996 c2 as a street car (w/ infrequent track duty)

Hi all, New member here to this forum, but not new to forums. I realize this topic has been covered before generally speaking, but hoping to get some more information and opinions tailored to my inquiry. I have a 2011 mustang gt that is very well prepared which I have had for over five years now. I run the car in DE/TT2 and instruct with NASA. I have had an itch for years that I just can't seem to shake to own a pcar. I have a trailer and newer truck which i tow the car with, so it would not need to be a daily driver or even a comfy street car by any means. I've seen some 996 c2's for sale, some of which are already pretty well prepared for the track and it has me thinking... I am considering picking one up as a street car and maybe take it out to the track if my mustang is out of commission or just once in a while to change it up. I had a 99 miata with some modifications and had a blast on the track with a momentum car that didnt have a ton of power, but would prefer something a little more powerful and also better for the street. Plus, the Porsche looks great when done up just right. I am in North Texas, so it obviously gets pretty hot down here. I am a pretty capable driver, and I do push the cars on the track hard. Is it reasonable to think that a 996 c2 could handle such track duty in this region once in a while, and not be riddled with issues or need to be at the point where it's no longer street-able? The mustang is fully gutted, no a/c or any electronics, roll bar, halo seat, massive cooling upgrades, aero, etc etc. I am not trying to go down that road again, but miss having a car I can take to work once in a while on a nice day or somewhere with the fiance on the weekends. I would want to add a roll bar, some fixed back seats, 6pt harnesses and the appropriate modifications to make it a great dual duty car, if such a thing even exists. I am also considering an e46 or e92 m3. Open to other suggestions as well, of course. This group seems to be intelligent and offer great insight, and I am hoping to be more active on here. I have also considered just buying a 996TT and keeping it solely as a street car if the above idea is just not feasible. I get tired of the intensive track prep, towing the car down, and all of that. I definitely did enjoy driving the miata to the track and back home. A photo of the mustang for kicks: Thanks, Dan

Motor is dodgy and expensive to fix. Many mods are needed for regular track work and they aren't cheap Parts are expensive compared to BMW My opinion, the e46 m3 is the better choice. The brakes are dog****, but with a big brake kit, some decent fluid and making sure the rear subframe is solid, the e46 M3 is quick, cheap to run, and similar in performance. And having just disassembled an S54 motor, they are super simple compared to the M96

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I had a feeling this would be the case. I have actually owned a handful of e36 and e46 m3's, and have seen them plenty around the track. Oddly enough, I haven't seen too many Porsches, and specifically only a couple 996s at the track. I suppose what you've stated above could be why. Thanks for your input.

Great street car though

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The main reason I was thinking 996TT if whatever i pick up is solely a street car is for more power since it's so flat and boring down here. I am from upstate NY originally, so I do miss the back roads, elevation and hills. Also was thinking of a 12-14 CTSV for street duty. I suppose I knew already from past experience that it doesn't usually work to have a street car that can be capable on the track to be pushed hard. The more I think of it, the 996 c2 with some goodies is probably still a joy to drive on the street. I have yet to drive any Porsche, maybe I will look into that first.

My 2 cents...I have an '02 C2 with a 3.8 build that turns ~350 hp, with 6sp and M030. Really fantastic street and autocross car for me. Had a 3.6 with H&R and B8 suspension previously and felt a little down on torque and oomph compared to E46 M3. The 3.8 build can definitely keep up, though. I love how the 996 handles! However, if you can find a sweet, well-maintained 996 Turbo 6sp, you'll never regret it. I recently have seen $25-28k for a nice C2 setup and $45-50k for the TT cars with comprehensive service histories that need nothing. Test drive a couple of each and have fun on the comparo.

There are a bunch of threads on here about using the 996 platform for DE events and some hard core racing. It really all depends on the setup. Deep sump oil pan with improved baffles, full flow filtration, magnetic drain plug and so on are considered necessary. Accusump is also almost a must. They can be driven hard and fast, but if you want to get more than one session out of it, it needs to be prepared right. They are great cars for the money, but be prepared to spend $$$ to get it to track level.

Around here (Chicagoland), there are plenty of Porsches on the track. If anything, they might be the most common when a I head up to Road America, or head to autobahn country club. The E46 M3 my buddy runs on the track has already had the Diff replaced, the transmission replaced, the rod bearings redone, the Vanos rebuilt, and he ended up refreshing the suspension as well. The E30 might be a lot cheaper and more reliable. Its true about the 996 - the engine isn�t suitable for hard core tracking, although some have done so successfully. Many have not. But if you are tracking occasionally, I don�t see a problem with it, as long as you address the oil delivery issues (sucking air in turns and aeration), and as long as you keep coolant temps in check in Texas. The 996 is a great handling car, especially once you learn how to trail brake. Otherwise, with stock street camber/caster/alignment settings, it tends to push into the corners.

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E46 definitely has some issues, but the parts are cheap. there are e46 M3 trannies all over craigslist and ebay for like $1000. Engines are $3500. The motors are dead simple...sure the vanos has issues but they are pretty well known and pretty easy to rectify. Any of these used cars with 60k+ plus miles will likely need some suspension work. And again, parts seem to be cheaper for BMW.

This is what i would tell a friend if he asked. I have driven tons of cars on the street and on the track. No Pcar until I picked one up yesterday in Dallas and drove it back to Austin. Wife approved the 3rd German option in the garage a couple weeks ago. Verdict?. I will ALWAYS own a Porsche and more specifically, a 911, . F***ing brilliant. Full stop. Took it out to the Hill Country this morning and ripped along some beautiful scenery for 2 hours straight. Ferraris are fun. I love the GT-R. The wife's Mercedes can be a good time if I throw it in Sport mode. But, if you want an experience, an event, a goddamn explosion behind your head....and a visceral, mute the radio right now type moment while you melt the road...get in a 911 right now.

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Good idea, driving a C2 then a Turbo will let you appreciate the former & then evaluate the turbo power & added brakes/suspension/width of the latter. C2s can be great fun, mine is very comfortable at speed - the reliable steering feedback & stability of the chassis lends itself to highway cruising. A turbo will give you both a platform for big power and even stock it'll have a torque shove that a C2 just won't approach. The turbo engines are durable enough to take some track days without serious risk, overrevs aren't as big of a deal there either. But a stock C2 will still eagerly cruise at a buck twenty if you have the space. Or a buck fifty. It's capable, it just doesn't have the >0.5g acceleration of the TT. You'd probably learn to appreciate either platform though, it's kind of hard to lose with such a well-designed chassis.

Hoonigan reminded me there's a radio in my 996. I'll probably find the CD I've been missing for 6 months.

I just picked up my 99Mk1 996. I’ve had a GT3 and a Turbo. I know guys are going to slam me here, but I had a member of my local FSR PCA club track a 2000 model for better part of 6 years without issues. He even did double duty with another club member when that member’s car was down. I LOVE this new car and I would love to track it. I have a Porsche 944 racecar and will likely stick with that for instructing when I need a car for those duties, but I can’t imagine a few events hurting them. Sure, motors are expensive. Sure, they go boom. I’ve Seen Mustangs eat those gear boxes, and BMWs, I’ve got two. They’re boring compared to the Porsche. There simply is no replacement. Mike

I suspect most of the people who say you can�t track a 996 have never done so themselves. There�s a lot of �fact� bouncing around the Internet echo chamber, people repeating what they�ve read online, reading only things that reinforce their opinions and biases. The other observation I�d make is that a lot (not saying all) of the people I know that are serious about racing, don�t burn a lot of time on Internet forums. If you want to know if the 996 can be raced, go hang out at some shops where they actually build and maintain race cars, go to events and talk to drivers, that kind of thing. I think you�ll get more usable info that way. Based on the info you posted, you don�t seem afraid to spend money to get a good track car. It looks and sounds like you know what it takes to make a decent track car. if you have the coin, buy a GT3 and don�t sweat it. Your intended use is what they were made for. Otherwise you can definitely prep and campaign any car. GT3 = 3 to 4x cost of C2 TT = 2 to 3x cost of C2 Personally, nothing I�ve ever driven comes close to the overall �experience� of any 911. They aren�t the quickest, fastest, most comfortable, best handling car, but the overall experience of driving them is the best, hands down. It�s probably down to personal preference. If you haven�t driven one yet, you really should before you spend much time wondering if they can be raced. I should probably add that I fully intend to use my 996 as both a nice day driver and a DE car, so my bias is that they absolutely can be used like this. I�ve driven and raced both BMWs and VWs from mild street versions to massively prepped race cars, and I�ll take a 996 over any of them.

It always amazes me how many people on this forum hate on the 996...on a 996 forum! You are a track guy so clearly you have the $$$ to do the car hobby. Get a 996, enjoy it, do the maintenance, and don't worry about it. If it blows up rebuild it. It's a great car. BMW? Yeah from the pragmatic viewpoint it works well....but who turns and looks back at their BMW after parking it and really get's butterflies in their stomach? At the end of the day it's just a German Buick. (That said I have been whipped on the track by a few track prepped BMWs, but hey at least I maintained my dignity). You can lower it and put a bunch of stickers on it but you still have a BMW. I've had the same feelings about Miatas. Sure they can be fun on the track but at the end of the day it's a Miata, yawn. I agree w/ the above post that bang for your buck you can't beat the C2. Just my $0.02. I'm sure I stepped on some toes there.

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^^ I'm sorry Mike, I had to.

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Greetings from Upstate New York, be glad you moved to Texas. I own a 2003 996 N.A. It is not only a great street car but a lot of fun on the track. I continue to upgrade any deficiencies that the 996 has been known for. My next install in GT3 center radiator kit. The 996 can driven.on long weekend trips and still be a fun track car. Gratuitous pics

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Good catch! Hahahaha I track about 30 days per year instructing and racing as well. I didn't buy mine to track it specifically, but I bet it'll end up getting a day or six thrown in for snicks. It's just soooo darned nice to drive hard. Buy one, drive it, enjoy it. OP won't regret it. Mike

Beautiful Mustang, my previous DD was a '15 5.0 that was a full N/A build DD on E85 and some suspension modifications for track. The car went 11.3 in the quarter mile and broke into 2.36's at Sebring. A True "All Rounder" I picked up my 996 after my 5.0 was involved in a wreck in town. Unlike most.. i Love the 996 and I always wanted to own one. I'm in the process of making supporting mods to continue my growth on track with the car. This is my progression and hopefully you'll be able to relate (2 stages) Stage 1: Test - At Sebring - Dead Heat Mustang: Non-PerformancePack '15 5.0 Mustang with power adder mods (455wheel HP), Carbotech XP-12 brake pads, and eibach springs on stock pirelli tires and performance pack wheels - 2:36.86 996: 100% Stock + H&R Sport Spring, Toyo R888r and PFC 08 Brake Pads - 2:36.84 Stage 2: Today - as of writing this afternoon im at Roebling Road Raceway, Savannah GA New mods to 996: Baffled Oil Pan The 996 is a momentum car with a solid amount of power to make it pretty damn dominant on track. At it's peak, I lapped today at 1:25 pace with the Nitto R888r being the limiting factor. I was holding Equal pace to a 100% stock GT350r that was there in a separate run group - As you know, different drivers with different cars render that comparison useless. Cornering forces are too much for the stock "Sport seats" and stock seats for that matter, so I'm in the process of sourcing a Roll Bar (don't spend your hard earned money on a "techquipment" bar if you're going to track your car.. get a real one that mounts into the rear shock towers), OMP HTE-R Seats, Harness, and hans device. That will allow me more confidence to push further into the car in a safe enough environment. After those are added, Sway Bars are next and when my struts wear out.. time for coil overs. After tracking my mustang, i prefer my 996 in every single situation I face on track.

The 996 makes an awesome track and street machine. Ignore the noise from those that don�t have experience directly with the platform in a track settting. Quadcammer is right that the engine rebuild/replacement cost is the biggest negative, especially relative to BMWs of the similar era. The E46 is a great platform, but it isn�t a 996 - feels totally different. I�ve spent some time with Porsche factory drivers and they all love the 996 - it has near perfect ergonomics for the track. Running costs on the 996 aren�t too bad, parts are plentiful, the aftermarket is well established. I have thousands of reliable track miles on my 03 996. Although I�ll probably be selling mine to fund a full race car in a more popular series soon (SP 996 isn�t too popular). Gotta get more wheel to wheel action

I took an E36 in on trade when I sold my 996 race car. My 996 had 12 years and 14,000 track miles on the engine without a hitch. After a 3 day weekend in the E36, I can't recommend them enough for people wanting to DE on a budget. They are a blast. And I sold it a month latter because it's not a 996. I ran a Spec Racer Ford for awhile and sold it a few months ago. Once you get used to a 911, everything else feels like stale. With 265rwhp, I was running 1:21s at Hallett and 1:20's at MSR Cresson. It was so much fun. This year I have a 996TT that is fully tracked out that I'm going to give a whirl and another 996 C2 race car build in progress. I will be at the Apex event at Cresson March 3rd. Drop by if you are around.

Thank you all for the replies, it is greatly appreciated. I had a busy week and am just now catching up on the thread. This 996 is what really peaked my interest in these cars again: https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...t-to-last.html I think at this point I am just going to drive a 996 c2 and maybe a 911TT as well. I am leaning more towards a c2 with some modifications and safety upgrades and just drive it on the street and occasional track day. Like others have said, I am pretty used to maintenance, and upkeep so I would just roll with it as things come up. I probably wasn't explicit, but I do not intend to replace the mustang with a 996 for track duty. Maybe a few years ago before I dumped multiple 996s worth of $ into that car I would start with a different platform. I think a nice 996 would be a blast on the street and track and fill the gap I am trying to cover right now with vehicles in the stable. Thanks again to all, this is a great forum.

Don't get an e9x m3. It's an excellent track car, great for year-round driving and very comfortable and 911S performance. But it's too similar to the mustang. Only way I'd have an S550 or S197 AND an m3 was if the cheapness of the stang drove me nuts (it does) or I was too lazy to re-learn driving techniques between cars. The 996 is a great car with a turd of an engine. The brakes, suspension, chassis all feel like they were engineered for a sports car, not adapted from a cheap sedan like the m3 or compromised for car-show geezers like the stang. Sure, it's not top of the line and was built to a price point, but you don't have silly issues like the e36s and e46s do with chassis tearing or junk brakes you have to drive around or wtf rear suspensions. That being said, I severely limit my 996 tracking to rainy or slow days, because I'm deathly afraid of popping a $10k+ engine but it is much more fun and rewarding on a road course than the m3. Good prep advice here, most points have already been covered. Sounds like you're an aggressive driver and the people that aren't starving their 996 for oil on track are loafing on all-seasons or something. If you want to throw a baffled oil pan in and autox or hpde on summer tires, it's just fine for that. I wouldn't bother with the prep to run slicks or even decent 200TW tires, just too expensive to build for. GT3 control arms are $$$ and you can't get enough camber without them or camber plates, which I refuse to run on a street car. Consummables are cheaper than a e9x m3 by a large margin, unless you blow the motor. 996 tires are cheaper and in easy common sizes, rotors are $600ish for 996 vs $900 for m3, pads are pretty similar for the same compounds, they both use a ton of fancy oil, but the 996 is far harder on oil than the m3 and overheats easier too. LOL at slakker's e36, I've still got one and yeah parts are practically free it's just too... normal, or slow? or easy compared to a faster car.

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Once you drive one, you'll be hooked...mark my words

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Once you pin 3rd gear on the freeway, hit fourth and the m96 howls, it's a done deal. At least, it was for me

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Just want to point out that if one drives aggressively on modern all seasons, they might still have oil starvation. I know I do. I kind of want an E36 for tracking. Seems like a huge value right now.

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Hurry up and buy. E36s around here went from $1500 cars to $3000 cars for anything running halfway decent with huge rust holes and 200k miles. People are scooping them up, and it's not unusual to see a cheaper e36 bought and relisted the same day for $3k+. We're in kind of a stupid market here though, still deals to be had you just have to drive to get them.

My '03 996 C2 is my daily driver but it has seen and will see track time. The GT3 sees more of Homestead, but the 996 is fun down there as well. It is a blast to drive to/from the office, secure in the knowledge if I press the loud pedal a bit more firmly, the scenery will go by at a faster, more exhilarating rate, accompanied by wonderful noise from the orchestra section tucked into the rear end. If an F-150 is silly enough to challenge me, he is toast. Alternatively, if I just poke along at sedate speed, that's fun, too. This car does it all.

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Just not this F-150: You Tube

Unless you do a RWD conversion on the 996tt, go with a C2. Even with everything off, the stability and other electronic stuff will come back on in the turbo if you get a bit too sideways. It will kill your exit speed and fun if you happen to be goofing off or push too hard in right corners and chicanes. It's massively annoying! If you do go with the turbo, make sure the coolant pipes are welded or pinned. If they are not plan on doing that. I had a 40th anniversary c2, went to a 996tt w/KW3 coilovers, drop links sway bars and 500rwhp, but in the end sold it and came back to another 40th. It's just so much more lively and playful. You really get to enjoy it more often and easily compared to the turbo. A 40th ae is a good one to look at if you do want to go do some track days here and there. They come with a limited slip, which was not available as an option after 2000 I think. Also more HP 345 and some extra bits to help with oiling. Check them out and if you realize it's the choice for you let me know. There may be a 40th on the market soon with GT3 control arms, GT3 sway bars, PSS10 coilovers, 997 GT3 seats and more... ;-)

I just picked up a '996 996 C2 for mostly street but some track duty. I have a dedicated race car but trailering it to the track is a pain and it expensive to run so I wanted something just to get out for a DE here and there and also enjoy on the weekends, So much less expensive than a similar 996TT or GT3... Fully prepped and refreshed with new Bilstein B8 struts, mounts, brakes, fluids, major service with coils, LN oil pan, water pump, coolant tank, oil sep, trans rebuild, clutch/flywheel/IMS, third radiator, GT3 brake ducts, wheel bearings, sway bar links, engine and trans mounts, and some other repairs along with new super sports. It feels like a new car ready to rock at 100k miles. Had a blast at the track last weekend, drove it 450 miles home, and just finished cleaning it up for cars and coffee and a cruise this weekend. There is no substitute...

That is awesome. They are so much fun! What tires are you running?

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If you�re asking me, Michelin Super sports in 245/35/18 and 285/35/18 on 9�s and 11�s in gt3 cup spec.

Yesterday I did a bit of paint correction on mine. I've had mine for two full weeks now? Been able to thrash it a couple times on back roads. I'm just blown away by the lack of weight on this thing. My 996TT and my GT3 both felt so much heavier, and less lively. I really loved the 996Turbo, but it was hugely expensive to track and a greater risk to the pocketbook. I bought mine to DD, but It'll definitely see some track time. I'll buy the oil pan upgrade and a few other bits (GT3 control arms), maybe ditch the 19 inch wheels, but otherwise, I'm very happy with this little car.

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Nice. You might try a set of RE-71Rs if you get a chance.

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Now that�s a real setup! Honestly, for my car, the only things I would really want for occasional tracking would be that 3rd radiator, a lower temp t-stat, and a fix for the oil starvation issues.

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That was pretty much the goal but a lot of maintenance and repairs came up along the way on this 100k mile example. I dove in a took care of all of them at once instead of replacing as they fail so I can enjoy the long drives and track events without as much worry. Previous owner left me plenty of things to do but the price was right and I knew about most of them going into the deal... OK, and I got carried away with the wheels.

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Thanks for posting, you and I are basically in search of the same exact thing. Well, it appears you have found it already - and I will just benefit from your experience. I have decided to go with the 996 C2 over the 996TT and feel really good about it. I am not sure when I will pull the trigger, but I will take my time and find the right car at the right time. The car looks great! I am not a big fan of silver anything but your car wears it very well! I think I will also be responsive to the lack of weight, and to be honest, I really don't need the power of the 996TT.. although it is tempting. I'll stay out of trouble easier with the c2

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Thanks, I've heard they are the hot 200tw tire right now. If I was more track focused with this car, that would have likely been the best choice for absolute best lap times at 200tw+. I ran the RE11's when they came out years ago and loved them for a trackable street tire. Really strong outer shoulder that would extend the usable life on the camber challenged cars compared to the michelins.

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I was REALLY close to trading this one in towards a local TT but in the end I couldn't justify double the cost for one that would basically be doing the same thing for me.