Recaro Sportster CS

After last week at Roebling I have decided to put some sportsters in the 4S. A better seating position should take some stress out of the wheel. I can't seem to find anyone with them in stock, Vivid says they do until ypu call them. Also, probably going to pony up for a pair of bbi sliders as well, flat6 shows them in stock. got a nice schroth 4 point harness from another forum member. Also. Found a Brey Krause harness bar on marketplace. So hopefully I'll be able to have them in before my next DE.

We'd be able to order you some RECARO Sportsters, lead time is looking like 8-12 weeks. Trenton O. Gibson [email removed] Highline Autos Direct: [phone removed] Office: [phone removed]

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FYSA, check with the organizations you will plan to do DEs with. A number of them do not allow 4 point harnesses. KJ

The RECARO Sportster CS is 3 and 4 point compliant. Trenton O. Gibson [email removed] Highline Autos Direct: [phone removed] Office: [phone removed]

I run mostly with PCA clubs and haven't seen any prohibition on 4 points since I also street this car I dont want to force my wife into a 5 point harness. Im going to leave the factory 3 points in parallel if I can

Do the Schroth 4-point harnesses feature asm? https://www.schroth.com/en/racing/se...schroth-asm-r/

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From PCA de minimum standards. My friend has sportster with the sub strap hole in the seat bottom to run 6 points.

The sportster cs don't have a sub hole in them. Also, I'm not using the factory seats, so I'm not sure how that works. BTW, I did purchase FIA schroth harness.

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Some things to think about as you plan it out. I ran the Brey Krause removable harness for about 4 years with the factory adjustable 996 seats. The 4 point was a huge improvement for keeping you planted in the seats. Yep, you can still use the seat belts on the street. Importantly, because the factory 996 seats are adjustable, it is very easy to fold them forward and get into the back seat to add or remove the BK Harness of you want to use the back seat. Takes about 30 min. However, if you put in a set of stiff backed Recarros, and if you use the BK Harness, it wont be easy to remove the BK Harness without removing a Recarro seat. No big deal, but something to be aware of. But the advantage to this set up is that the BK Harness with the Recarros will allow you to run a 5/6 point Harness to eliminate the risk of "submarining" as well as allows you to easily run a Hans device for even more safety. Yep, you will still be able to use the seat belts on the street. But you wont have the roll bar protection of a half cage. But its easy enough to add as you progress in run groups. Regarding the crotch strap, what you can do is run it just long enough that you can hang the buckle over the front of the seat under the removable velcro cushion. Lastly, check with your PCA regions on their requirements by run group as to what you gotta have for safety equipment. They are all different. As an example, in the Chicago Region to drive in the fastest run group, we gotta run a 5/6 point harness, half cage/roll bar, racing seats and Hans. No big deal. But if you have been bitten by the track bug, think through your near term steps, but also think about the future steps you will need to take so you dont waste your money. Oh yeah, one more thing. If you go to a 4 or 5/6 point harness, buy a used seat belt "male end" to put in the "female end" to eliminate the seat belt light and make sure your airbag is active. Same for the passenger seat.

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Thanks for the suggestions. I was going with the CS as its a moveable back. But it doesnt have a crotch strap hole. I also talked with another guy running in a 996, higher class, with these seats. Id like to have a cage, but I dont mind running with a harness bar for a while.

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Seats are expensive. If you really get the track bug, which is very easy to get, you will need the crotch strap. Just something to think about. No right or wrong answer.

Personally, I follow this: - no 4 pt due to risk of submarining causing torso internal injuries.. - 5 or 6 pt only with a roll bar. Prefer 6 pt though.

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My bad they are the GT

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4 it is better than 3. 6 is best. For sure, roll bar/cage w/ Hans. Safety is everything.

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Those don't have the asm feature, in case you weren't aware.

The schroth harness has asm built into the shoulder harness and is FIA certified.

That's good, very good. I wrongly assumed that FIA approved meant it having a rotating release, which then means no asm. But I see it has the red release push button, in which case the harness features asm. (We've just shown that on the internet one gets the right answer quickest by stating something wrong ).

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I assume ASM< means anti submarine belt. I've had 5 point harnesses that had a sub belt. 4 pt harness without a push button release are not street legal. In the past SCCA/NASA?, a sub 5pt belt setup can only be used on seats set up for that with the cutout for the sub belt... afaik. Can someone explain to me how a 4 point belt can possibly stop 'submarining' from under the lap belt in the right situation/accident. I just can't understand how a piece of fabric sewn into the shoulder harness can do this.

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You asked the right questions. Having run a 4pt with the BK Harness bar on oem seats w/ a male seat belt thingy plugged in to keep the air bag functional, and if I had the back if the seat properly upright, I was more secure than with a seat belt, with probably less risk in submarining because the 4 belts were tight as hell. The seat belt is loose as hell until you hit something. The submarining risk is a "comparison" risk while using racing seats. Whats a safer proposition for the driver while in racing seats? Running a 4pt harness without a crotch belt, or running a 6pt harness with a crotch belt. We'll the answer is clear, running a 6 pt harness which includes a crotch belt, which certainly would eliminate any risk of submarining. But to your question on how Schroth accomplishes this objective, i got no clue. As a side note, I have had GT3 seats and a 6 pt harness and Heigo half cage in my 996 for about 17 years. But I still use the seat belts on the street because the 6pt harness is not street legal. However, if I was ever in an accident on the street, I would prefer to have the 6pt harness on tight because its safer.

The inner belt of the two shoulder belts has some extra length that is sewn onto itself so that both are equal length during normal use. In case of a frontal collision the stitching rips, releasing the extra length. At that point the 4-point becomes basically a 3-point belt. The rotation of the upper body due to the inner shoulder not being held back, whilst the outer is, prevents submarining (irrespective of kind of seat). The ripping of the stitches dissipates a little bit of energy too, which helps but not in such a significant way as the prevention of submarining prevents injury. The upper torso rotation also helps in reducing neck injury. Running two fixed shoulder belts, i.e. without asm feature, carries the risk of severe neck injury that can/should be prevented by a HANS or similar device. No such risk with the car's 3P safety belt and front airbag...

FWIW I spoke with my friend and he did order the CS with a hole for the sub strap.

I haven't seen the cs available with the sub hole. I have seen the GT was starting to be offered. i just dont like the styling of the gt as much as the cs. I cpuld possible consider a different seat mfg, but I havent seen many other seats i like as much.

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The GT is the only RECARO Sportster that can be ordered with a Sub-Hole. Trenton O. Gibson [email removed] Highline Autos Direct: [phone removed] Office: [phone removed]

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When you say you run GT3 seats, do you mean buckets? I can�t imagine the comfort sport seats working with shoulder harnesses.

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Hey Marv. Yes GT3 buckets. But the regular OE 996 seats do work with the 4pt shoulder harness using the BK Harness. Can't speak for the sport seats.

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I�m pretty sure the shoulders are too wide to get the belts over them..

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Nah. The BK harness bar with a 4pt using 996 OE seats works. Used it for 4 years on the track before going to Gt3 seats and a 6pt. Its a fallacy that has perpetuated. But make no bones about it, you are better with a racing seats, half cage and 6 pt harness.

Well, after the debate and other thoughts. I ended up with Cobra Nogaro Circuit seats. One piece, sub hole, works with BK brackets. Still going with a harness bar for now. The schroth 4 point harness has a spot for a sub belt if I want to add it.

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Imho, its a smart decision to go with a sub hole to eventually run a 6 pt. Seats are expensive. While you can eventually sell them, the reality is that if you get the track bug, you can go to a half cage and add the center strap. The 4 pt harness with the BK Harness bar using the 996 OE seats was a good "step" for me as a Novice to provide more stability on the track, while being able to remove the BK Harness so the kids could use the back seat. 4 years later the kids outgrew the back seat, I found a set of GT3 seats, added a Heigo rear cage and 6 pt harness, and still enjoy the set up 15+ years later. 3 years ago I sold the rear seats and front seats realizing I will never put them back in. I am 60 years old and figure if I continue to stay in shape, I will be able to climb in and out of the car for another 20-25 years as I enjoy the car on the street and track. Then my son gets it.

I'm 66 and just getting back to this after about 22 years away. Im hoping for another 10-15 if I can stay healthy. You after some of the challenges I've had so far. Going to re-retire next July and really have a go at this.

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Awesome! Age is only a frame of mind. Plenty of guys in their 80s still doing it really fast on the Chicago Region. It will all come back pretty fast! Looking forward to hearing all about it!

Just thinking about this. Dont forget to get 2 sets of male seat belt inserts from ebay to make your airbag functional and eliminate the dashboard light when running the harness. See picture below. Since you are shopping for a Hans, it would also make sense to get the seat attachments for the crotch belt so you can run all 6pts. Makes sense for additional safety since you are already going down this path. Lastly, take a look at Heigo half cages as you look at the removal convenience of the BK Harness Bar. The reason is Heigo makes a half cage with removable interior parts. The outer roll bar structure stays in the car, but you can remove the Harness bar and cross bars if you want to open up the back for open storage. However its not safe to put people back there. Once the kids outgrew the seats, and the need for the BK Harness bar, I never needed to use the back except to toss things back there every so often. But it was nice to know i could remove the Heigo internals when i went to the cage. You can get the Heigo cages at FVD.