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YOUR RESEARCHHow stiff should clutch pedal be?
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Install before i bought it - have 50k miles
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The C2 also had a new clutch installed before I bought it - have 50k miles on that clutch now - and it never felt as light as the clutch in the C4S.
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Suggestion
I asked the mechanic why this was, and he explained that unlike the "S", the base Carrera does not have a self-adjusting clutch, nor a way to have it adjusted.
Leading evidence: 'Install before i bought it - have 50k miles' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust clutch, nor a way' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Then I picked up an 04 C4S that had a new Sachs clutch kit installed by the dealer about 500 miles before I bought it.
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They probably did that when they replaced the clutch.
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I've replaced many clutches on my cars over the years and don't recall any of them getting heavy as they wore out, and certainly NOTHING like the weight of my 996 clutch.
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Adjust clutch, nor a way
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Suggestion
I asked the mechanic why this was, and he explained that unlike the "S", the base Carrera does not have a self-adjusting clutch, nor a way to have it adjusted.
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Suggestion
As Macster said - pedal effort increases as clutches get old because the friction plate gets thinner, which changes the geometry - but I think also that the steel in the pressure plate becomes less pliable.
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I've replaced many clutches on my cars over the years and don't recall any of them getting heavy as they wore out, and certainly NOTHING like the weight of my 996 clutch.
Use some dabs of heavy grease at some pivot points
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When I did clutches I always used some dabs of heavy grease at some pivot points which helped reduce the force necessary to work the clutch and cut down on squeaks or other noises and prolonged the life of the clutch hardware and even the clutch because the clutch's action being smoother was better modulated an clutch life extended.
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Question. I've owned my 2003 996 for over two years and absolutely love driving this car. I was on vacation in Glacier National Park for the last week and had a 5-speed Subaru to drive up and down the mountain roads.
I got home late last night and took my 996 out this morning with my wife and my clutch pedal was very stiff as compared to the Subaru I drove all week. I don't remember it being this stiff and my wife was saying I got use to driving the Subaru and there is no comparison.
My question is should the 996 pedal be more like the Subaru clutch pedal? How do I know if the clutch pedal is adjusted properly and what tests should I run to check?
Thanks in advance!
We have two Subies with manual transmissions, and the clutch is super soft and easy compared to the 996. The 996 clutch feels very stiff in comparison.
Stiffer than 996 TT... Mine is Pretty Stiff. When i get in other cars like my friends Lambo, Ford GT, and Bimmers it throws me off and i find mine hard for a while. But when i drive my friends GT3RS and GT2 i find mine soft for a while...
Great pictures and friends... LFMAO too...
I took the car out again and it feels more like it should as my leg forgets that soft-Subaru... just need to drive it for another week and the Subaru will be a distant memory to my leg
Thanks!!
Yea i have the same Feeling... You get used to your Own Clutch Pedal and when you drive another car with Softer or Harder Clutch for even a few hours, Your own clutch Pedal feels diffrent for a few Minutes...
My '03 996 4S is exactly the same! The dealership tells me that the input gearbox shaft gets very dry and is the casue of a lot of clutch "feel" problems. My car is in right now for a complete clutch/IMS bearing/AOS/RMS replacement(s). So, when I get it back on Wednesday I'll find out if any of the clutch work has helped the heavy feel.......I'll let you know!
me too.
as far as clutch - my civic si was really easy and made my c4s feel heavy. since i try and not drive other cars, i think my clutch feels great.
When I took my car in to the dealer about a month ago and was asking them about the heavy clutch, they let me test drive a couple of similar year (2003/4) two wheel drive 996's for comparison........the clutch literally felt like I was in a Toyota or similar. I find it very difficult to believe the clutch in a 4S should be any heavier, by design! I think they told me the clutches are the same part #! The dealership were very non-commital about it and said they thought I had a pressure plate problem. Now it appears after they pulled the thing apart that the plate is ok but the required lubrication for the sliding thrust bearing on the input shaft, is non-existent, which they say is a common problem...........we'll see. If all else fails it has to b the master/slave cylinders.
I don't think the clutch is stiff enough. Then again, I think the clutch on a BMW is just horrible. I prefer a stiff clutch with a very distinct feel for release. Never understand other people complaining..
Then again, I turned the boost off the brakes of my race car and liked it for the more nuanced feel. Never felt that it was more physical effort
My '02 996 Cab had a pretty heavy clutch (nothing compared to the '87 air cooled I had). Just replaced the clutch flywheel et. al. and the new one is a little softer but not a Volkswagon Beetle like the car I learned on 42 years ago. It's a P-Car and I like it.
I hadn't driven a manual in several years when I bought my Porsche, so nothing immediate to compare it to. The car had just over 20,000 miles, there was no slippage or noise from the clutch, and the car was in overall pristine condition, yet the clutch felt unduly heavy to me. I brought it up with the dealership service department, where I was told it was "normal".
At just past 30,000 the CPO expired and I had the LN IMS bearing retrofit done by an independent. He told me the clutch was about half gone (which I thought was odd because I'd driven high-perf BMWs to 150K on the original clutch, but figured the previous owner must have been a clod) and since the labour was already there, so for another $600 I had him install a new clutch kit. The moment I started the car I was amazed. The clutch pedal was night-and-day different, much softer. I asked the mechanic why this was, and he explained that unlike the "S", the base Carrera does not have a self-adjusting clutch, nor a way to have it adjusted. As it wears, the pedal becomes progressively stiffer. He seemed surprised that the dealership service department didn't explain that and try to sell me a new clutch, given that it wasn't covered under CPO anyway. Go figure.
Ok, got the car back today and I believe we have cracked the heavy clutch problem. As I mentioned above, there seems to be a knowm problem with crud binding up the thrust bearing action. Take a look at this pic of my car's innerds as of two days ago and you'll see what I mean. Clutch and flywheel assy, along with a new RMS and LN IMS bearing and new AOS were all fitted. It litrally feels like a new car and the clutch feel is now exactly the same as I recalled driving on eof their two wheeled 996s a few weeks back........feels so light that I just about hammered my left foot into the floorboards when I jumped in it and drove it away.
Problem solved!
We'll never know for sure, but I do not believe the build up accounted for the heavy clutch. If the clutch were hanging up, not fully releasing or fully engaging I might be inclined to blame the build up, though.
The clutch in these cars becomes heavy, hard(er) to depress, due to wear -- mainly of the clutch disc -- which causes the mechanical clutch actuator arm to move beyond its normal position and in doing so it loses some of its mechanical advantage, its leverage drops.
Regardless, as long as your happy and the clutch works, that's the important thing.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Possibly, but, in conversations with the dealership guys over the last several months on this problem, they said that this is nothing new and occurs on cars with few miles on them also. So go figure. I asked them, today, if the thrust bearing was a very close fit on it's shaft. They said it was and accounted for the binding problem because the crud gets between the bearing and the shaft causing it to bind.
I guess the only way to really find out is to clean up all the old parts and put them back in and see what happens. My car's clutch still had 40% left on it after 80k miles so not really worn down that far and nowhere near "requiring" replacement.
All I know is that the change is very dramatic in terms of lightness of feel!!
I've replaced many clutches on my cars over the years and don't recall any of them getting heavy as they wore out, and certainly NOTHING like the weight of my 996 clutch. Now, the configuration of the 996 clutch might be different, but, looks pretty much the same to me.
Best
Les.
Just one more piece of info about this "heavy clutch" thing.........I was searching back from the earliest postings looking for the first time someone mentioned the IMS, and found this posting from March of '02 on clutch problems......
".......I had that problem on my '99 c4 which my dealer fixed promptly be removing, lubricating, and reinstalling the clutch...."
The poster was responding to a question about a sqeaky clutch pedal and didn't actually mention the word "heavy" in the narrative. However, one of the problems with my clutch, other than being heavy, was that the pedal also squeaked! Now my pedal is light and no more sqeaks!
03996 Thanks for the info. I have on 04 C2 and noticed the pressure required to disengage the clutch was getting progressively worse. Then I picked up an 04 C4S that had a new Sachs clutch kit installed by the dealer about 500 miles before I bought it. The feel was, and still is, day and night. I think the C4S is too light. The C2 also had a new clutch installed before I bought it - have 50k miles on that clutch now - and it never felt as light as the clutch in the C4S.
I have the replacement Sachs kit for the C2 and a new AOS and have been holding off (on the fence) about replacing the IMSB. Anyway - a few thousand miles ago I took the C2 on strong (high RPM) run and suddenly noticed that the clutch was lighter and the pedal travel was near normal. I've been experimenting and it is consistent, as long as I run it to 4k rpm or higher, the clutch works just fine. If I keep the revs below 3k, the clutch gets progressively tougher and the engagement point is closer to the floor.
I am starting to wonder if this is more pressure plate related than worn clutch related. And I am also wondering if the Sachs kit (although an OEM manufacturer but not actually the OEM clutch the cars are built with) isn't at least part of why the C4S clutch is so light. It is so light that I have a tough time with consistency, almost like the engagement point varies.
So, like the fool that I am , I might pay the restocking fee and return the Sachs kit and spend up to get the true OEM for the C2.
Not sure what I will do just yet
Interesting stuff.
My clutch was getting more and more stiff - although not objectionabley so - until one day a month or so ago it just failed.
The pressure plate had broken.
I replaced it with a Sachs sport clutch - despite my concerns about increased pedal effort - and wouldn't you know it the pedal was light as a feather afterwards - lighter even.
My guess is that your clutch was about to fail. As Macster said - pedal effort increases as clutches get old because the friction plate gets thinner, which changes the geometry - but I think also that the steel in the pressure plate becomes less pliable.
Anyway - your clutch replacement was not wasted money. Enjoy your new clutch - I'm certainly liking mine.
edit - Oh yes - silotwo - SACHS makes the OEM clutches for Porsche. UNless you have the Sachs sport clutch - the OEM will be identical to the kit you have already.
Spoke to a couple of techs Thursday about this. I was told the release bearing has a nylon like sleeve that fits on a plain (unsplined) portion of input shaft. This sleeve is supposed to be lube'd with a special grease. I do not know if this special grease is made from oil obtained from virgin humpback whales or is left over after the sludge is removed from the bottom of the refinery cracking towers.
The techs said in some cases this grease can dry out -- helped no doubt by some accumulation of dust -- and the clutch's action becomes stiffer.
Now years ago when I had my Boxster in for an RMS I mentioned the clutch felt a bit stiff and would the tech touch up the lube points, if any. When I did clutches I always used some dabs of heavy grease at some pivot points which helped reduce the force necessary to work the clutch and cut down on squeaks or other noises and prolonged the life of the clutch hardware and even the clutch because the clutch's action being smoother was better modulated an clutch life extended.
After I got my Boxster back the clutch's action felt better, and I can't help but attribute its long life (256K miles) as being partially due to this opportune lube.
But the majority of hard to operate clutches arises from the wear that causes the clutch lever to lose some of its mechanical leverage.
However, I have to point out that different regions have different issues. For instance, I never heard of misfires/bad coils until I started reading UK published indy Porsche mags and visiting UK based Porsche web sites.
The misfires and bad coils were real, I guess brought on by the climate. Techs -- mostly in drier/warmer climates of the west -- very seldom encounter bad coils.
Severely corroded brake rotors? Ditto. In the UK a common problem. In most other places just doesn't happen.
So, it could be this clutch heaviness due to a dragging release bearing is a regional thing.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I wonder if the guys who removed the helping spring on the clutch pedal are reading these posts? Maybe their clutches were on the 'way out' for them to be so hard to use. Or was it removed so they could feel the plate bite in. God only knows now.
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