Talk me down?

Soooo, I'm not really in the market at all, but I saw this article the other day and its been keeping me up are at night. The cheap 996 at the top of the article is near my home. It's nearly the same color as my old 928 that I loved. I do my own wrenching, and I have a back up car, but I don't have $12K I can throw away if this thing grenades. So, you only live once? Don't be stupid, you can't finance a 20 year old car. Edited to add: yes it's a tip, and though I prefer stick, if I pulled the trigger on this, I would putting miles on it, and a tip makes more sense for where and how I drive.

If you like the colour and the interior spec/package... then go for it. :-) I guess do your own googling about engine issues and make up your own mind based on the vehicles service history and what's been done to it. I have a tiptronic 996 - which I picked up by choice. I wanted a daily driver - something I could easily commute in. I also had very specific preferences around colour and interior; silver on black basically. My car looks exactly like this one: http://richmonds.com.au/portfolio/19...e-911-carrera/ The Tiptronic is great for a 20 year old automatic. Like, really good for it's age. But you just don't get the feel of the engine in the same way - You cant play with and hold it in the power band like you can in the manual. But then again you know a tiptronic has never been over-revved and you dont have expensive clutch replacements. In the Australian market the Tiptronic is probably more desirable in general. So basically I now have to buy another 911 with a manual box to scratch that itch. I'll be needing a bigger garage LOL

YES, you can finance a 20 year old car if you have good credit. Pen Fed or LightStream. I used LightStream to buy a 15 year old 996 recently. They ACH the money to your bank account and they don't hold the title and they really don't care what the car is (thus the requirement that you have good credit). Pen Fed wanted the particulars on the car and couldn't tell me the interest rate until that point, so the savings juice wasn't worth the squeeze so I went with LightStream. They are a subsidiary of Suntrust. And just keep in mind that your "cheap" 996 will likely come with a maintenance bill behind it from a few thousand dollars on up... As I said before here, you should definitely drop the oil sump cover and verify that there are no metal or plastic bits in there. But realize that someone else could have done the same and removed them. Mine had pieces of timing chain roller in it which is why it is off getting work done on it to the tune of a lot more than a couple thousand dollars...

My 2 cents: Don't buy any older Porsche if you can't pay cash. And especially don't buy a low price 996 unless you have the ability to spend another $5k +/- out of pocket to do deferred and preventative maintenance (in the absence of proof of recent work). If the off chance of having a $10-20K engine grenade keeps you awake at night, it probably isn't the right vehicle.

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My plan was to finance in case a big bill showed up after I bought it. I definitely wouldn't buy a 996 because it is "cheap". The reality is that you can probably get a decent 997 for $40-50K and you could easily be out $30-40K on a 996 after acquisition and repairs. Every local shop may tell you "I've never seen an IMS issue", but so what, there are a lot of other things that can go wrong with one of these engines. I knew when I bought it I was gambling, but I bought the 996 as my first Porsche and I bought one that had what I wanted in a car that I was going to keep forever: great interior, great paint, manual transmission, black on black, RWD, and very few options (less to break over time). I was prepared to have the engine rebuilt if necessary. Fortunately I found the chain roller bits before the engine grenaded at 70 mph.

Said another way... Sir, please turn around slowly and step away from the ledge...

I wasnt in the market for my 996 either until I kept seeing its price drop on craigslist and I went out to have a look on a whim. Mine didnt come with ANY history and post purchase inspection at my local dealer gave me a $10K repair bill... HA! DIY im sure it'll all be done for less than $3k... The risk will ALWAYS be there... just have a plan. Mine isnt my daily driver so if I have to park it for a year to collect parts/do repairs, so be it. I'd say find one in the configuration you want though. It would be more enjoyable that way.

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+1

Don�t come to a 996 enthusiast forum and expect us to convince you not to buy a 996. Not gonna happen.

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. One of the reasons that I feel so drawn to this car, is that, for what would be a fairly impractical purchase, a C4 tip is probably fits my needs better than any other configuration. I love the color. Also, my good friend that is a very good professorial mechanic, whom I run to whenever there's an issue beyond my skills or tools, lives in the town where this car is being sold. He is a Porsche guy, that owns an early 996. He said he'd check it out for me for free. These things are drawing me in! I know I should walk away, it's just so sexy! HELP!

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You know what�s sexy? Saving up and paying cash for a toy, and then having even more cash laying around to pay a $3,500 bill that is surely to come without wining and complaining. It�s having the mental strength and discipline to think about your dreams and goals and then having the sustainable fortitude to go out there every day to make that dream a reality for you with determination and persistence. You will be a hell of a lot more sexy than some car that, quite honestly, isn�t really a sexy car compared to sexy cars. Or you could just buy it and forget about what�s sexy.

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Fear not. I'm already sexy. I was talking about the car. ​​​​

My suggestion is to always pay cash for everything, especially for depreciating assets !

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About that, I would absolutely expect depreciation, but do you expect prices to just keep falling? Are we looking at $5-6K 996's in a few years like some old 944's. I kind of had the idea, outside of the expected high maintenance costs, and as cheap as the purchase price is already, it couldn't depreciate all that much. But that isn't really based on any experience or anything. That may just be be trying to justify the purchase in my head.

Doesn't matter. Car is gone. Unless the OP wrote the check(although I doubt it if he's into finance). This car is no longer listed for sale. As for financing depreciating assets, I did it once. That was enough for me.

Or just go with it. I've done that with most of the Porsches I've purchased over the decades, and so far it has worked out for me each time. The 911/996 is an incredibly fun car and a bargain for what they are selling for these days. Sounds like the stars are aligning on this one for you. Enjoy the ride. I think a lot of us are just trying to help you avoid buyer's remorse. Sounds like you're going into it eyes wide open.

I would think you could buy it and sell it for what you bought it for a year or two down the road. Prob going to lose $$ in repairs along the way though.

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Hey Doc, It was still for sale last night when I dropped by the dealership last night.. It is still on their website as well.

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I hope prices don't go down, but I wouldn't place a bet against them going down. Will we see $5-6K running 996s in a few years? Yes, probably. But not the ones in good condition. Will we see non-running 996s for $5-6K? Yes, they're available now.

Deals are out there! Especially for the diy ers of us. I grabbed a 99 Arena Red C2 Tip for $7k. If it grenades, I'll be bummed but not mad. Ill be installing AOS and IMSB this winter for peace of mind next year. My advise for finding a deal? Stop looking at BAT/AutoTrader/Jalopnik and all the other mainstream media outlets. They are all click bait IMHO. Start to let your daily commute and weekend availability define your needs and wants. Search nationally but purchase locally. The original owners of these cars got these when exotics were bought and sold in newspapers before craigslist and Ebay were a thing. It will be up to you to find the mis categorized ad or roadside For Sale sign.

Yeah, for the last few years I've just casually scrolled through Craigslist and Facebook Market searching "Porsche" as a time killer. Not really shopping. This time I wasn't even looking for cars. I was just scrolling on Facebook when an Oversteer article popped up. Nice looking 996 on top, figured I'd give it a click. See that it is the cheapest on Autotrader, my color and trans, and in my backyard.

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Porsche **** can make you blind son... are you listening to me son?!!! Are your ears on? Now, let's all calm down and come back down to earth. What you have sir is just pure and simple LUST... and lust will get a man in trouble, I'm tellin' you! You need to back away from the computer and go find a nice used Prius and stick a Carrera emblem on the back. Boom... problem solved.

The concern isn't depreciation -- we are pretty far down the depreciation curve and prices are unlikely to go up or down significantly in the near term. The concern is an unexpected major expense and/or a major failure. Much as I encourage people to enjoy life, especially when it comes to getting a dream car, it's never worth taking financial risks to make that happen -- and going "all in" on 996 is a risk that is not worth taking. Why not get a Boxster? --> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Porsch...2:pf:0&vxp=mtr

I love Boxsters, but I need a back seat and a hardtop.

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The back seat really only fits small children.

Best car purchase I made was grabbing a $600 Honda Odyssey. It allows me to get to and from work, take care of chores, haul family/friends... All while I slowly set money aside, watch the local ads and patiently canvas for P cars

My advice on this or any other Porsche you look at is NEVER EVER finance a toy. Especially one that can turn into a paper weight when the motor grenades. Save your money and if you have to finance have at least 50-75% down to minimize risk.

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I like Honda Odysseys. Except for the onces made in the early 2000s with the transmissions made out of cardboard. I have a 2011. It's my "truck" for now.

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I have three kids, but more often than not, I have only one or two of them with it at a time. The backseat, as small as it is, is a necessity. ​​​​​​I have a cheap, old 4runner that I use for a family truckster, bad weather vehicle, and a backup I use when I'm working on my XK8 which is my usual ride. The 4runner costs almost nothing to run. I've always paid cash for cars. It makes all the sense in the world. I'll likely be financing my next car, whatever it is. So, I was thinking why not get one I love? The paperweight thing though, that's the only reason I haven't bought it already.

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I just followed the link in your post to the auto site, and said it was no longer avail. doesn't matter either way to me.

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It's not a crazy idea. If you bought a newer typical car, the depreciation you will see in value over a few years will be significant, where there will be almost none on the 996. If you buy a newish Toyota for around $12k today, it will probably be worth about $3k in 5 years. Maintenance-wise, if nothing serious goes wrong, it doesn't cost much more to maintain a 996 than it does other cars -- especially if you do routine maintenance yourself. The only risk is if something bad happens. What year is the car you are looking at? The early 996.1 with dual-row IMS is probably the least likely to give you catastrophic problems.

It's a 99 C4 tip. Should be dual row, right?

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Should be, unless it has had a replacement engine at some point in its life (you can tell if it's had a replacement by looking at the engine number). Have you looked at the CarFax for the car?

I have. It's a clean carfax. Had the tranny rebuilt last year. I called the garage that did it, and asked if they replaced the IMSB while they were in there. The garage owner was nice enough to look it up for me and told me that it was not replaced at that time.

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What kind of rate do yeah give on a 15-20 yr old car? Even with excellent credit I can't imagine it would be optimal.

Think I'm looking at mid 4's. Not too bad.

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I couldn't agree with this statement more, minus the 50-75%. CASH CASH CASH for ALL toys. What are you going to do when you finance a 15k Porsche, the engine grenades and it costs another 15k to replace it? Now you are making payments on a car sitting in your driveway, or you are letting it get repoed and you are killing your credit. I was having this exact convo with a friend yesterday. Also if you pay cash and **** hits the fan for you financially you can always sell the toy and get some money back in the bank, if there is a loan on it you have to hope to sell for what you owe, and still make payments while maybe you just lost your job etc.

Most of the reading I had done prior to this post made it seem like the engine issues on this model had been overplayed by a vocal minority. Perhaps I was mistaken.

It�s not overplayed, we are just the enthusiast group. I�m willing to bet most people other than here have no clue what an ims is and have never paid attention to it.

Atrox, I think they are beautiful cars! Obviously, I am in lust with one right now. And I did ask for the truth, so I'm grateful to everyone that replied. The truth seems to be that there i doesn't seem to be a ton of confidence in this forum regarding these cars. I sincerely hope this isn't offending anyone. I love Rennlist and Porsches, as I'm sure everyone here does. But the reoccurring theme of the expecting the engine to blow, just sounds like a number of owners don't trust these cars, and keep referring to them as toys. I don't mind some risk, and I've always thought that doing my own work mitigated a portion of that risk. I love buying great cars that others are afraid to buy because of some misunderstood fatal flaw that has driven prices down. I kept seeing a figure of 1% of IMSB failures on the early engines. I understand there are other failure modes. I was under the impression that this was a very nice, misunderstood car. ​​​​However, when you ask about buying a car and a bunch of current owners ask what you're going to do when the engine blows, it gives you pause! Now apparently if I buy this car, not only am I out the purchase price, but I lose my job too? Pretty raw deal.

The failure rate of these cars was like 3-5 percent of all 996�s. What most are trying to say here is these are older cars and stuff will break. Some stuff is cheap to fix and other stuff not. Lots of people daily drive theirs and lots just drive 3-5k miles a year. (Go price a replacement engine) At at the end of the day it�s an older exotic and even though the cars are cheap the repairs are still in line of the original purchase price if you are not handy with a wrench. Ive had mine for 5 years and it�s the most reliable and cheapest to maintain car I�ve ever owned. Buy it man, you only live once.

See, I like this guy!👆 I'm used to maintenance and "normal" repairs on more expensive, aging cars. I've had an 82 928, Land Rover, Mercedes, and I'm currently driving a 2001 Jaguar XK8. I'm used to the ordering expensive parts from specialists. ​​​​​​There aren't many jobs, short an engine rebuild I would be too afraid to take on myself. And, if I have to break off a few grand at once at some point to keep the thing alive, although I'd feel it, I wouldn't be destitute. $8K for a replacement engine, would cause some marital tension for sure.

If your stuck on that particular car, just pay cash for it and drive it. If the motor blows, it blows. I would think that you could get back easily 50%+ of your investment parting it out if it died.

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I doubt if a complete one can still be found for $8K.

I thought a guy in another thread found one for $7K today, but I could be wrong. At any rate, I think I could handle (read: afford) just about anything short of a catastrophic engine failure. So, how often do these things blow up? ​

The truth is no one knows how often the engines blow up on these cars, but the risk is real. I was in your shoes just a month ago and bought a nice 99 with 70k miles on it. No scary noises when I bought it, but within a few weeks it had developed a pinging noise at startup which turned out to be bore scoring. I�m looking at a $15k engine rebuild on a car I haven�t even received plates for yet. Don�t forget that if you aren�t the kind of person who can install an engine yourself, you�ll have to pay someone $4-5k to install the engine you buy. So that $7k engine is a $13k project.

Sorry to hear that, man. That's brutal. Isn't bore scoring supposed to be less common on the early engines? It does illustrate that, to a degree, it's luck of the draw. Hope everything works out the best it can. ​​​​​​

Or just save up and buy a turbo that�s what I did. Worry free mezger.

I kept my boxster til I had a second kid. Driving my partner and two little kids in the 996 is everything you've dreamed of. As far as adults, fitting back there, I squeezed plenty of friends in the back of my 73 911. It was always a hilarious and worthy squeeze.

I honestly think there is about the same space as my current car. I need the back seat for occasionally shuttling a couple of kids around town, or for tossing in a couple few cases of wine for work. Of course, the Jag has a bigger trunk, but I have the 4runner if I need to move more stuff or people. ​​

I daily drive mine. I do my own repairs. My 996 has been more reliable and cheaper to maintain than my BMW 135i that it replaced. I bought it September 2017. It cost me $846 in repairs the first 12 months. (Windshield, control arm, headlight switch) So far I’ve spent $323 the last month and a half. (Gbox, passenger side window regulator) I’ve also spent several thousand dollars in mods! Yep, these cars cost you a LOT! At least I still have my job...but that will probably go first.

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I'm also a 928 nut, and I bought a 99 996 with 80k on the clock. The reason I bought an 99 is to minimize exposure to some but not all of the engine failure modes. Within 3000 miles, I put in the LN bearing in the engine, full flow filter, third radiator, and mag oil plug. Everything I could do to avoid catastrophic failure. But - I still worried each time I drove it that I would hit one of the billion failure modes. Finally, I found a buyer for my gem and sold it. There's risk, and then there's risk. You can't buy a 996 lump for $2000 like a 928. If you want to get one, do your regular mx, and then do your special mx and upgrade the things you can. Live with the risk. The 996 is a bargain package of great fun. I miss it every weekend. You won't be disappointed, unless you hit the engine lotto, then you can sell it for a roller for $6k and beg the wife for a chance to sleep inside soon.

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Again, no one has real data on failure rates of different modes on different years. However, the standard wisdom seems to be that the early engines suffered fewer IMS failures but more frequent bore scoring and RMS issues.

Doc, I remembered you from the 928 forum. I haven't spent any time on Rennlist partly because I spent way too much time on it when I had my shark. I miss the board and the car. I had an 5 speed 16v, so I didn't have to worry about either TBF (reducing risks like the 99 model) But then, I went a little overboard and after I had all the maintenance caught up, I added a supercharger. If I end up with a 996, I don't see too many performances mods in the future. I think I'd be happy just keeping it running. ​​

Well sir, I don't know anything about the perf mods. Before you head down that road, drive a 996 in anger on some windy roads and see what you really need for go-fast mods. Trust me, there are plenty of things you can do to them. Chips, exhaust, M030 susp, bigger MAF, etc. All it takes is money. But - unlike the 928, when you push the go-fast pedal in the 996, and get the tach moving - you won't be disappointed.

Chances are the car is going to be fine. But risk of blowing the engine is real. If that happens, you easiest way out is selling the car for $4K as roller and walking away. But test drive one and see if you find anything that comes close to the performance and feel for the money. That's the nail in the coffin, you do that and you wouldn't writing this post. It would be a hey I'm new owner post. I think you're going to go look at it despite what you read. So... See if you can get the records and see if the necessary maintenance has been done. At this stage, there's a good chance it'll need shocks (do the bounce test), new suspension bits (listen for clunks over bumps on test drive), water pump (every 4 years), coolant tank and thermostat (look for yellowing - also look for oil in there -walk away if you do), clutch / flywheel (slipping on drive, excessive chatter beyond slight 1 st gear rattle), engine mounts (one tail pipe sagging lower), brake pads and rotors (look to see if rotor is recessed compared to the lip), AOS (smoke on cold start, but smoke can mean other things - walk away). My cats just went at 36K miles (listen for rattling on cold starts and drive it till fully warm which 20 - 30 minutes and see if you hear rattling). Check the tires - expensive!. Listen for tapping or knocking - sign of bore scoring. Al goes well, do the PPI. The IMS pre-qualification procedure covers a lot. Probably won't be able to drop the sump or remove the transaxle, but the others should be doable. Everything you find is negotiating item. I had a Pre-qual done in my PPI a paid at ridiculous price to do it, but I knocked more than double that off the purchase price. If the PPI comes back pristine, do NOT share it with the seller - they can use it negotiate a better deal elsewhere. If you decide not to buy it after all, ask the seller if they want to buy the PPI so you can recoup your cost. Good luck and welcome to the club

I don't drive mine daily, but if I were to I would look at it like this.... You buy one for lets say 15k cash, now take $300/ mo and put it in a separate savings account (if you aren't disciplined enough to keep in your regular account and not spend) this will represent the monthly payment you would be making if you were to go get a Honda Accord to drive around in. This gives you $3600/year for maintenance if need be. Now this won't cover an engine failure but it will cover several other costs that may arise. Look at it this way, if it fails and the engine costs 15k you are 30k into driving a PORSCHE 911 daily instead of 30k into driving a Kia Optima. Just my two cents. I've had dozens of cool cars over the years and this by far is the best toy to date.

Here is a cheap one if anyone is looking.... https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...8QNqUtFJ0fKc4k

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I purchased a VW GTI from them about 6 years ago. Great to work with and I would buy from them again.

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Well said, I completely agree.

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Thank you!

I bought a 996 cabrio with a flood title . Car was awesome no real issues at all . Had a 100k on it . Never had the IMS up grade . No regrets . Lots of bang for the buck .

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Did you sell it? There is one around me dirt cheap because of a flooded title but I am assuming if I want to get rid of it its going to be a hassle...

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I've been looking at that one for a while a it is also in my stomping grounds. I love Cabs, but I think I need a coupe. Nice looking car!

A few things to consider 1) Don't get hung up on a particular one, there are plenty for sale and when it comes to a purchase of this magnitude, do some homework and look at more than 1. 2) I'm not necessarily advocating financing vs. purchasing with cash - but you certainly can finance a 20 year old car, and do it with a very low interest rate. Financially (assuming it doesn't grenade) you should come out better than if you bought a new car and take a huge hit on depreciation. 3) You mentioned you do your own wrenching. If you do have the unfortunate luck that your engine goes out, Porsche recently dropped the price on complete short blocks. That, coupled with the immense amount of online knowledge puts a rebuild in the realm of possibility for a home mechanic. Your estimate of $12k probably isn't too far off though. I'd imagine you could do it for as low as 8 (depending on what went wrong and what is destroyed), but you'd be reusing quite a few parts. You could also search for a used engine and swap it in.