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YOUR RESEARCHSubaru BRZ over 996 according to millionaires
Leading reported evidence
Repair due
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
An FRS in our driving group has pinged off every wheel stud over the years, broke the subframe at the sway bar mounts (stock bar) and needed several threads repaired due to galling.
Leading evidence: 'Repair due' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'track records as far as engine reliability' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Repair due' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suspected cause
The BRZ/GR86 both have some pretty suspect track records as far as engine reliability.
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Suggestion
And the reality is the reliability/cost of repair factor for anyone that really KNOWS (which I believe Spike and Jerry do), is a huge red flag.
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Suggestion
I've run my 86 for seven years on nothing but oil changes and regular maintenance.
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Suggestion
Agree the BRZ is surprisingly practical for it's size -- I brought my son's largest jazz guitar/case to the BRZ test drive and it fit.
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Repair due
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported fixes
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
An FRS in our driving group has pinged off every wheel stud over the years, broke the subframe at the sway bar mounts (stock bar) and needed several threads repaired due to galling.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
58 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T120458Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Everyone's favorite elitist car podcast, spikes car radio, with guest Jerry Seinfeld, were asked by a listener; 'new brz or 996?'.
After mere seconds, Jerry and crew said they would have a BRZ. 'fresher'. 'newer' etc.
I would suggest then, that we take all of their collector 911s away, (is easy to find them, just look in the garage under a cover, they're driving 120k SUVs on the daily) and most of their money, and ask the same question.
Pfft...I would posit that they as a group are not really 911 or driving fans. They're simply bored rich collectors who like to buy shiny over priced air cooled cars, watches, and cigars. And then share their latest purchases over a podcast.
Side note, their sponsors are pure class...
AG1 miracle fountain of youth pills!
Something called Blue chews, for obviously bonerless old men children.
And others.
it's all sh...t
If I were to recommend one automotive podcast, it would be Smith 'n Sniff. No elitism there. And far better humor. Thank me later.
/Rant
Carmudgeon
Show and Smoking Tire are the two I enjoy. To be honest though, which car should I buy questions are pretty dumb. How is someone that is a total stranger to you supposed to know what car you will enjoy better? There is so much that needs to be taken into account that the people answering don't know that it's kind of impossible for someone to give you a genuine answer. If this was worded as "I'm looking at buying car x or car y and was curious how they would compare in terms of driving dynamics or driving experience on track and on roads" you might get a more useful response. Besides that they just answer these questions quickly and move on to the next one. Most of these guys don't own cars long enough to care about any of the gremlins they might have and might never experience them because they either move on to something else or drive it 100 miles in a year. I do respect Jason Cammisa because not only does he drive the **** out of his cars but also does much of the work on them. That along with his crazy spreadsheet of test cars he's driven would put him at the front of giving you some useful feedback.
BRZ ts $35.3k starting msrp. 228hp 184ft.lbs torq. curb wt. 2,846
Sounds anemic to me. No Thanks!
To each their own.
As far as podcasts...most are garbage.
I have both. The BRZ / 86 has superior steering feel, driving position, ergonomics, balance and is more accessible. Also gets much better mileage and has been (in my case) very reliable in the 6.5 years I've owned it. And it's more spacious and practical yet more compact. Clocked 150 on the German autobahn so it's not exactly slow.
I still bought a 996 though
. They're not really an either / or proposition.
As a daily, I'd go BRZ any day. As a fun car, whilst they may cost the same to purchase, running costs are quite different and I doubt they get crossed shop much.
996 and BRZ = Chalk and cheese
Spike is your typical Porsche deviated stitching enthusiast.
Everything is about paint to sample and special wishes.
Most people would find it difficult to come off as douchey as they do naturally.
I don�t think they put any REAL thought into that answer and the perspective of ppl with blank checks and garages full of unattainable stuff is something I put little stock in. And the reality is the reliability/cost of repair factor for anyone that really KNOWS (which I believe Spike and Jerry do), is a huge red flag. There�s just no denying it.
That said, I�ve casually met Spike several times and he�s always pleasant and funny, and very down-to-earth. I have no axe to grind with him or his show. You really can�t take **** like this that seriously.
It�s around $30-35k for a Nickies-equipped build done right by someone reputable, and that�s if your crankshaft doesn�t need to be replaced. Ask me how I know
My Raby 3.8 reconstruction(Nickies equipped, crankshaft was good and done right by someone reputable) was no where near that $35k mark in 2019. Prices must haver really escalated since then.
My understanding is 2020 and onwards really pushed prices high. Whether it be supply chain issues or greedflation is up for debate.
I don't think many on here have broadcasted how much they spent but I have been told on a number of occasions that $30k (and higher) is the magic number.
Not enough to justify throwing $38k at and install is a good $3k from what I�ve seen. I should net 330-340 at the wheels from my 3.8 build, but I also have no plans to track it and find the horsepower convo REALLY boring in the context of these cars. A stock m96-powered 3.4L C2 has similar power-to-weight numbers to a 993 RS and people lose their minds over that car. I mostly just want it to accentuate the things I liked about the 3.4 without exploding ever again.
It would seem to be the modern M96 - drive it a certain way and it's gone, but I know a couple people winning season after season on track without issue.
Subjective hand-wringing aside, Subaru build quality and materials are not up to scratch for real long-term ownership. An FRS in our driving group has pinged off every wheel stud over the years, broke the subframe at the sway bar mounts (stock bar) and needed several threads repaired due to galling. Street car in Los Angeles... It's not even 10 years old man. The twins feel really good to drive (ZN8 even better than ZN6) but stuff like this scares me away from buying. 996's have their issues but so far the bolts and clips I've touched don't feel like they're on a timer.
4.0's making 330-340WHP
I would say closer to 315-320WHP based on what we've seen but would love to be proven wrong.
Theres also some pricing info in the thread linked below from those who shared or what I was able to find on the internet.
996 Horsepower
I�m just havin� a goof. I know Z has that HP chart printed out on his locker door next to a Playboy centerfold. To each their own, just don�t **** on my parade
I have to agree regarding Subaru. I've owned several, and I had great reliability from one of them (2005 STi), but all of them showed evidence of poor quality somewhere or another as time passed. Deteriorating parts that just don't deteriorate on other cars. My neighbor has a Forester that's had 3 short blocks done under warranty. I have other stories too. Subaru quality gets compared with Toyota and Honda but it's not really in that league.
Thanks for all the feedback to my rant haha. I'm still listening to spikes car radio, and sometimes they really do get on my nerves. But, I have no friends so I pretend I'm in the room and provide a retort or content to the things I find interesting. Tennis, cigars and watches are not those things...
I was listening to the smoking tire for a bit, but I am just too sensitive to Matt Fs pseudo California persona. I know it's not intentional, or I hope it is. The accent and speaking style he puts on is too cool for school. He's really gone full Hollywood douche.
I will try the curmudgeon pod, looks great!
I am retired, and I walk the dog for miles even in the bad Nova Scotia weather we get this time of year so podcasts give me something to do.
If anyone is interested in something a little different, my absolute favorite podcast is from Paul Tarsey and the crew at the Historic Racing News pod. I am decidedly old school where racing is concerned. I'm into the prewar stuff as well as 50s 60s and 70s. My bookshelf is full of books on the subject. On the daily right now I'm thumbing through the excellent 'Klemantaski Himself'. What a photographer he was, and he lived a very interesting life. No telephoto lens back then, and no safety at all...
https://www.palawan.co.uk/product/kl...mself-edition/
enjoy!
(See what happens when I winterize the car and leave it in the garage?) Soon ... Spring is nigh.
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There is no way Jerry would buy a BRZ over a 996, not a chance. Think about that for a second. Here comes Jerry Seinfeld pulling up to C and C in a ....BRZ. Laughable. He would however pull up in a 996, cause he bought a million dollar one.
Jerry is a cool guy don't be too hard on him, it's just words, his actions speak louder.
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No, but I do believe air cooled cars are considerably more valuable than 996�s making the rebuild cost to car value ratio a little less stupid than it is for a $32K M96. That at least somewhat justifies the cost if the rebuilt air cooled motors make as little power as a rebuilt M96. Not that I would ever pay the money for a rebuilt air cooled just like I wouldn�t for an M96. If spending a bunch of money on an engine, I want it to party.
FWIW, the motor in the BRZ blows too. Another chassis let down by its engine and another chassis ripe for swapping in a worthy power plant.
From what i read Jake Raby was pretty much ready to punch out, so who knows why leading up to that moment he and his company decided to put up the prices to such an extent, when your order books are full then you have something people want, you can charge more, so either the market will pay, and their business will succeed or the business will fail due to overcharging.
But there is a new game in town, and i have to say its about time as it will give us options... Slakker Racing they are using the UK Hartech rebuild system, they are in OK..
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Funnily enough, I went out to test drive a brand new BRZ several years ago, fully intending to buy it. I thought it would be great car for my son, and I liked the idea that it didn't have too much power so he couldn't get carried away. It was an excellent car in most respects, but it had zero torque in normal driving. Even with my foot in it, it just didn't feel fast. 0-60 is 6.2 seconds, which is typically fast enough for me, but honestly it felt like a 9 second 0-60 car when driving it. I liked everything else about the car, but the power delivery in normal driving took every bit of fun out of it.
I ended up buying a 996.1 C2/6sp/Coupe instead. With full leather and contrasting interior, I like everything about the 996 a million times better than the BRZ -- driving wise and inside the car. The 996 is just in a different league. The BRZ is excellent and surprisingly practical, but compared to what you get in a 996 -- it's not close. I'm aware they finally updated the 2022 BRZ to improve torque a bit (after almost 10 years???), but I'm certain I'd still take a 996 over it by a wide margin.
I'm guessing those guys have never actually driven a BRZ, so it was a hypothetical. Without real-world experience in both a BRZ and a lightweight 996 (base model is my preference), you'd probably assume the BRZ must be better. I'm guessing they'd have different opinions having driven both. That said, some could prefer the BRZ over the 996, and they'd be right for them. It all depends on what you are looking for in a car. But if 100 people drove a BRZ and a proper 996 back to back, my guess would be that the 996 would get a lot more votes (not a shock, since the 996 was an $80+k car 2000's prices).
I know I mentioned it earlier but man� they also have the 2.0 Turbo used in the Supra if the GR Corolla isn�t an option. The engines are in Toyota�s inventory.
K Swaps are hardly sorted at the moment. Lots of NVH, so much that folks are breaking their TB bolts within a few hours of running. Fine for a track car, not for a street car.
The running costs are not even close though. I've run my 86 for seven years on nothing but oil changes and regular maintenance. The car must have cost me 3k total in maintenance over 45k miles. Good luck get even close to that number in a 996 (luck is actually what you'll need!
). Plus, 30mpg all day long, $90 a tire, etc.
It's also very practical. I've gone wild camping in Norway with mine, hauled a bicycle, did tons of Ikea runs (including 2x 8ft oak countertops in one trip).
The 86 will be your DD where the 996 is the weekend toy.
I agree -- which one is best all depends on what you are looking for and what are using it for. Maintenance and worries about potential issues are going to be much lower.
Both my 996's have been very, very reliable, and I would not hesitate to drive it daily. The first 996 C4 Tip we had was my wife's daily driver for years, even during snow (with winter tires). Agree the BRZ is surprisingly practical for it's size -- I brought my son's largest jazz guitar/case to the BRZ test drive and it fit.
Just the lack of torque really, really took every bit of fun out of it for me for an otherwise excellent car. I don't know how they went almost a decade until they improved the torque, or why they didn't offer a supercharger or turbocharger option -- it was screaming for it. Of course, it took Porsche a decade to finally eliminate the IMS bearing with the 997.2. So there's that
.
The new one is reasonably quick. Gen 1s were rated at 200hp but dynoed at 190-195. Gen 2s are rated at 228hp but dyno around 240hp. With the same weight, box & ratios.
Your perception also highly depends on where you're coming from. 996 apart, I'd never owed a car with more than 170-180lb.ft of torque. So the 86 seems more than reasonably torquey. Also depends on where you're driving it. My home region is mostly flat at around 500ft-ish altitude. Driving the 86 with a passenger, a toddler and vacation luggage through the Swiss mountains was a bit more tedious.
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Jerry does indeed own and drive a WRX and has high praise for it. There are many enjoyable performance cars outside of the Porsche universe. The current GR/BRZ is a true driver's car. It's not just about power, if it was we'd all be driving Mustangs.
For what is worth, I just sold my GR86, which is the same car as BRZ but better look imo, with 1,200 miles.
Great car and really fun to drive. The weight is key. Very light to toss around to have fun but the power band is really flat above 4k rpm. It's a great car to learn the fundamental but feels cheap quickly. I do have to agree for 33k and new car warranty, nothing else can be more fun out there.
Having said above, I still much prefer the Porsche experience, specifically 986 Boxster S & 996 Carrera that are in the same price range as BRZ/GR86. There's no substitute, if one can afford it!
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