PPI when buying from a Porsche Dealer?

Looking at purchasing a 2003 996 from a certified Porsche (new and used) Dealer. Car has <60,000 miles, and pics look like it's in good condition. Also, looks like there is a decent maintenance history on the car (reported on Carfax other than 2008-2012 where the car was driven 12,000 miles during that time). Carfax shows that the dealer did the following when they got the car Pre-delivery inspection completed Maintenance inspection completed Washed/detailed Oil and filter changed Body electrical system checked Safety inspection performed Emissions inspection performed Being that the seller is a Porsche dealer, can I just have them do the PPI? do I get a rival dealer or independent to do a PPI, or just get a copy of the inspection reports and take them at their word, (not get a PPI)?

If it was a dealer I was familiar with and trusted I'd talk to my service advisor and get their opinion. If it's not one that you know/trust, get a third party PPI. A simple test might be to call them and ask them what things need to be done to the car and what they'd recommend. Since they are a P-Car dealer they should know the 996 well and if they (trying to sell the car) tell you everything is in great shape and nothing needs to be done, get the second opinion (it is a 10 year old car, there are things that *should* be done). If they give you a list of things that should be on your radar (and they jive with reality), I'd say that's a good sign they are being honest.

A PPI is for your protection. Having the selling dealer perform the PPI is a conflict of interest in my opinion. I'm not trying to imply that the dealer will do anything wrong or underhanded, but I feel that it would be better to have a qualified independent mechanic do a PPI. A reputable dealer shouldn't object to this. You could also trust the dealer if you don't want to deal with the hassle of an independent PPI, but you do this at your own risk. Does the dealer provide any warranty or protection from unforeseen problems? The nice thing about a thorough PPI is that it allows you to identify issues and then negotiate the remedies into the final selling price. My C4S needed several significant repairs that were revealed in my PPI. I negotiated with the seller to make the necessary repairs.

Ask if you can get one done independently. If they say sure, get one. If they say no or even try to discourage you, run from the car.

It also boils down to the thoroughness(or the lack of ) of the PPI.

I think a good reputable dealer will do an excellent PPI - they have a huge reputation issue to protect. I would go ahead and ask their svc dept to do a PPI - ask them to have their shop foreman to do it. For what it's worth Porsche Danbury did my PPI and they were extremely thorough. The documentation was extremely detailed.

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I'm sorry, but I disagree I agree with Dennis C., there is a conflict of interest with the dealer doing a PPI on their own vehicle. Ask the dealer if you can have an independent PPI done at your expense and if they say no, then you decide whether or not to take their word that the vehicle is up to consumer standards. IMO, if your spending more then $10K on a vehicle, the best insurance is a good pre-purchase inspection.

I would never trust the seller to do an inspection on anything I purchase, be it a car, house, hooker...whatever. That goes double for the dealer in my neighborhood. Have an Independent inspection done. Best $$$ you can spend.

+1

The worst PPI I ever had done was at a Porsche dealer (only time I ever used a Porsche dealer for anything and against my better judgment BTW...). They had the car nearly a week and next to nothing was done. Seeing how poorly the whole thing played out they never even brought up the subject of payment. Free - but worthless.

Indy PPI without doubt. Since the newest 996's are now 10 years old, the best 996 mechanics live in the Indy shops. The Porsche dealer mechanics are focused on the newer models, or so I'm told by a dealer mechanic friend. And of course there's the issue of the fox guarding the chicken coop with the seller doing the PPI.

Car dealers are car dealers regardless of how high-end the vehicles are. Go Indy. TC

Although I purchased a CPO car and did not get a PPI, I would strongly recommend that you do so. There were several issues the dealer did not catch (and even did not acknowledge after I brought it to their attention). I came out of pocket to replace things that should have been done during the CPO process. I would have an independent do the PPI. Porsche North America was ZERO help. Rather disappointing.

My friend works in the auto industry at a very high level. He laughs at the accolades given to PPI. He says " no matter what standards are presented by the manufacturer, the inspection is only as good as the person doing it locally, which means the inspections are all over the map. It's not like Porsche is dispatching someone from corporate to look at your car". His company has the same thing and he sees the results. I took my dealer at their word and thankfully they exceeded every one of my expectations. IMO, it would be more important to negotiate how they would handle any problems you incur, that way you reduce or eliminate the X factor of who inspects it, you save the cost and if something is overlooked you have discussed the path forward with the selling dealer. If you can get whatever they offer you in writing then you are the king of rock and roll.

Do the PPI with a third party, if only to judge the dealer's reaction to the request. They should do it without hesitation, and probably offer to transport the car if the other shop is local. If they hesitate then you know it is time to start asking hard questions / transition from friendly to aggressive. Car dealers will be car dealers. Let us know what you did!

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I had a very similar experience. Get a PPI at an indy.

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Sure... However in my experience that discussion usually ends with them offering to sell you an extended warranty if you have concerns.

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When Joe Sales throws that pitch, you tell them there are other cars you are considering, then have the fortitude to walk right out the front door. If they won't negotiate with you one iota on a car that costs more than what some people live in, run away! My local dealer lost his shot at selling me a car because he's a dick....This is the internet age, I bought a car more than thousand miles away, you just have to be polite but firm. When car shopping, say what you mean, mean what you say but don't say it mean...

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Not my point... This discussion is not related to price negotiations, but to identifying potential maintenance and repair issues and how to discuss those potential issues with the selling dealership. In my experience, those questions usually lead directly to a sales pitch for an extended warranty. That is why you need a PPI. The issues are on paper from a third party and represent real current issues, not potential future issues. Of course these are now 10+ year old cars. At a certain point, you takes your chances...

So you get a PPI and then something breaks, now you're out the PPI cost and you don't have anymore leverage for repairs than you had without it. My dad drove every second hand car off his lot several days before selling them to work out every possible ailment and still some were not unearthed, PPI is a show, nothing more. To me it's as dumb as carfax, if a seller wraps a car around a pole and then pays cash to the body shop for repairs guess what? carfax = useless. There was only one time I saw the equivalent of a PPI work and that was when my dad found that the entire rear end of a car had been welded into place to effect a repair, obviously the guy bailed on buying it.

PPI is crucial when maintenance records are sketchy, which is often the case when you're buying from a non-Porsche car dealership like I did. Asking the dealer selling the car to do the PPI is tantamount to asking your girlfriend's mother for her unbiased opinion about her daughter...the information you actually want will not be provided.

I did that once, never again, Id much rather buy from a private owner than Jimmy's house of cars, where you get one key, no records and a BS story from a guy who usually knows diddly about Porsche cars. A guy I've been corresponding with on this site just got burned on a 987 from such a lot, he sent me a picture with nearly every bolt out of the right CV joint. Talk about dishonesty, you can't miss that doing an oil change!! I keep such a detailed log on the Spyder you would think I was it's physician!!

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Your opinion on this issue is directly at odds with advice provided over and over on this forum. A comprehensive pre-purchase inspection conducted by a third party shop with experience related to that specific brand is a critical step in the purchase of any used car, and in particular a used performance car. Period.

Relax, I'm not PPI blocking you guy. It seems to me there are enough fastidious and talented people on this forum to do their own. For example, I'd much rather search for body repair with my own lights and methods than any PPI mechanic but that's me.

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One of the advantages that I find with a good PPI is that you can use the results as a tool for price negotiations. It has worked for me in the past and even with the C4 that I now drive. The mechanic that did my PPI wrote it up itemizing those things that would need immediate attention and those things that could wait for 60 or 90 days. A good PPI is a most valuable tool

I can appreciate that approach and respect it as well. I spent more than an hour looking for evidence of body work on my 986, that's a good look at things. I was fortunate enough to buy the Spider new.

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+996 I view a PPI like a home inspection when buying a house. Even if you are a contractor and know what things to look for, it will come across to the seller as merely your "opinion" on anything you find. Now if those same findings come from a home inspector in writing, it tends to carry more weight and can often be used as a tool for further negotiations. Also like a home inspection, they can only do so much and not really tear into the drywall for example, to inspect any structural, electrical, and plumbing condition. Just like a typical PPI won't go into dropping the tranny and pulling the IM$ or being able to visually inspect the flywheel or clutch. These are the kind of things the buyer should set aside a contingency fund for.

I've been trying to arrange an indie PPI on a CPO'ed Porsche at a dealership, but they are telling me that they never deliver cars to indie shops or allow such shops take the cars offsite to perform the PPI. Is there any consistency in Porsche dealer policies on this? Or is this a car I should walk from?

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Not enough car buying experience to know if this is a standard policy but I suspect it is not. Did you ask the dealer why it is not allowing an indy PPI? As I pointed out in another thread there is some risk to the car the dealer may not want to well risk. The car can get bent or somehow damaged during the PPI. The dealer loses a sale as you'll walk away. It has to go to the expense of putting the car right and then the car has a story which can work to lower its market value. I bought only one used Porsche, an 03 Turbo. It was a CPO car. I checked the car out quite thoroughly after hours -- to avoid giving the dealer a clue how interested I was in the car -- and then after a test ride/drive I bought the car. I had the CPO paperwork and DME printout. The car was stated to be in pristine condition and my checking of the car found no disagreement with the CPO inspection. However, I'm quite comfortable with my ability to inspect a used car at least for myself so I never broached the idea of an indy PPI with the dealer regarding this car. You have to decide what you need to make the deal work for you. If you need an indy PPI and the dealer won't allow for it and you can't work out some suitable compromise -- perhaps offering to pay an hour's labor to have some tech run the car over to the indy shop and observe the process? -- then you should walk away from the car.

I think there may be a middle road in re. dealer pre-sales inspection vs. bona fide PPI by a third party. Locate a current/experienced 996 owner through the local PCA region, preferably an owner who is familar with the dealer service dept. personnel. Arrange (entice with an offer of dinner+drinks, if necessary) for the PCA member to accompany you to the dealer for another thorough inspection in which the dealer's tech points out any maintenance needs likely in the months to come. FWIW, my local P-car dealer is always willing to accomodate prospective customers with an "up on the lift" inspection by a service tech, and welcomes local PCA members to participate. The only rule is an appointment must be scheduled. I'm not suggesting such an approach is an adequate replacement for an in-depth PPI, I'm just suggesting an alternative if a third party PPI cannot be arranged. My local PCA region members are always available to assist, especially if the prospect expresses an interest in joining PCA. relinuca PCA Ohio Valley region

another option might be to see if Indy mechanic can go to dealership and view the car there... no reason why dealership wouldn't be accommodating for this, and putting it up on the rack for them.

Hey folks, Rennology Motor Sport in IL did the PPI. The car checked out. Then checked codes - nothing came up, nothing was recently cleared. Brakes are 7mm and wearing evenly, tires are 9/32 and wearing evenly. One issue: It only has one key. That's it. Everything else checked out fine. the oil was changed in Feb along with a maintenance inspection. As the car is at 28k miles, I have a while until the 40k service. So in the end, I would have been totally fine without one, but what I did purchase was peace of mind - which is worth it. Thanks for all your help. See pic. Also attached (because I don't know how to just paste the pic in here) https://goo.gl/photos/UY5J5Cgmc9k9qgp47

Congrats and all, but ummm... That's not a 996 and this thread was 3.5ish years dead...

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LOL. Pasted this into the wrong thread. I was looking at this thread for PPI ideas.

Phew - because I was worried about whoever performed the PPI on your 996.

That's a nice looking Ferrari, though, I can tell you that. Oh, and is this a pre-"punked" shot where your daughter is about to have a big black box full of something dump on her head when she walks out the door?

Really easy. Everything is negotiable. In the sales contract add a clause that says you will put up a down payment of x percent of the purchase price and you have x number of days to do a ppi and that during that time you have the absolute right to get out of the purchase. Just like as-is real estate contracts that have an inspection period where you can get out for any ir no reason.