the Cayman I drove the rear let's go and you have to really think how about how much throttle each bend requires? The engine is also unrelenting till you get to 150 and then think 'is the really sensible?'. Very different approaches and for me it is going to have to be which gives me the bigger smile?

Twinfan said: I really don't get the GR Yaris love - it's a £35k underpowered warm hatch with a few trick bits and a 3-pot engine. It's not the iconic performance bargain the original Scoob turbos were! I think they'll be a flash in the pan that will be quickly offloaded once the novelty wears off... For the road, I'd take a Fiesta St instead, more fun according to the Pistenheads review..

MannyLon said: For the road, I'd take a Fiesta St instead, more fun according to the Pistenheads review.. Only 2WD though, if that's something you're bothered by. We're sticking to our M380'd Focus RS which is the perfect counter point to my 718 GT4 for us...

Twinfan said: Only 2WD though, if that's something you're bothered by. We're sticking to our M380'd Focus RS which is the perfect counter point to my 718 GT4 for us... Think the ST is more playful, but GR more planted. Something about a fast ford..

Twinfan said: Only 2WD though, if that's something you're bothered by. We're sticking to our M380'd Focus RS which is the perfect counter point to my 718 GT4 for us... Intersting as I have an Evo VI which I bought new and can't wait to see how it compares to my 981 GT4

EvoSid said: Intersting as I have an Evo VI which I bought new and can't wait to see how it compares to my 981 GT4 Evo VI v GR Yaris would be fun comparison

MannyLon said: Think the ST is more playful, but GR more planted. Something about a fast ford.. Yep, we've had this chat before! I'll take grip over playfulness any day, I'm not into sliding cars around on the road...

jjr1 said: Are you trading this in? I am looking for a Python green GTS. I am planning on trading it in.

Twinfan said: I really don't get the GR Yaris love - it's a £35k underpowered warm hatch with a few trick bits and a 3-pot engine. It's not the iconic performance bargain the original Scoob turbos were! I think they'll be a flash in the pan that will be quickly offloaded once the novelty wears off... What like the GT4.......seems strange that the car keeps appearing on Porsche forums.

You've placed an order because you like it - great, enjoy the car As with everything in life, other opinions are also available.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of purchasers are historical Porsche customers. Of course the GR Yaris is completely different, but I think in a rather good way. The days of faster, bigger, heavier, more-powerful, ... are surely numbered if only because it is all rather counter-productive in the risk / reward / fun stakes. IMHO.

ChrisW. said: I'd be interested to know what percentage of purchasers are historical Porsche customers. Of course the GR Yaris is completely different, but I think in a rather good way. The days of faster, bigger, heavier, more-powerful, ... are surely numbered if only because it is all rather counter-productive in the risk / reward / fun stakes. IMHO. I agree with your last sentence completely. More often than not I find myself disinterested in new sports/supercars simply because they just seem unusably fast for the modern road network. Modern Ferraris, Lambos...even 911s tend to come across in reviews like you have to be going illegally fast or driving like you're on a race track down a B road at breakneck speed before you get any enjoyment out of them. At least with the GT4 (and the 4.0GTS) you are doing a little less of an illegal speed before you have fun. Same reason I have been looking at F360s fora while now - I feel like I would get a thrill from the sound of the V8 even at walking pace. If anyone has heard (and I use that word ironically) the SF90, you will know what I mean about modern cars being all about speed and zero about soul... Christ, I'm getting old...