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YOUR RESEARCHBuying a 996 with over 100K Miles?
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Check most of my boxes
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I was eventually able to find a car that checked most of my boxes.
Leading evidence: 'Check most of my boxes' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '"s", as they had in the 993, 997, etc' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check bores if the dealer will agree' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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However, the C4S posted faster Nurburgring lap times than the C2 when Porsche tested the cars.
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False, it's got "natural leather" the same stuff used for the 40AE cars, and oe heated sport seats to boot.
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I thought that's why it was the "S", as they had in the 993, 997, etc.
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You get the same chassis (minus intercooler vents), bumper and brakes as the turbo, and likely a higher spec interior, but same power as the base Carerra.
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You get the same chassis (minus intercooler vents), bumper and brakes as the turbo, and likely a higher spec interior, but same power as the base Carerra.
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Looking for thoughts on buying a 996 with over 100K miles? As I'm new to the Porsche world, does over 100K start to become an issue for even a well maintained car?
The car i'm looking at is 2004 C4S with just under 104K miles. VIN#
WP0AA29994S620967
I would definitely be getting a independent PPI.
vinanalytics says this was $140k car brand new, that's the highest 996 c4s i've ever seen, if accurate. what are they asking for it? get a thorough PPI done, repair costs can quickly make your purchase price irrelevant.
I'd definitely put more weight on the condition and how well its maintained over mileage. A car with lower miles could be about ready to need a new clutch, and much more. Condition is paramount, because as others have mentioned, just a few repairs can end up costing thousands. Little things add up quick too, like switches that don't work, etc.
One look at the interior can tell that this was not a very high option car. Can't imagine a $140K sticker for that one even with the carbon bits.
OP,
I would be far more concerned with this car if it had 5k miles on it.
To answer your question, if you don't plan to daily drive, can wrench on it yourself and get a favorable PPI before hand -- I say, go for it. Or if you (or if you know someone) that would be willing to go check the car out in person AND there is sufficient maintenance history to show it's been well looked after, it might be worth making an offer.
Interesting one here given it's higher mileage and looks a bit shaggy around the edges (the LED tail lights need to go for sure)... but a SUPER nice spec car... you would have a hard time finding one that's better optioned from the factory. I mean it's listed at $24k -- at $20-22k it might be worth a bit of a risk.
Why not daily one with high miles? Maint Cost? Just bout a C2 with 135K, Was CPO at 35K and local owner put the last 100K on it, and have all service records for that time. It's mechanically solid, 7 cosmetically but it's straight, just lots of chips and wear.
Bought a a weekender, but it's so fun to drive wondering if I should give up my bulletproof LS430 as my daily. I just bought the LS because of the miles to work, about 60 miles/day. Driveway space is tight.
There seem to be a fair number of high mileage DDs on here. I'm at 126k and mostly daily it the past 2 1/2 years. All the UOAs over the past 30k miles look good. Like everyone else says, do a thorough PPI, including dropping the pan to check the bores if the dealer will agree to it. It won't be as trouble free as your Lexus, but if you are mechanically inclined they aren't too bad.
I�m not saying it�s not possible, but DD�ing a 15yr old 911 with over 100k on the clock could get expensive. I bought a c4s with 95k on the clock and have installed $10k in parts alone (no labor) in the first 1.5k year. Was all that mandatory (due to failed parts)? No, not all of it anyway. But as time and mileage increases, so does needed maintenance. Big difference between DD�ing a car with 35k on it and one with over 100k miles.
The $140K original list price had me curious too. And the car listing says it has all the 40th anniversary badges and lightweight 18� turbo wheels.... But it�s slate grey metallic and not GT Silver metallic as I�ve read the 40th anniversary cars were. It�s a curious one, I�m checking with a local shop about a PPI now and hopefully can negotiate the price down a little because there�s no documentation of the IMS being done. I won�t be daily driving this (or whatever I buy) but I�ll be driving it regularly.
Never give up the LS430! That's one worth driving into the ground. Great car!
I never owned a LS430 but I had two LS400s ('94 & '96). Loved them! Both my LS400s were sold to friends who are still driving them today.
I'd suggest somehow...somehow finding a way to have both...if you have to have another Porsche.
Mike
They take the miles well. At 20 years old, mileage becomes trivial compared to the service history. Bought mine with 103k and it drives well, still solid and tight. Test drove one before it with 61k and it felt like the bottom was about to fall out. With that said, there's nothing like a crisp low mileage car. If I was buying a 996 again, I'd find a car with 30k or less and pay the small premium.
The 40AE cars are narrow body C2�s, this is not a 40AE car. But some intelligent guy made his own 40AE ish c4s by ordering a build that was similar. I could be way off here, but guessing this is a pretty cool car. A bit shaggy, but some sweat equity could go a long way.
As mentioned above, that car has some nice factory options. It also has some hideous aftermarket additions, like those LED tail lights. Woof.
My 2002 996 C4S was a daily driver for many years. Ultimately, it simply became too expensive to to keep using it that way. Things like water pumps, clutches, rebuilt front differentials, worn strut mount bearings, cracked coil packs, etc. can really add up quickly. It’s just didn’t make sense for me anymore, so I traded it in for a lower mileage 997. I’m not saying that everyone will have this experience, but things wear out. It’s hard to predict reliability on a 15 year-old car with 100K miles on the odometer, regardless of the brand.
I recently paid a premium for my 03 c4s with under 22k miles and don�t regret it. Have put almost 7k miles on it in under 5 months as a non-DD and have no intention of slowing down. Plan on rigid oil change schedule and monitoring UOA.
These machines need to run, they want to run! I truly believe a 996 driven daily, if well maintained, will be more reliable over the long haul than garage queens.
I suggest you drive several versions before you buy anything. I had a wide purchase budget and considered 997s and some early 991s before driving and then buying my 996. �The car chooses the driver�.
Any idea how much it would be to source some original taillights to replace those. I agree, they kill the look and the back end of the C4S is the best part.
Right now I�m trying to get over the sickness. You know what that is right? Wanting to just pull the trigger on something rather than wait for the right one to come along. God give me strength. Haha
Don't forget in buying something with that many miles, budget for suspension rebuild/replacement.
I bought mine with 102k for a steal, but as others have mentioned, I have put a lot into it so far to bring it back to snuff. It was a really well taken care of car, with the clutch, RMS, IMS and a bunch of little (but expensive) things taken care of like sunroof fixed, windshield replaced, etc.
I put in new thrust arms in the front and that made a world of a difference in terms of stability and "tightness". I am now budgeting to replace most all of the linkages and struts with new stuff. Probably looking at around $2-3k for meyle stuff and some Koni's. But that will then bring the car back to "like new". Everything in the interior has aged really well and not showing issues.
So.... high mileage I think worth it if the deal is there. Would I buy a high mileage pretty base spec C2 manual? Of course, those you can always sell later and get what you put into it probably.
High mileage specialty models like the turbo or the C4S? Ehhh.... unless you got a screaming deal on one I'd probably be willing to pay the premium for a lower mileage one at this point honestly. They'll hold/appreciate more in value, and generally can probably get a little more out of it without having to do a lot of work.
I imagine you could find a good set of used tail lights from someone who swapped them for LEDs. The rear of the 996 C4S with the OE tail lights is gorgeous!
I hear you on the sickness. Be patient. The right one will come. I looked for 6 months to find my C4S because I wanted a very specific combination of options. I was eventually able to find a car that checked most of my boxes.
I don't think $23,9xx is too bad for this car. If you could get out the door for $22k you'd be doing better. Anything 100k+ miles just gives people the *******, understandably so, which is why I know I personally will have an issue moving mine in a few years, even with solid maintenance records...
My 03 C4S has 91,1xx miles on it and is my DD. Had almost 2 years now and have spent some $ getting it into good shape, and a recent respray, but that's why I plan to keep it for a while to get money's worth from it.
However, for not a lot more, you can get a 997.1 C2 with a good many fewer miles and the interior upgrade alone is worth the cost IMO. I bought mine as an experiment to see if it was useful as a DD and dependable enough to use as such, and now that it is, I feel much better buying what I want exactly next time. If I'd known how much I'd like a 911, I'd have bought a 997.2 C2 the first time honestly.
New vs. old must be relative. I DD'd my 30 year old 928 for 8 years until I decided I wanted something a bit newer and more modern. I got my "new" 996 which is now a mere 20 years old and has been DD'd for the past 2 1/2 years. It does help to have a spare car because there have been a couple times it was down for a few days waiting on parts, but overall, if its a well sorted car I've had no real issues (knock on wood).
There is a good chunk of "engine out" service the M96/M97s seem to need right around 100k mile. Things like AOS, variocam solenoids, cam chain pads, etc. Mine had all that done along with shocks, shock mounts, and control arm bushings and other stuff (around $10K worth of work) by the PO at 94k along with the clutch and IMS bearing which is probably why mine has been pretty trouble free for the past 30k mile. With that in mind, budget for that stuff if it has not been done or there is no record of it.
We ALL have "the sickness" for 911s. haha. The rear light enclosures for the C4S can be found regularly on eBay. The lines you notice on the taillights in the pictures are not cracks but normal. That's a great deal btw.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911...YAAOSwwkNcU3Vp
brand new...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Porsche....c100009.m1982
I bought my ex wife an LS. She put 90k mi on it and traded it for her hubby�s F150.
Beautiful, drive it forever cars. Keep it and drive it around to shop for your next 911.
I would do as suggested. A serious ppi and drive the heck out of it.
TC
If PPI is good I would factor in $5k for immediate repairs. Have an Indy drop the engine and do a bunch of stuff all at once:
- IMS (At 100k the aftermarket one might need to be replaced)
- RMS
- Variocam wear pads (Not sure if applicable to your model)
- Waterpump
- Coolant tank
- Test injectors, replace if needed
- Most likely coils and plugs
- AOS
- Clutch if needed
And at some point you want to spend at a minimum of $1000k on suspension/brake components/mounts. Makes the car much nicer to drive!
While the transmission is out you could have the shop send out the transmission to GBox for a refresher, but that is not needed and will cost you $2400. There is a bearing that typically gets worn around 100k mark.
If have done things in steps on my car and it's just a waste of time.
Have fun!
Low mile premium on a C2 isn't very much. Personally I don't get the big price premium for the C4S. Grab a low mile C2 for the same price as the 100k C4S.
Here's a somewhat relevant comparison. I bought my 1999 C4 a year ago for $13k, with 142k miles. Sparse records. It's clearly been driven plenty, but other than quite a few stone chips on the front surfaces, it's not ratty at all inside or out. Carfax showing Bay Area and VA homes in the past. No indication of IMS, RMS, clutch replacement. I've been driving it daily to assess the situation and study. It definitely needs the suspension renewed, but the shocks aren't leaking. AOS is on it's way out. I've replaced the window regulators, voltage regulator, starter/alternator Y-cable, oil fill tube, e-throttle body, coil packs and plugs as I have identified each as an issue. All were present when I bought the car, it just took me some time to identify root cause from symptoms I was observing. The pinion in the transmission is making noise, I live right down the road from Gbox so that's on the docket for the winter. I'll likely drop the engine and transmission together at that time and replace the Variocam pads, AOS, coolant tank, clutch, RMS, IMS, throwout bearing. I'll probably take a look and discover a few more things while I have access.
I don't have regrets about buying a mystery car, since it was pretty inexpensive at the start and I somewhat knew what I was getting into. I'm not rich, but I have a second car and can do most of what needs to be done myself, both of which mitigate risk. It's a hobby for me, not at all meant to be an investment of any sort. Just fun without much worry or stress.
For me I just love the wide body look and the heckeblend reflector. Those hips are what I looked at for hours at posters on my wall when I was a kid! So, if I�m going to get a 911 that�s the look I love. But also, I live in Chicago and while I won�t daily this, AWD will be helpful Nov-April. So for me, it�s worth paying a little more.
Get what you want, don�t make sacrifices there or you�ll regret it. Parking my c4s next to my buddy�s c2, I have zero regrets about my decision. That may come off as arrogant, but it should because that same buddy has cars I can only dream about owning (including a 992 that�s half way through the factory build and will be here in Oct). Just sayin I think the C4s is well worth the premium; not just for the rear end, but the interior, brakes and suspension as well.
My 99 C2 has been my DD for the past 5 years and just turned 97k miles. Much better build quality than my 2012 GMC which is 13 years newer. If you do routine maintenance, there is no reason to worry.
My 02 C4 Cab had 108K on it when I bought it and it was basically a 1 owner car. I leaned toward a high mileage car based on it supposedly being better IMSB wise if the car was driven regularly and maintained well. One issue to consider all of the little items that wear out after 100K miles...I've done CV joints, 2 window regulators, brakes, clutch, IMS, AOS, coils and plugs, ignition switch, hand brake sensor, etc. need to do control arms as well. Not complaining at all, knew going in I would have regular maintenance ahead....just something to consider. Best of luck!
It's the look/presence. I like the narrow-body 996 cars, but side-by-side, it's a huge difference. Plus extra bump in HP for being an S, Turbo brakes, front bumper, etc. I would love a C2 Aero though. If they made a 996 C2S Aero, that's what I'd have.
But, look at the 993 and the prices they command. THEN look at the interior lol... We 996 people aren't nearly as crazy as we seem, compared to that lot! The 964 I can understand at least aesthetically. 993, never have, doubt I ever will. I like them less each time I see them in person (sans the ultra badass GT2 or something).
Very cool. Not far from my experience. My car is two years younger, has fewer miles and cost me slightly less. There were enough records to give me confidence in the car and I believed the seller to be honest and trustworthy. I guess where mine falls down is that it's a cab.
Plan to drop the engine over the winter. Will replace RMS, AOS, cam pads and coolant tank. Need to assess my thoughts on the LNE retrofit that has been installed. It is close to the recommended replacement interval. There is a thread covering my adventures...
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-tune-up.html
Great car, sans the accident reported but doesn't look like it was too bad. Someone will get a beautiful C4S in the best color (and matching interior trim!!) for sweet $. Nice.
Thanks Scott, yes I've been following your thread closely as you and I seem to share the same approach/philosophy on a lot of topics. Thanks for taking the time to document and share your findings- valuable to all of us! I agree with the color choice too...
To restate, I don't think someone should be scared off from a high mileage 996, providing they 1) have an alternate vehicle (nice to have in general, regardless whether the "fun" car is a 996 or not) and 2) are at least mildly interested and capable of doing their own work. I have been quite surprised that the 996 is actually pretty easy to work on for the basic stuff.
All I own is fun transportation, lol, I just have more than one and exercise and wrench in rotation😁
Kevin, would you buy that car already?? Or that fly yellow on BAY if you're budget is stretchable to $32k😁
I don't think the 996 C4S has any more horsepower. Pretty sure it is the same m96 as in the 2wd Carerra.
I think of it as basically what used to be called a turbo look. You get the same chassis (minus intercooler vents), bumper and brakes as the turbo, and likely a higher spec interior, but same power as the base Carerra.
^^This^^ and it's a little slower... It's only 2.5" wider overall (1.25" per side) so if you think it's a "huge" difference, I would beg to differ... All this being said, you gotta have what you gotta have! If that's what you like & want, then whatever it costs is what it costs - and it's "worth it" ! Happiness is such a fleeting thing... Get what makes you happy!
It�s not the �S� that makes it feel different when driven, it�s the �4�. As for the width and look.....the worse thing about driving a 996 c4s is that you don't get to see the rear end, everyone else does!!
Get the car you want, drive it how you want, modify it how you want..... the smiles are worth every $
A regular C4 has the same drivetrain as C4S. Starting from 993s with the redesign of rear suspension, swapping ends usually mean you are driving like a crazy guy on the street; even more so in 996s with the introduction of electronic nannies.
The C4S is slightly slower than the C2 in straight line acceleration due to the additional weight. However, the C4S posted faster Nurburgring lap times than the C2 when Porsche tested the cars. I don�t recall the difference, but it was something like 4 seconds.
Really? I thought that's why it was the "S", as they had in the 993, 997, etc. Interesting, but I believe you. I do recall the "Turbo look" being it's party piece, like the infamous "Porsche models" bit on old Top Gear when Clarkson reviewed the 996 C4S, those of you who remember it lol.
Yes, that is correct, the c4s had the same motor/output as a standard c2 mkII. The c4s nets you the turbo front and rear bumpers, the red reflector, full leather (standard), awd, turbo brakes and turbo suspension. The 0-60 time is about .2 slower than the c2 (drag of the awd drivetrain), but faster around a track (I think it was a full 2-3 seconds around the N�rburgring). And yes the wider hips aren�t wildly different in measurement compared to the c2, but sitting next to each other, you�d swear the c4s is a foot wider. Didn�t realize it until I had mine parked next to my buddies c2... the c4s rear looks waaay gooder!
i think the full red light on the back of the c4s creates an optical illusion which makes it appear much wider then it really is. it is the best looking version without doubt!
A 2 to 4 second difference in lap times at the ring is within the statistical noise with varying air temperature, track temperature, etc. I can see where lap times would be similar, despite the C4S being a few hundred pounds heavier than a C2. The C4S came with wider wheels that hold wider tires. You should be able to dive into the curves at a higher speed. I'm not sure how much of an advantage 4wd would be when accelerating out of the curves, since it is somewhat of an old school 4wd system.
Almost no one drives their 996 anywhere near 100%, so having a C2, C4s, 3.4, 3.6, manual, or tip, doesn't really matter from a performance standpoint. Driving through town at 2500 rpm, the performance is essentially the same.
I'd recommend getting exactly what you like. A lot of 996 fans really like the look of the C4S.
I don�t have any plans to go over to the nurburgring or any other track to be honest so I�m ok giving up speed to the C2. For me it�s looks and AWD and for that stuff it�s to each their own. There is no wrong answer with a (running) 911 at the end of the day.
This was repeated testing by Porsche same days, same conditions. Your not factoring in the better brakes, better suspension and higher entrance/exit speeds attainable with awd. All that more than negates the added weight. Porsche doesn�t typically charge more for less (at least when it comes to performance). But yes, it�s splitting hairs and nothing you would notice on the street.
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