For those of you who moved on to a 997.1/997.2

Are you happy you did? Is it worth the additional $$?

I have not owned a 997 however I have driven many iteration, including RS cars through the 991.2. I find this question to be a bit like asking what your favorite color or number is. To me, the 996 chassis is a fantastic one, a great spot between daily driver comfort, and communicative and direct. But again, we all like what we like. I also really enjoy (and currently have) e36/e46 M3s, but no interest in the e90 or later (or e30 for that matter). Have you driven one? They're more capable, more comfortable. Less direct, less communicative. Basically like every iteration of 911 has gone (and pretty much every car model on earth as they remake them).

No, never driven one. Just thinking out loud that maybe I�ll want to trade out of the 996 to a 997 at some point. Just not sure it�s worth it.

First thing to do is go test drive one.

Anything particular you like more about the 997? Personally, if I had to choose, I would pick the 997. It's definitely a more refined 911, will probably go down as the last great 911, and will retain it's value. For the money, the 997 has the higher probability of being the bettee driving experience as well the better financial decision. However, coming from my perspective of likes working on cars, the 996 is the better car for me. I only buy cars with blown engines. I like tinkering. I am actually casually looking for a 997. If I come across a good deal, I will get it. My girlfriend wants one.

I've driven many 997 Carrera S, owned 996 C4S and currently own 996 Anniversary. - I didn't enjoy the C4S much, it felt floaty and slow. Was always worried about IMS. - The 997 S was a blast to test drive. The brakes were great, very comfortable, great soundtrack with Gundo. Suspension was comfortable with a hint of stiffness. I liked it a lot but at the time I was looking at mid 40's to 50's for one that I had to compromise a bit with in terms of options/color/owner history etc. Could easily daily it. - I found a 996 Anniversary for less $$$. Was ready to write it off as another 996 until I drove it. I was amazed at what a different car it is vs my C4S and how capable it is vs the 997. Put in IMS/RMS/Clutch first day I owned it and I've since been completely satisfied with my purchase. My interior is mint, with full leather and the anniversary bits. Added some lloyds mats, metal pedals, and I actually prefer it vs the standard 997 interior. I'm sure the decked out 997 interior would be great too. I would say the brakes aren't as good vs the 997 and the ride is a bit more harsh and would be more difficult to city daily drive. Overall, buy what you like, buy what you can afford, buy what you can afford to fix, buy what fits your needs (AWD, RWD, TURBO etc.) and you will be happy.

I love my 996, don�t get me wrong. It�s had zero issues in the 2 years I�ve owned it and with the aero pkg, M030 suspension and 19� wheels I get a ton of compliments on it. If I�m honest, I find the 997 interior to be much better and I also like the exterior styling. Feels like it�s still small enough, unlike the 991 which looks bloated to me. I�ve sat in a few but never driven one. From the reviews I�ve read it seems to be the last true driver�s 911. 300-350 hp is the perfect amount for me. The cliche rings true in that it�s more fun to drive a �slow� car fast than a fast car slow. Not that the 996 is slow but I�m still able to wind it out and watch the tach rise and enjoy the driving dynamics of the car. There�s so much to be said for the perfect balance the 996 has. If a 997 has this same balance but is just a tad more refined then I�d look to trade up eventually. Maybe in another year or two. This is purely a weekend car for me to enjoy on the Socal canyon twisties.

I am picking up my 2003 996 tonight. It is a 45000 mile car. It was purchased at a Porsche dealer, so I know I paid a premium. I could have purchased a 997.1 for about the same money. So, why the 996? First, condition. Car is a no accident, all original. Solution will be installed ASAP. Second, 997 is a better looking car externally. The 997.1 interior is ugly. Between the non functional phone keypad, silver painted trim, peeling hvac buttons etc, I couldn’t do it. I sit inside, and the 996 black interior is simple and will never be too dated.

I'm a big fan of cars with character and history. Not so much cars that are made for EVERYONE to enjoy. Automotive evolution has shown that, at least since the late 90s, cars become more and more watered down with every passing generation. BMW E30, E36, E46 and E-whatever they are now. For the most part, im rarely interested in cars made after about 2006... I can get the type of experience I want, for less money and the cars tend to be easier to maintain and cheaper to upkeep. This holds true with the 996 for me. A very close friend picked up a 997.1 C4S with factory Aero a couple years back and he still has it. It sits in his garage for the most part and hasnt cost him much to keep on the road but he still paid ~$55K for it. Not sure what his car would be worth today but does it offer 4-5x the enjoyment that i'm getting out of mine? No. Would I rather have seen him buy a 996 GT3 or 996TT at the time? HELL YES!! It makes sense in my head...

Well, we all know that the 996 is the biggest ( ( ( B A N G ) ) ) for the buck. Why move? You'll miss all the excitement.

I owned a 997.1 before my 996. I bought the 996 to dedicate as a track car. Even in relatively stock form the 996 was very different from the 997. The 7.1 was definitely more refined, nicer interior, faster, and all round just more compliant and comfortable. The technology was newer, the fit and finish better, etc. So yeah, all things being equal - the 997 as a routine driver was a nicer car by a pretty good margin. But.... The 996 in its relatively stock format was, by all counts, a really cool car. Without PSM, sport, or any of the other push-button additions - its a car that just 'is.' It takes more thought, more effort, and more intent to get it to do what you want. As a track car now - it's wonderful. It's a challenge to drive well - when you get things right - it's extremely rewarding. When you get them wrong, the consequences usually show up fairly quickly and can be a sobering reminder that these cars are truly drivers cars. Without any nanny's - my 99 represents more of a symbiotic relationship. "Without me - it is nothing. Without it, I am nothing." Simply put - I found the 997 to be more like a cat. Interactive when needed - but quite happy with its independence. The 996 is more like a Labrador with a tennis ball.

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Be careful using the cat/dog analogies. Well known recipes for thread derailment.

I sold my 996 C4S and bought a 997.1 Turbo. It was a great decision, and I loved the 997.1 Turbo. I later sold that and bought a 991.1 Turbo S. This was also a great decision, and I love the Turbo S. The fact is, the 911 is a great car in any generation. If one speaks to you or doesn’t, that’s okay. There are things that I miss about both of the 911s that I’ve sold. I keep telling myself that the 991 is my last 911. I feel that way right now. That said, I wouldn’t be too surprised if I buy a 992 in the future. It’s hard to say how I’ll feel in a couple of years.

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Great analogy!

The performance gap between a mk1 996 and a 997.1 or 997.1S is pretty large. The performance gap between a 996.2, expecially an x51 like a 40th, and a 997.1S is negligible. The 997.1S is a better-looking car, hands-down. It does feel more remote. It feels like you're riding in it. 996, there's no question you are DRIVING IT. If i was commuting in a 911, the 997 would definitely, definitely be worth the upgrade. For track and fun drives use only, the 996 is a much better value.

Let me just say this....I just traded in my 997.2 C4S for a 991 Turbo S....but I still have my 996. Like Dennis I always think the latest generation is the last 911 I will buy but I always end up getting the latest at some point. Each generation seems to do things better. However, my 996 I plan to have forever. There is something about that generation that I can't shake....maybe its because they are fun to mod....I love messing with it but not so much with other cars....

Thanks for the info guys. I�ll need to drive a few to really know. I tend not to hold on to cars (and bikes) for more than 2-3 years. I�ve thought about a newer Cayman, but the 911 is just so iconic I won�t be in love with the Cayman. The 991 doesn�t do it for me. Just looks to big and too refined. 997 seems to be a good balance between old and new.

I test drove a 997.1 Targa 4 prior to buying my 996. The 996 had more drama, and I wanted a car that would excite me without the local police impounding my car.

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Great observation!

I keep waiting for my free 997 (specifically a 2011 911 GT3 RS 4.0) to appear, but since I don't think that will happen, I think I'll be satisfied with my 996 for a while. Maybe someday once this 3.6 gets longer in the tooth (it only has 24K on an AT engine), I can get it tweaked into a Flat6 4.0, and have 90% of the fun with a small fraction of the cost...

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We have the same thinking when it comes to cars. I say the same thing. After 2006, I really don't care about the newer cars. I stopped caring about the 3 Series after the E46. E92 was ok but I don't know much about them at all. Once the cars started needing batteries coded to the car, they lost me. I almost bought a brand new 2013 991 C2S 7-spd. I put a down payment on it and all. For some reason, I could not get excited about it. While driving it, if someone told me I was in a hopped up Beetle, I would've believed it. For $100K, I did not get excited about it. I couldn't imagine working on it myself either. I got my deposit back and never looked back. My gf's brother-in-law has a 997.2. Very neat car. I could see myself owning one. Like you, I don't think I will get more excitement from it than a 996.The 997 interior is definitely better but I don't mind the 996 interior either. I like the layout. The materials used leave you wanting more though. Oh well. Like you, I like cars with character. I actually like having cars no one else thinks about. That's why I have a daily driver 1997 Honda Accord wagon with manual transmission. People make fun of it but I have a blast in it, even with 145 hp. Still would like to put a Prelude H22 into it. I'm also building a 3.6L out of a J32 block to put into my 2003 Accord V6 6-spd. It will replace my E36 M3 as a track car. All of my friends think I'm crazy and do not understand why I am so excited about it. A 300+whp Accord in manual transmission at a track event isn't something you see often! lol

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I went from a 2000 Jeep Wrangler that I was daily driving for close to 15 years to a 2008 VW R32. Talk about tech shock! LOL. Ultimately sold that little guy off (even though it was a blast) because the transmission pissed me off from day one. I cant wait for my B&M Shifter to arrive for the 996

One of the things that I miss the most about my 996 is the manual transmission. The manual transmission in my 997.1 turbo was terrible - it had the most unforgiving and unpleasant clutch that I've ever operated. The 996 clutch and shifter action was super smooth and nice. The PDK gearbox in my 991 is excellent, but I still sometimes miss rowing through the gears in my 996 C4S.

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I fully agree with the above comments. I have driven most iterations of 996's and 997's. My personal taste is more track focused, and with that in mind... 1) 996 Coupe 6MT, best bang for the buck, funnest way around the track. Can mod the car often and try different things. $20Kish starting point. Is it the fastest way around the track? No. 2) 997.1 C2S, Properly fast, still easy to mod, but the $35Kish entry point makes you think twice. Track exhaust and Engine Tune will get you near 996 Turbo hp numbers. Just my opinions.

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Clearly lots of different opinions here. Sounds like you're going to need to drive them yourself and see! The transmission in the 997.1 Turbo is mostly the same unit as the one in the 996 Turbo, and by extension the GT cars as well. The transmission feel is excellent in my opinion. It's the double assisted clutch that sucks. The "manual" (still hydraulic) conversion that takes out the power steering pump assist from the clutch circuit makes a night and day difference. I have 5 cars right now, and none of them are automatics. An older Porsche turbo, 2 MINI Cooper S', an e46 M3 and the 996.2 Carrera. The 996 is easily my favorite, but each car has it's charm. Long after I got into Porsches, I owned a Saturn SL1 and I thought it was really neat (read up on how they cast the engine blocks in the early days for example)... So yeah, maybe don't listen to me lol!

Ok, lets start with some honesty. I'm a cheap bastage. I recycle toothpaste, ya know? I did it right with my 996 purchase. Aero pgk, sport seats, M030, to which I added the LN bearing, and some other gadgetry. All in - I was well under $20k for Mr Toads Wild ride. Every time I drove it, when I wasn't concerned that it would blow up in the next mile I was thinking 'there is very little which would cost me $20k, and provide this damn much fun!' And I figured the 997 was a step up - right? I drove the 996 down to Houston, and there was a nice blue 997.2 at a dealer. I rolled in with my aero red car, and asked to have a look. they were very accommodating and were quite interested in a test drive. We chatted about some numbers, and declined the finance option if I bought. I did like some few features of the interior. It was just a slightly better design, and fitment all around. Nothing earth shaking over the 996 but cup holders, and glove box, and the lighting was well done. As for the driving, well - it seemed somewhat pedestrian. Not that it wasn't plenty fast, and had good road holding, but it was not elemental like the 996 with sport pkg. I didn't wind it out, or G load it hard on a test drive, but we did some spirited motion, and I liked it just fine. However - I sure as heck didn't like it $38000 more than what I had already. I told the sales guy that almost word for word, and he advise that someone with a nice 996 likely is not their market for this car. It's a couple who has NEVER been in a 996 or anything like it before. I told him it was real nice, but not worth me dropping money on it. There was a Cayman S that caught my eye, but it was black(of course), so no sale. I'm sure if I had a 997.2, I would be just fine with it and not wanting a 996. But I was fine getting a 996, and wouldn't pay hardly anything more for the next gen. Hope that helps.

Thanks Doc, that does help. I�ll still test drive one. Maybe even rent one through Turo to spend a full day in one. But yeah you�re right. For the price, there�s no better deal than a well sorted 996. I bought mine from a PCA member, tons of records, IMS/RMS/AOS/clutch/water pump along with a bunch of other preventative maintenance all done 20k miles ago. That receipt alone was over $7k. Throw in the aero, 19� champion RG5s, M030 suspension and it is a pretty cool package. It�s probably a keeper, but my issue is I�m never satisfied. Always looking for the next toy....

How about keeping the 996 and getting another toy? Maybe something softer for when you don't want full road feel...E46/E90 M3?

Depending on what you want to get out of your next car, I would likely look outside the Porsche stable. Again, the 996 is the bargain play of the century, but there are other capable cars that can be fun package as well. Even something from the Japanese market. Around the same time, I bought a Forester for tootling around in the snow. I was at the dealer getting it serviced, and they had once of those WRX jobs on the lot for reasonable coin. So we took it out and messed around a bit. It was - impressive. The only issue I had was finding one that hasn't been completely thrashed and modded to death by the PO. There's others, but if you are staying in the Porsche marque, I guess one of the limited edition 997 S models would be the next thing up. Some came with X51 with even more power and handling package, but now were out of my price range by a whole bunch. Good luck.

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Good point. In retrospect, the gear shift operation in the 997 was good; it was the clutch feel that was bad.

What I like about the 996 over the 997 (and 964 and 993) is that it (to quote Colin Chapman) "adds lightness": Comparison of 6-speed, 2wd, coupes (weights relative to 996.1) : 964 (1989-1993) -> 3,031 lbs (+130 lbs) 993 (1994-1998) -> 3,020 lbs (+119 lbs) 996.1 (1998-2001) -> 2,901 lbs 996.2 (2002-2004) -> 2,959 lbs (+58 lbs) 997.1 (2005-2008) -> 3,075 lbs (+174 lbs) 997.2 (2009-2012) -> 3,186 lbs (+285 lbs)

Well, with my 996 being a weekend car plus also having an Aprilia RSV4 in the garage, keeping it and buying a 2nd 911 doesn�t make much sense. Even if I could afford it. But if I do move on it will be for another 911. There is no substitute, right? Mine already has a 997 shifter so no complaints there. Have thought about the Cayman but it just doesn�t give me the feels like a 911 does.

I guess you could say I went backwards...I had a Guards Red 997.1 C2S with X51 headers, AWE sport cats, Softronic tune, B&M SSK. It was a very nice car, pristine in fact. I loved it but ended up selling it years ago to help put down on a house. The day I sold it I think I shed a tear or maybe something was in my eye....BUT.... Fast forward about 7 years later and I now own a very excellent example of a 2003 Guards Red 996 C4S. Many have already chimed in on some of the differences. I will say my C4S does not feel floaty or slow in anyway. And I know what fast is, as I also I have a 800hp '13 GT500 that would blow the doors off either car. I would say both Porsches are quick but obviously not land rockets. Out of the box I'd say the 996 is the better drivers car. It might not be quicker in all aspects but to me it's just more rewarding to drive. The 997 is the better cruiser for sure. It is more refined and the seats alone are a nice upgrade. However I am not a fan of the 997 radio/climate controls as they are in that awkward time between standard single din radios and the newer touch screen setups you see in today's cars. The switches tend to peel and flake and the display just looks ancient by today's standards. The 996 on the other hand has the timeless standard controls which are fine to keep or some people upgrade anyway. Even after adjustments, the shifter on my 997 never felt right until I installed a B&M short shift kit. On the other hand my stock 996 shifter is smooth as butter. It has longer throws but they are more satisfying and super smooth. Could be luck of the draw here. Sport chrono was a nice option on the 997 C2S. Ride quality is a bit more plush in the 997. I prefer the steering wheel in the 996.2. I like my stock carbon/aluminum shift **** compared to the stock 997 shifter. In the end I can confidently say if similar examples were around the same price I would still choose the 996 C4S (as I did). It just has a better driving feel for me and ticks off all of the right check marks. And to me it seems like its the more special car between the two. The 996 C4S prob has the best rear end in the lineup. Just my opinion/experience owning both. Good luck!

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Can't argue with that!

Yep! Porsche nailed it with the 996 C4S design.

If prices were equal for a 997.1 vs 996.2, I'd take the 996. The premium the newer cars pulls makes them not worth it. I tried really hard to talk myself into a 997.2, but after driving one it's really not appreciably better than a 996 except peace of mind about motor reliability. And at double the price? Never! Maybe if 997.2s come down into the 20s I could justify one but they're holding where they are

Having owned 2 996 C2's and 3 996 C4S's I moved to 997.1 last year - Started with 2005 997S and now have my 2007 997C4S I loved my wide body 996's. Having been an aircooled owner for so long I missed the round headlight design and felt the 997C4S was a more aggressive/nicer design. I am extremely happy with my car and love the design - I do prefer it over the 996 In all honesty, it drives very similar to the 996C4S - I do enjoy the adaptive sport seats in my 997C4S **Whatever you decide try and find 996 or 997 C4S with PSE(Porsche Sound Exhaust) if possible - It is such a great option - All 3 of my 996C4S's had PSE Enjoy the hunt!

I�ve also considered finding a 997 roller and having a JR motor built for it. That�d be a fun car!

I use mine as an everyday DD. Went from a 996.1 C4 6 speed to a 2009 C4 PDK. When I drove my 996 I made a wish list for my next car. I like the 996.1 body the best of all the 911's, fried eggs and all. Mind you all of these things are DD geared. Not towards a weekend or track car. I wanted an automatic and the PDK checked this box. I wanted dimming rear view mirrors which really got old on the 996. I wanted better gas mileage. At 15k per year I was having to fill up the 996 every 220 miles. And after investing $40K in just over two years, I didn't want to stare at my magnetic drain plug with every oil change. As far as every day driving, they are the same. Never want more power or handling. And always spill my coffee when I hit a bump. Oh, and as for tech, does not matter. I have the bovee so I am so a2dp streaming, but the reality is the interface on the PCM 3.0 is archaic compared to just using an aux cord to the radio like I did on my cdr220 on the 996

Not exactly your question, but similar. I moved from a 996 C2 to a 987 Cayman S, then back to a 996 Turbo. While the 9x7.1 cars offer some nice interior upgrades, the 996 turbo is my goldilocks car. Just right... I still am always looking at new Porsches, 997.2 Turbos, 991.2 C2s, 996 GT3s, etc, but it's just damn hard to match the Turbos level of driver involvement, power & performance, and dare-I-say looks at anywhere near the price point. I am seriously considering picking up a 2017 991.2 Carrera (lowercase turbo) as more of a daily driver, but I'm thinking the Turbo is a keeper. 2001 Turbo, Arctic over Black. 2008 Cayman S, Arctic over Black. 2004 C2, Polar Silver over Black.

Polar Silver such a cool color in person.

pfbz, your photo location game is ON. POINT.

If I do move on/up?? I'm sure I'll have a regret or two from time to time....

Having owned both at the same time. This past year I consolidated and now I have a 996 with a 997S engine and transmission...best of both worlds.

Moved from 996.2 to 997.2. The latter feels more like a GT car, bigger, more refined. 996, even the .2 version, felt raw and more engaging. Perhaps I'll need to gundo hack the exhaust to inject more excitement. Otherwise it'll feel like a Maserati GT.... I find it much better to not have to worry about whether the exhaust pipes emitting the same amount of smoke, or wondering whether the oil leak is from RMS or IMS ....

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997.2 is probably one of the most trouble free cars I have ever owned....can't go wrong with buying one.