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Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

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YOUR RESEARCHAdvice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Leading reported evidence

Replace by the shop

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed

no signs of "bits" in the oil filter.........last time oil was changed by the shop.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?
Frequently discussed work

Inspect filter every 3-6 months, and see what yer get

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Suggestion

Personally I would monitor by changing the oil and inspecting the filter every 3-6 months, and see what yer get

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?
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Leading evidence: 'Replace by the shop' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Inspect filter every 3-6 months, and see what yer get' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.

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Compare 4 other evidence results

Replace chain tensioners

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

- Chain tensioners were replaced and have about 10K miles on them (did RMS/IMS/clutch/flywheel at the same time)

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace water pump about 5k miles ago

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

- Replaced water pump about 5K miles ago

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Use just a very thin layer

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed

I used just a very thin layer when I reinstalled and have no leaks.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Use too much sealant

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed

You can also see that they used too much sealant when they reinstalled the sump pan.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?
Frequently discussed actions (10)

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Inspect filter every 3-6 months, and see what yer get

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Suggestion

Personally I would monitor by changing the oil and inspecting the filter every 3-6 months, and see what yer get

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Recommend driven racing dt-40

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Suggestion

They recommend Driven Racing DT-40.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace accessable chain guides

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Suggestion

I plan on monitoring until I have the time to drop the engine and replace the accessable chain guides.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace by the shop

No successful repair reported for this finding.

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed

no signs of "bits" in the oil filter.........last time oil was changed by the shop.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace chain guides, and do some other maintenance things

No successful repair reported for this finding.

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Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion

I like the car a lot and resale value is squat so I will refresh the engine perhaps in 2019, including splitting the case and replacing ALL the chain guides, and do some other maintenance things.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace chain tensioners

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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

- Chain tensioners were replaced and have about 10K miles on them (did RMS/IMS/clutch/flywheel at the same time)

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace couple of months

No successful repair reported for this finding.

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Suggestion · Original poster

I've made up my mind to do an oil change a couple of months after season starts, regardless of mileage.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace done

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Suggestion · Original poster

I had an oil change done on my '05 C4S before putting it in storage this year, and the shop found a few (2-3) tiny specs of black plastic in the filter.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace every 5000 miles or 6 months

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Suggestion

I was told by Flat6 Innovations to do oil changes every 5000 miles or 6 months which ever comes first.

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?

Replace every six months or 5k , hope

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Suggestion

Going back to the variocam paddles, I wouldn't let a shop have your pants down for like $7k as this involves just the removal of the valve covers , disconnecting the timing chain and taking out the cams , strip down of the cam assembly to replace the pads then build back up , it a relatively small job really , maybe access would involve dropping the engine which would make it a whole lot easier but I would just monitor for now, regular oil changes every six months or 5k , hope that helps and saves you worrying about it!

Advice sought - sledgehammer to kill a fly?
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Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.

24 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.

  • Rennlist: 1 discussions

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POST 1 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

I had an oil change done on my '05 C4S before putting it in storage this year, and the shop found a few (2-3) tiny specs of black plastic in the filter. They brought me in back to show me, which I appreciated. I don't have pictures unfortunately, but the couple of bits I saw were very small, about the size of a pin head. Obviously this isn't good news. The shop said I should consider opening up the engine and finding out which part(s) are the culprit. Their educated guess is that it could be variocam "paddles" wearing out, but they admitted that they won't know until they properly investigate, which sounds reasonable. I am looking at $5K (CAD) or more, I am guessing closer to $7-8K. My question is: based on people's experiences and knowing that it isn't uncommon to find small bits (very small) in the oil filter, how urgently should I look into this? The car runs great, pulls strong, no weird noises, etc. If I go ahead I will need to book the work in early spring before they get very busy. I want to do what is right but at the same time am wondering if open heart surgery might be overkill at this stage based on what was found. Thoughts from the community would be greatly appreciated. Happy Holidays all

POST 2Original post

How many miles on your car? How frequent are your oil changes? What type of oil and what weight? For what its worth, I would monitor the situation over several oil changes and pull oil samples for analysis.

POST 3Original post

They are correct in saying that it probably is the variocam paddles or could be the main chain tensioner rails, not a massive problem really until you start getting CEL codes for camshaft deviation , this is when the wear on the paddles effects the camshaft timing by a certain amount 6 degrees I think , but I wouldn't do throwing thousands of dollars for that !! You could also keep an ear out for start up rattle as this could be a sign that your timing chain tensioners need replacing, this can cause the paddle to vibrate on the chain until the oil pressure takes up the slack of the tensioner again. Going back to the variocam paddles, I wouldn't let a shop have your pants down for like $7k as this involves just the removal of the valve covers , disconnecting the timing chain and taking out the cams , strip down of the cam assembly to replace the pads then build back up , it a relatively small job really , maybe access would involve dropping the engine which would make it a whole lot easier but I would just monitor for now, regular oil changes every six months or 5k , hope that helps and saves you worrying about it!

POST 4Original post

You could buy a Durametric for $300 and monitor the camshaft deviation.

POST 5 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Thanks for the replies so far. Some additional info: - The car has 85K km (about 52K miles) - I drive about 5-6K miles / year - Chain tensioners were replaced and have about 10K miles on them (did RMS/IMS/clutch/flywheel at the same time) - Replaced water pump about 5K miles ago - I change the oil once a year, before winter storage - Oil used is Elf Excellium 0W40 - No CELs, but have had occasional, momentary "0" oil pressure readings (happened 2 or 3 times in 2 1/2 years) - Recently purchased OBD II scanner, but I understand it has far fewer features than Durametric. I haven't connected it to the car yet. - No startup rattle

POST 6Original post

I was told by Flat6 Innovations to do oil changes every 5000 miles or 6 months which ever comes first. They recommend Driven Racing DT-40. Since there's a great deal of thought that old "worn out" oil has negative affects on the IMSB, I think it's cheap insurance. Also if you are having your oil tested, you get a quicker heads-up if something changes.

POST 7 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Given that I don't drive the car for about 6 months a year (winter) and low mileage driven, my mechanic suggested that 1 oil change every year is appropriate. I've followed his advice since purchasing the car. That said, I like the idea of changing the oil more often as an early warning system. I like to have them do it in the fall so they can also do a quick pre-storage inspection, but I'd have no problem doing the additional oil change myself. I am not usually a "oh well, we'll see what happens" kind of guy, but in this case I also feel the shop's recommendation might be overkill. Based on what has been said so far, I understand that any related issue would develop gradually as opposed to a catastrophic failure, so it should be possible to identify signs of an impending problem through monitoring. I appreciate the input.

POST 8Original post

Quotes source post: 15516414

OK, then my only recommendation is to move somewhere warmer

POST 10Original post

Quotes source post: 15514520

Vario-Cam pads are white plastic (that turns brown from the hot oil). The black plastic is from the main chain guides...

POST 11Original post

/\/\ As I understand it, too. Also. At next oil change have the shop remove the oil sump cover and look more closely for bits......... I've a 2000 C4 with 150k miles on it. no signs of "bits" in the oil filter.........last time oil was changed by the shop. I like the car a lot and resale value is squat so I will refresh the engine perhaps in 2019, including splitting the case and replacing ALL the chain guides, and do some other maintenance things. I think I have a wheel bearing starting to go. If the shop agrees, I will do all 4 of those too. Car is worth way more to me than I can get for it and I like it too much to drive it into the ground.

POST 12Original post

Dporto The ones I used on my rebuild were light brown on the vario pads like a caramel colour and the ones on the main chains are a dark brown colour , have you seen white ones??

POST 13 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Quotes source post: 15520944

Good idea, I will do that.

POST 14 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Quotes source post: 15521218

The bits could have been brown vs. black. They were so small it was hard to tell. Definitely not white. Perhaps Porsche used different color parts over the years? Mine is a 2005, so one of the very last. I know the last ones were built alongside 997s... maybe that had an influence on some the parts used... pure speculation on my part though.

POST 15Original post

Could be main chain tensioner pads or ims pad, listen for rattle at startup , you might have a hydraulic chain tensioner on the way out causing the pad to vibrate on the chain till in fills up again possibly causing extra wear to the pads ok

POST 16Original post

The "white" plastic bits will look brownish over time but not "black" and the "brown" will just look more "brown". The "black" bits ill always look "black". If you really saw black then it was little bits off the main chain guide... Remove the sump next time and inspect everything well!

POST 17Original post

Quotes source post: 15536894

^^This^^... the �white� really isn�t white white - more ivory colored, but it doesn�t take them long to change to brown...

POST 18Original post

I found a few very small plastic pieces in my oil filter in the past. I installed a 2 quart deep sump kit several months ago and found a few larger pieces in the sump. My car has 92k miles and has been tracked a lot.

POST 19Original post

I can't get pics to upload. I hit the upload button, but nothing happens.

POST 20Original post

Personally I would monitor by changing the oil and inspecting the filter every 3-6 months, and see what yer get

POST 21 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Quotes source post: 15537163

Did you have any engine work done and find out what the bits were from? Or have you been driving the car and only monitoring? I've made up my mind to do an oil change a couple of months after season starts, regardless of mileage. Close monitoring now seems more sensible to me than an engine out job.

POST 22Original post

The upload worked today. All of those bits were plastic. My sump had been removed early in its life to install an X51 baffle, which probably contributed to the engines longevity. I plan on monitoring until I have the time to drop the engine and replace the accessable chain guides. I did buy a Durametric Pro, but I haven't used it to measure deviation yet. The engine out is not just for the guides. I don't think the engine has ever been removed from the car. There are multiple parts that need to be replaced or upgraded. AOS, water pump, thermostat, oil pump shaft, plastic vacuum tubes, etc.

POST 23 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Quotes source post: 15538805

Thanks for posting the pic. Hard to tell the true scale here; the bits do look quite a lot larger than what was in my oil filter. I'm scared to look in the sump now... LOL

POST 24Original post

Quotes source post: 15538911

The bits were definitely bigger than what I saw in the filter. They were shaped like little flakes, which makes sense. They were shaved off the guides at some point. You can also see that they used too much sealant when they reinstalled the sump pan. There were two small beads of sealant on my oil pickup tube screen. Fortunately not enough to affect oil flow. I used just a very thin layer when I reinstalled and have no leaks.

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