Economics: What car can I get for price of rebuild?

Engine economics--My engine just failed, details are posted on another thread... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...d-2000-c2.html Trying to see if it makes sense to rebuild vs. walk away. Seems simple, but I don't know what kind of car I can get for the cost of NOT doing a rebuild plus selling my car as a roller. If I pay for a rebuild, am I getting my same run-of-the-mill, well-sorted Carrera but with a reset on the engine clock? What could I buy to get the same reliability and performance for this price?

Another 996 and do (if not already done) the preventative items on it...

Not necessarily the same performance, but you could probably find one of the following: BMW Z4, C5 vet, Audi S4, BMW 335i, Cayman. All very cool cars in their own respects, but they're not 911s.

You could easily spend 30k on your rebuild. that buys you a lot of car.

Another option is asking your builder how much to make a running and healthy 996 more track worthy. Could be cheaper to sell the roller, buy another 996, and build it up. My needs are different then yours, but I'm thinking about a E90 M3 or E39 M5. I'm not looking to track my car though.

I would think selling as a roller + buying another 996, or dropping in a used M96 would be the most economical ways to go.

A brand new 300 HP Ford Mustang that won't need anything for at least 3 years if not 5 years.

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^^this + e36 M3, e46 M3, e39 M5, b6 S4, S5, C6 vette, 370z, 350z Nismo, Miatas Lots of fun cars but I think you need to spend more $$ to get a better driver's car than the 996. Like a heavily modified 964, 993 or GT3.

One can buy a freshly rebuilt 3.6 for $9,000 - $10,000 (plus shipping and installation) from someone like 9xxMotors in CA. Or go with a low mile used motor for around $7,000 and do some preventative maintenance upgrades. There's no way you need to spend $30k as someone said.

My 2 cents: $15-25K range to start with, higher depending on how much you want to throw at the engine. The cheapest engine you are going to find is a high mileage salvage engine starting around $6k and then you have all the things you should do "while you're in there" IMS bearing, RMS, AOS, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, water pump, thermostat, belts, filters, fluids - call it $3K. Throw in a few thousand for labor and you're up to $12K and you aren't necessarily in any more reliable a vehicle. Lower mileage salvage motor: more money. Rebuild: more money. As I recall, a low end rebuild is $8-10K and the high end is what? No idea $20-25K? So, you could spend a crap ton on a project like this. If your roller is in decent shape, you should be able to get $4-6K, maybe more if you find the right buyer. So you probably would be looking at $16K-30K to spend on an equivalent vehicle. Do you want another 911 - lots of 996 C2 C4 and C4S under $30K. I've seen a bunch of Cayman/Cayman S in that range. You can buy all kinds of cars under that price range, depending upon what you want .

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No core charge? I know my rebuild will be in the $20K USD range maybe a little more and hopefully address lots of the known "failure modes". Even if you take out the $1200 for new crank and $250 for carrier, its still close to that number. I would be interested to know what you got for your $9-10K?

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For me personally, the performance envelope of the 996 is kind of high. Is it more fun to drive a really high performance car 60% or wring the neck of lesser machine? Wish I could have both!

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I said it. I've rebuilt my own motor, myself. Cost me 18k. It could of cost me a lot more depending on the options and work I wanted.

^^and there are a few track prepped 996's on the market right now...

I have already talked to two reputable engine builders in my SoCAL area. For a complete long block (assuming everything bolted to it is ok), cost will be about $15K minus the value of my core. One has the core valued at $6500, but since many parts could be damaged and having a good guess at the mode of failure, the real out-the-door cost is around 10-13K. This is for a basic package including a fee for dismantling and assessment of my core, the cost to rebuild, and reinstallation. Both can recommend or have preset packages for various upgrades (I'm sure sky's the limit) but one has a "Track package" for an additional $3500. I am simplifying a bit about the details, and I am sure I am a bit naive about the scope creep. So, if my car is worth $5K as is, and I don't spend $10K on my repairs, we are talking $15K. Could I buy my car, with a 1-year warranty on a newly rebuilt motor for $15K plus tax, lic, etc?

I could also easily put $15K into my '68 912, but I still probably wouldn't drive it or take it to the track.

I would take some time to do some research. Many of the things discussed on this board RE: rebuilds scratch the surface IMHO. Aside form the bearings, bores, chains and gaskets, what about the oil pump(s)? When guys here talk about engine rebuilds and heads rebuilt for $1,200, what is being replaced? A set of lifters is $2,000 for a 3.6. And with your mileage, I'm sure the guides, then seats, will need to be replaced and machined. And much more. You can rebuild an engine that will work past the warranty period, but if you want one that will last as long as the first tour of duty, I think you need to do some research on what really needs to be done. Not trying to discourage you, just saying its not so simple.

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You can buy decent 996 coupes that will run, drive and look nice for mid/high teens to low twenties all day long. It is six of one, half dozen of the other. If you love your current car, the rebuild path makes sense, otherwise I don't think there is a compelling reason to go the rebuild route.

They are all dying a slow death, just a longer use period than a factory track car.

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Do you know if they use iron sleeves for the rebuild? The reason I ask is with 150k miles, the cylinders will be all ovaled so fitting new rings in won't work well so they would need to somehow address this issue.

These are all good questions. I really need research the build proposal if I do go that route. I am hoping that the recommendations and reputations of the engine builders I talked to are worth something though.

this is not going to be well received, but here goes. Logistically I would not go back into the 996 engine at all. Why expose yourself to the same thing again? Based on that, and knowing that it is not a popular sentiment you'll have ~$12-18k into rebuilding and install of your 996 engine. So lets say your roller chassis is worth about $6k, and adding that to your cost to rebuild puts you in the $20-26k region. I have not(and will not) be paying for any kind of 996 rebuild, but prices seem all over the place. If it were me, and in that place I'd sell the roller and look for a Honda S2000 which has gobs of perf and remarkable reliability, or add a few bucks and grab up a Lotus. https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...delCode1=S2000 https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Code1=LOTELISE

That's very rational. But if we were rational, none of us would've bought a 15+ year old temperamental German car to begin with! Question is, did he get it out of his system or does he want to stay on pain train. Despite my griping, it still hurts so good for me.

I�m pretty sure you can buy a brand new M96 engine for $32k. Granted it�s not track prepped - but something to keep in mind if you�re considering doing a crazy expensive rebuild.

An underloved car in the 20k range is the Maserati coupe with the Ferrari V8. Pretty cool platform with a comfy interior.

If the goal is to track the car, the BRZ is very popular. If the goal isn't to track the car, put the money into your 912.

I had one engine failure on an M96 but was able to rectify it cheaply with a good used 3.2. That said, for the cost of a good m96 rebuild (which still doesn't eliminate all the problem areas), you can get something that should hold up much better to track use. I am also strongly considering moving away from the Porsche platforms for a DE car and looking to a C5 Z06. There are cars, albeit with higher miles, that are already track prepped for the cost of a well built M96. If you sell your roller, you'd be out of pocket probably $17k. Definitely something to consider.

Shameless plug here..... You could buy my running but high mile 3.4 and do ims, rms, tensioners and run it.........for less than a core.

several different path and I think have to identify a few points first. Just say the rebuild will cost 15k for a rebuild of the same M96. 25k for a rebuild with the weakness addressed and 35k to have a track ready engine. (All 3 price point are fictional and just ball park from some figures being thrown around on this site). Path: 1. Will you be Tracking as the main purpose? If yes, your cost of rebuilt is 35k and thrown in your roller. Or you go with M3, Miata, S2000, 86 or other purpose built car. Personally I would go with a cheaper alternative unless with the 35k its sponsored and I am very competitive. Or if the pocket is deep... 2. Daily drive with 1 or 2 track days a year or every other year. Then you are looking at 25k for a rebuilt with all weakness addressed. Put this back in your roller and enjoy. Personally, this is probably something I am more willing to do and at 25k, its not like you can easily find another 996 that has all the problems addressed or find another car that quite drive like it. Sure you can still go with a Camero, Vet, older M3 at that price range but when I first bought my 996, I already decided the driving dynamic is more fun and special to rule the other ones out at this prince range. 3. Chuck a rebuild engine at 15k back in the roller. My least favorite option and at this point, might as well just sell it as a roller and add the 15k to find another 996 or pick another vehicle because the motor still have all the weakness that you have right now. you can certainly roll the dice and hope the lightning don't strike twice but this option would make sense if you are just gonna daily drive and bar hopping in the car. Of course these are just my opinion and I think it is semi rational and semi irrational...

I think the 15k, 25k, and 35k scenarios is a good way to put it. I think the lower cost rebuild is not much better that a decent used engine meaning you are on borrowed time. Reason being, where I depart a little, is I think it's not so much the design "weakness", it's that the internals don't seem to have been built to last. The cost of the upgraded parts is dwarfed by the cost of all of the parts you need to replace (taking you to $25k). 996s are similar to the low cost printers that use up expensive consumables. Irrationally, I have and I will keep rebuilding. But I don't think I'd be more irrational and rely on a shop to do the rebuild. If you can do most of the work yourself, the above costs become more palatable. Surprisingly, the case is easy and the costs are reasonable. The heads, to be done right, is very parts and labor intensive.

I am really thinking if I want to regularly track a car, the 996/M96 may not be the right platform, for me anyway. I fell under the spell of believing a Porsche was as comfortable on the track as it is for a daily driver--silly me. I did speak to a gentleman from Vision Motorsports in Orange County, CA, and he says he has confidence in his motors, even if you take them to the track, as long as you get the upgrades and do the testing and monitoring he suggests. It's not cheap, and you can't abuse, over-rev, not maintain the motor, etc. and expect him to honor a warranty, but it sounds legit. I think there can be a lot of debate over the mode of failure and what measures can be taken to protect a M96 motor, but in my case, the simplest explanation was user error--I overfilled the oil, probably over-revved the engine too many times, and drove the $#!t out of a 18-year-old engine, plain and simple. It was a moment of weakness. I really hate for my stupidity to further the car's bad reputation. So, as I move into the acceptance stage of grief, I am definitely going to think about what kinds of track driving I want to do in the future. The reality is for the few times a year I expect to be able to go I can't justify having a separate vehicle just for the track, but a reliable daily driver with style and track performance probably doesn't exist off the rack--in my price range at least. I just hope I don't end up with a Prius.

I have worked on my 912, but that engine is WWII technology. Engine can be dropped in an hour with no lift. My wife has seen me with the 912 and thinks I should just do the same to the 996, but I know my 912 isn't all it can be, and I don't have the space, time, or tools to turn my garage into a Porsche shop. The engineer in me does think I should just pull the M96apart and see how it works--what harm can I do now?

Take a look at the SCCA leaderboards to see which cars are competitive. The Miata, of course, is the favorite of autocrossers and gender-fluid hairstylists, but you can do some pretty serious damage with a $5-10K Corvette (and a couple grand worth of track upgrades). LS7 short blocks start at $5-8K...

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I should do an LS swap and have my own YouTube channel about it--I'd make a fortune. Seriously, I think I need to do some Autocross and slower-paced DEs and learn to drive a line without blowing up an engine.

Smooth is fast. I dunno if smooth = reliable engine though.

I think people forget how expensive tracking and/or racing really is. The thing to consider with engine failure in general for street Cars is that you probably won�t find a better car to drive for the money. The logic that you won�t get your money out of the car by rebuilding or replacing the engine is only partially true. If a roller is worth $7k, and engine is $20k, and a used 996 can be had for under $20k, don�t forget that some folks will pay a premium to buy a 996 that�s had an engine rebuild or other major work done. That same 996 that would have sold for $18k might now sell for $23k. That $20k engine cost just dropped to $15k, and remeber, if you actually drive the car for the next 5-10 years, you will continue to lose less and less money on that �investment� of an engine rebuild due to the simple utility of having a car like a rebuilt engine in a 996. And it�s possible that values could actually go up in 5-10 years. If my engine explodes, selling my car as a roller would be the worst financial decision I could make on my car. The reason is because it�s not guaranteed that the replacement engine will also fail. In fact, it�s quite unlikely. So I would be gambling yet again that any money put into this new engine would retain some value, and I�d be much higher than 50 success rate (most 996 engine don�t fail at all). The key is to pick the right investment approach. Find some compelling engine that would seem appealing to a future prospective buyer. Maybe IMS solution or a rebuild that addresses the issues of the M96. Resale for unique and thoughtfully built 996s can be much higher than regular old 996s.

Honestly, I can't think of any modern car that would be good dual use street and track, that is - if you are pretty serious about the track habit. I do know how expensive it can be, and trying to keep a street car up to track standards is a messy job. Pains me to say, but I think I'd go with the advice above, and just get some form of Corvette for track use only. Plastic body panels, GM engine and parts. GM trans and parts, GM this, GM that. Plenty of parts, knowledge etc. If you want to keep a 996, that's fine - but no more tracking it. Get an old GM truck and car hauler and just leave the Corvette on it for your yaya time.

If I didn�t have separate vehicles for family hauling and needed to pick one car that does lots of stuff pretty well, including drivers events, I think an M3 would be in my garage.

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C5 z06. Parts are cheap, 385hp, and well defined mod list for track. Available for similar cost as 996

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Ok, but, 2 sears versus 2+2. If 2 seats are OK, I agree, there are more options out there. Even a Boxster would be more economical than a 911. But your C5 example is pretty compelling.

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Funny you mention a Mustang. I recently drove a 2017 Mustang GT with 435 HP and the price was just over 27k with about 60 miles on it. I didn't buy it but was tempted. The interior was not like my 911, but it had plenty of power and handled well.

I echo what Murphylaw said. Track is expensive... I had some choices years ago between tracking my S2k or my motorcycle. I ended up deciding to keep my S2k daily and track my bike but it is still very expensive. The idea of owning a car that can pull both duties usually mean compromise and not doing either one well. So the real question is how dedicated are you to 'Track'. The way I see it, if you are a competitive person, give up the idea of daily your track car. Get a dedicated track car and spend money to go fast and hone your skill. Tires go a long way and suspension tuning are probably where you want to spend a lot of money and time on. This is where even Miata can be very competitive in a shorter track versus some higher power machine. Driver skills also make huge difference, my time from begining of the year to end of the year on my bike was mind boggling... I assume people who dedicate time on AutoX or Track goes through similar thing through a season. If you want a daily drive and just have some fun track day once in a while... 996 can do that, just to have fun and be able to stretch the legs of the car on the track. Spend the 25k for a rebuild engine with some weakness addressed, you be happy for a while. As for redline... just shift at 6500 when you do track days. The edge of that last 500 rpm is probably non-existence when you are not doing competition. It leave that 500 rev as your over rev area and you wont hit redline. Well for that matter, make mental note to shift at 6000 and that give you even more room to over rev... You be surprised as you are more comfortable and going through corner at faster and faster speed, your lap time will drop faster than trying to redline every gear to squeeze every bit out of the engine.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth (probably nothing). I have a C4S, did one track day with it, enjoyed myself, spun off, ripped off front lip and had a couple scratches from the cones. No big deal, to rectify cost a bit but nothing too much. Second track day in my 4S, the AOS blew. Repaired it and decided this isn't quite the platform to play with. Bought a $600 BMW E46 325i, did minor mods that nets the car in SCCA STX. Have autoX'd and tracked it. It isn't fast in straights, but it is reliable and cheap to run (and tons of fun). My PCA instructor liked it. It isn't built with the best of things, it was an experiment in smiles per dollar factor and I've succeeded, with Brembo BBK up front, Tien SSP coilovers, Powerflex bushings throughout, Kosei K1s, Hotchkis front sway bar, E46 M3 front seats, and Federal RSRRs, the car is neutral and fun to drive. It isn't a looker but it gets me to and from events in comfort with AC. I liked it so much I just started a E36 M3 DE project that will go further with higher quality parts. Now if you need a car to do it all for 15K... Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS/Toyota 86 E36 M3 (the E46 is faster, but they need a little more love engine wise to make them bulletproof) Corvette C5 ZO6 (seriously great car all around, fit and finish leaves much to be desired, but performance wise great bang for the buck). S2K (but its quite small and mods can be expensive, front rotors tend to crack so most guys swap them out for events and then swap back to their street set) Evolution/STI (both great and can be found for that money, but they will be beat, both need some minor upgrades to keep them cool and happy in hot climates) Miata (any gen) E46 ZHP (cooling systems have to be done, vanos has to be rebuilt, SAP delete if you can, and an LSD will go a long way) There are many more, but these are some of the most popular that I have done research on. You can track anything, E39 M5s, Camrys, Genesis Coupes, heck there is even a Volt that comes to autoX and has expressed willingness to do DEs. I know how a project can snowball and can foresee a rebuild costing upwards of 25K if you'd like to address every single thing. Is it worth it, only you know the answer to that.

If you’re only tracking a few times a year, why use your own car at all? You can rent a track car. Sure, it’s expensive, but I bet you could afford quite a few events for the price of any of the cars you’re considering.

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But what if it was this Prius? You Tube

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I love and hate it at the same time...

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I priced a Miata for like $1400/day. It was just too much to make sense

I think I can rent a Kia Rio from Enterprise for about $30/day, live out my "reasonably priced car" fantasies. Slow car fast! It actually works like this: I blow up my car, I get my 15-year-old family hauler, my wife gets a new Audi Q5. I wonder if she will let me take it to the track?

If you've bonded with the car, and are happy with cosmetics/condition of the vehicle, fix it and enjoy. For me, I am a detail guy. I've been looking at what I can afford along with what I knew I could pay immediately to fix every mechanical flaw with what I bought. I saw a ton of 996's for 15-20k that would have me spending stupid money on cosmetics and mechanicals to get it to a point that I'd be happy with. So, I bought a 996 C4 in pristine condition garage kept for its life in SFLA. 61K miles. Paid 22.5K. Looks like nobody ever sat in the passengers seat, maintained by Porsche dealerships according to car fax, blah, blah, blah... The previous owner has been restoring the car as I can tell. Paint was sprayed on half the car, but done the right way - glass & molding removed, excellent paint match. Can tell no accident's from 3 "experts" looking at car as no bolts/parts appear to have been ever removed. Previous owner had been replacing trim pieces. Rims were refurbished the correct way. You can eat off the engine bay. Crazy to see a 16 year old car in this condition but I knew going into this a lot of mechanicals needed to be replaced since mechanicals were original. So I budgeted based on previous research for: Rotors Pads CV Boots, inner & outer Tie Rod Ends Lower Control Arms Spark Plug Tubes (source of leak I knew about) Coils Plugs IMS Bearing Cam Plug Crankshaft Seal oil Separator Serpentine Belt Along with other things not mentioned. Clutch was replaced before me. I was very involved with tear down so I can vouch for my statements. So now I have a 30K 996 that looks new and runs great. I don't plan on selling it. I have a daily beater for work when I go to the office (200+mile trip). Yes I am blessed I could afford to do this. But for me, for the $$ I spent, having this solid of car to enjoy, has been a great experience. Next up is suspension upgrades, possibly Fabspeed performance package and a killer sound system. Being an audio nut, sound will be my biggest expense on this car. The fun of a car is not just owning it. For me, it a deep routed passion. As far as I am concerned, I am the custodian of this vehicle for now. Whether or not the value goes up or down on this fried egg is of little concern to me. I am having fun with it and THAT'S what this hobby is about.

WHy would it need a restoration or paint with only 61K in miles? Repaint would be a red flag to me.

Because original owner couldn't stand rock chips on front bumper/hood and front quarters. Interior parts because parts got scratched or sticky.

So the verdict on my car is not good. It will need a new crank, new pistons, new cylinders, bearing carrier, and oil pump, at minimum. But, apparently this is an opportunity to increase the cylinders to 99mm or 101mm for a nominal cost compared to bringing back to stock. Would a 996 with a rebuilt, larger-than-stock engine have any value in a few years?

The recent opinions in literature generally read favorable to the 996, but I think the supply of 996's is still too large to have meaningful appreciation in the next few years...maybe few decades.. Just my opinion. That being said, a couple of FSI cars sold for a premium on BAT (relative to comparable cohort). $19K for a project car in need of work and $25K for a 133K mile MY2000 (Slakker's). I doubt either of these sellers broke even at the end of the day. Slakker's auction referenced a $18K FSI cost. That being said, it would probably go a long way if the rebuild was thoroughly documented with pictures, etc. Top dollar will likely not be had unless you change the IMS/RMS - cant' remember if you need that done. Good luck.

I will never break even on this car--that boat sailed long ago, and I am not concerned too much with depreciation. I am mainly concerned with resale in a few years if I go ahead and rebuild and do some upgrades. I never seem to see rebuilds advertised, and at this point there would, and should, be no hiding that the engine was rebuilt. I am wondering if having a rebuilt motor, even if it is a quality one, actually devalues the car. To me, since the engine is THE major item on the car that causes so much uncertainty, having a freshly rebuilt original engine should be worth more than my original high-mile engine, at least. FSI obviously does great work, and seems to add value to a otherwise unknown car, but they are a long way from home. I feel lucky to have found a couple of local shops in the SoCal/Long Beach area that I could work with more directly. But Porsche buyers are brand conscious, almost by definition, and selling this car will be a nightmare as it is without defending a rebuild .

Obviously I don�t represent the rest of the buyers. Just 1 in the data point. When I was looking, I was specifically looking for either dual roll bearing or a rebuilt with either ims solution or the 997 larger bearing. Having a rebuilt didn�t bother me. Tons of air cooled are rebuilt at this point. Not that I worry much about appreciation because Car shouldn�t be an investment for the most part. As far as picking a rebuild, if it ever comes to that point it�s 3.8 or 4.0 for me. While you are spending the money for rebuild go ahead and improve the performance like getting a new car. Make the money more worth it sort of speak. I think I read someone else shares the same sentiment like this.

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If you use Callas Rennsport to rebuild/upgrade the motor you'll get about the same re-sale as you would with FSI (Jake Raby and Tony Callas teach classes together and are both considered M96 Gurus and both use LNE parts as well as others in their rebuilds). You won't go wrong with a motor from either of those shops - it'll be done right with the right parts, and you'll pay dearly, but it'll be worth it in the long run. What'd the Meineke guy used to say? "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later"...

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Thats too bad. But any improvements you make to your engine - if done well - could prove to retain a bit more value.

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doubt it. I have a C4S LNE 4.0 that has been for sale locally for 30kUSD. crickets. fix this car based on how much you love driving it. Not how much money you can get back. You will never get it back and I don't care how many people here says the value of a 996 will go up. They are crazy imo

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Fair, but what was it worth before? Or what did you buy it for? There�s a saying in economics: �a good low purchase price is an asset half sold,� but not everyone buys cars with that thinking in mind.

I bought it for 24kCDN. Selling for 40k CDN. ​​

Reputable rebuilds have been shown to increase resale over a stock car, but the premium seems to be around $5k, with those asking more sitting on the market.

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yeah, not anywhere near what it actually costs for a rebuild.

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So even though you haven�t closed the sale, there�s still quite a bit of equity in there you can recoupe.

I think given the condition (I'm told a 7 to 8 out of 10), options (minimal) and mileage (154k) my car as it sat was worth about $10-$13K. Now it is worth...who knows? I see $5-$6K come up, but finding a buyer would be tough. I am already in for $1500 just for the teardown and estimate, which would go towards the rebuild, but I am looking at about $18,500 for the engine that I want and other while-your-in-there stuff. I could go a little cheaper, but that wouldn't save me much, and I could go more expensive, but that wouldn't buy me much more that I would use. $18,500 sounds a little steep, even for a well-sorted 911 with no miles on its somewhat upgraded engine. May simply not be worth it.

High mileage, base model car...after rebuilt it will be worth $15k-$17.5k. If you are concerned about resale in a few years, dump the car. 997s will start coming down in price even more by then, and your high mileage 996 will be towards the bottom of the picking order.

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+1

I would think that a RND engine would have a reasonable resale benefit and be a very good engine . Jake and Charles have a excellent track record and use a fact based approach . Your original question was what can I get for the cost of a rebuild -not much that compares favorably to a 996 .It is a great platform even with high miles .With a robust engine it is a good car .

I think the real question is how long you plan to keep the car. If resale value is relevant then you don't plan to keep the car, I'd say sell as roller and move on. If you love the car, look around for a sorted 996/997 with a proper rebuilt engine (by reputable source with most if not all weakness addressed) will probably be about 25k give or take. That's about the same as your roller + the 18.5k you are going to spend on rebuilt AT THIS POINT IN TIME. I will not speculate the future value of the car because truth is, who knows? This should not be used to determine if you want to rebuild or not. Personally, if I am doing the rebuild, do it right and not nickle and dime it. Make sure the engine last the next 20 years or another 150k miles then it would prevent me from going after the TTRs or another 60k+ cars then I consider a good financial decision

I can�t find a car that I really want to drive everyday for used Porsche 996 money�used engine, motor rebuild, whatever. The next step up to a 997 or Turbo is a bit too high for me right now. And maybe driving a 996 as a daily isn�t the right thing to do anyway. If I don�t get my 996 fixed, I will probably be done with these cars for a while.

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That's what I spent to DIY. USD $ => $CDN killed me ($18 cdn)

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^^this. Especially if resale in a few years

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I think daily drive is ok... track is another story.

Plenty of good 996's out there with less than 100K miles under $20K...Sell the roller and get another 996 (don't track until you address the weak points) and daily drive it.

I don't think I'd be up to buying someone else's 996 right now. I did an insane amount of traveling, inspecting, and haggling just to get the car I have now--some folks love hunting on this front, but I got a bit burned out. I have also spent several thousand dollars, time and a lot of bloody knuckles fixing up my car, mostly on little cosmetic things, but all the major service items are done. If I could spend $18-$20K on another 996 vs getting mine back with an upgraded, rebuilt engine with less worries, I would choose to rebuild. I am really trying to consider my 996 experience as a whole and trying to see if it is worth it. The car drives amazing, is insanely solid for a 18-year-old, and feels better to me than any other car at this price point--I think. But it is an old, unloved platform in general. People have a lot of preconceived notions about Porsche and their drivers, and I find myself telling the story of this car constantly. And despite the recent positive press, the car and Porsche community still hates these cars. And the sound system sucks! I just don't know if I would pull myself out of bed at 5AM on a Sunday morning to drive a used Subaru BRZ through the canyons, or have the energy to sort through an old BWM. My investment and obsession with Porsche is too much.

eh, I'd think pretty hard about a nice E46 M3

^^I agree with a lot of this. I've spent dozens of hours working on my 996 to either troubleshoot issues, refresh parts, or upgrade the interior with OEM parts. It's now my 911.. reliably predictable & exciting to drive. Enjoyable to cruise in, and overall something I plan my schedule around (can I go for a 100 mile drive this week or next? can I stretch today's drive to go a bit farther north? what part of the car should I investigate refreshing next, maybe suspension bushings!?). It's a lot of fun to engage in that process and see the evolution of the car. And it's a cheap entry price. Other cars just don't have the same character or appeal on an ongoing basis, so here I am. e46s are cool and I'd love to have one in the future. But they seem much less customizable & more of a standard coupe.

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read up on the e46's subframe issue. I stayed away after looking up at what it takes to beef it up...

I've been searching for a 911 regularly for about 4 months now and you're not going to find a well sorted one for $18k. You will be MUCH better off having a freshly rebuilt car. If I buy a nice 996 for $20k I will still have to put out another 3-4K on replacing all the major parts as a preventative care. It was your fault for screwing up your car on the track without proper prep so just take it to the chin and move on. If you love your car, rebuild it by a good mechanic to your specifications and daily drive it til the wheels fall off.

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I think that's pretty harsh to say IMO. This is from a guy who's tracked a few different brands of car and made the move to porsche because he understood that pcars were ready for the track more so than other cars.

I agree. It was definitely my fault for taking a high miler out to the track, and not doing track prep. I honestly didn�t think I�d push it so hard�but I did. I love these cars, and actually enjoy learning about, troubleshooting, and fiddling with them�but, like everything, there are downsides and trade-offs. This is the last generation, maybe 997, that I would feel comfortable playing around with. I love Air cooled, but they are too precious. Transaxle cars scare me a bit. The 996 is a sweet spot for performance, affordability and tinkering. But as others have suggested, there are definitely other options.

its not your fault, the motor is just junk.

Guys, I honestly wasn't trying to be harsh, that was never my intention. Having a blown motor is devastating and I would never wish this upon anyone. I feel the pain just like the next guy on this thread but my point was to not resent or hate your Porsche for what had happen. I sense that you still love your car so I think the best thing to do is rebuild it to make it better than it was new and enjoy it for many many years. It's the best way to come out a head from this situation IMO.

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lol

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Sorry to say but essentially you don't have a rebuildable core. A new crank is like $4k? A used one is a gamble....also need a matching IMS. A new crank carrier is $2.6k... May as well get an RND enigne.

Wouldn't the RND engine be closer to $30K with a bad core? Plus he'd have to install it himself or pay someone to do it on top? Sounds like the rebuild he got quoted was $18.5K. Also, is the RND track worth as is? OP, if this isn't going to be a daily, couldn't you just invest in your air cooled to make it better for twisties and track days?

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Best is to check with LN. They are just a phone call away.

I did call LN about their sleeves, but I also called RND about their engines. Indeed, they would not credit my crank, which is over $4k. There are a lot of other builders who can find cranks within spec that can be checked. RND explicitly told me that you can use a refubished crank, but they don�t�but they ware unclear if they were using used, only that they are in spec. I didn�t dig much further. I could easily spend $15k+ on the engine in my 912, and it would get a few more hp. That car is really my wife�s�she grew up in that car�her dad was the original owner�so turning it into a track monster is frowned upon (even though I am certain her dear would have approved) Maybe if I could just get her to do HPDE....

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That, and my buddy had to replace his differential, and supposedly needs a new transmission now. He ended up replacing his suspension and said that if he�s going to track, the rod bolts and vanos will need work. All I�m saying is, Old German car is an Old German car. They could all cost money.

Reinforcing the e46 rear subframe is no big deal, especially if you can diy the removal of the subframe and diff. m3s arent without fault, but with rod bearings and vanos done, neither of which requires the engine out, you should be in business.

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I know how you feel. I would love to take to my wife's bike out to the track, but she's not having it. Thing is, my wife's bike is already built for the track, such a tease.

Did you decide something yet? Here's something that might help https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-for-sale.html

I have been out of the loop for a few days--just bought a little daily driver and am trying to reassess priorities. I'll look into this.

To bad, this was a perfect opportunity for you!

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I think you answered your own question. You took the time to research and buy a platform that you have enjoyed, so don't worry about resale, just invest and enjoy for as long as you want!

We have done replacements, rebuilds, and track builds and right now we actually have a 2003 996 6 MT with 79k miles and brand new LN IMS, clutch, flywheel, service, Michelin tires, ready to go for under $28k. We could add a PMNA AOS to that along with a baffle for piece of mind. Generally speaking, baffles are only necessary with slicks and the stock AOS is not adequate for a track day but,I will refrain from offering an opinion on what happened to your engine over the internet just like a doctor wouldn't diagnose you over the phone because there is no way to accurately diagnose anything without seeing and "testing" it.

I share the OP concerns of the economics of repairing a 996 as I too have had to wrestle with this. I love the 996. It is a perfect fit for me. Simple. Fun. Special. However, the engine (along with it's 32 weak points) is nearly the entire "worth" of the vehicle... and the repairs are astronomical. It saddened me to see my favorite car loaded on a flatbed going to scrap. I am determined not to have that happen again. My solution is to buy the same platform (a 996), but one with a more reliable motor. One that would still have value, even if there were expensive repairs. One that I would (hopefully) not scrap for economic issues (because it would be dumb to put 25k into fixing a car worth 15k). A gt-3 is out of the question because of the price. But, the 996tt are quite reasonably priced. I was able to find a low mile black cabrio (just like the one I lost) at very little "extra" expense. Best of all, if it does break, then I won't feel guilty about the economics of fixing it.

I ended up selling my roller on Craigslist, with my engine in a dozen boxes, to a guy who was super happy to get a clean straight, simple, well-sorted car as a good project. Honestly, selling with the engine in pieces was probably easier than selling a running car since there were no questions about the motor. I dreaded the thought of selling a used, running M96 engine. I sold the car for about $3800 less than I paid for it--not bad as far as depreciation goes--but that doesn't count all the little maintenance stuff I put into it, or the new tires, or the books, manuals, Durametric, etc. But I got a lot of enjoyment out of the car, and the next guy will have a solid foundation for a good project--whatever that might be.

Sounds like a good outcome! What's next?

I think that's about a good of an outcome as you could've hoped for. If you miss bloodying your knuckles on the 996, I could certainly use the help.

I'm going to make my '68 912 a little more fun; nothing permanent, maybe some sport seats, a Momo wheel (I'll preserve the originals), tires, and a suspension rebuild. And my new VW GTI will maybe get a tune at some point as well, or maybe not--it's no 911, but wow this little car really does a lot. Same weight and torque as my 996, but has 5 seats and a glove box. . . Yes, I sold out. Talking to my former 996 engine builder, he suggested that if I have an itch for racing I should look into go-karting. This is what he does, and he can rebuild a 996/997 engine any day of the week. Maybe not a bad suggestion, and my kids could do it with me.

The GTI was on my short list before the 996. It's a great car. I often wonder how much easier my life would've been if I had just gotten the GTI.

Ditto, but Golf R in my case. GTI's are amazing little cars, nowadays, in terms of bang/buck ratio. In hindsight, now that I'm not going to buy either, I'd have a GTI over the R.