The Ultimate Preowned 996 Buying guide.

With prices dropping down to right around reasonable for the preowned 996, I decided to prepare a write-up about finding one and what to expect. The first thing to remember before even thinking about buying a Porsche 996... ...understand that the 996 brand new was a $70K to well over $100K vehicle. Parts and repairs ARE and can be quite expensive. After all, this is not a Camry. With that said... ...I hope this helps folks out there find their dream car. The 996 Buyer's Guide: So...you are interested in finding a 1998-2004 996 911 Carrera. Since there are many of these out there, here are some factoids and things to note when finding your car. Before you begin reading, understand this was written by one enthusiast for another. I did my best trying to find accurate information, but more is always available. I will be updating if new information becomes available in the future. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_996 The model line-up: Since this is a non-turbo forum list, we will keep it that. Normally aspirated. Here are the cars that fall into this category: U.S. Cars: 1998-2001 MkI 996 Carrera 2 & Carrera 4 (3.4L flat six motor with 296hp-300hp) 2002-2004 MkII 996 Carrera 2, Carrera 4 & Carrera 4S (3.6L flat six with 320hp) 2004-2005 MkII 996 Carrera GT3 (3.6L flat six with 380hp) Side note: Some Special Edition 996's were created. The 2004 40th Anniversary is an excellent example as is the 2000 Millenium Edition. Special models often bring higher prices due to the short production runs. Also, consider that some options are more difficult to find than others. Sunroof delete (only 3 cars known at this point in the U.S.), limited slip differential, and the X51 powerkit (2002-2004 only) are good examples. Common Model Options to Look For: 1. Tall folks - If you are not into tracking your future 996, look for the following interior - Supple leather seats with full power. These seats have a slightly bit more depth to them due the softer, more plush materials. Believe me, I have tried everything. 2. Full Leather Interiors - Many found the early interior materials to be inferior. The factory's remedy was the Full leather interior. And I have to tell you, these interiors are simply stunning. This option was available on all MY's of this car. Every surface, including the A-c pillars are covered. It is truly worth every penny. HOWEVER - upkeep on this interior is substantially more work. The leather must be protected from drying out and cracking. If you are up for the challenge it is worth it. 3. Limited slip - It is out there, but will take some searching as there are not that many out there. The 996 C2 was the last model in which you could get a limited slip differential on the standard 911. Presently, you can only get the LSD on the GT3 / GT3RS model. 4. Sunroof delete - I am one of the lucky ones with this option. This is extremely rare and hard to find. It took me 6 years to find mine and in that 6 years, it is the only one I found. There are indeed others out there, but truly a tough one. In my opinion....worth EVERY penny. 5. Sport Seats - A very nice addition to any interior. The sport seat offers perforated leather and a wider back rest. They are very comfortable and offer a bit more support. Early versions have manual sliders and powered back rest. Later versions come in all flavors. 6. Tequipment options - The list of Tequipment options is quite substantial. From custom leathers, woods, Carbon fiber, these are all quite desirable to many, not so much to others. Each item adds some flair and value to your purchase. Keep a sharp eye for these. The Factory Option Codes Sticker: The options list is a sticker applied by the factory to the 996. It contains all the factory installed options to the car and can be located on the underside of the front bonnet. It is white in color and is usually exactly under the front badge. These options codes can be translated at various places on the internet. Here is one of my favorites: http://www.kindel.com/porsche/options.asp Myths about the 996: 1. Engines regularly blow up. - Well, what do you say? Partly true? False? No one is certain. One thing is...negative information has a terrible tendency to be more viral than positive. There have been a few out there that have posted their troubles on the forums. I will caution those who read these posts to understand that some of these cars were purchased without a proper PPI. These problems could have potentially been avoided with a proper inspection of the car. Even with that said, the numbers (based on owner reports) thus far show that the numbers are VERY few when viewed on the total cars produced. Do we know the total number of failures? No. Is one engine more likely to go over the other? No. Owners have reported failures in both the 3.4L & the 3.6L. Personally speaking, I am inclined to believe the failure rate is rather low. But that is simply my opinion. Besides...as we all know, problems occur with mass produced products. There are always lemons. Maintenance is the key. Remaining vigil and staying on top of the repairs, and oil changes, etc. How is that different from any other Porsche? 2. The RMS (rear main seal) issue is a deal breaker. HECK NO! Repairs are available, and are not bad in terms of cost. HOWEVER, make sure that the RMS issue on the car you are looking at has been addressed. If oil is literally running out of the car and owner had no intentions on fixing...walk away. Good chance things will be a lot more worse that just an RMS. 3. The 996 is a maintenance nightmare - false. The 996 is one of the easiest cars to work on in Porsche's history. As a result, repairs are less in costly than that of previous 911's. 4. The 3.4L engine is problematic and should be avoided at all cost - False. While the 3.4L's seem to have experienced a good amount of failures, the numbers are still quite low. The engines can be made more reliable with minor oiling modifications. In addition, it is widely known within the Club racing tech circles that the 3.4L motor can be a wonderful racing motor as the shorter stroke can give higher revs and can be quite powerful when tuned properly. Items to check on with each year: 1. Rear Main Seal (RMS) - 3.4L & 3.6L models have issues with leaking seals. Have these checked. The factory does have updates for this item. 2. Intermediate Shaft bearing. This is located directly under the RMS on the crankshaft. The factory does have a bearing replacement and modification to the shaft. If having the RMS checked, do this as well. 2. Front steering rack and boots - are they leaking? 3. Coolant tank and cap - These have been updated. If they are leaking, replace them. 4. Transmission. Does the car shift smoothly. 2nd gear syncos have a tendency of going bad in cars that are abused. While not a prominent item, it is something to be aware of. 5. Brakes - how much wear? Do they need pads? Rotors? 6. Clutch - if abused, this will wear VERY quickly. A 3rd gear test (from a stand still) is a good one to check for slippage. 7. Electronic gear - some switches have been known to wear out. Higher mileage cars may have a couple items to replace. 8. Window regulators - Higher mileage cars could potentially have worn out power windows. Be sure to check the operation of them. 9. Regular maintenance schedule - Has it been maintained? Oil service in particular. 10. Have your inspection shop scan the OBD Computer for Type II over-revs. Type II over-rev is the bad kind. Meaning the engine was in an over-rev condition off throttle. (shifting down) If the engine has rev's to the limiter no big deal, IMO. That's what the limiter is there for. To prevent damage. Overall, these are great cars. There are quite a few owners on the Rennlist with mileage well over 65K. However, as a reminder please note this is a 911. And this mean Porsche has a significant markup on parts and service for these cars. Maintenance on these cars is by no means "cheap." A properly maintained 996 will give you many years of enjoyable driving. Not keeping up with maintenance schedules or fixing small problem, could lead to costly repairs down the road. As a general assumption, always buy the newest model Porsche you can afford. The factory made improvements to the model every year of production. So, unless you have your heart set on a particular year, buy as new as you can afford (assuming condition, of course). For more information on these cars a wonderful FAQ was written about modifications and general items: https://rennlist.com/main996faq/faq.htm Tips to Consider When Buying a Preowned 996: Side Note: This is my personal preferred method of buying a Porsche. I am sure there are others out there doing this method differently. With, five Porsches under my belt with only the 1st one being a problem (lesson learned ), this method has worked extremely well for me over the years. 1. My first, and most important advice - find a dependable, skilled Independant Porsche Specialist to perform a PRE-PURCHASE INSPECTION or PPI near the car you have selected. This will be the BEST money you ever spent. Be sure to have the shop perform a solid checklist and have them send it to you. This will document the inspection and provide you with a detailed list of items that may need to be addressed. I do NOT advise on using the Previous Owners shop. Pick one on your own and work out the details with the owner. I will often use smaller items like tires or light maintenance as a bargaining tool. If the tires needed cost $1000, take a $1000 off the price. Most Previous Owners are happy to bring their car in. If they balk at the idea...I would walk from that car. My preferred method is to send a $500-1000 deposit that is contingent on the PPI. If the car fails the inspection - I cancel the check and walk. Simple as that. 2. Use your head and not your heart when buying a Porsche. I know this is often easier said than done. Do your very best to listen to your gut. Research and learn everything you can to get yourself acquainted with these cars. Knowledge is a great tool for negotiation as well. The more you know, the better chance you will have at getting a good deal and a great car. 3. Finding cars. There are many 996's located across the U.S. I always look for my car's all over the country. Many of my best finds have been in remote locations. As an added bonus, my wife and I have had some great adventures driving our new car home from across the country. If you do not wish to drive, shipping cars is quite easy as well. Be sure to search out a recommended, quality carrier. 4. The previous owner. I ALWAYS like to talk to these people. Are they car enthusiasts? Do they know about their cars? Or, is this guy a poser who simply knows nothing? These questions will tell you if the car has been taken car of. My personal choice is to buy a car from a PCA member or a full Porsche enthusiast. These folks love their cars and it truly shows. 5. Buy from a dealer? My personal preference is no. Why? Often the prices are inflated and the car may simply be an auction car with an obscure history. HOWEVER - there are some VERY reputable pre-owned dealers out there who offer CPO cars and good pricing. If you are comfortable with that direction, that is your discretion. However, I advise checking out the dealer before purchasing. That "Buy here, Pay Here" dealer is NOT the place to buy your Porsche. 6. Mileage. This is often debated. My preference is to find a lighter to middle mileage example. Nothing less than 25K and nothing more then 50K mile on the odometer. Why? Anything less than 20-25K leads me to believe the car has been sitting. (again speak to the Previous Owner) Letting a vehicle sit is one the the worst things that can happen to any machine. Condensation, oxidation, the elements and time will ruin many of the internal components. I learned this hard lesson on my 1st Porsche. It was a 1988 944 Turbo that sat for 5 years in a conditioned garage. $4000 in maintenance costs later, the car was back to shape. Don't make that same mistake I did. On the other side, cars with higher mileage have a tendency to be properly maintained and "fresh." Please note - it is my personal preference to buy performance cars that are less than 50K miles. While there are some excellent examples, previous experience has taught me to look for the car with miles in the middle. 30-40K is my magic number for me. 6. Take your time. Don't be in a rush to find that car. There are plenty out there. Pick your color and the primary options you want and go hunting. I have often found the hunt to be as fun as buying. My present car took me 6 years to find. Be patient. It will be worth your time. 7. Enjoy yourself. After all, you're buying a Porsche. Not many people in this great world can afford to do that. Enjoy the experience. Lastly, I am sure I could keep adding things to this list. The points above are my basic "Porsche Bible" for buying a used performance car. Everyone has had their share of bad experiences. Myself included. Learn from those, take these points and go find that perfect car. Enjoy your Porsche and keep the shiny side up. best, Chad Information Resources: www.pca.org www.rennlist.com www.wikipedia.org www.renntech.org 1998-2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 2 Workshop manuals www.porsche.com/usa/ "Porsche: The Essence of Performance" �2000 Publications Intl. "Excellence" Magazine - Bruce Anderson's Market Report Porsche 996 The Essential Companion - by Adrian Streather

Folks: Please add any other items to look for if I missed some. I will update the list as needed. C.

I'd add - ask the owner where the car was serviced last by Porsche - call the dealership and ask the service manager for the full service history on the car - tells you a whole lot of useful stuff you'd want to know... Comes in pages like this

i will scan the 2 page porsche ppi report when i got home tonight.

When were the coolant tanks updated. I have an 03 that leaks. Thanks.

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Cap was replaced early on, but the tanks all have the split/leak issue I believe

Not sure of this board's protocol...but if there is a way to "pin" this to the top of the board.....I would like to request it.......this is good stuff that will only get better as the "experts" add to it.....thank-you so much.....

nice.... '05 C4S is a 996 MKII as well. J

Thanks for this post. Insight appreciated!

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the mod is missing for years in 996 forum

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Since most cars are now being maintained by Indy's, I think requesting the maintenance records applies to this. Even with my own cars, I have always kept a the shop records...even from Porsche Dealers. This would likely apply to newer cars. However, I stand by my recommendation of buying a car that has paperwork with it. C.

Wasn't the first year 1999 in this country?

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Agreed, however, any warranty work done on the car can be accessed from any Porsche dealership - this could be critical when looking at earlier model years, as they may have had warranty engine replacements, RMS, IMS etc etc, and this would still be on file. Even if the owner has no paper records to view.

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Yes...technically. I believe there are a couple 1998 models from press runs that are floating about. C.

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Agreed. However, I do still advise: No records, no deal. But this will also fall onto how the PO acts. Use discretion and your knowledge. C.

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With the early 996s coming up on 10 years old, there will be a lot of cars out there that fall into the gray zone - good cars without all the service records. The good news is that there will be plenty of cars with the records to choose from. And, for me, I would not automatically kill a deal because there were no records. I would rephrase "no deal" to "no records, be extra careful." With a proper PPI, a caveat emptor type of deal can be a good one - even without records. I think, to a certain degree, you can overlook records (good, bad, or lack thereof) if you get an aftermarket warranty. I know that many people vote against them, but my peace of mind - and my experience with them, was worth the price. My only other comment is that if you intend to resell the car in a few years - you should reconsider the lack of records issue, since it may make your resale easier. -td

May want to mention the following: Porsche's can run from a base model to heavily optioned ($$$) and that range can affect prices significantly. Research the options that were available and decide what you want from the car. There are performance options (X-51, LSD, etc.) and there are cosmetic options (aero kits, full leather, etc.). Some options can be added later (i.e. Litronics) and some are very expensive (X-51) to add later (if it's even possible) In general, always buy the newest model you can afford. Improvements were made every year. So, unless you have your heart set on a particular year, buy newer (assuming condition, of course). There were two "limited editions" made: the 2000 Millenium Edition and the 2004 40th Anniversary edition. Naturally, the 40th Anniversary edition is rapidly appreciating and will be worth a fortune soon (just kidding!)

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td, While admirable, I would still advise on discretion. Yes, there are and will be great cars out there. The better ones likely have records. As for aftermarket warranties, I do not have much experience on this subject and therefore cannot give much information. I am under the old idea that...it's a Porsche. It will be expensive. If you are concerned about budget, perhaps a different car would be best. After all, at the time the 996 was Porsche's flagship brand. You must pay to play unfortunately. Thanks for the input. I am sure someone will find it helpful. C.

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Excellent input. Some of this will be added. Thank you. C.

Nice write up. I'm right at the end of the process right now (literally, the car is expected at the mechanic in 10 minutes). I've been looking for 2-3 months and this is the first car that I've gotten to the point of a PPI. Eric

Nice write up Chad -- A few minor points -- AFAIK the 996 was released in the RoW in 1998 - 1999 in the North America In 2000-2001 the hp was bumped to 300.

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Thanks Rob. As mentioned, you are correct about the US release. However, there are a couple (3-4) 1998 press cars that are floating around out there. I came across one during my search for my white beastie. So, I felt it fair to mention that year. C.

Im still not clear. My tank does not leak but the cap has some kind of air relief that lets fluid slosh out when at the track. Is this fixable or should I just put a rag around the cap and drive on??? Thanks

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Welcome to the 996 club Tbone. I replaced mine one year ago.

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Re: AM Warranties - I believe that aftermarket warranties provide a layer of security that should be considered. And, personally, I don't buy into the "budget is a concern" argument anyway since most people looking at 996s can still elect to buy what they want, and not "buy something else due to budget concerns." To me, an aftermarket warranty costing ~$2K and covering virtually everything for the next 4 years and 60K miles is an acceptable calculated risk. Granted, they are a gamble, but so is buying a 5-9 year old car - even with records. I recognize that others have a different threshhold. In my opinion, the aftermarket warranty is a good investment for the "flagship" cars - since most "normal" repairs run around $500, and anything semi-major is already pushing $1,000+ . If you can get a 4 year, up to 100K "everything included" policy for around $2,000, I can't see passing it up. It would be akin to passing up a CPO car to save $2K. There have been numerous threads on this and in those, very few people, if any, have said "I got the warranty and it was a waste of money." IIRC, most of the detractors come from the "I didn't get one so I don't think they are worth it" side. [edit] At the time of this thread, various AM warranties for the 996 were going for ~$2,000 - $4,000 depending on state, coverage, and term. Some/most have to be purchased from a dealer with the sale of the car. If you get a good 996, you may never recoup your warranty. But buying a 996 in 2008 will get you a car that is ~5-9 years old. Personally, I think buying a 5 year old car with a warranty is a good thing. Getting a 9 year old car with a warranty is even better. Lastly, keep in mind, if you intend to mod your car, most non-OEM mods will void your aftermarket warranty. -td -> my $0.02

I think aftermarket warranties are just as valid as looking for a car with CPO so long as the purchaser of that warranty did his/her homework. For example, I purchased my all-inclusive warranty 4 yrs/48K miles for $3500 (including sales tax at 8.9%). I bought it at my local Porsche dealer to make sure that I have favoristism/familiarity on my side should I ever bring my car in. I know that this warranty company has an agreement with Porsche that they can begin work ASAP v. waiting for an authorization #. These are details that people may not think about as I certainly did not until the dealership pointed that out to me. Imagine driving into the dealership with your aftermarket warranty and they tell you you have to wait until the warranty company provides approval to open up on ticket - that costs you time and adds an added mystery factor that could've largely been avoided had you gone through an aftermarket warranty company that makes the repair experience similar to owning a factory warranty. I would not have the peace of mind I have now sans $3500 security blanket. And I'm betting that if and when I need something to be covered, the dealership that sold me this aftermarket warranty will back up its talk. Given Barrier Porsche's local reputation, I'm ok with this level of risk, especially since they serve so many Microsoft people who tend to have some pull in this town.

Aftermarket warranties are, by objective defintion, poor value. The warranty companies couldn't make money otherwise, and they certainly make money. So, I think they're a good idea if: 1. You can't afford to pay for whatever might go wrong. 2. You put a premium on predictability in your financial life and are willing to pay for that. If either or both of those fits you, then a warranty is worth whatever you choose to pay for it, and you should get one. If not, then by any objective economic measure, they are about par with a lottery ticket in terms of value for money. By definition. I think it's untrue and a touch irresponsible to the reputation of these cars to make a blanket statement that everybody should get one. Just another perspective to consider.

I see your points, Bruce, but given that a lot of us are not trust fund babies and drive not a $200K car brand spanking new, on top of knowing how the M96 engines are not known to be "bulletproof," the recommendation in considering an aftermarket warranty and putting it up in this buyer's guide is a value-add at the end of the day. I think you would agree that nothing is ever clear cut in this forum and in life so a poor value to you may be of great value for others. We shouldn't omit this subject matter from a used car buyer's guide because some of us like to indirectly interject that a $12G engine replacement wouldn't **** off their bank account. That's a lot of food on the table, period, and even at my age, peace of mind counts for a lot. $3Gs gets you an Omega Speedmaster Pro. $12Gs gets you a Panerai. It's an insurance policy and it's clear to me based on my readings that this topic is highly relevant. Bingo.

Alex does that mean that you get no leakage now???

Great job Chad, that should help a lot of potential buyers.

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Hey, no criticism is meant. And I think that you're pretty honest with yourself about why you're doing it, so it really does have value to you. There was a time I would have done the same, just so I could have a car that I might not otherwise feel comfortable driving. I think that's just it, though... people have to be frank with themselves about why they want the protection before they can really judge its value. If I was writing a buyer's guide, I might say, "Repairs can be expensive and replacing an engine is not unheard of. If big repair expenses would be too disruptive to you financially, consider an extended warranty." I would not say, "Extended warranties are a must," or even, "... a good idea." Fact is, for everyone who says they're glad they got one, there are hundreds who silently wish they hadn't bothered. Buying one is a gamble, and so is not buying one. In the first instance, the odds of losing are much higher, but the price is lower. In the second, the odds of losing are much, much lower, but the price is much higher. My point is kind of the same as yours: Value is subjective. I think any advice given to a prospective buyer should acknowledge that.

if the coolant tank are yellowish in color, most likely its the original and more likely to leak... if whitish in color, it is fairly new. To replace the tank for na, its a direct replacement and a diy. For a tt, its an engine drop, most likely not a diy.

Thanks to everyone for chipping in on this thread. Good Read for me especially since a 911 is looming round the corner as long as I can get rid of my darned RX8!

Thank you for the well thought out post.

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Watches, right?

Yup. Got my Omega Speedmaster on eBay for $675 about 8 years ago. To someone, it was an unwanted gift.(!) It still gets stares and inquiries from people almost every day. And even if it didn't, I love it every time I put it on. Dead on accurate, self-winding, no battery required, maintenance free so far. Gotta love it! And now, returning to topic: This thread was an awesome (i.e. valuable) find for me. I cannot thank the original author enough! I am still waiting for an opportunity to test drive a 997 GT3 to decide if I want to jump into a 996 or save a little bit more and wait for a 997... Wondering how to go about finding a 997 GT3 to drive in the Newport Beach area... -wa2go '97 E36 BMW M3 currently in storage in NY '91 E30 BMW 325iX currently in storage in NY nondescript USA-made longterm rental DD junk '99 BMW R1100S 0-60 in 2.9 sec '90 Harley Low Rider, louder than hell

Chad What specific or general probs did you have with 996s over 50K miles?

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No specific problems. As I stated in the post, it is a personal preference to find Porsches in that particular mileage range (based on how old the model is). Most sports cars in general sometimes live hard lives. One's owned and maintained by enthusiasts often live less harsh ones with often less miles driven. If you are comfortable buying a 996 with higher mileage...that is your decision. Be sure to get a complete PPI with compression. C.

Hi looking at a preowned 2001 996TT, I came across the dealer service records with description of "Stage 2,3,4 Recon." performed in in 2004, what is a Recon.? is that a major red flag?

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Sounds like a reconditioning of some sort. Given that this is a normally aspirated forum, you might have better luck over in the Turbo forum. Good luck with your search. C.

oops! pardon me didn't realize it Sam

Hi, I am about to buy my first Porsche. That will be a daily driver. My budget is about $40K. Given that I am in Boston, I want a carrera 4 or 4S. After looking at a couple of website such as cars.com or ebay, I see that I can get a 2003/2004 4S coupe for about that price with around 40K or so. Is there a big maintenance cost between the 4 & 4S? Any reliability differencial? Given that the limited price difference between the 4 & 4S, I am really wondering why I should not buy the 4S Finally, is there RMS still an issue on the 2003/2004 models? Thanks for your answers Paul

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RMS issues can pop up on any of these cars. HOWEVER, the RMS issue is completely fixable and should be a deal breaker (unless the issue is long overdue for a fix). The C4S is a MUCH better car (in my opinion) than the C4. Better brakes, handling, etc. Personally, I would shoot for one of those. Good luck. C.

Thanks for answers and buying tips. I narrowed down my search to 3 cars in the Tri-state area - and I am looking for somebody who could do a PPI for me. Can you please tell me where I can find a mechanics that could do a PPI on a 996 4S. How does that work? Should I ask the seller to drive the car there after I pay a deposit? or should I drive it after I leave a deposit? Thanks

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Congrats. If possible, post a request here on Rennlist or contact the local PCA chapter president. They will likely know a good independent shop. If that is not available, try a dealer. The PPI - yes, request that the seller take the car to the closest location available. Most PO's will gladly do this. Be sure to offer to pay for the gas (optional, but something I would do). The total sale should be contingent on the PPI. Meaning, the deposit as well. If the car fails the PPI cancel the deposit check and walk. Hope that helps. Good luck. C.

Thanks a lot for your answers. One more question - one of the 3models of '03 4S I am interested has an Auto/Tiptronic transmission. I know all porsche fans will scream at the thought of driving an automatic porsche, but I am wondering whether driving a manual 4S in heavy traffic as a daily driver (lots of stops & go's) is 1) annoying after a while? and 2) shortens the life of the gearbox/clutch much faster? Finally, are there more problems with manual or automatic transmission? how about the clutch? Thanks a bunch paul

Great post Chad, very helpful info. Much appreciated!

Rather than keep this old topic stickied, I've added a link to the Forum Guidelines thread located at the top of the 996 forum for easy acccess.

hey everyone, sorry to revive an old thread but i'm having trouble trying to figure out the diff between a 996 s and non-s. I recently rented a 2004 c4s cab for 2 weeks and absolutely loved. i'm having trouble liking my poor 2004 m3 cab again, LOL! (poor baby). so i'm really confused as to why both S and non-S have 320 HP. what's the diff? i tried searching, sorry if my n00b research abilities are unrefined as of yet!

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...perfect for commuting - coffee, smokes, phones, etc. - no problem. Plus, with my Sprint Booster installed it gits up and goes lickety-split. Rain - snow (w/blizzaks) - no problem, and the list goes on...

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Right - in the world of 996 only the C4 came in normal and S versions. The C2 came only as a C2. Unlike the 993 that came before and the 997 that followed, there is no 996 C2S. The difference between the C4 and the C4S is that the C4S is a turbo in most every way except it doesn't have the turbo motor. OK it doesn't have the gaping holes in the fenders or the turbo tail, but it has the brakes, suspension and fat fenders from the turbo, as well as the 4 wheel drive (of course) and the luxury doodads. You can liken it to the old M491 "turbo look" 3.2 Carrera back in the day. It's the same 320 hp M96 motor between the C2, C4 and C4S though....as you've discovered already. It was the same with the 993. The S versions had the same motor pushing around more iron. I'd complain that Porsche was cashing in some of their legacy goodwill, but they sold the farm already (in my opinion) when the normal 911 became known as the Carrera back in 1984...but that's another rant. For me it's a lot of unnecessary weight...and I've never been a big fan of wide body Porsches, but that's just me although I do prefer the 997S to the 997 normal. Now go ahead and ditch that Bimmer.

Huh, are you sure there's no such thing as a 996 S? And I was under the impression that the C2 and C4 were only about 300hp?

Med, 2002 - 2004 996 C2 has 320 HP. There was no C2S, only the C4S, which had the same 320 HP engine, but other goodies like wide body, full leather, turbp type rear bumper cover, etc.

[QUOTE=medtech;6711857]Huh, are you sure there's no such thing as a 996 S? QUOTE] Have you ever seen one? Yup I'm sure.

By reading the buyers guide I see something about sunroof delete. What is a sunroof delete (is a Porsche with no sunroof)? Does this 966 have problems with the sunroof?

Sunroof delete is prefered if you track the car. More headroom for the helmet and weight removed where it is not needed, up high. John

Thanks, I thought it was a problem with the sunroof.

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I think it's the same sunroof design Porsche has been using for the last 100 years or so. Not bulletproof, but good for many years of service. I don't know for sure because my 2002 sunroof has not required any work at all. I have fixed Porsche sunroofs in the past - they're pretty simple to work on. I do know that mine, and many others I have heard of, need a gentle helping hand once in a while otherwise the stop in their tracks and require a backward/forward thing. Not a problem. When I close the roof I sometimes just reach up and push it along a bit. Part of the mystique.

Chad, thank you for this information as I am now in the process of buying a 911. One question for you... I can either afford a 997 911S with 50K miles OR a 996 911S 2004 with low miles (15K-25K). What would you do?

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997 if it is in comparable condition.

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... and has a comparable service history.

Did you drive both cars? How did you think they compared to each other, both being 911S, and did you 'feel' a difference? Either Porsche sounds good.

depends on the year.... I wouldnt get an 05 997, would prefer the 04 c4s over the base 997.

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As the rule for Porsches usually goes, buy the latest edition you can afford. The 911 has always been an evolutionary car. Advances have been made each year it is released. C.

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What Chad said, plus the following.... 2004 (either C2 or C4S) has 320 HP, while the 997 "S" has 355 HP, plus PASM suspension.

Bringing this post back up as i continue to research the 996 as a potential next car purchase. Obviously, any car would receive a PPI before I consider purchasing but I would like to have a little more info on the engine troubles, (RMS, IMS and cylinder liners) before spending the cash on the PPI. I read that those engine issues can be remedied by installing corrected versions of the seals and bearings so should I be looking for a 996 who has had these fixes performed? I mean, other than looking for leaks and listening for noises, how would these issues pop up in a PPI on something like a 2002-2004 996 with 60-80K miles? These issues are the only thing that is holding me back on this generation 911. Thanks

I suggest that you do a search on the issues for which you have interest. There are many posts on the forum which should provide the information you are looking for. Also, you can look for posts from Jake Raby. He's one of the resident experts. Here are some of the most recent posts on the IMS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...eat-story.html https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...s-bearing.html and lots more. Good topic on a DIY changeout: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-bearing.html Bottom line is, there are plenty of stories out there, some good, some not so good. If you like the car, it passes the PPI and is within your price range, don't let the engine "challenges" keep you from buying it. From what I have been able to gather, almost all P-cars have had their issues. Get the one that is right for you and drive it!

Chad, As a former two-time 993 owner and current 996 owner, I admit to having my "sensitivities" about the oft maligned 996s. Congrats to you on the 996 Buyer's Guide...very well done. FYI-my 1999 cab has the Supple Leather-F/R seats, plus leather covered dash, etc., and I agree with your sentiments in re. desirability. Nonetheless, as you emphasize, documented maintenance is THE most important issue when surveying these wonderful cars.

Great Thread!

needs to be pinned

This thread is excellent.

Starting in 2002, the 996 cabrios have a glass rear window, a nice improvement over the plastic ones, which have a tendency to separate from the top seal over time, especially in the upper corners. relinuca

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agreed...appreciate the answers on my earlier n00b question from 2009, lol. I'm back in another M3 but now I want to make the jump to a 997.2 C2/4S Cab, and I'll be patiently waiting for one to fall into my price range with the new 991 coming out. /threadjack

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There were actually 14 996's built as 1997 models with VIN's to reflect that build date (V code) and these were shipped to Brazil. 8296 C2's were built by the factory in 1998 along with 952 cabs. The only 1998 models anyone has heard of imported by PCNA were Cabriolets. There are no records of C2's imported as year code 'W' for our market in 1998. Mexico had a few 1998 C2's and Cabs imported so some of these may have found their way north after a few years as well as I'm sure a number of ROW units have found their way over here in the years after introduction. 1998 USA VIN's begin as #650061 Engine codes also have the 'W' year code unless they have been replaced in the years since importation.

Chad tell me something. I maintain my own car. I keep all reciepts of simple things bought that I use on the car during my ownership. ie, brake pads and fluids, oils, coolants, air and oil filters, plugs etc.. You state that you would walk, if there was no maintenance records. Could my reciepts be classed as 'records' if ever I sold the car. I mean the car is now in better condition than it was when I bought it. In other words, would a PPI together with self maintained records of reciepts for items used on the vehicle be as valuable as a PPI with Porsche or Indy records. Would you class my reciepts as a plus factor when you are buying a used car. Is DIY a plus or a negataive to consider when you are searching for a used car. (Not that I will be selling mine for at least another two years.)Thanks.

I spent 2 years looking for a C2 with limited slip differential and it really is rare and it REALLY is worth spending time to find one with a LSD.

And another old thread rises... Whatever happened to Chad I wonder?

FYI-don't automatically discount your local dealership for servicing an early 996. In my experience, my dealer frequently offers special discount coupons which when included with the PCA member discount brings the cost down to only slightly more than nearby indy shops. Plus my dealer will provide me with a free loaner car if the work requires keeping the car over night, or awaiting parts, etc. (No, the loaner is not a GT3. Darn!) relinuca '99 996 Cabrio w/hardtop

I'm looking at a 2003 996 c4s and 2005 c4s- basically same equipment on car however the 2003 has 39,000 miles and the 2005 has 9,500 miles. are the models any different? which is the best 996 year to purchase?

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The newest one you can afford.

Thanks Tim. I can afford either one, but if there is no difference between model years why pay the additional dollars? is there a difference between model years 2003 and 2005? cars look the same to me.

+1 on the "newest possible" philosophy. It may be hard to find published differences (e.g. Displacement, hp, etc) but most manufacturers operate under the principal of continuous improvement - as issues are discovered they may be improved, even mid-production, mid-model year. Of course there are other variables such as price, service history/ records, color, options, and more. Good luck with your purchase.

'03=996 '05=997 (first year)

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'05 C4S and Turbo are 996 not 997.

Yes and 05 Targa's are also 996.

So 2005 c4s is best choice vs 2003 c4s

Seeking advice on which to purchase, best deal for the money: 2003 c2 cab 40000 miles for $33k 2006 c2 cab CPO 50000 miles for $45k will of course obtain PPI either way. Both are dealer sales. 2003 no signs of RMS replacement Can afford either but curious what you think is the better deal Thanks for the feedback

I sadly and with regrets just sold my 2004 C4S... I felt like I had just broken up with a loved but untrusted girlfriend the day it left. I owned it since new and drove it like it was supposed to be driven. Meticulously maintained, the car had 52k miles on it when the new owner picked it up. I never had any major issues with the car. At 36k I preemptively had the RMS and IMS remedies done after reading one of the very early technical articles on the IMS issue. While they were in there I had them install a new clutch kit to save on future labor. I did all this with every intention of keeping the car forever .... I thought I was more or less bullet proofing the car. I watched values drop, posts on engine failures dye to IMS pop up seemingly every day, and then I learned of cylinder lining issues, gasket leaks, and the like destroying engines. my mechanic had 4 996s sitting at his place with owners wondering what to do (some with 10k - 20k miles on them) Engine replacements or rebuilds are estimated to be $20k as has been written about often and when one is done with repairs (that is if something happens) you will have spent $20+ grand additional to what you originally paid for the car and you can't sell for more than $20k - $25k once you tell the story. Re-manufactured engines from Porsche reintroduce the IMS bearing issue back into the equation (your equation) as they use only a slightly modified sealed bearing in the rebuild. It's still prone to going doing the LN bearing upgrade is yet an additional expense on you. Not confidence inspiring at all and certainly doesn't help in the peace of mind. All that said, the number of failures is probably dwarfed by the numbers of no issue cars. The internet did succeed in scaring me away on this one.... I let my beloved 996 c4s go and I am seriously thinking I shouldn't have. But then again, I'm not of the means to keep rebuilding Porsche engines either. Therein lies the dilemma with these things. Be wary... Good luck!

Please tell me that last post won't be allowed to stand.

Thanks to the hysteria, those values have nosedived again. and,, continues to fall. Thank you for a great first post!

The "latest model you can find" may be of even more importance to potential buyers, considering the "10 years in service" language in the proposed IMSB class-action settlement: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-mar-12-a.html I'm content with my '99 and its OEM dual-row IMSB, but I understand that other people spend more time worrying about car motors and values than I do.

Contemplating the purchase of a 99 coupe 112k miles, new factory engine in 2005 at 77k miles. No LSD. Guards red over tan, manual trans. How are the factory replacement crate motors holding up? Any thoughts regarding price range of fair market value?

Would appreciate any insight and advice on this car: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251650085922?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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I'm close enough that I'd be willing to give you a rennfax if you get that interested. I'm not really all that close but any excuse to beat on a gt3.

Wow. Just looked at prices for available 996 at cars.com, autotrader & ebay. Never expected it to depreciate so much. ;(

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Anyone have insight on this car? Recommendations for a thorough, trustworthy PPI?

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You can thank KK, IXX Internet Hysteria, Lawyers, mass production, lousy owners, and all the worry warts out there...

That's a great car but seems like high mileage for a GT3. These are meant to be admired, not tracked or DD's. Hold on Alpy, can't blame me for that.

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Why not? If you search on most of your posts, it's all negative, then the snowball effect usually takes place. Either way, how you coming on your 997 turbo search? I'm glad you finally took my advice from way back when.

That GT3 looky velly goody to me. Me rike velly velly much. .

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"It's fRied Rice you Plick!!!"

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Since when are GT3s garage queens?! Why don't you mosey on over to the GT3 boards with that ridiculous comment. You may learn a bit about using these cars as intended.

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I think the Kster learned a valuable lesson on the 944 board a while back but I double dawg dare him to move over to the 3 forum and throw the comment "....not meant to be tracked". But I also finally get the KK humor...gawd did I say that?

GT3's are not meant to be tracked? KK, you say the damnedist things sometimes.

Not so. I think the more openly the issues and fixes are discussed, the more it does for the 996 platform. Allow me to better explain. The "early" GT3's (and GT2's) are far too rare and valuable to be abused or DD. They should be restored and displayed. The 944? Well, sorry but there is no hope.

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Well. You are entitled to your opinion. I feel it's fairly obvious that a lot of the Porsche community doesn't share your views on how we should be treating our own cars..

KK hooks some new ones.

New to the forum, read as much as I could about IMS issues. So, one school of thought is if a 996 , in this case I am looking at 2000-2002 Boxsters, makes it to 50k+, the chances of an IMS failure decrease, as in if it was going to fail it would have failed already. Another school of thought is that as you approach higher mileage, IMS failure is more likely. One more IMS note that I just stumbled upon today- S types are less likely or even immune because the location of the RMS and IMS are different from the base 996. Any thoughts from those more experienced than me (everyone) are greatly appreciated. GR

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They are about a mile from my house and a decent guy that owns the dealership. You can get a PPI from my pcar shop in west Chester Chris Radbill Automotive. He would likely go onsite to them to do the PPI if needed.

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Here ya go!: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=IMSB+Rennlist

Great guide (and thread). I've been on the hunt for a 996 in San Diego, but am having trouble tracking down someone for the PPI. Anyone else gone through the same thing bs found someone you trust?

^^^ Where in San Diego are you? European Motorsports in Vista and Charlie's Foreign Car in Encinitas are both excellent places that I would recommend for a PPI. Also, Black Forest Automotive in SD has a great reputation, but I have not personally used them for servicing.

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I'll second Black Forest. Just used them to install a crank case sensor I couldn't for the life of me install due to not being able to get to the top connector. Ugh. At any rate (no pun intended), great guys, lots of knowledge and fair prices. B

I disagree with the PPI because I think it's overrated. But it's just me. I've not been burned yet after two preowned purchases.

RE: PPIs...which I cannot argue against. Still I bought my 03 996 without a PPI in the traditional sense. I bought it from a non-Porsche dealer I had done business with several times. I knew that they new little if anything about the car. However the carfax gave me enough information to be sure that the car had not been meticulously maintained. At the same time, it was a very clean example with no signs of obvious abuse, to the interior, to the exterior, to the underside or engine bay...and it drove very well. I was aware the 996 had potential engine issues but not to level of intense debate reflected here. I bought the car and immediately took it to a Porsche dealer and invested money in an inspection that qualified it for an after warranty service contract. I went over the service history the dealer had from the car when the second owner had them service it. I gave it a full oil and filter change, flushed the brakes and put in fresh fluid, had new plugs and a serpintine belt installed, and had the wheels balanced and checked the alignment. From that point on I put myself in the hands of the people who designed and built it. I consider the risks to be no greater than when I bought a 308 Ferrari with 88k miles on it. Back then I read the car's service history, gave it a major service to start my ownership of it, and then drove it for 2 1/2 years, when I sold it with 124k miles on it. The car was not without design issues and yet together we survived and had a swell time. I think everyone who buys a used 996 has to remind themselves, this is not a Maserati Biturbo...the history of Porsche does stand for something. Otherwise none of us would be here.

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^^^ Great perspective and you have very big ***** to have bought a 88k 308.

The 308 with 88k was an easy decision. I spent two hours reading every service receipt going back to the dealer pre-delivery inspection. The first owner had already spent all the money...I was basically riding on his nickle. And the car was fun...not fast but fun. Black with a blood red leather interior, all original. Everything worked including the factory emissions equipment, the AC, all the lights, etc., etc. It was a car that required awareness of the design and a willingness to live with it. Shifting through the gate was always a pleasure...always. In the mornings you would short shift from first to third until the gear box oil warmed up. And the engine seemed very happy to reach its 8000 rpm redline. My big mistake was not buying a 246 Dino coupe for $13,000. That was a great car to drive.

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I've never seen them that low but still kicking myself also for not buying one when it was at the bottom of the market at $26k. Def one of my favs

I bought a 275 GTB4 in 1882 from a guy in New Jersey for 23000 and drove it back to Los Angeles where I lived at the time. I also bought a new 512BB the same year. At the time Daytonas were just becoming real collectable and there were shops in LA making Spyders out of coupes. I was more into bikes then cars so I didn't keep either one to long, however I did drive the hell out of them while I had them. Not many Ferrari can say they drove a 275 four cam across the US. Someone offered me a hundred grand for the 275 and I sold it less than 2 years later. I haven't had any exotic cars since those days until I took the present 18000 mile 996 in on a trade on a 32 Ford roadster. I always liked the way they looked and this one is real clean. I don't have much in it so I think I'll keep it. Personally I'm glad they aren't worth much as I'll probably keep it longer and drive it more that way.

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Was this a one horse or two horse carriage?

agree with Cuda and all 3 shops-

They should be replaced at 70k. Second time on two different cars, one at 74k, the other at 77k.

New site issues for me..