RMS and IMS installation question

It looks like I�ve got a small leak between the engine and the tranny, so looks like time to replace the RMS. And I�m thinking of doing something about the IMS at the same time. I don�t want to start a big, long discussion about what IMS solution is best, but I do have a few installation related questions, and I�d greatly appreciate some advice. First, am I correct in thinking that if I�m going to do both the RMS and the IMS, I can save a lot of time and money by doing them at the same time? Second, can any good mechanic (with proper tools) do both? (I doubt the local Porsche Center has much experience with these things, and everyone else probably has less. So unless I take a long trip with the car and leave it over night(s), the lead candidate to do this would be a good, well equipped BMW specialist.) Third, in addition to looking at normal style IMS fixes (e.g. LN, FVD � ), I�m thinking about the Vertex solution. If I go Vertex, would that change the answers to either of the first two questions? Thanks for any help understanding these things!

That's the ims I'm going to install.

1. The majority of the effort is removing the transmission - so, yes, doing them at the same time makes a lot of sense if you've decided you want to address the IMSB. 2. Yes (this is a matter of opinion though). In order to do both properly there are specialized tools for each. I don't know anything about the Vertex solution so I can't speak to that. I'm in the process of putting the IMS Solution (solid oil fed bearing) in my C4S as we speak. Cheers Charlie

IMO, any good mechanic with metric tools and the few specialized pieces in the IMSB installation tool kit can do this job no problem. Your BMW guy can do it. I DIY'd mine and, while sort of a PIA job to get to the IMS area, the actual IMSB install was straightforward.

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. Since posting, I saw mention in another thread thread that it makes sense to replace the chain tensioners when replacing the IMS. Since there is some sign that mine are no longer good as new, I suppose I would do that too. And the oil pump. It works fine, but I'm told it's the source of a noise that will worsen, and when it gets bad enough, I'll need to replace it. That is also in the same area, no? And one should not worry about leaving all this to a shop that is good, but has limited Porsche experience? (Hopefully I won't need to replace the chain guide paddles. So far, no suggestion that I do. I understand they are particularly tough to replace.)

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personally, I would not take such a risk A trusted/experienced/competent PORSCHE indy should be able to identify parts that will need to be replaced "WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE"

There are many potential complications with the RMS & IMS job for the over confident and ill prepared. Both jobs are procedural to quote JR - but you need to get the procedure down... Suggest you start by reading the 17 page Instructions by LN Engineering on installing the IMSB. The Vertex procedure is similar -or should be ! But if you car has a double row, why not just remove the outer seal and leave the bearing alone? Assuming it passes the "Pre-qualification Checks". If you want a roller bearing instead of a deep groove ball bearing , RND is a (better?)alternative to Vertex ? While you are in there...... clutch and DMF Even the RMS install is tricky unless you make a special tool from a pvc coupling. Lots of reading to do . Best find an Indie who has done many successfully. Ask here for recommendations in your area ? A screw-up could be very expensive.

Alas, there are no indies near me that I have confidence in. I suppose that I should increase/decrease my confidence if I find someone with/without an RMS tool. I seem to recall Porsche created such a tool. If so, I presume indies would be able to get one, no? Hopefully Google can provide some pictures ... Re. cylindrical bearings, my preference would be good bearings, whether cylindrical or ball. If cylindrical, then with some way to address thrust issues, which Vertex/EPS claims to have. My main reason for interest in Vertex/EPS is that they seem to claim it's easier to install, though obviously I don't know much about this.

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DMF?

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Dual mass flywheel

W/o a "while you are in there" list of potential jobs, you can't budget or prioritize .That is the beginning of a disappointment for you. Hopefully ,few of the additional items will be necessary. Be careful with the terminology because that will be another minefield."Cylindrical" bearings? I think you mean aftermarket Roller Bearings compared to the oem deep-groove ball bearing.Forget the word cylinder. Lots of reading to do......Chain tensioners, AOS ,etc BTW , you can find a simple dwg to make the RMS tool on RennTech. For the IMSB (assuming it is a single row?) just buy the Tool from RND and then resell here on RennList. You will 'loose' less than $100.Roller or ball bearing - the job is much the same level of difficulty.The problems usually come from not following the LN Instructions & Pre-Qualifications to the letter!

I'd like to revise my previous post. Any good mechanic SHOULD be able to do the job properly - but only if they care enough and are willing to take the time to research and do things properly. I am not sure the someone being paid a flat rate for the job is going to spend the hours necessary to understand the intricacies and nuances that they might run into. I opted to do it myself, even though it is taking me forever, because its my car and I care enough to spend endless hours researching to do things right. Otherwise, I'd definitely opt for someone that has experience with these engines and has done it before.

Charlie has the most important qualification for IMSB replacement imho - he reads well and follows Instructions. I am in that camp too :-).

my 2 cents You either take time and learn to do it yourself, you get to know your engine and your car way more. OR, get it done by someone who has experience with it. To be honest, there is more to it then just IMS/RMS. Chain guides, seals and the list goes on. You end up investing way more than just slapping a new bearing in place of the old one. Prequalif is the key

Again, thank everyone for the very helpful advice! Just discovered a new local specialist. They've only existed for 3 years and none had prior Porsche experience, but they're working on plenty of 986s and 996s now. They say they've done a lot of IMS replacements, and that they prefer to take both the tranny and the engine out. Does that make sense? Or does it just mean they don't have/know of the relevant tools? (Does one need the tools anyway, if one takes the engine out?)

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Only if it's worn out? Or always if the car has more than X thousand miles? Or ... ?

"they prefer to take both the tranny and the engine out. Does that make sense?" No, unless they need to dismantle the engine to repair collateral damage caused by IMSB failure. Transmission removal yes,of course, engine no. DMF - just test it. Easy to find the method.I have posted the Schaeffler/LUK video before An exprienceed Porche Indie knows this - easy stuff. AUTOINFORM ONLINE MAGAZINE: LUK DUAL MASS FLYWHEELS DMF DIAGNOSTIC ADVICE - YouTube LuK DMF testing tool - YouTube

My local Indie says he always drops the engine to do the IMS. It is just easier to do a good job. My personal comment would be it also provides great access to do the AOS while you are at it.

Agreed, but best to test the AOS before removing the engine - while it can still be run. Unless it is miles based PM ? Other things too - like vac lines, oil filler tube?

If your doing the ims Rms , it's basically a gearbox out job and probably not the full engine so don't worry about AOS and chain rails etc basically you are looking at replacing your Rms with the updated 997 seal which is modified and doesn't leak and replacing your ims , I have the vertex roller bearing kit in my car and I'm happy with it, I installed it myself as part of my engine build. You will need the ims bearing puller to remove your existing bearing , the new vertex bearing comes with the device to install the new bearing into your ims. I would put a new clutch and flywheel in also , the dual mass flywheel is known to chatter when it gets worn and the clutch disc is a while I'm in here job, all the work is in the same location so there shouldn't be much extra labour it will just be parts. Oh you will need to remove the oil pump cover to install the oil pressure feed device which is part of the vertex kit to feed oil through the shaft to the ims bearing. Hope it goes ok, you might find its the ims cover leaking and not the Rms , this can be a sign the bearing could be on the way out so its worth getting it done soon!!