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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHMetal in Oil Filter and Blackstone high Copper
Leading reported evidence
Replace oil and filter
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Oil and filter was changed about 10,000 miles ago.
Leading evidence: 'Replace oil and filter' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check fuel trim values' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
But do want to keep carbs clean but protect for long term storage.
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Suggestion
Isn’t the blackstone analysis recommending increasing to 12,000 mi.?
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Suggestion · Original poster
Yes, now I have the ramps and tools to change the oil myself, I will be doing it more often.
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Suggestion
I'm currently working on a paper discussing this exact topic and the lubricity of fuels as it pertains to our Porsche cars, with a focus on the older models not originally designed to run ethanol fuels.
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Looking at the other threads, seems like the size and number of particles in the filter isn't abnormal and the Oil Report seems to say the same. Can any of the experts here really say there is a problem?
2003 911 cabriolet, about 57,000 miles on the motor. Oil and filter was changed about 10,000 miles ago. This is the first filter I've inspected, so seems I should be doing it more often, right?
Thanks,
--Don
I hate those cSt and SUS viscosity values. Looks like the classic Mobil 0W40 shearing, since they are on the very low end of the range. You live in CA. Run a high quality, Porsche approved A40 oil in the 5W40 flavor, or run the Mobil 5W50. Also get a magnet billet drain plug from L&N Egnineering.
I think you are losing a bearing. The metal looks like a bearing shell fragment and these have copper. If you haven�t already, you will lose your crank, and maybe a rod and damage your head if you keep driving. The distance between the piston and head at TDC is smaller than the thickness of one bearing shell. Lose a bearing shell and the piston will probably hit the head. You are looking at a total tear down if you want to get all debris out. Continuing to drive will damage some more expensive parts.
The short block deal in the other thread would be a good deal for you, maybe. This would be a good test for what the definition is for an acceptable core.
That's piston skirt coating. It peels off and has a ribbed appearance from the machining marks on the piston skirt (and also why it's not flat and is slightly curved). You are going to have scored cylinders, if not already scored. I would also be concerned you have a bad injector that is leaking fuel. I'd check your fuel trim values for FRA and RKAT. Both should be 1.0 in a perfect world.
The wear levels of all the metals are concerning as well.
Yes, now I have the ramps and tools to change the oil myself, I will be doing it more often. Hopefully life will allow more time to drive it going forward
Is this a short fuse bomb? There wasn't that much of the metal/particles and it was a long time to collect them.
TIA,
Thank you for the ID of the particles, I didn't see anything that looked like this in the other threads. There were maybe 1 or 2 other pieces about the same size in different parts of the filter. Does this amount of material actually indicate a problem? Seems the other materials mentioned in the other threads just pointed to manufacturing/tooling excess being dislodged.
Also, how does leaking fuel cause this to get into the oil? The analysis shows little fuel in the oil.
Thanks again,
The previous changes were at the dealer, so not sure what oil or viscosity was used. I put in Mobil 0w40 for this change, but will think about the Mobil 5w50 for the next as usually only drive when it's hot outside.
Thanks,
Bad injectors wash cylinder bores down and if they are leaking, will pool fuel in the cylinder. Fuel is not a lubricant. We've just seen a direct correlation to bad injectors and scored cylinders in non-cold climate cars, so it's something to be aware of.
The way Lokasil works, you have an iron coating (Ferrostan) on the pistons that prevents the aluminum to aluminum contact with the raw (etched) aluminum bores. Once you loose the coating, it's not a question of if but rather when you will have cylinder scoring.
Still not understanding what you're saying here. If the Ferrostan is being compromised by excess fuel from leaking injectors, wouldn't the flakes be blown out the exhaust? I don't understand how it would get into the oil.
Thanks again for the explanations.
It can't make it past the rings. Remember, this is the coating on the piston skirts.
Excess fuel washes down the cylinder bore (fuel is not a lubricant) and will further increase wear.
Could you explain why? If the cylinder scoring has already happened, don't the pistons and/or cylinder sleeves need to be replaced? What will it matter if they become more scored?
So the fuel is passing the rings when the engine is not running and damaging the pistons (skirts) on the crank/rod/oil side of the piston. If that was the case, wouldn't the oil analysis show fuel in the oil?
The scoring happens when the piston skirt coating has failed. That's what happens first.
Yes, we install new aluminum sleeves with NSC plating (similar to Nikasil) and fit new pistons, when rebuilding the block.
It is possible to reuse the original pistons when and if there hasn't been a cylinder failure that damages the pistons. In that case, we have Calico Coatings coat the pistons and set up the bores off the coated pistons. However, new pistons are the best route, we only re-use the original pistons when complying with PCA Club Racing or other customer requirements to retain the original pistons.
I can't believe no one in here has not mentioned running a top end lube like ashless TC-W3 2-stroke oil. Thousands of others have been doing for years in cars that don't even have bore scoring issues, like the M96 does. They do it for other reasons that are a lot less serious. I have been guilty of running left over pre-mix in my 4 strokes many many times over my life. And of course always ran a" boutique" top end lube in my alky race car.( Because alcohol a VERY dry fuel). Seems like a no-brainer for anyone worried about bore scoring.
^^ Today’s fuel does not have the lubricuty that fuel did years ago. For my cars I often add Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant (a couple ounces) at nearly every tankful. Been using it for years. The cars I own don’t suffer from bore scoring but I like the benefits of the Lucas product, also has a fuel injector cleaner.
I’ve been using it in my daily driver 2004 BMW 325i, 219,000 miles with zero drivability issues (original fuel injectors) and very little oil consumption beteween oil changes. Also use it in the ‘84 and ‘95 Porsches.
I'm currently working on a paper discussing this exact topic and the lubricity of fuels as it pertains to our Porsche cars, with a focus on the older models not originally designed to run ethanol fuels. It will be published via the LN newsletter probably next month.
And is my favorite gasoline providing the extra lubricity our cars need in their additive package already?
"According to Shell researcher Ed Nelson, the company’s V-Power Nitro+ claims to add “protection against wear and corrosion to the detergents our gasoline already contains” by adhering to affected parts for better lubrication while keeping water in the gasoline from doing the same for reduced corrosion"
I just gave a talk at Porsche Tech Tactics this weekend in Easton, PA, and we touched on this.
I'm a big proponent with high performance and vintage engines to run a fuel additive with every other tank for fuel. I run Driven Carb Defender in the older cars and Injector Defender in newer cars. Likewise, if cars sit for 30 days or more without use, some sort of fuel stabilizer is a must. The e10 fuels don't have the shelf life of non-ethanol fuels.
QUOTE=Charles Navarro;14812618]I just gave a talk at Porsche Tech Tactics this weekend in Easton, PA, and we touched on this.
I'm a big proponent with high performance and vintage engines to run a fuel additive with every other tank for fuel. I run Driven Carb Defender in the older cars and Injector Defender in newer cars. Likewise, if cars sit for 30 days or more without use, some sort of fuel stabilizer is a must. The e10 fuels don't have the shelf life of non-ethanol fuels.[/QUOTE]
Charles, Got any good links for vintage air cooled applications. I'd like to read up on this.
Charles, Got any good links for vintage air cooled applications. I'd like to read up on this.[/QUOTE]
Specifically on Fuels, I wrote and published this on FB and our newsletter a while back:
http://web-extract.constantcontact.c...bd334eb5e5.jpg
If you check out the LN Facebook account, there a few other articles on oils and such. All good reads. I try to publish mostly technical stuff to our subscribers, rather than spamming daily specials.
Specifically on Fuels, I wrote and published this on FB and our newsletter a while back:
http://web-extract.constantcontact.c...bd334eb5e5.jpg
If you check out the LN Facebook account, there a few other articles on oils and such. All good reads. I try to publish mostly technical stuff to our subscribers, rather than spamming daily specials.[/QUOTE]
Hi Charles, could you please explain the difference between Driven's Carb Defender vs Storage Defender for older carbureted cars? Is it the same formula but a different concentration? The product descriptions I can find seem to suggest this. I'm trying to figure out which to use in a low-mileage situation where the fuel tank has low turnover. I use non-ethanol gas, so, maybe not necessary? But do want to keep carbs clean but protect for long term storage. Thanks.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
