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YOUR RESEARCHCab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
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Adjust flaps
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I adjusted the flaps to this middle detent with the clamshell fully open and finally everything was back into sync!
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
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Leading evidence: 'Adjust flaps' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '(just a guess)' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust flap' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Clamshell operates perfectly and I've adjusted the potentiometer to 6.20 (After I cycled it I checked again it's at 6.12 which I'm pretty sure is not a big deal.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
Check & can see the little clamping arm thing (part
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I've checked & can see the little clamping arm thing (part that rotates & locks in the open position) operates on both sides.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
Disconnect with the motor
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It is possible that some clamshell inop problems are caused by a clamshell motor shaft that comes disconnected with the motor.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
Install & calibrated
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Once I finally got the clamshell motor installed & calibrated to 6.2 ohms, I had everything working.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
Adjust potentiometer
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Clamshell operates perfectly and I've adjusted the potentiometer to 6.20 (After I cycled it I checked again it's at 6.12 which I'm pretty sure is not a big deal.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
gearwheel
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Suspected cause
I can hear the motor working and i can open/close it manually, so i think the problem is the gearwheel which connects the motor with the potentiometer.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
top goes up and down
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Suspected cause
My latest problem is my top goes up and down using the dash switch, but the clamshell doesn't move - the car will try to lower the top with the clamshell closed.
Cab Clamshell Broken Hinge Arm - (UPDATE w/more pics!)
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67 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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put fluid in the reservoir and it worked 2 days fine.
Yesterday I found that the
clamshell
on my '99 996 cabriolet top wouldn't close properly. After a quick investigation, I found that one of the hinge arms was completely broken!
Not sure how this happened, but it looks like a stress point on the arm where it gets thinner, so it just may be fatigue.
A bit of searching yielded
this DIY on Renntech
, so I guess it's common enough. Problem is, you can't buy just the arm, you need to buy the whole mechanism for $200+.
My thought is to repair or fabricate a new arm. It's a relatively simple part. So I removed the lower part of the broken arm easily, but I can't seem to figure out how to remove the upper part. (see photo)
The upper portion of the arm pivots around a large spool-shaped "pin" that engages the latch when the clamshell closes. I can't see how to remove the pin to free the arm. Is the spool pin threaded onto a stud, or is the whole business welded in place???
Any thoughts on how to remove this?
Any help would be appreciated!
I took some more pictures in hopes of figuring out how this pin is attached. The broken piece I wish to remove is shown in the bottom two pictures below.
Any more thoughts???
No personal experience of this but looking at the photos I would say you cannot remove that pin without grinding off the flange. Looks like a pressed item to me.
You could get that pin out like that but would never be able to re use it.
Here an an option...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-05-996-PO...#ht_2338wt_945
You could negotiate with him and try to ship with greyhound to get the price down.
I missed the part about the hinge coming off as a larger assembly. Yea just spend the money. 200 is nothing for a fix like this. It would take hours to fix the hinge and if it broke, you could bend some expensive parts.
Hey all,
Thanks for the feedback. Wanting to replace the arm was as much about doing an easy fix as it was about the money. If the arm came off easily, it would be simple to replace. It's just a piece of flat stock.
Replacing the entire assembly is a bit more complicated, since you have to remove the clamshell and all the associated mechanism. But, if the upper part of the arm requires major MacGuyvering, it's probably not worth it.
It's not about getting Macguyver over the repair itself, it's about understanding the car, the mechanism, and how it works. The driver who understands how and WHY his car works a certain way is generallly a better driver than the guy who simply takes his car to the shop as an instinctual response.
A lot of us have plenty of money to pay someone to fix our problems. A lot of us have to do it ourselves. I personally respect the guy who thinks before instinctively reaching for his pocketbook
Rob
UPDATE 4-27-12:
So I went ahead and purchased a new hinge arm assembly and installed it this week. After installation, I found that the LATCH hook is not moving when the clamshell is closed. this latch holds the clamshell down when the clamshell is fully closed.
I read a few threads about the hydraulic fluid level causing problems. I found that it was a bit low, so I got some
new fluid
and topped it up. The latch hook STILL does not engage on the repaired left side!
On further investigation, it seems that the latch engages via a pushrod when the hydraulic cylinder for the clamshell reaches its fully retracted stroke. The latch pushrod is connected properly, but
the cylinder is not reaching its full retracted point
. I can't figure out what's causing this.
Before I start replacing more parts, does anyone have any idea what the problem is? Can one of the cabrio-top-mechanism experts chime it?
Getting really frustrated with this...
UPDATE 4-30-2012. The clamshell movement actuators are NOT hydraulic. I took the system apart this weekend, and the clamshell is actuated mechanically by a double-rack and pinon gearing system. I'll post an update below once I get some more info.
Just a guess but maybe the recalibration of the top controls how far the cylinder retracts.
By the way there is someone on eBay that is selling the parts from a 2001 cab including the hinges, etc. I tried to find your post the other day to let you know.
If it is not calibration it sounds like it might be a problem with the cylinder. You could try a used one from the seller on eBay, although I am not sure how his prices compare to new parts from Sunset or another dealer.
I Have not had to work on my top yet. So just brainstorming here.
What controls the cylinder stop, micro switch activation? Maybe the switch timing is set to stop the hydraulics to soon, preventing the cylinder from fully retracting?
Is that cylinder a little slower than the other. Is the rod adjustable? Is it the same length as the right side? Did it get bent when the arm broke? If the cylinder is not connected will it retract all of the way?
Mine broke also and I bought the hinge assembly. I considered DIY until I saw from the Renntech DIY the posssibilty this might be a two person job to make alignments AND I needed to remove out of the way what the author calls the motor drive.
Took into a indy shop. Mine is 99 and now I have one blue and one black hinge like you.
Did you try unclipping the push rod to see if the drive fully retracts without any tension? Does the pushrod move at all? Is it catching on anything due to misalignment?
Ok, I took the whole business apart this weekend. First of all, the drive mechanism for the clamshell is NOT HYDRAULIC.
It's all mechanical. Good German engineering.
There are sliders inside the "cylinder" that move the clamshell arm, and the latch mechanism. These are driven by cables (think bicycle brake cables), which are in turn driven by a small motor and double-rack and pinion mechanism.
The first thing I did was take apart the slider mechanism. This is a two-slider arrangement: the primary slider moves the clamshell, and the secondary slider is driven by the primary via a movable pin. The secondary slider drives the latch.
I found that the insides of this were gunked up with metal shavings, old grease, and general debris, particularly in the two recesses that house the movable pin. I cleaned this (with a young helper), regreased, and reassembled.
I was hopeful, but after reassembly, the acutator STILL did not move to it's full extent.
Next, I took apart the driving mechanism. The rack-and pinion setup seemed fine, but is a royal PITA to reassemble. I turned my attention to the sliding cable.
The driver's side cable did not slide easily. It took me probably an hour of messing with it to get the cable out of the sleeve. Lo and Behold, the problem...
The cable is a plastic-coated metal braid. The metal is twisted and bunched up, which has caused the plastic to peel. Overall, the cable is slightly too short now due to the bunching, plus it's too fat to fit smoothly inside the sheath.
I tried to remove the excess plastic, and straighten the cable with a vise as neatly as I could thusly:
This acutally worked, briefly. When I reassembled, the actuator worked properly, but once I reassembled the whole car, the added force on the slider to actually move the clamshell and latch caused it to bind once again.
I imagine when I take it apart, I will find that the cable is bent and bunched up once again. I assume the damage was done to the cable when the arm was broken, or from the debris in the slider causing it to bind when moving the clamshell.
Given that Porsche doesn't seem to sell just the cable, but the whole assembly as one piece (item #4 below), and the list price is something like $800, I am seriously considering Macguyvering something. Maybe just replace the cable with a plastic-coated cable of some kind. I'd have to figure out how to attach the ends.
Any other suggestions, let me know.
For future reference, here is what the inside of the rack and pinion drive for the clamshell looks like.
Update 5/14/2012:
Just an update to document the resolution of this problem... I tried to repair the broken cable but was unsuccessful. I ended up purchasing an entire drive assembly. I found one used, so that saved me quite a bit of money. The drive assembly (996.561.012.03) lists for $778, retails for $563 from Sunset, but I found it used for $325.
After installing the new drive system, I found that the bracket which pushes the clamshell hinge arm was misaligned with the slider pin. (see bracket picture)
Some fiddling with alignment, a small amount of bending and grinding, I corrected the alignment and got things working again. I'm not sure what was the root cause of this cascade of failures, but I'm sure they were all related.
Broken hinge arm
Debris in the sliding mechanism
Misaligned drive bracket
Damaged drive cable (bowden cable)
Perhaps I'll write up a "troubleshooting guide" for clamshell drive issues, since I've had the thing apart and back together 10 times
Oh, and I have a partial working drive system for sale. All components are good except the left side drive cable. If your's has other issues, PM me.
OMG you are a wizard. I will keep these pages as a favourite. Thanks a million and bloody well done I say. Please do a complete write up somewhere and let us know where it is. The convertible top is awesome when it is working properly but a real P I T A when its not. I know I have had lots of problems which I had to fix myself with mine. I was going to chip in to help you but you had it solved before I could haha.
Thanks for this awesome write up. I am having some problems after the clip that holds the arm to the latch on the right side of the clamshell fell off. I was able to open the clamshell by prying the latch backwards but I guess having tried to open the clamshell a few times may have taken its toll on the motor or the driving mechanism assembly. Interestingly the whole thing satrted after having been hit from behind (fortunately only killing the bumper) so I'm hoping the other guy's insurance will cover it. If not I'm an avid DIY'er and this will certainly be of help!!
I have the same issue. The top is fully functional and does successfully go all the way up and down without issue. However, not sure how long that will last with the Hinge Bracket broken as in the photo. Anyone think some JBWeld-Steel would hold or should I just leave it until the top faults or purchase hinge assembly and replace the entire deal? EDIT: Thanks go out to Frisbee91 as his write up saved me a $H]T load of time.
Whatever route you choose, make sure you attempt to figure out WHY the hinge bracket broke to begin with. My experience shows that fixing the bracket might just be the start of the fix.
Given the stresses on this hinge, I doubt JB weld would do the trick, but I haven't tried.
I am seriously considering a 60k '04 996 cabrio in the upcoming days.
I want to sell the complete convertible mechanism and manually open/close the roof '11-'12 Spyder style.
From initial googling I'm seeing these sell for well over $3500, would $1500 be unreasonable to expect:
http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=811-12
http://www.jimellisporscheparts.com/...roduct=3799675
Irrespective of the perceived inconvenience of manually working the roof, would this be a feasible idea to pursue?
Feasible? Maybe. But I can't see the manual operation of the 996 roof being practical.
There are 5 motors that operate the top system. The hydraulics that actually move the top could be replicated by simply pulling the top Spyder-style, but the other 4 would still need to be turned somehow. These are:
The clamshell movement and latching mechanism & motor
The "wings" operation motors (one on each side)
The top center latching motor.
Not sure how you would replicate that manually in any practical way. Have you actually observed the operation of a 996 top? I'm curious how you might approach this. Let us know what you end up doing. Best of luck!
Frisbee91 It sounds as if you are the "Expert" and I am chasing my tail....everything worked well until the roof on my 996cab would no longer raise or lower all of a sudden. put fluid in the reservoir and it worked 2 days fine. bought 2 rebuilt actuators the top goes up and down fine but the clam shell "may" not open fully but if so it is very very close (hard to tell). When it goes to close it does not close completely. The top will drive up fine but not latch .....never a problem before. I suspect that the failure to latch is a function of the clamshell not getting to it's right position....I am looking for advice and information like what should the omhs/voltage read on the micro switches if functioning properly?
frisbee91, next time get in touch with local motorcycle and/or bicycle indy shops. They either make cables, or have someone who does. I would be willing to bet they could build you a new cable. They may need to use some of your parts, but the cable itself would be all new.
I have had custom cables built for a number of applications.
I don't have any info on the expected voltage of the microswitches. The top operation relies on a specific sequence of events, and microswitches to indicate each step. I suspect (just a guess) that something is out of sequence in your system, since you seem to have multiple symptoms. If the system needs to be recalibrated, only a dealer (or Indy with a PIWIS) can do that. Durametric cannot recalibrate the top.
That said, I'm not sure that clamshell position dictates if the latch mechanism (that engages at the center of the windshield) can operate. Are you sure it's not just a failure of the latching system?
Thank you for the info....my thought is the synchronization.... it worked extremely well prior to replacing the hydraulic rams. I never had one issue until the fluid leaked out and when I put the fluid in it worked fine for the 2 days. When it failed after the 2 days I had started smelling the fluid in the car. The top was up and I depressed the switch and it unlatched perfectly and the clamshell retracted. After taking the rams out I expressed the remaining fluid and it flowed at will from the seal on one side. after reassembling is the first time the top would not come up far enough for the latch to operate and the clamshell to close. I will try to find and check the voltage on micro-switch that controls the both the latch and clamshell....any other thoughts? I sure the dealer will not over charge to re-synch the system....Lol I almost got that out. thank you for any assistance
@
frisbee91
I have nearly the same problem as my clamshell got stuck on the passenger side and the cable in the gear broke, so i bought a new unit for both sides and tried to mount it with the motor.
But the gearwheel wont fit in to the motor, only with beign brutal i could insert it, but when i run a calibration the clamshell does not move.
I can hear the motor working and i can open/close it manually, so i think the problem is the gearwheel which connects the motor with the potentiometer.
I bought spare parts for the motor, but the gearwheel is not in this set, so before buying a new motor maybe you can help me how the gearwheel is mounted on the motor, so that it opens the top like it should?
It's been years, so I'm not entirely sure. If I recall, there is a shear pin or shaft between the drive motor and the black plastic rack-and-pinon box. Maybe that's broken from the manual operation procedure? Post up some pictures and maybe I'll see something.
There is the motor and the piece with gear should go into the motor, but it doesnt hold.
Everytime i try i can get it out of the motor and it is not fixed.
I need to know how this is fixed, so that the motor turns it, and that i cant turn it by hand.
What year is your car? I have my clam shell drive off as well, but it looks different. I have a '99. Mine is blue, and the only parts associated with the square pinion shaft besides the plastic "gear" on the shaft is a spring and c-clip. My latest problem is my top goes up and down using the dash switch, but the clamshell doesn't move - the car will try to lower the top with the clamshell closed. The micro-switch on the clamshell cable box is working (I get a fault code that the clamshell is open when the clamshell is open and I try to calibrate the top).
I too have thought of just going manual. It looks like the clamshell could be made to open and close riding on its hinges, and I'd make a push-pull handle for the rear closing hook. If that isn't sufficient to hold the clamshell down, I think a couple rubber hood latches could be used for the front corners. I haven't looked closely, but I wonder if the manual closing latch used on the hardtop could be used on the header, or maybe a Boxter latch? I'd just not use the little winglets. In fact, I've thought of ditching the roll-over system, put in a real roll bar, and re-carpet the back for more storage room. Yes a bit more hassle to raise and lower the top, but I have a Jeep Wrangler, so this would still be a lot easier than the Jeep!
It is a 08 997 turbo.
My problem is, that the gear wheel doesnt hold in the motor.
As soon as i connect it to power and try to move it via calibration i can hear the motor working, but nothing happens.
Manually i can open and close the clamshell as it works without the gear wheel
I'm having a similar problem. I hear the motor for the clamshell, but the clamshell doesn't move. I can also move the clamshell manually. I am going to check if the gears might be stripped in the motor.
Were you able to solve this?
I manually closed the clam shell using the tool behind the back seats after my hydraulics cylinders failed mid-operation. I have ordered a repair kit from Porsche (99656167301), any pointers with installation?
I have the same problem, the drive bracket is not align properly so too much force caused the wire to break. Got a new assembly for $800 (ugh).
How did you align it? Did you actually modify the bracket?
Two key things:
1. Make sure the slider mechanisms (on the end of the cables, at the back corners of the car) are clean, free of any debris inside, and well lubricated.
2. I had to bend and grind the bracket slightly to get it to align. I assume it got damaged from the initial issue, so I was just putting it back to normal.
Sorry I don't recall the details (this was 10 years ago!), but basically do what you need to get the bracket aligned like the photo. Mine is still working great 10 years later.
Frisbee91, I seem ever destined to follow you a decade behind. The Frisbee Fix on the canopy rear window has been awesome, however, today when I tried to take advantage of some rare California winter sun, the clamshell hinge arm snapped. Some fairly loud clunks as I tried to fully open and fully close the roof without success until I found the broken hinge.
In hindsight, was the clamshell mechanism disassembly, clean-up, repair, and reassembly a reasonably simple/fast job (despite your many iterations)? Or is this one best left to the indy mechanic?
Thanks in advance,
Ian
Getting the mechanism out isn't really too difficult. There are some hard-to-see nuts that hold the hinge arm under the clamshell (10mm socket driver did the trick, If I recall.) Depending on the damage, you might need to buy a new bowden cable assembly, which was pricey. If it's not damaged, maybe just clean it all up. Getting everything lined up and installed was the tricky part, but if you are a confident amateur wrencher, you can handle it.
Good luck.
BTW, I did eventually replace my entire canvas top after my plastic window cracked. I went with the glass window. I got 10 years out of the repair sewing repair, though.
Thanks Frisbee91. I'm polishing my plastic window with plexus every few weeks, it seems to be keeping it all flexible, even in the cold... will see.
I certainly prefer the field of view of the vinyl windows over those little glass numbers!
Interestingly (to me
) my canopy hinge failure seems to correlate with the untimely death of my battery last week. I've been having difficulty starting the car over the past month. Now with the new battery, I can see that the engine was being cranked quite slowly.
Extrapolating that symptom... while I always have the engine running when deploying the canopy, the weak battery may not have been delivering the amps needed to operate the top correctly.
I haven't tackled the hinge replacement yet (waiting for it to stop raining in SOCAL). but the new battery resolved all sorts of gremlins... so I thought I'd open the roof. Lo and behold, it worked liked greased lightning, despite the broken hinge. I also toped off the hydraulic fluid (which was quite low), lubricated the clamshell tracks and this thing is running on rails.
While I'm sure there are many possible causes of the broken hinge, I wonder if a low voltage in a failing battery is not a prime cause... failing to unlock the clamshell fully which then continues on its merry way up, snapping the hinge arm. I know from my experience, the broken hinge then wreaks havoc depending on what it fouls as the clamshell closes while you try to work out what is going wrong with the roof. I imagine, that if it fouled on the way down, preventing the clamshell from closing, the clamshell actuator could cause the sort of damage you witnessed on your sliders (that force has to go somewhere as it seeks the next point of failure). Certainly there is a good chance of the broken arm crushing the cable when the clamshell closes.
Do you recall a decade ago if you had to change your battery around the same time, or if you were low on charge when the incident first occurred?
Its just a hunch. The mechanism seems pretty well engineered, but it will likely draw more power to overcome wear and lubrication issues as it gets older. Much of the catastrophic failure seems to stem from the clamshell lock not disengaging fully when opening.
I have had quite the saga with this top over the past two months. It�s been back-and-forth to the dealer like six times replaced a bunch of stuff. Including the drive motor. I�m done with the dealership, they can�t fix it after many tries and scratched my car badly enough they had to do painting. Now it�s broken again.
This time seems a bit different though the latch won�t open on the passenger side , Previously would get the warning that the top was not in closed position. The dealership kept throwing parts at it. Perhaps this latch was not closing before but now it won�t open.
I know this function is part of the electrical motor not the hydraulic top motor. Any tips on how to get this to unlatch so I can even get in there to take a look?
. Is there a manual way to open this so that I can get to it to work on it?
car is a 997.2 2009
(I know I�m in the 996 group but the mechanics are similar and this seems like a knowledgeable group)
Hi,
Not sure how much the mechanism has changed since the one I repaired on my 996. If it�s fundamentally the same, then the caution is not to try and open any further than you have in the photo. Opening the back shell when the latch is locked is almost certainly how the hinge arm gets broken, and that is a PITA to replace (though it may already be broken, causing your latch to remain hooked)
if you can see into the drivers side under the backshell (to get a reference for the failed mechanism on the passenger side) you should see the round lug on the backshell hinge where the latch engages and locks down the backshell. In 4th Child�s image above, it is the round lug just above where the hinge has broken. This is up near the front of the backshell. If you look below that lug' you should see the retracted latch with a brass coloured control arm that operates the latch. That is the arm that is actuated to release the clamshell before the rack and pinion drives the hinges to lift the clamshell. The control arm goes most of the way to the back of the vehicle and may be accessible.
Alternatively, you may be able to see/reach the latch through the little side wings that flap up beside the back shell in the last stage of opening the canopy.
Now we enter the land of pure conjecture� the key to getting the backshell unlatched is to try to unlatch it before the hinges are under strain. Once the hinges are trying to lift the backshell, it is likely that the only way it will open is by breaking something. Therefore, I would perform all your attempts to unlatch in the first stage of closing the canopy, as those flaps drop down. You might want to try pushing down on the backshell and jiggling it a little on the passenger side, while someone else operates the canopy. If the backshell lifts on the drivers side, but is still stuck on the passenger side. Stop and go back for another attempt.
A small investment in a bore camera for your phone would likely be worthwhile so you can see what is happening under the backshell at that crucial time when it first unlocks.
Once you get it open, unbolt the backshell from the hinges� clean and lubricate all the moving parts, inspect the hinges and latch mechanism for damage. And check/top up the hydraulic fluid. In my experience (having followed Frisbee�s experiences) these tops are pretty robust, but if they are neglected, they will eventually fail. Mine has been faultless since I replaced the broken hinge and gave everything a good clean and lube. Coincidentally installing a new battery to better power the system may have also been part of the solution, or it may simply be coincidental (the battery was failing around the time when my canopy hinge broke, and I�d had several abnormal opens or closes in the week prior).
Good luck!
A quick additional thought� the backshell is attached to the hinge arms by two bolts on each side (bolt is part of the backshell and is secured under the hinge with a nut� you can see one of the bots in 4th Child�s picture). I think the nuts are 13mm. You will likely need to use a ring spanner as the bolt is too long to get a socket on there. Working with someone holding the back of the backshell to prevent it flipping backwards off the hinges once disconnected, you may be able to first undo the drivers side, then reach through the flap on the passenger side to undo the front bolt, providing enough play to access the final rear bolt. With the backshell off the hinges you will be free to access and repair the mechanism. CAUTION! The backshell is reasonably light and not very strong. Be careful not to bend it if you go down this path. This has not been tried as far as I am aware, so please proceed at your own risk. There may be more conservative methods of getting at the bolts through the seat backs.
This thread might help you figure out how to undo the stuck latch. From your picture, It looks like 2 of the 3 latch hooks are disengaged. You need to unhook the third one on the right side. See the thread below.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-top-part.html
It is possible that some clamshell inop problems are caused by a clamshell motor shaft that comes disconnected with the motor. Porsche sells a repair kit for that shaft, part#
99656167301. I made a Youtube video on how to install this.
You Tube
Circling back to this as I'm having the same issue. Did anyone ever find a resultion to this problem? My top is doing the exact same thing as in this post. The right side of my clamshell won't open.
I've checked & can see the little clamping arm thing (part that rotates & locks in the open position) operates on both sides. So it appears that my clamshell is physically unlatched (and thus able to move), but does not move.
Can I manually close the top so I can access the service position? If so, what is my best procedure to do this so I can properly diagnose my problems?
Read this entire thread. It's most likely either the latch on the right side, or the clamshell drive mechanism (bowden cable and/or slider, part #9 in post 33) are messed up on the right side. You need to remove the clamshell (
There are some hard-to-see nuts that hold the hinge arm under the clamshell, 10mm socket driver did the trick, If I recall to get in and inspect the clamshell drive.
Thanks for this. Unfortunately, because the right side does not go up there is no access to the nuts. I just tried & I don't see any way that I could get my hands, let alone any tools in there to loosen the nuts.
I understand that I can remove the back panel behind the rear seat, then put the convertible top in manual mode. But do I then have to have the top programmed by a dealer if I do that?
And if I put the top in manual mode, will it allow the clamshell to open? Right now, the clamshell appears to be unlatched (I can see the latch rotating) but it won't budge.
It's hard to diagnose just from pictures, but it really looks like that passenger side latch is still engaged. Get under there with a flashlight and double check. (see
this post
)
That's the only thing I can think of that would keep that clamshell from moving. It might be something else, but I can't think of what.
Quick update - I was on a short vacation so this project had to wait.
I removed the clip from the right latch & make sure the latch was completely open. Still the passenger side of the clamshell will not open.
I removed the access panel from behind the rear seat & tried manual operation of the clamshell with the same results.
My guess is that the passenger side cable snapped or is not turning. I can't for the life of me figure out how to access this to open the clamshell so I can service it!
Have you tried pulling up on the passenger side of the clamshell while an assistant actuates the top close button? If the cable mechanism or the slider mechanism are binding, helping them along might do the trick. You only need to raise it a few inches in order to get to the 10mm nuts and unbolt the whole clamshell. Just another thought.
Update - after HOURS of research & work, I got the clamshell open today. Since this was so hard to find info on, I'll post everything I can here for anyone with future reference. I'll also give updates as I get this finished & tested...
My right side clamshell was stuck, it wouldnt' open. Just like the post above with the blue cabrio. I unclipped the gold colored rod from the front latch to make sure that there was nothing physically holding the clamshell back. Still wouldn't budge.
I removed the roll bars (unnecessary) hoping this would give me better line of site but it didn't really help.
I could manually operate the clamshell, but it was the same result.
After a while of messing with it, I realized that the bottom (rear) part of the hinge was not moving. By comparing to the driver side which was working, I noticed that the bottom (rear) of the passenger side hinge was not moving so I focused on that.
I eventually fished a piece of rope around the bottom hinge (huge PITA!) so that I could pull forward on the hinge, while I wiggled & moved the clamshell backwards. It did not come easy, but luckily nothing broke.
Below you can see the pin that was not sliding (if you look forward, it came out of the slider hole. (red arrow)
The blue arrow is the part of the hinge I snaked a piece of rope around. Imagine this rotated 90 degrees & facing down, by pulling it forward I was able to get the hinge to slowly move.
I removed the bracket over the hinge that the pin slides on. (red circles show bolts & bolt holes) (Blue shows pin & pin sliding location for reference)
Same details as above for reference.
Inside of slider mechanism.
My cables are in good condition. I manually operated them and they fully extend and retract.
I took the slides apart & cleaned them really well with brake cleaner. Next, I'll lube everything up with good moly lube and find some spray used to lube up the cables on the inside. I'll run this all back & forth really well to make sure lube is distributed everywhere & then try the clamshell again manually to see how it operates.
I'm hopeful that I didn't break anything and that I can get this back together!!!!
Next question, since I manually opened the convertible top, can I calibrate it myself or do I NEED a porsche or independent dealer with the PIWIS system?
Oh I'm so happy!
Alright, I have everything put back together. The clamshell potentiometer is calibrated to 6.15 ohms.
When I try to run the top through the car power, my clamshell is not moving . Top will go up & down, but not the clamshell.
Any ideas what I'm missing???
Are you absolutely sure the bowden cable isn't damaged? Make sure it moves when actuating the clamshell motor; perhaps check this when it is disconnected from the rear slider mechanism. Just a thought.
Could also be something else in the calibration sequence, such as one of the limit switches.
Yes, I ran the cables in & out when I had the sliders off for cleaning. The cables moved smoothly & freely.
I've read in other places that when you manually move the top with the hex key, you then need to replace the hex key / center bolt / square drive for the clamshell motor. However, this doesn't make sense. I don't know why you would need to replace this just because you turned the bolt manually.
Quick update for anyone else's future reference. This bracket seems to be one of the most common brackets to bend when something goes wrong.
I spent hours searching & chatting with Porsche parts techs. This bracket is not shown on any diagram. The hinge, the drive unit, the clamshell diagrams. It's nowhere...
I had an awesome parts tech finally get to the bottom of it....
These brackets are only sold with the entire drive unit (but not reflected in the parts diagram photos). 996 561 021 03 Which is a very expensive part.
So... To anyone who finds one of your drive brackets is bent, get your vice & hammer ready! I straightened mine. I think I'll bend it slightly more. Once I'm satisfied that it's straight enough & operates properly, I'll remove it & weld a gusset in to give it any strength lost in the bending/straightening process...
Good news, I finally got everyting figured out & working (a few weeks ago). And despite expecting thousands in repairs, I spent exactly zero dollars!
To recap:
My clamshell would only open on one side.
On closer inspection, my passenger side hinge was not sliding the pin & bracket. You can see the pin is loose from the silver part that it slides on in the photo.
I took apart the clamshell drive unit, cleaned it up really well & lubed it. Luckily in my case, nothing broke.
My sticking point was learning that you have to have the clamshell all of the way open to calibrate the clamshell motor to 6.2 ohms. This was a bit of trial & error for me. Since the drive is a square drive, you can calibrate the motor to 6.2, but if you have to turn it slightly on install then the ohms change. So I did some guesstimating, getting the calibration close, then installing the motor & re-checking the settings. Once I finally got the clamshell motor installed & calibrated to 6.2 ohms, I had everything working.
Other than my clamshell was not closing the last 2 inches.
This system is mechanical (clamshell motor) and hydraulic (convertible top) and driven by microswitches. So if you take your time, you can work everything out.
Convertable top latch was never messed with so I didn't need to do anything there.
Clamshell motor was calibrated to 6.2 ohms with the clamshell open.
Last part was getting the rear seat flaps set to the proper detent...
I tried to find a photo but couldn't... Basically, the side flaps have 3 detents. A fully open, fully closed and a mid range detent. If you open you side flaps & look down on the slider, you'll see the middle spot. I'm assuming this is another microswitch. I adjusted the flaps to this middle detent with the clamshell fully open and finally everything was back into sync!
I hope this helps. Wish I could explain better with more photos...
I'm in desperate and urgent need of your help. Pretty much had the exact same issues and I'm now stuck with the roof stopping midway when putting it down. Clamshell operates perfectly and I've adjusted the potentiometer to 6.20 (After I cycled it I checked again it's at 6.12 which I'm pretty sure is not a big deal. Soft top works perfectly going to the up position. I tried adjusting the flap to the middle position with no luck but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. Does the roof have to be in a specific position before adjusting to the the flaps? Before I fixed the clamshell the same way you did, I had the clamshell brackets (the ones that were bent) removed and I was operating the clamshell manually and the soft top using the buttons and that was working perfectly so I'm quite sure all of my switches are fine. If you can recall exactly what you did to the flaps in what position and which way you operated the roof the first time and I'll try to do the same. Also wondering if you had to use any scanner or software to calibrate anything.
I'll do my best to recall, and also do my best to explain.
From my memory... I had my clamshell all the way open and then calibrated the motor to 6.2 ohms. I'm not 100% sure, but I would think that 6.2 ohms is specific. I would do your best to get it right on the money.
From here, everything works in a sequence and is run off of detents / microswitches.
Think when your clamshell is all the way open or all the way closed, the cables that operate it run to opposite ends of the slider mechanism. They hit microswitches at each end.
The side flaps also move mechanically during this process (you can screw them open & closed). If you can look and see (or look for photos online) the back of the flaps have grooves to slide in. In these grooves are detents. Each of these detents coordinates to a position with the clamshell. These need to be in the proper sequence.
In other words... Clamshell (C), sideflaps (B) and convertable top (A) all move in a sequence. If your sideflaps are not in the proper position, everything stops. You need to figure out the proper combination of A, B & C.
There is nothing at all that is computerized so no scanners or computer programs are needed. You just need to open the clamshell, calibrate the motor to 6.2 ohms and make sure the rest of the parts are in their proper position according to detents. then it all works
Lots of words, hard to make sense. But once it clicks in your head, it clicks...
Best photo I could find is on this website.
https://www.redlineautoparts.com/por...oeKI5dOyPGjbNB
This is not the best angle, but it gives you an idea.
The red circled arm rides up and down the blue circled (aluminum) slider.
My best guess is that there are microswitches at both ends (open and closed) as well as the middle part (red arrow).
I would open the clamshell all the way. Calibrate the motor to 6.2 ohms and then turn the screws on the side flaps until the slider is lined up with this red arrowed detent.
Really appreciate the quick reply. It seems that in the noted position it is at the end of its sliding and not the middle. Are you sure this is the where you adjusted it to? I assume you do not remember the specific position of the soft top and that you did not use any scanner to reset stuff correct? Do you recall where you found out the info of this specific position the flap has to be in? Thanks again, very much appreciated!
I never found anything on the flaps. I just made sense of the mechanism. If A and C are not on either ends (open or closed), then it would make sense that the flaps B would need to be in a middle position.
And the clamshell full open seems to be a natural mid point sequence, it made sense to me that the flaps should also align at some mid point sequence at this time...