Shop went to change IMS and said they could not remove?

I decided to have the IMS bearing upgraded and toke it to a local repair shop. They called me the next day and said they could not remove IMS flange due to the bearing part was seized onto shaft. I asked what the best course of action to handle this problem was and they quickly said they would sell me a new engine for 23,000K. I said the engine ran fine, why can't you just pull out what part you need to replace (I don't know much about engines). They said they don't pull engines apart, just install and remove is the far as they go. I did notice that they seem to have porsches for sale like mine that they must buy and fix up and sell there. I said let me digest all of this, it was a lot to absorb in a 2 minute phone conversation. I read on this forum to ask about metal shavings. They said yes there was in the housing, but when i got there and asked to see the housing they said the mechanic must have dumped the oil out. They showed me little oil in the pan on the bench with barely visible smallest amount of shine, (or it was the power of persuasion). I didn't feel right about the situation and told them i would get it brought back to my house and throw it in the garage and let it sit. They keep asking me did i want to sell it and how much. My question is does a engine have to be rebuilt if the IMS bearing is seized on the shaft?

Your best bet is to get your car back and go elsewhere because I seriously doubt they are being candid with you.

I would suggest having it towed to another shop. Sounds like they are trying to scam you - i.e. scare you and get you to sell them the car cheap. I would stick around when you tell them that and keep your car in sight while you wait for the tow truck as they might try to sabotage it. I could be wrong, but that situation doesn't sound right to me. I work with many shops (I own a car dealership) and you'd be surprised at the crap they will try to pull on you.

Wow that's crazy. I wonder what kind of online reviews this shop has? Yelp? Etc... Perhaps someone on here can recommend you a reputable shop... As you are in Florida are you close to Champion? They are very good from all I've read

Run little rabbit run! Get your car flat-bedded out of there immediately. Along with whatever parts they removed. Seriously. Get it home so you can apply some time and thought to this project. Now, what year is your car? What is the condition? Why did you decide to replace your IMSB? PM or was something noticed? FYI - the flange is a separate piece from the bearing.

Run and don't walk, and get your car out of there ASAP and hope they didn't mess anything up. I'm hoping your simple PM doesn't turn into a major repair. List the name of the shop so others can avoid it.

I haven't heard of a case where the bearing has seized in the shaft and the bearing is still good. Are you sure you are understanding them correctly? Are they telling you the bearing is in a failed state? Or are they telling you that you have a replacement motor that has the captured bearing (can't be replaced without splitting the case)? Is this a dealer or an Indy? Based on the replacement engine cost it sounds like a dealer, but they should know the difference between a failed bearing and a captured bearing. If we take your description of the situation at face value, I think you are kinda screwed no matter what. Based on your description the shop sounds like they have no experience with the M96 or bearing replacement and are therefore incompetent purely based on them not telling you this isn't something they can handle before getting deep in. That they told you there was metal in the oil, but cleaned it up before you could see it is also suspect to me. Your real problem is that if we assume that the bearing was OK before and this shop is indeed incompetent, I would not button it back up and drive the car on that bearing. God knows what they could have done in the process of trying to remove it that may have caused damage to it that you can't see. Unfortunately I think you need to find a reputable and experienced shop to get the car sent to and have them access the situation and give you some real answers. Hopefully it's a simple misunderstanding of things and it's a captured bearing, they do know what they are doing, and there was no metal in the oil. If those things are true you might not be in as bad of a situation.

I agree with everyone above, RUN away. As far as I know (no expert here) the inner race of the IMS bearing sits ON the shaft on the removable IMS housing. There is NO WAY that they could not remove it if this was the case. The entire carrier, shaft, and bearing come out of the engine case. The outer race of the IMS bearing fits INSIDE the Intermediate Shaft and as this has oil inside of it I don't see how it could be seized. The proper tool/puller should be able to pull it out of the shaft with no problem. If course stranger things have happened but my gut tells me the shop is either trying to scam you or they just don't know what they are doing. Best of luck getting everything straightened out.

http://imsretrofit.com/preferred-installers/ http://theimssolution.com/certified-installers/

Yes get out of there , can we have photos of the ims, you said the flange , then bearing which is it?? If the flange is seized then the bearing is behind it and they haven't got to it, if it's the bearing, it's a tight fit with a retaining ring, you have to use a proper ims puller to get it out , they probably tried with a normal puller and had no luck , just hope they not damaged anything and are trying to cover it up, metal in the housing?? They aren't even using proper terminology for different parts , they sound like idiots, get it to a proper porsche Indy and if they have damaged your engine your going to have to try to reclaim the damages. You took a good car in to a garage for an upgrade , now it doesn't work , I don't believe you had a failure it just sounds like they are hiding something, the ims doesn't seize on the shaft it's just the inside of the bearing which fails so that's bull****!!

RUN FROM THIS SHOP! How can they tell you that they "don't pull engines apart, just install and remove is the far as they go" when they agreed to install the IMS in the first place. I get that they don't do rebuilds but that's not what you're asking. I would tell them to stop any work on your car and have it towed somewhere else. Just curious, how did you choose this shop to do your IMS in the first place? -Eric

for the 996th time: GET YOUR CAR OUT OF THAT SHOP ASAP! NOW! PRONTO! POST HASTE!

Here are the pics I toke with my iPhone if it helps. BTW thanks to all of you for your advice. I really do appreciate it.

So you brought a running and apparently healthy car into the shop to do a preventive IMSB retrofit and this is where it ended up? I'm speechless. I agree with others. Run and take your car and engine away from that shop ASAP and tow both to a recommended shop to minimize further damages.

Actually I see their (potential) unfortunate mistakes now. Can you ask them to take a photo of the water pump side?

Oh, man, that sucks. Think they tried to remove it at an angle? Aside from the IMS bearing now being boned, selling you a completely new engine for $23K because they can't fix what they broke is criminal. If they try to charge you for the "work" they've done so far, be sure to tell them which orifice they can insert their own invoice into. Since the engine is sitting on a workbench and not still in the car, which seems unusual for a shop that says they can't work on engines, you might inquire what exactly has been done to your car. You may be tempted to let them do more work since your car is currently in parts in their possession. I wouldn't. If there was metal in the filter housing, you should have been contacted BEFORE they continued dicking with the car.

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It's not that but I need a pic of the water pump side to confirm my suspicion.

OH MY GOODNESS did they screw the pooch on this one. Here is a good article on what should have happened. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...MS_Bearing.htm First of all it looks like they pushed the IMS bearing shaft into the engine so that there is nothing for the puller to screw onto. That empty hole you see in the middle of your picture should look like this. Notice the threaded stud in the middle with the slot in it? It is no longer there. That is what is needed to screw on the special puller to pull the IMS bearing. (pay no attention to the green arrow) I am not trying to be an alarmist or upset you but this shop has make a HUGE mistake. It may or may not be able to be remedied. At the least they owe you for any work that has already been done plus the cost of another shop getting the bearing out, PLUS the cost of any damage they have done to the IMS shaft. At the most they owe you a new engine. The pictures of the shafts that you posted above I believe to be the cam chain tensioners. Best of luck and don't let them touch another thing. You know a good lawyer

Had them put engine back together and in the car. They left the engine oil out and coolant and removed the fuel pump fuse. Had flat bed pickup and place in my garage. I paid them 863.00 as they asked for the removal and and to put back it car so I could keep it all together for the flatbed to pickup. I didn't want to accuse anyone of anything without knowing that their assessment was incorrect. I felt it was best to be respectful and get the car home, didn't want to make enemies with my car in their possession.

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They didn't lock the cams! OMG!

Looks like the centre stud is missing from the ims , wonder if they pulled it and it came out and left the outer race still in the shaft??

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SMART MOVE. Now document/record EVERYTHING so they cannot claim they did NOT do anything wrong. Either the tech was completely clueless and gooned the job. Or they were setting you up to sell (dump) the car for cheap. I wish you the best.

Why the hell was the motor removed for an IMSB replacement in the first place? You now need the entire thing gone over with a fine tooth comb to make sure A) everything is still there and B) it is all connected up correctly and functioning. Hopefully you paid their bill on a CC. If so, now that you've got the car and parts in your possession I'd be calling to file a dispute.

Jason Tell us where your car is and other Forum members will be able to suggest a competent Indie. You might consider calling Pedro at Pedros Garage. http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site/About_Us.html

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Let's just say it's not clear if they had locked down the bank 1 cams, which is the most critical side as the chains are pulling on the IMSB directly. Pic shows they did lock the bank 2 cams. HOWEVER, you cannot use two identical regular cam tools to lock both banks simultaneously.

I am anxiously awaiting a knowledgeable reply pertaining to those pictures...

I would like to find a place closer to me here in Vero Beach. I toke it to a place in Martin County. I'm not looking to pursue suing or disparaging anyone, i'm a easy going guy that just want to get back to driving it with my wife on the weekends (we bought it for fun to relive our youth LOL). She had (2) 356's and was a 911 guy in the 80's. I probably should have stayed with the air cooled models, But when i saw the 996 interior (MK1) I really liked it a lot. Even with the new ones, I still like the 996 interior most of all. I have read good things on here about the L N upgrade bearing and wanted to upgrade to that if possible. I have to say all of you have been incredible, It is rare to see such a nice bunch of people these days. Thank You very much to the reenlist 996 community!

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Dude, you just lost my respect.

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Two things never uttered before in history (especially together!)

Definitely recommend taking the car to someone that knows these engines and the IMSB process as well. From the pics you posted its hard to say anything definitive except the center stud isn't where we'd expect it to be (coming out of the flange). I've read they can pull off when trying to extract the bearing and its not the end of the world. However you would remove the flange prior to pulling the bearing with the stud, so I'm having trouble understanding that sequence of events. The other picture you showed is of the timing chain tensioner. They should have removed at least 2 in order to pull the bearing - so does the pic of only one indicate they didn't remove the second? Its all speculation - you need to have someone qualified check things over and then you'll know exactly what you're dealing with.

http://imsretrofit.com/preferred-installers/ Finding a certified installer would be the best but not absolutely necessary if you find a preferred installer that can also do good prequalification check first.

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Your ability to maintain your composure is impressive. I still think you should have called them all f**ksticks, but hey, that's your call. Good luck with the next shop. At this point it would be wise to find someone very credible, since you'll need to verify what needs to be corrected and (hopefully) identify what, if any, damage was caused by the previous establishment.

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Fixed it for you - maybe. *shrug* Who knows/cares any more?

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Pull fuses C1 to C3 because the fuel pump fuse (C4) will not prevent someone from accidentally cranking the engine. Your engine is probably still undamaged as is but if someone cranks it by mistake with the IMSB not bolted down... My worry is that they didn't lock down bank 1 and worse they locked down bank 2. That will make the bank 1 cams in a bad position for IMS replacement. The valve springs will put a lot of pressure on the bank 1 cams, which will pull the IMSB to one side so the flange can't be removed. You definitely need a shop that knows these engines to correct this situation.

Thank you for posting the list of installers, unfortunately they both are quite far away. One is Sarasota and the other is Gainesville. I have searched the forums on here and google and have not found any repair shops that specialize in Porsche in my area, only repair shops that due general european car maintenance (I don't want to make the same mistake). I am having a hard time determining from some of the posts regarding the pics if anyone thinks this IMS can be replaced or am I likely looking at more of a problem? BTW Do you all not like the interior on the 996? I didn't know it was not in favor, Show's i'm abit out of touch of what is in style (Everyone I know gets the black interior but I like the tan interior on our cars)

I feel so happy every time I sit down in the car the last thing I am going to do is bag on the interior...

Thank you AHSAI about removing Fuse C1 and C3. I did not know to do that. Very much appreciated! Just went out and did it.

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Don't forget fuse C2 as well (C1 to C3). I'm biting my nails for you and the interior will be the last thing on my mind.

OP, I personally also like the 996 interior. It doesn't look like a 70's living room (i.e. previous 911 generations) and also doesn't look like the bridge of the Enterprise. Simple, austere, no plaid or coconut fiber. Perfect.

At this point what you need is this: http://imsretrofit.com/preferred-installers/ Do NOT try to cheap this job out anymore. Go to the right people, confess your sin, and ask them nicely if they will save you a few thou. Bring beer. edit: Took is the past tense of take. 'Toke' is a completely different verb.

My previous three automotive experiences - E46 325i, R56 Mini, W202 C-Class - all had interiors I would consider better than the 996, and together cost roughly the same as what my 996 (new). The 3-series, especially, which is shocking given they were produced in the exact same era, 1998-2005. OP, you're certainly way more calm about this situation than I imagine I would have been in the same scenario...

I don't get the 996 interior bashing. The previous 911's were nothing to write home about; the 996 is a little utilitarian - but it's a sports car, not a yacht.

Yea, I love the 996 interior. At least on my 996.2 C4S with full leather and aluminum options it isnt even a contest with the older 911s interiors. Coming from lots of air cooled 911s with every interior option from average to top end special edition models, my latest C4S "full leather" interior blows them away. Not even close. Suede head liner to full leather and aluminum on the C4S. The old air cooled cars had lots of plastic, including the door handles that flexed when you pulled on them. The door cards were flimsy and so were the door pockets. Felt carpets in most 911s in the trunk. Fit and finish is just better in every way on the newer 996. I have competed with 911s in PCA concourse for two decades, I know what a quality interior looks and feels like. The water cooled 911s have evolved and raised the bar significantly.

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Hopefully you know better than to take such commentary from me seriously Yes I like the 996 interior better than the 993s and 997s I've been in. I also like the MkI front end though as well as the taco wing, so make of my style opinions what you will

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Get thee to Vertex Auto, [phone removed] 3030 SW 38th AVE, Miami, FL 33146 125 miles from you, speak with Wayne.... PM, Glad to help out if needed, I'm 15 miles from Vertex.

I lied, 142 miles from you, 125 miles from you to me.

That engine is DOA... The bearing failed, and seized the inner and outer races... This fuses the flange onto the inner race and makes it non- removable. No repair here; you already have collateral damage thats probably including bent valves on bank 1, IMS tensioner paddle shock, and a ton of ferromagnetic debris that has circulated through every internal of the engine. Game over for this one. Trying to patch up, or repair this will be wasted effort. You'll have to learn that the hard way, though. Based on what I see, this bearing had failed before it got to the shop, or while they were pulling it into the shop. I don't thing they snapped the stud off, I believe the stud snapping was from the normal trauma of the bearing failing. Why did the car go to the shop? Did it have IMSB symptoms? Looks like you waited too late to retrofit this one.

The master just weighed in ^^^^^^ it looks like this engine is done. Sorry, that sucks.

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Did I miss the year and mileage of the car???

As rolex11 suggested - I would give these guys a call. It appears your engine is toast. Since they are within flatbed distance, maybe they could get your car, evaluate the situation and give you some informed recommendations. A short block, or long block replacement engine. Take a deep breath, this is going to be $$$. http://www.vertexauto.com/

It has 138K miles on it. I was changing the IMS due to wanting to prevent any chance of this happening. It never even leaked a drop of oil or make a single noise and ran fine getting there, but as I have read so many times on here that it can happen in a blink of an eye (I was 1.5 years ago going to have the upgrade done but got side tracked - Big mistake on my part). I am glad I didn't be dis-respectful to the shop I took it to, being what they said was correct. Thank you Jake Raby for letting me know what I am looking at. Now I have some tough decisions to make with it. Jake could you tell me if the engine can be rebuilt or do I have to purchase a new one. Also you said the races were seized onto the shaft, would that shaft have to be replaced which I read on here is not in a standard rebuild correct?

Can the car be driveable with a seized bearing??? I though the car was asymptomatic prior to this adventure....

Yikes, I didn't think there was a catastrophic and instantaneous failure mode to the bearing. All I've ever heard is the slow death rattle, metal particles in the oil, or the crunching of bearing parts as they left the building. Bearing seizure would typically be associated with a loud howl or whine as the bearing races welded themselves to the carrier. And typically a ball bearing will give plenty of audible notice before seizure. OP, did you get any audible warning from the engine on the way to the shop? Bearing seizure is not generally a silent event.

Nothing at all. In fact i didn't know where they wanted me to pull it into and jumped out of the car and left it running while i ran into the front office to ask i man behind the counter if i should pull it to the garage bay entrance or leave it out front in the customer parking. I didn't hear a sound. I was instructed to pull to the open bay on the side and the man drove it in the rest of the way onto the lift while i was still standing there. Ohh well, I guess I have to not worry about how and focus on next step. BTW do these engines have numbers that would match the VIN on my car or is that something they no longer do in this day and age?

I'm hoping this engine makes its way to Jake for actual FA. Sounds like it was running fine right up until the shop started working on it. Did the mileage on the odo match what you had when dropped off? Did they start work the same day you dropped it off? Shops have been known to take nice cars and hot lap them before working to do a 'test drive' on intake. This whole things sound pretty suspicious to me.

First question is, how much are you interested in putting into your car? If it needs a new engine, are you interested in taking that costly path or would rather dump it and sell it as a roller? If you're keeping it, I'd find a Porsche shop (not one that generally does "European" cars ) and have them take a look to validate Jake's opinion before deciding which direction to go. -Eric

I'm pretty sure they didn't drive it because by the time my wife picked me up they had already asked me if i wanted to replace a piece of plastic that acts like a bottom shield in front of the driver side rear tire that was only like $80 that had a small crack in it. I said sure. They said it would take 1 day to get in and wanted to order right away. They even walked me back there to show me. I was just reading on here some old posts on valuation on rebuilding or just going out and buying a replacement or upgrading to maybe a newer model. From my initial research on here, looks like I can get a rebuild anywhere from roughly 15-25K depending on builder and quality of builder Plus I guess I will need to replace the shaft that the races are seized on that Jake Raby mentioned on a post earlier which I don't know the cost of but will assume around 3,000 plus shipping the car either north or south depending on the current recommendations of the posts earlier so lets say roughly another 1,000 (Just using round numbers- Not precise) that puts it somewhere between 19k -29K. Other cars with less mileage on the car itself (not the engine) and with a newly rebuilt engine realistically are selling for around 20K at best. Just analyzing this logically from a strictly a financial stand point in this analysis at this point. So if I amy realistically spending 30k, should I throw another 10k or 20k with it and upgrade?

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Heh. I was about to suggest you get the number off the motor and then call PCNA to see if they confirm it belongs to your VIN. That they had the motor out bugs me and I tend toward the paranoid side. Of course if it's not a match, you have to minder if the shop is pulling a fast one or if a PO swapped it previously.

Sorry this happened... Look at the numbers differently... A 996 with 138,000 miles was probably a $10-12,000 car realistically. At least, I have seen them sell for that in the Midwest. You can probably sell the car, as is, for $4000 or so. So, you are out $8000. Fixing the motor for $20,000 plus doesn't make economic sense. The car will still be worth about $15k... you just increased your losses. Sell the car for $4000, add $10-15,000 to it, and you can gave another, better, 996 within a couple days... Or, scrounge for a salvage motor for 6-7000$, and install that...

Whats year is your 996? Is it a 6spd?

Look, you're getting some good suggestions on here, but...you need to have your situation professionally diagnosed by a very good knowledgeable Porsche shop. Why not talk with Vertex, figure out how you can get the car there and see how it goes from there? Everything else is speculation, which is not bad, and we are only trying to help you out.

Before selling it as a roller, maybe verifying what Jake suspects would be prudent...

From looking at the Vertex site, the rebuilt motors seem reasonably priced. But from the fine print, the core motor has to have reusable cylinders, crank, etc... Would the crank be reusable in this case? Cylinders/pistons?

Do be to quick to make any decisions yet. Get the car to a professional that can give you real world options.

Car was running when you drove it into the shop for a PM bearing replacement. No whining, no squealing or the dreaded marbles in a can sounds prior. In my opinion, and only an opinion, I think the shop *dicked* up the job royally and there may be a reasonable core left. The internal destruction of the engine as Jake has described might have occurred, or not, if the engine had been run, but it wasn't. So it leaves it as anybody's best guess, and in the end only a knowledgeable Porsche shop is going to be able to tell you after they tear into it. And a word to the wise - get your engine number and write it down...now! I'm not as paranoid as Gnat, but he has a good point. Not sure of the reputation of the original shop that had your car, and showing you a busted up engine instead of yours would not be beyond some really shady shops, then telling you you need a $$ replacement engine. And it could be that PCNA could have a record of the original VIN/Engine number match, unless it was replaced at some point in time by someone other than a Porsche dealer. Basically, I doubt you'll find out but it's worth a shot.

Get it on a flatbed and away from that shop as fast as you can. There are plenty of talented indys out there who can set your car right.

It is a cabriolet with automatic transmission. From what I have seen on here the automatic transmission cars are not very desirable. I would probably have to agree with a earlier poster, by the way Jake Raby used his terminology in his post the engine sounded like it would not be rebuildable or at the very least would be needed more than a standard rebuild would need. As far as shipping the car for further analysis, that seems like it may just be another expense to validate what the shop said and confirmed by the poster Jake Raby on here that seems to be highly regarded. The poster that remarked on the financial deficit made very valid points using financial logic.

Everything in this thread is not intuitive. Too many things don't add up. If the engine failed like Jake described, the oil filter should be full of metal flakes. A normal shop would have saved that smoking gun to show the owner. Seems like oil filter was never mentioned?

Sell it as a roller, sell the engine on ebay noted with IMS issue, buy a Miata with auto, and enjoy life. You got ****ed this time, you aren't the first, won't be the last. Sorry for your loss.

The shop replaced the IMS...screwed it up. Took it for a test drive. Engine blew. Now they are covering their tracks. That's my theory...

I think the OPs original good engine is in one of those cars on the lot for sale and the IMS failed engine from that car was shown to this owner. So, the 911 on the lot has his good engine, and he's got a pile of melted metal goo. Running fine when brought in is highly inconsistent with seized IMS bearing. I've heard a LOT of bearings fail, and never had one go without plenty of noise. Marbles in a can, death rattle, howl, whine, hum, bugle -- something.

The conjecture going on here is...impressive. A shop (possibly) botching an IMS is one thing; a shop defrauding a customer by stealing his engine and installing it into a different chassis is another. As much as I find it almost always irritating when someone mentions Occam's razor...it's applicable here. "Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected." The fewest assumptions to be made in this case: The engine is OP's, and it's broken for some not-entirely-known reason. Ahsai's theory is that the cams might have been improperly locked. Raby's theory is that the bearing managed to fail tragically and coincidentally with arriving at the shop. Doc's theory is that grand larceny is involved with swapping OP's engine into their own for-sale vehicle. Regardless of who is right, OP has the option to (a) take the shop at face value and dump the car, or (b) elicit a second opinion before acting.

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I read all the theories and that's the simplest one and the one that makes the most sense. Sorry about your loss. I would still be highly suspicious of the shop and take legal action if possible. If they screwed it up and know it, they would be more inclined to settle. At least most people would. A botched job should have the new bearing stuck in there or obviously used/damaged.

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I agree that a shady swap isn't likely, but it's not impossible. I think too many things just don't add up here which is what leads to the wilder speculations. Engine sounded fine when it was pulled into the bay, told the bearing was found to be seized, told there was debris but no evidence shown, customer shows up and finds the motor out when there was no call for it to be out. It just smells too fishy to be a coincidental/unknown random bearing failure. OP is definitely nicer than me. I would have be apoplectic if I showed up and found my motor out when there was no call for it to be so and they couldn't produce the debris laden oil. I'd really love to see the results of a trusted competent mechanic looking into this motor to find out what it's real state is and if they can deduce what happened.

Recap: 1) OP drops off car for IMSB replacement. Car runs fine, no symptoms of IMSB failure or impending doom 2) Shop pulls engine and proceeds to replace IMSB - Yes. 3) Shop screws it up, pulls one tensioner and not the other, and possibly also fails to lock the cams correctly - Probably. 4) Shop breaks inner shaft because they don't know what they are doing. IMS and IMSB are cranked to one side and the assembly (flange and bearing) will not come out - Yes. 5) Shop reports to OP his engine is toast and needs to be replaced. 6) OP reaches out to Rennlist and everybody tells him to run...fast. 7) OP tells shop to put engine back in car and has it flat-bedded to his garage. 8) OP does not know now what state the IMS, flange and IMSB is in. Don't even know if they bolted it back in (highly unlikely). 9) OP needs an expert evaluation and needs to get his car/engine to a professional, or just sell it as a roller. Did I miss anything? At no point in time after dropping off the car did the engine run according to the OP. So what if...what if...the shop only screwed up the IMSB replacement and the engine is not totally destroyed? Again, only an expert professional evaluation is going to solve this mystery.

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Yeah something definitely doesn't add up. I mean they had the motor out, could've been a different motor and they also solicited you in wanting to buy it off you? Something is shady here...

Just to clarify, I believe Jake said only the races of the bearing were seized. Not to the ball bearings, but the surfaces between the races and the shaft/flange. It makes it non serviceable, but OP may have gotten well more than 138k miles out of the car.

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Right. Question 1 would have been "Why the F**K is my engine on your workbench" and we would have gone from there. There have only been three occasions where Mrs. Schnell has had to drag me away from situations where I was intent on killing someone. This would have been the fourth - and had they requested payment as shop did with OP, someone would have wound up with a rectum full of credit card machine. OP, I really feel for you, and I hope you do decide to do some sleuthing rather than just flatbedding it into oblivion. Adjusted... One benefit of regular DIY: I know I could identify my engine if necessary - there are things that I've done I would be able to recognize.

"I'd really love to see the results of a trusted competent mechanic looking into this motor to find out what it's real state is and if they can deduce what happened." ^And if it actually belongs to/with the car^

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Yes, that's the way I understood it as well. The bearing was (is) still spinning. However, I would expect the ***** to be all chewed up and an oil filter like a fuzz ball full of metal flakes in that case. No one has ever mentioned the oil filter so far.

If someone in your family went to a doctor to get their blood pressure taken, pulse, listen to heart, and a blood test. Family member was fine going there, blood pressure and all things done at the office were fine, but then the blood test came in 2 days later and the doctor called and said you have cancer and 6 weeks to live. And let's say the doctor was someone new down the road that has never seen your family member before. What would you do? Here's a Clue.....GO SEE A SPECIALIST!! Vertex Auto in Miami. Or any known shop that you are sure of that knows 996's. Drop mic...exit stage left...

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Clap....clap....clap....clap....clap

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I like where you were going, but I think your analogy is flawed. How about : After having your fourth kid, you go in to have your junk snipped. All is well when you fall asleep, but when you wake up, you see your twig and berries sitting on a table across the room. The doc explains that there was an unexpected complication - and then offers to sell you a $20,000 *****.

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Excuse me, but this would certainly push me toward the swapped OP's engine camp. That, plus the fact they have 996 cars for sale on the lot right now speaks volumes. I do have my tin foil hat on though, and it's cramping my head right now. So, a blown engine 996 roller is worth $8k. A running car worth maybe $20k. Hmmmmm? I love the reference to Occams razor! Well done. I'm hoping we can get Schrodinger's cat in somewhere. Back in the 60s, Hertz teamed up with Ford/Shelby to offer a rental option of a Shelby prepared Mustang GT350. It was - hilarious. Rent a racer. What could go wrong? Well, it seems that some folks smarter than the average rental counter goober would rent the car for 2 days, take it home, remove the HiPo Shelby engine, stuff a 260CuIn 165HP Falcon engine in there, button it up with the decals and valve covers then return it to the Hertz counter, no one the wiser.

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Anyone who uses Occam's razor is invariably a pompous a-hole. Since I'm the guilty party, I guess I have reinforced this correlation. Dammit.

OP really needs to verify first that the engine that he has in his car now is the same engine that was in the car when he brought it in. Personally I smell a bait and switch tactic going on with the engine. He really needs to do this first as someone could be diagnosing the wrong engine, one that could've had a bad failure.

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I say you get a pass, because you used it correctly. And it's pretty much past being a theory into a postulate stage IMNSHO.

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Holy parsimony! Let's vote shall we? A) Switched engine B) Botched the IMS install-grenaded engine C) Coincidence

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Isn't the IMSB a good real world example? Just because you aren't finding metal doesn't mean all is well. The only way to know for sure is to look at it and in doing so you have now tampered with its state. Would it have gone 5 miles or 100,000 miles more if you hadn't messed with it?

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I think a D position of "botched IMSB install, but engine is repairable" is warranted.

"Anyone who uses Occam's razor is invariably a pompous a-hole. Since I'm the guilty party, I guess I have reinforced this correlation. Dammit." On a similar note, anyone who uses Occam's razor is bound to get nicked...

If you can tell me where to look for the engine identification number on the engine, I will write it down (is it possible to see with the engine in the car?). I have all of the original paperwork and window sticker I kept from new. Would I be able to verify engine number I find on engine with any of that paperwork or do I need to contact the North American Porsche that a earlier poster suggested?

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Yes it is. Driver side. Not sure on the last question.

Great, that looks like it will be easily accessible. I will go and take a pic with my iPhone. Thank You, I really appreciate it!

As long as we are throwing problem solving principles and paradoxical quantum superpositions in here...how about just plain ole Murphy's Law? Particularly with M96/97 engine repairs...been in there, done that....and then ordered the new parts. LOL Hey...post up your engine number! Want to see that...

Have you done any DIY fixes to the engine i.e. taped anything, patched anything, replaced a part that you bought yourself, any recognizable dents scratches or marking on the sump plate or areas, anything that you could identify by sight... if so look for those fixes and verify they are present, if not, not the same engine... I know if someone took out my engine, I would be able to recognize it by the fixes I've done myself and I've only had mine 7 months. For example I put extensions on the coil pack heat shields when I upgraded the 996 coils to the 997 coils, i could identify the serpentine belt as I put some marks on it myself, I have a magnetic drain plug, etc. Of course I know my engine number so that would not be an issue for me, but for OP I am just saying....

For half a tick I thought that was OP's engine number and I was unable to process.

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No there is nothing in the original purchase documentation that tells you what you engine number is. As far as I know begging Porsche to tell you is the only option. Just remember, even if it doesn't match that still doesn't mean foul play unless you can somehow otherwise prove the motor was never swapped previously.

This is a complete shot in the dark, but you could look at the metadata on the image files they sent you. I would pay attention to the creation date. http://regex.info/exif.cgi

I called Dealership where it was purchased from and the man look up old service records of mine and asked me to tell him the number and he could confirm if it was the same (to not give out info over the phone). It was confirmed.

Good to hear. I guess the next step would be figure out if you want to save YOUR motor.

I suggest you remove the oil filter and oil pan and see what you find there (minimal diy skills and tools). If you find lot's of debris, then at least you can confirm your engine needs a rebuild without investing extra $$ to further diagnose it. If it's not, you still have some hope and can still consider taking it to a reputable shop for evaluation. You have nothing to lose at this point. Also, did they mention anything about that IMSB center stud broken off? I didn't see the broken piece in the photos. If it was sheared off, it would have dropped out when they removed the transmsission. I would expect they show you a broken piece. Or they just removed the center nut and pushed the stud into the IMS while trying to remove the flange?

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Given that (the engine number is correct), I vote for D. Do a D. DDDDDDDD Please consider getting it to Vertex.

Did you all understand Jake Raby to say in his post that the block was not rebuildable? In which case would I need to buy another engine new or have to buy a used engine and have it rebuilt (which seems would be more costly than a new one is even if Porsche sell 01 3.4L anymore which i thought i read they do not)? I take it even with no metal parts or pieces (visible to the eye) that the IMS replacement is totally out of the question, correct.

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This is what I'm thinking. In fact, I don't even think they used or have the proper IMS tools. I bet if OP went to the shop again and asked them to show him the IMS tools, they wouldn't be able to produce any. They would say they threw it away with the oil they drained as it's a one time use tool, or something like that.

You kind of get the sense from some of the posts that the car might have been worked on by a bunch of inexperienced non-mechanical gypsies in a back alley garage... Was this car at a reputable shop? A reputable dealer? Where it was being worked on may limit the scope of what might have happened... It would be nice to find out what really happened. At some point, the name of the shop will come out as it always does...

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Well at least that's some good news.

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No. Not correct. I think they botched the job because they had a lack of experience and did not have the proper tools. Look, they messed it up...clearly. The only way the engine would suffer the damage Jake suggested was if it were run, which is not the case. The only true way you will find out is to have a experienced knowledgeable professional Porsche mechanic look it over. It will take some $ to have it flat bedded, and some $ to have it evaluated. If it were me (and since I'm a little crazy about my car) I would have it done in a heartbeat. There might be some collateral damage, but then again, maybe not. Even $1000 for towing and an evaluation is better than $12000 for a rebuilt motor and another $5000 labor and parts. You don't know where it stands right now and you need to know. Or, give up, sell as a roller and move on.

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Yes, that's what Jake said - and that was based on a lot of experience. However, it was also a diagnosis of an engine based on a couple of photos and no other data. I will gladly diagnose your wife's health if you'll send me a couple of pictures of her...never mind. Jake's opinion is that the car was destroyed on the way to or at the garage. Did the shop indicate that - in their opinion - the car experienced a catastrophic failure as they were pulling it onto the lift? Or was the car seemingly fine until the engine was removed? If the former, they did you a disservice by trying to install a bearing into an engine that they just witnessed destroy itself. This seems like a stretch to me. OTOH, they seemed awfully sure your engine is toast; I'd sure like to know more about why they seem certain you should be buying a new motor. In the words of Tom Callanan, "I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's a**, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it." In your case, the butcher has only seen a picture of the bull's a** - and while he's a really good butcher, maybe he ain't right.

So when I start contacting the different places suggested by earlier poster, I need to ask if they have a complete motor, due to a likely possibility that my engine is not rebuildable. (I understand that Jake Raby post was based on simply looking at 4 pictures with extremely limited information - But that post I have to admit has been extremely helpful especially with his highly regarded reputation on here. It gives me a realistic idea what I can be looking at before throwing money to hear a similar thing). Then it still allows me to have a financialy logic approach to making a decision to upgrade without having put anymore money into it.

Had they produced photos like these (from Renntech and imsrefrofit.com), it would have been a very easy case. These are typical smoking gun photos a shop will show a customer when they break the news.

No, the filter when they showed it to me had no visible metal. They only commented on a shimmer that extremely minor to my untrained eye.

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Jake will admit he is wrong from time to time and you can hope he is so this time No one knows these motors like he does so what he says carries a lot of weight, but the only way to know for sure is to get it looked at. Ahsai offered some basic things you can do to try to determine your next steps. Assuming that there is indeed no sign of the bearing failing then replacing the bearing may be an option, but it has to be done by someone that really knows what they are doing. It's too easy for the other shopped to have messed something up that won't be obvious and could still cost you the motor in the future. If you go down the path of saving this motor DO NOT CUT CORNERS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Do it right or you will regret it in the future.

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how close are you to Jacksonville, call seth at technical dimensions

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This is a horrible scenario. Well intended preventive maintenance gone terribly wrong. Almost on the same level as going to jail for something you didn't do... (okay, maybe not quite that bad) I'm a noob, non-mechanic, non-engineer, so take that for what it's worth. But I feel that Jake Raby likely made some assumptions to come to his conclusion. And the problem is, the only people who "really" know the accurate chain of events is the shop who screwed it up. If you knew for sure that your engine was full of shredded bearing bits, then I would say Jake's comments are on point. but nobody can tell from looking at the photos and the lack of defining info. I agree with those who say you should check the oil pan. For that matter, is it possible from the pics to tell from the photos if that IMSB is the original one, or a replacement? Which new IMSB were they to put in? I've read this thread from start to finish and on the edge of my seat because my C2 Cab is in for IMSB and a ton of other " I-got-an-inexpensive-996-with-zero-service-history-paranoia-induced-preventative-maintenance" . Now that you know it is indeed your engine, the real question becomes whether they screwed it up when trying to take the old IMSB out, or if they finished the swap and things went south on the test drive. If they screwed when trying to pull the bearing out, you should be able to salvage that engine. If it got trashed on test drive, then start engine shopping.

MB Motorsport offers competitive pricing on their M96 motors/rebuilds and are located in Florida.

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oh. no. you. dee. int.

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You're adopting the worst possible case scenario as the foundation for your action plan. I don't know why, since several people have advised you to at least consider the possibility that your engine is not a write-off. But, you seem averse to considering any other opinions than Jakes, which I can understand but not agree with. I can understand not wanting to spend $20K on a $20K car, but I can't understand walking away from an investment and spending tens of thousands on a replacement to avoid spending a few hundred bucks for a proper diagnosis. At any rate, good luck. Be sure to let whoever buys it know that the engine might not actually be done - people won't generally make this assumption with a roller. And regardless of what you do or your reasons for doing it - sorry that you got boned when all you were trying to do was ensure your car continued to be healthy.

They were going to instal the LN IMS solution. I feel lucky I got so miles out of the car, sure it doesn't feel great to be presented with a costly problem. But realistically, if I had done this earlier than 138k miles, I would have done my self a favor. I blame myself for not handling a potential problem that has been documented to occur in the 996. Whatever the shop did or didn't do, really has little to do with me going forward to achieving the goal.

Looks like a Christmas ornament.

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I would have preferred the engine numbers not match. Then I'd call the Attorney General's office and have them show up with a subpoena to check the number on the other 996 on the lot. However, now that we know the engine in question is the correct engine, there is little doubt that the shop screwed up. At a minimum, call your credit card company or bank and stop payment on the $800 you paid them. The next call should be to your attorney...

Well, my tin foil hat was not needed after all. And, that's a good thing. Now - for the "E" ticket option. I have heard, but not tested that a similar year Boxster S engine will go in this car with minimal conversion factor. Is it something I am recommending? No - it is not. Will it get the car back on the road for the LEAST possible cost? Why yes, yes I think it will. The OP seems to be concerned about the financial aspect, and not so much the performance. Go to Ebay.com. Type in "Boxster S engine", and hit search. Ask the shop if they are interested in doing the swap over. Again, not a recommendation, but - it's a way out.

^ That is terrible advice in my opinion.

Thank you.

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Watch this video from Jake showing you how to remove the oil pan (start at 6:25). You don't even need to jack up the car. Spend $4.99 on this socket set http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-to...set-47902.html 13 bolts and 10 minutes later you have the truth. Flat 6 Innovations installation of LN Engineering Deep Sump Kit Part 1 - YouTube

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Reasonableness and sanity is NOT the Rennlist way. Either start getting upset and threaten to sue everyone and makes enemies of everyone who has ever touched your car or else.

What the shop did or did not do is absolutely the heart of the issue. You can't be sure unless you have someone that knows what they're doing look at it. Dude, you're just wasting your time and giving yourself an ulcer by delaying and trying to rely on diagnosis from people on the forums. Nobody has seen it in person and nobody knows what that shop did. You were actually just semi-convinced that the shop stole your engine and put in a broken one! Stop the madness, take it to a reputable Porsche shop and let them tell you exactly what the situation is.

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That's a healthy dose of logic right there...

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For us on the sidelines that might have been an awesome result, but there is a long road between finding out the numbers don't match and proving they did when he dropped it off. To me the numbers matching would say the ball is entirely in my court and I wouldn't be stuck being able to do nothing while investigations and legal battles worked their way through their processes. The fewer parties involved at this point, the better.

This thread is befuddling. Stuff just ain't adding up right.

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It's a silly discussion considering that's not what happened, but, if the number on the engine in the other 996 happened to be the number of the engine that was supposed to be in my car, well, I would imagine there wouldn't be too much investigating to do. Saving up to $20k would be worth it to me.

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Once you got to that point yes, but the evidence and time needed to get the search warrant to perform such a check. In that time said car could have been sold so now you have to get another warrant for the records (if it wasn't already) and then track any sold cars down. That also doesn't account for if they sold the motor on or put it in another customer's car. If they were bad enough to steal a motor the chances of them not doctoring records and damaging the serial numbers isn't too much of a stretch. And if they happened to get wind of the coming storm before it hit they could do things to make it that much harder. The whole time all of that is going on they would probably want the car and motor impounded as evidence.

I've had this exact same thing happen... A car pulled in the driveway after being drive from Texas for an IMSR preventative package... He pulls in the drive and his wife says she heard a noise. He told her that he stalled the car and no big deal... He though the car stalled... It was the IMS Bearing failing. He was already in a parking place, so the car stays there. Luckily after the shop tour I told him to pull the car into our staging area, and it would not start.. Bearing failed. Had he left, or had I been the one that started the car, I would have been blamed for that failure since it occurred while under my care, and control. True story.

A couple years ago, I pulled into the parking lot of a local indy (indie?) shop, just to say hello. The shop owner said, "hey, let me hear the car with that Fabspeed exhaust," so I tossed him the keys. Click... click... nada. This is after I had been out driving all day, with nary an issue. Turns out the fuel pump failed, right there in the shop's parking lot, five feet from the service bay. Even so, I find OP's story highly implausible as it is told.

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Anything is possible Jake and it certainly is easier when the person is right there. Had it been under your care when it failed what would your answer to the following questions be? 1) would you have had the motor out without any explanation as to why? 2) would you have reported issues with the oil, but maintained no evidence for the customer? I think we all know the answer to both those questions and that is what, I think, makes the big difference for those of us saying everything isn't cricket here.

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Interesting...usually when someone says "True story"...well, you know... Don't get me wrong - I love how your far-fetched stories always seem to beneficially(for you) follow a crazy narrative that is posted by some poor member here but excuse me if I don't believe your doubtful stories. Fairy tails...I think I have described them this way in the past... To the OP, get the engine checked by a trusted mechanic...as many others here have said, the facts of this story do not add up!!!

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I like talking about cars so I often strike up conversations with shop owners and techs when I bring my car in for service or if I'm picking up parts to install myself. Two separate shops (dealer and indy) both recalled stories of the IMS bearing going bad while the customer was driving the car over to have it replaced. In one case it went bad as the owner was waiting for them to open the garage door so he could drive it inside. Boom. Car was pushed inside. So it does happen. Rare, absolutely, but it does happen. I was a service advisor at Firestone for over a year (my first job out of college). It was a regular occurrence, about once a month, we would be accused either directly or by implication of causing damage to a customer's car to generate more business. In reality this never happened. Never. Oil change and now your A/C doesn't work? New tires and now your car wont start? Replaced a tie rod end and now your muffler is rusted out? Inspected your car (it passed) and now your trunk latch doesn't work? Even people I knew who were getting the absolute best service and advice possible questioned that they needed a tune up after 150,000 miles and the car never seeing a day of maintenance !!!! so, there's that.

[QUOTE="DreamCarrera;13504126"] Fairy tails...I think I have described them this way in the past... /QUOTE] Do you often accuse people of lying? Have you even met him or at least talked to him on the phone? It just seems like arrogance on your part unless you have facts to back it up. As to the OP, good luck on getting back up and running. It sucks that the shop appears to have botched your job but I respect you attitude of not fretting it and just moving forward. I would avoid buying rebuilt or used engines. There is way too much variation in them. The factory still sells short blocks if that is an option for yours but like others have repeated, until you get it to reputable shop it's tough to tell.

I agree. I commend the OP for being professional under this situation. These cars are suppose to be fun and toys for many of us. I don't ever get mad with my toys. I take a step back and consider all the options and keep it in perspective. I have a lawyer that handles issues when all avenues have broken down. It's never personal.

Thank You, to all of the great people on here for the great advice. Me and my wife figured a great way to make this negative to turn into a positive and get our"Happy Back" as she says. Going to get our 996 fixed/rebuilt whatever is needed within reason and go this weekend and purchase and look for the best porsche option we can get without going over 35 - 40k. So in the end we will still have our 996 and a newer model. This way we stayed roughly in our 50k budget. Thanks again to all the great folks on here!

Outstanding.. It really helps with a understanding wife on board.

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[QUOTE=Slakker;13504435] I had the opportunity to meet up with Jake yesterday.........long story. Besides feeling like a kid in a candy store, I saw a bucket full of shrapnel and an IMS that had fused itself together just like what is being described. It can happen.

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Wait, so you are going to have two now? Sweet!

After reading this post I conclude Jason 996 is a master lemonade maker, good for you.

Good plan, and nice wife support. I think I'd be looking at a turbo. No M96. And in closing, I'd like to apologize for fueling the speculation. The circumstances were a bit peculiar, and I have nothing to support any more ideas of nefarious activity by a small service shop. The failure mode of this bearing continues to surprise, and stymie me. I've been on the wrong end of uneeded services on my wife's car, and it's very frustrating.

Cool! A 2-car option! Hold onto both for long enough and you'll realize a positive ROI. Can't wait to hear what you get!!! Thoughts on which year/model you are going to shop for?

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There are times when luck isn't on your side.. This wasn't one of them. Don't really understand this one. Would I have pulled the engine, or would it have been pulled out for some other reason? If that would have happened here I would have found the symptoms of the issue at hand, and would have went into full documentation mode. We would have stopped in our tracks; because, the engine would have no longer be retrofittable, as it would have failed the pre- qualification. At the point that happens all hands are off the car until the owner is notified, and fully understands the situation, and a plan of action is formed. We do no work without written consent, and we will not alter plans without executed amendments to those consents, should we find a situation like this. Everything here is transparent, and documented. No stories, and the more intense the situation, the more it is documented and the straighter the talk is about the situation, and how to remedy it. The story isn't adding up. Lots of shops have poor communication skills, or lack the administrative ability to convey situations properly. In this instance, someone simply was not paying attention, as the major symptom of the center stud shearing is a huge oil leak stemming from the hole in the center of the IMS flange. Lots of times the difference in the final outcome isn't 100% found in the act of performing a retrofit. The end result depends on how much extra effort went into doing that job the best it could be done, and that includes administratively. Now, the best case scenario for the IMS Retrofit technology is exactly what has happened here. Why? Let me explain: In this case the procedure failed before it even started. See, someone should have properly evaluated this engine through sump and filter inspections, and the other listed items before the transaxle was ever removed to facilitate the IMSR procedure! This clearly did not happen in the proper order. The damaged flange is what stopped the process, not the failure of the pre- evaluation, like it should have. So.... Hypothetically speaking, had the original IMSB in this engine been at stage 3 failure, rather than stage 4 failure (center stud snapped) the flange would not have been fused onto the bearing, and the unit could be retrofitted.... In this case the debris from the stage 3 failure would have already contaminated the engine, and if retrofitted the retrofit bearing would have failed at a later date. That failure would have been the (assumed) fault of the bearing, and the real story would have never came to surface. This is the situation that's played out before, but it didn't have the chance, this time. No one ever knows.

! Sounds like a very cool wife and please post pic when you get it!

Considering the damage, is there any way to tell if the IMSB was old or new? If it's possible, this could easily determine if the bearing failure was a massive coincidence, or negligence...

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Either, the key point is that you would have explained it to the customer if you did. In this case it went in for a job that typically does not require the motor to be removed and there was apparently no reason given to the customer as to why his motor was not in his car. I'm not digging at you here. Just illustrating how business should be done (your way) vs how it was done in this case. I get things happen and I get a short phone call is a poor medium to convey technical information. Seems like there was little effort done to clarify the situation once the customer was on site though. There's no excuse for that in my book.

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The key is communication, coupled to documentation and "give a damn". Without the latter, you'll never have the former. I want to stay out of conflicts at all costs, and that means everyone understands everything at all times. I just finished an hour long phone call gong over a bunch of crazy pieces that someone botched into a DE car, so the owner would understand. They plumbed the accusump hose into the oil pressure sender location on the cylinder head using a -10 AN hose.... Yes, -10 adapted down to a 10mm fitting with an ID of .275".

I'd still be curious if the shop that was going to carry out the IMS solution install on op's car even had the faultless tool on hand, or even the regular IMS tool and just how many they have performed in the past. Those are the first things I would normally ask if I were taking it to an unknown shop.

Park it and leave it until January 20th.... When sworn in, Trump is going to make all 996 Porsche's great again.... He's going to replace everyone's IMSB and make Germany pay for it.... He's going to deport all non-996 Porsche's thus demand and prices will skyrocket.... Jake Raby is going to be named Sec. of Defense.... And of course he's going to market his own brand of motor oil DT2016, putting to rest which oil is the best for our cars.... Ahhh...it will be morning in America....

Yes, let's absolutely turn this into a political discussion. Because having a trigger-happy egotistical nightmare in the oval office is WAY worse than having a lying, deceitful shrew who has already proven she has no regard for the law of the land in the oval office. One would almost certainly start a nuclear war with Iran; the other will continue to bribe Iran. Yay us. This is going to be the second election in my life where I'll be writing myself in as a useless act of social protest.

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Or, as the typical unknowing owner hears it, "They plumbed the [insert Peanuts adult speak]." and then says, "Oh, well, that's pretty effing stupid. What do you recommend?" At which time you say, "[insert Peanuts adult speak]." And the typical unknowing owner replies, "Well, that sounds reasonable..." BUT...jokes aside, I agree with you. At the end of the day, it all comes down to communication. Eliminate or limit, to the best of your ability, any unnecessary surprises and it will better for all of the parties involved. -Eric

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What I find so comical is that there are people who don't realize the description "lying, deceitful shrew who has already proven she has no regard for the law of the land in the oval office" is also an accurate description of the "trigger-happy egotistical nightmare." But what scares me most is that the "trigger-happy egotistical nightmare" speaks with the vocabulary and temper of an ill tempered adolescent in a sandbox fight: "Stupid ugly face Johnny was mean to me. He was. He was unfair. Very unfair. Unfair and mean. I want to punch him in the face he was so mean. It's unfair. It is." -Eric

Trump is both belligerent and inconsistent. Terrifying traits for a guy who has access to "the football." Both candidates are eminently untrustworthy in my unsolicited opinion...

A little comic relief after 153 posts on a very unfortunate situation for the OP. my bad...

Yes, but how long do you freeze it? http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/rai...pse-1592575661

What about legal representation, if we go back to the beginning the op has taken his car running completely fine by all accounts for an upgrade for piece of mind and ended up with a broken engine, it's some coincidence if this ims failed on the ramp in the shop, I don't believe that, these guys have messed this up, he should be rights be able to take his car to a reputable shop and get it put right then send them the bill. You don't take on work if your not confident you can carry it out successfully and if you do and it messes up then you have to pay to put it right !

Blimey. Just read all of this thread. What a nightmare. Sympathies to the OP, but as others have said a credit to you - and your Mrs - for finding a positive way forward. Did you ever establish whether the mileage is the same now as when the car was taken to the dubious shop? That would at least rule out the "shop took it for a test drive" theory. Cars do die in potentially suspicious circumstances. Take my first car, a '74 VW. Dropped it off with a mechanic friend for some brake work, he called me the same afternoon to say the engine was seized. And it was, too - I rode my bike to his shop and there's my car, exactly where I parked it, with the engine seized solid. Since I was a poor student at the time, he let me use his shop to rebuild the engine. Nice bloke.

A little late entering the string, but: Run. The ***. Away. Raby would reBUILD the engine for that kind of money. And, better. Or, you can have the IMS replaced for perhaps a tenth that amount.

Correction: It pays to actually READ THE THREAD before pontificating (on my part). Sounds like badness all the way around. Hope someone can fix or replace or rebuild what remains of the engine. Sorry for your loss.