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YOUR RESEARCHSomeone Talk Me Down From the Edge!
Leading reported evidence
Replace clutch at ~95k miles
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I ran the original factory IMS bearing until I changed my clutch at ~95K miles.
Leading evidence: 'Replace clutch at ~95k miles' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check next day' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Your IMS has already been replaced so that's a plus.
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The original bearing showed no signs of failure when it was removed and replaced with a ceramic bearing from LN Engineering.
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I ran the original factory IMS bearing until I changed my clutch at ~95K miles.
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Suggestion
As I always say, if it does blow and it is beyond my means to rebuild, I had the opportunity to check off a dream car on my bucket list and then have the coolest lawn art in my neighborhood sitting in my front, landscaped yard.
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I've wanted a 911 since I was a wee little lad. I'm 53 now, kids are gone, and have some spare cash. I've put a deposit down on a really nice looking 2002 996 with 81,000km (50,500 miles) and am hopefully going to finalize the deal later this week. As everything internet, the more you read, the more scared you get! I can afford the car. I can afford to do things like an IMS service. (Which has already been done). I can afford to do basic maintenance, buy new tires, etc. What I can't afford is to have an engine blow and have to replace it. I know this isn't a 1995 Chevy, and Porsche costs of ownership are higher than your run of the mill Toyota or Ford. So just looking for some confirmation from other 996 owners and drivers out there that bought a 996 and don't regret it!!!
Can�t talk ya down. Do your research and jump. I�m on my second 996 and love this one very much. My first got wrecked. These cars are older, so go see it and come armed with the knowledge you can find on this site, 911uk, Renntech. Give it the hairy eyeball, drive it and listen to the car. Maintenance records are of great importance to reduce your initial risk. Make sure you love it. Every time I get in my car I smile. These cars are DIY friendly. Many places sell parts for way, way less than you�d expect. If you�re in the Vancouver area, other RL�ers report some good Porsche shops.
Other than overblown issues, these cars are very reliable. yes Porsche parts are more, but maintenance items are just a little higher. plenty of aftermarket support for it also.
Good luck, you won't be sorry. A 911 can be a lifetime keeper.
Good service history and a complete PPI from an indy that knows these cars will reduce your level of risk. If a motor goes there are affordable options out there...I bought a roller (02) with a blown motor (timing chain) and then purchased a used low mile motor from a part out, so far so good. I pinch myself every time I get into it. Did all the work myself with the help of RL.
Go get you one!
If it makes you feel any better I have two kids, one 15 months and I just bought a 911. Mine also has just over 50k miles and I had a PPI done and even though it came back with some issues we negotiated that into the price. It also gave me peace of mind even knowing it has some issues that once those are done the major issues will be taken care of. The shop that did my PPI recommended replacing the air-oil separator and rear main seal due to leaks. Going to have those along with the IMS and clutch done in the spring and enjoy the car. I go through cars quickly but I hope to have this one for some time. I got one real day since owning it to drive it and it was phenomenal. I had a track prepped e36 M3 not that long ago and the 911 reminds me a lot of that.
My first 911 was a 996 C4S, and I was the third owner. It had good maintenance records, and the pre-purchase inspection revealed a few issues that were fixed by the seller. I drove that car every day as my primary mode of transportation for six years, in all weather conditions. It was a great car, and I thoroughly enjoyed it until I sold it with ~140K miles on the odometer. I ran the original factory IMS bearing until I changed my clutch at ~95K miles. The original bearing showed no signs of failure when it was removed and replaced with a ceramic bearing from LN Engineering.
As as mentioned above, the 996 is a great introduction to the world of 911s. It’s relatively DIY friendly, and it’s fun to drive. Keep up with the maintenance, and it should be very reliable. It’s a good idea to keep some cash in reserve for the occasional expensive repair, as they do come up from time to time. I think this is especially true for a daily driver.
Good luck, and post some photos when you get the car!
+1 to all the above replies. Your IMS has already been replaced so that's a plus. Get a PPI and decide from there if you want to go ahead with the purchase. My $0.02 is, yes these are older cars and may need some maintenance from time to time, but since they are older, there aren't a myriad of electronic gizmos that can fail and give you headaches trying to chase down. A 996 is pretty basic (expensive motor aside) and a total driver's car. If the PPI checks out, I'd say go for it. You won't regret it!
Anecdotal personal experience: once you have the car and start driving it, you're going to have so much damn fun you'll forget about internet hysteria. I can pretty much promise you that you're always going to be fiddling with something, but the
entire
engine shouldn't be one of those things. Maybe a few odds and ends from the engine... but not the whole thing
Enjoy your new car, friend. And as is customary - Welcome to the madness.
You can�t afford to have the engine blow and replace it, but maybe you can. After all, costs vary with respect to how much you expect. If you �invest� $30k on a Raby build, your car will be worth more. If you drop 6-$8k on just a used engine swap, you�re only out $6-$8k.
Wolpertinger,
The 996 is an amazing vehicle! Unless you can double your budget (in which case the 996 turbo should
still
be a consideration) you�d be hard-pressed to find more Porsche for the money. Given that the IMS has been addressed, other costs of ownership would be comparable to any sports/luxury car. Don�t let be deterred, realize your dream!
Cheers,
Brenton
If it helps, we’re in similar situations though I’m a few years further along on the Porsche journey. Same-ish age, and ability to own & do minor repairs. In a nutshell, I say DO IT!
Here’s my story: Looked at a beautifully kept C4 Cab (polar silver/metropol blue) that was super clean and everything works. It had some service history including IMS bearing with upgraded LNE version, clutch, flywheel, front differential, and routine maintenance. 103K on the clock - a bit high maybe, but from what I’ve read these cars like to be driven and both from a reliability and a $ standpoint I was more interested in a higher mileage car than one with super low mileage. PPI checked out. I negotiated a really fair price on the car and got a winter set of wheels and new tires in the deal.
I love this car! It’s just so awesome compared to anything I’ve previously owned... mostly Mazda sports cars (Miatas, RX8...). The handling, the performance... and even better the local PCA group is absolutely fantastic!
Then 1st DE, I snapped a rod on the front straightaway at High Plains Raceway. Block was badly damaged (trashed...? IDK - maybe F6I coulda fixed it). I was trying to be super careful about proper maintenance. The car had just had a fresh change of Motul 8700. Zero type 2 over-revs. No previous indications of a problem. Just suddenly a funny shudder and nothing.
I looked at options: F6I? Local? Nothing was cheap. To be honest, it took me 3 months to come to grips with the cost and another month to figure out how to fund the project. I think if cost had been a non-issue I would have shipped it off to F6I. And in the end the repair took almost as long and cost about the same as if I’d sent the car to Georgia. Fortunately I’m happy with the end result of the repair, despite that it cost more than I paid for the car to begin with.
Would I do it again? Absolutely. In a short minute. Life’s too short. If this is a dream of yours (I’ve wanted a Porsche since the 959, and honestly never thought I’d own one), you absolutely should make it a reality. I have no regrets. And it’s pretty uncommon to have a relatively well-maintained car grenade at your first DE. Oh, and DE your car! They’re great on the street, but you won’t really know what they can do until you get it out on a good track. PCA does a brilliant job: you get an instructor riding shotgun with you for the day who knows the track and knows the 911.
And now I have a fresh 4.0L (7,000 mi on the new rebuild) with new PSS10 coil-overs.
-Scott
Arvada, CO
+1
Of all my cars my favorite is my 996....exactly because of the bang for the buck, the ease of DIY and the easiest and cheapest to customize and make your own. For me its my forever car...all others will come and go. Take the plunge nd the words of Tom Cruise
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...1&&FORM=VRDGAR
You will always be looking for reasons to drive
I'm surprised. Looking at your collection, I would have thought you'd pick one of your air cooled Porsches. You're a very fortunate man to have such nice toys. Enjoy them while you're able. Cheers in the New Year!
The "edge" would be growing old having never owned a 996
Seriously. It's that good. On it's own -- and even more so when it has been a lifelong dream.
If you want to minimize risk, an early 996.1 with dual row IMS might be slightly safer, but in general, 996's are super reliable (both of mine have been among the most reliable cars I've owned).
Nothing is risk free, but when it's a lifelong dream and the situation is right (as it seems to be for you), you've got to go for it (in my opinion).
I have a similar story. 49, oldest graduated college, youngest in college. Have wanted one for 25 years. Watched a lot of people get sick or die over the years. I remember seeing a 996 a couple of years ago saying �I don�t think I could ever come up with the money for that...� but this summer, I did. Was nervous about IMSB as mine only has 27k miles on it. Magnetic drain plug and monitoring the oil filter pleats every 2k miles.
But WOW what a car! I do not daily drive mine - just not practical for me, but it is such a fun car. And man, can it take a pounding.
My favorite was the early 90�s models, but the prices are too high for me. After reading all the reviews about how mass production really brought high quality to the 911, I now buy into the �it�s an overall better car than the prior models.� More reliable, fewer things go bad, assembly-line assembly. It works for me and I love it. Like many others, I�ve also become quite accustomed to the fried-egg headlights.
I watched the magazines and price reports, and finally a magazine I picked up said �now is the time to buy a 996� and that set things in motion.
And here I am with a beautiful dark green cabriolet sitting in my garage. No regrets. Would, and possibly will, buy another one. Good luck.
-Jim
Follow up to nuttyprofessor….
Honestly, i dont drive the aircooled cars at all and have started selling them. I have been ruined by the precision and performance of newer cars making the aircooled cars not satisfying at all. My 996 is my last manual car and highly modified by me....i not only drive it but i have pretty much touched everything for better performance. It's unique to me.
I bought many different cars, worried about some of them(Lambo Espada) a lot. I went into the 996 purchase knowing as much as I could, and still paid the entry fee. Did my own bearing, oil filter, clutch, ign switch, and Y starter cable. Although I was still worried when I drove it, eventually I just let it run and keep up with reg mx. Ultimately I sold it because I made money on the flip, but plenty of times I miss it and would like to have back.
The downside is the weakness of the M96 with all its various failure modes. Engines are in very short supply because of so many failures. It's quite a shame. I can buy a used 928 V8 engine for $2000-3500. No such luck with the 996. Big risk, big reward. The 996 is a joy to drive and own when everything is working well.
I bought a new 996 in 2001 C4 Cab drove it daily for 5 years put 60k miles on it. Snow tires in winter. I did better in the snow than my Jeep family hauler!! Did all maintenance myself. (really just oil changes every 5k) It never went to the dealer for anything.The kids were getting older finances tougher so I sold it. BIGGEST MISTAKE! The kids loved riding in the car I had 3 car seats and an airbag cutoff switch in the front seat. Fast forward 11 years later I find a 2003 C4 cab garage queen with 10400 miles on it. Bought it immediately had the IMS solution done new water pump and other small things. I drive it daily put snow tires on it and hard top. It brings a smile on my face every day! ONLY thing is I think I have turbo fever and keep looking for the right turbo. I might still keep the 996 if I find the right turbo
The price is very right. If it were 6 months from now, I could pay cash. But I have to arrange a few financials if I want to wrap it up by Friday. I don't want to let this one go.
I bought my first 996 from a Benz dealer. I lowballed em and they wanted the beautiful Porsche gone so customers would stop looking at that instead of their used MB’s. Really nice car! I have that wing too.
The fact is, if you really came here to get �talked down�, you came to the wrong place! The car looks great, but remember looks can be deceiving. If you�ve looked into all the mechanicals and they check out, just go get it. There�s only so much hand wringing you can do... Good luck
Want to be talked out of buying a Porsche? Go to Rennlist
Drinking problem? Go to a frat house
Infidelity issues? Go to a brothel
Gambling problems? Go to a casino
Debt problems? Amazon, eBay, PelicanParts, LN Engineering, SunCoast, SunSet, Fabspeed...
Haha! Words to live by in 2019!!
OP, car looks nice, but do you mind if I ask how much? Plenty of black 996 out there. Do your due diligence before dropping the $$.
I'm paranoid that someone will read what I'm paying and go "Holy crap, I'll offer more than that". So I'll wait until the deal is done, and then let ya'll know.
My logic when making a purchase like this is Bills paid? Emergency fund? Money is contributed to retirement? If I can answer yes to these questions then whatever money we have left is ours to what we want with. I am 32 and I constantly obsess over our finances which I guess is better than not caring it however makes spending sometimes a difficult task. We save a lot and while owning a 911 makes our monthly budget tighter we still stock away the same percentage into out retirement and emergency fund. We aren't rich, we aren't poor but I will be damned if I wake up 30 years from now and regret not doing anything I ever wanted.
Well guys, I've decided against the purchase at this time. If it were 6 months from now, I probably would have gone ahead. I just need a bit more of a financial security blanket at this time. Thanks in advance for all your help. And if anybody wants to buy it, contact Dari at Mercedes Benz West Edmonton
https://www.mercedes-benz-edmontonwest.ca/
It was advertised for $35K (CAD), and they accepted my offer of $30K (CAD), which is about $22K USD. I'm going to go and cry now.
Well, if it can help any, it wasn't that good of a deal.... I am currently eyeing a 2002 Carrera4 convertible with 79000 kms, aftermarket big smart radio with nav, bluetooth, smart phone friendly etc.... has GT3 wheels etc... and so far, I have the guy as low as $26500 Can right now. I am quite certain I can deal it down to $25000 Can. Only downside is that it is 7 hours away and the IMS hasn't been done on it and it makes me nervous to drive it that distance to come back home.
And..... I prefer the looks of the 997 with that ever sexy wide hips rear end with extra wide tires.... So trying to convince the wife to augment my toy budget.
Bullet dodged. That car is a rolling wreck! That's mostly a parts car, and I wouldn't let me worst enemy drive it to the breakers yard. Get real, find a good local car from CL for $13k US, and plunk down the cash. PPI?? fuggeddabouditt.
Feel better now? (BTW, the link doesn't have any 996s offered)
Also agree with the prev poster who said black is common. Get what you really want, if it's black, that's fine, but don't compromise getting the 996 that will give you that satisfaction.
Just read you're bowing out, after I just finished off an amplification of the PPI need. You may want to be aware if you get back in the hunt, so here it is anyway.
One concern nobody seems to be mentioning. PPI of course, but will there be consideration of the quality of that IMSB replacement? You'd find researching Rennlist, or Flat 6 Innovations more directly, that you have to be assured there was no old IMSB deterioration that was still resident in the engine -- metal particles scattered throughout the engine that continue to grind away at that valuable motor. There is the possibility that prior to the replacement of the IMSB, the engine was not properly vetted for internal wear and metal particle contamination, which would do in the engine ultimately despite the new IMSB. An exhaustive PPI which included oil filter and sump inspection and bore scoping should cover the issue, never mind finding out what you can about that IMSB work. There are a few tales about mechanics ignorant or cynical who did not properly explore that aspect prior to the IMSB replacement and soon enough those engines would go kablooey. Flat 6 Innovations when training installers of their several versions of the IMSB replacement made sure they understood the importance of what they called 'prequalifying' of candidate cars for the installation. In their own installations Flat 6 would sometimes reject 996s as being unfit to benefit from a new IMSB. Such a car would presumably go off and commit hari kari somewhere. The Installers of their IMSBs would be certified by Flat 6 as being capable of a correct installation. In some cases that certification has been pulled when installers were considered to be flouting a proper 'prequalification' process.
Definitely short and sweet and inspriational. Don't screw around!
I, at 51, was able to purchase my dream car like you, all the stars aligned and I jumped in feet first. I did not even know if the "good" updates had really been done at the time and was going off of my mechanic's. I probably should have done a real PPI, but hey, the price was incredible and like I have seen said many times in this thread (and many others) the frickin smile these cars gives us each time we get in does not stop.
As I always say, if it does blow and it is beyond my means to rebuild, I had the opportunity to check off a dream car on my bucket list and then have the coolest lawn art in my neighborhood sitting in my front, landscaped yard.
I won't talk you down, I couldn't in my right mind.
Probably better off waiting if you don't feel ready. Given that you are tight on budget, you will almost always get a better deal privately. Plus dealers usually flush the service records. Part of the thrill is in the "hunt". Since you've got time before you're ready, spend that time looking at 996s. Get to know the options, which model you like -- Tiptronic/6-speed, Cab/Coupe, awd vs 2wd, 996.1/996.2 -- all make a big difference in how they drive. Options like full leather and 3-spoke wheel make a large difference. If you look, you will find a super well maintained car with records at a reasonable price -- that approach will also provide the best chance of minimizing issues.
Wait until you have the cash available and then you can jump on a great deal.
I did that in 2017 at 50 years old.
I found a low mileage 2002 with IMS Solution, Fabspeed exhaust, manual transmission, clear bra, new tires for just US$20K being advertised in the local PCA Facebook page by a local police officer.
Durametric confirmed camshaft deviation in spec, no overrevs. Manometer showed perfect AOS. It needed a new windshield and a new control arm.
I paid with a cashiers check the next day.
1 year and 12k later I still love it!
There�s always another one. I bought 3 different Porsche models over the course of 10 years, all under $20k. If you wait six months, you might be paying a higher cost, though, assuming it�s prime (summer) time. But there are still deals.
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