Winter-ing in a C4S

Hi all, Being a part-time resident of New England one of the big car subjects I can't get around is what to do about the winter. I currently have a 964, which I love, but barely sees any use because I don't take it out in inclement weather and I also travel a lot. I've owned a smattering of AWD daily's to get by in the snow, ranging from various BMWs to currently a Focus RS. I love the Focus RS, it's a great car, but it's also the first car I ever bought new, and I'm starting to regret it. One, I bought it on an initial dealership allocation and paid a bit over sticker. Not a crazy amount, but a couple grand. Two, I financed it at a pretty not-amazing rate because I didn't have the cash at the time. It's the single most expensive purchase I've ever made. And third, I spend a ****load of time in California. In the past year I put 1500 miles on the thing. When I'm out here for weeks and weeks, making a hefty payment on a car that's collecting dust on the other side of the country, it just feels... bad. It just pains me in the wallet of my soul to throw money at a loan that's probably close to double what the car will be worth in two years. So I'm at a point where I want to ditch the thing, get out from under the payments and buy something a little cheaper, a little used, and something that can sit most of the time and won't bother me too much. And because I love 911s, I figured why not look at the AWD 996's and see what's out there. There's a couple nice C4S coupes w/ MT near me that I wanna check out. Up to this point, I've been browsing listings online but haven't really had anyone talk sense into me or tell me why this is such a bad idea. I'm just in love/obsessed with the idea of hustling around a 911 in some light snow later this year. I had fun in my Focus RS this past winter, and it really doesn't have a ton of clearance compared to a 996 (I think), so I'm not shooting myself in the foot from that viewpoint. I've spent a limited amount of time in/around 996s, so I just wanted to put some feelers out there and see how people use their cars in cold weather.

Not sure a used 996 will be cheaper than a Focus RS. You have to sell the Focus and probably book some goodly amount of depreciation loss. Then you have to find a good used 996 4S example and good ones are not cheap to buy. The running costs of a 996 are going to be more than for that of a Focus RS. The Porsche 996 AWD system is not a very good system in marginal traction conditions. All it brings is extra weight, complexity. When the 996 is fitted with snow tires I believe you'll find the front and rear tire revs/mile numbers to be "wrong" in that the rear tires do *not* make more revs per mile than the fronts thus there is no transfer of torque from the rear to the front. Unless you really prefer the 4S to the standard 996 my advice is get the RWD only model. Fit it with proper winter tires and it will be as good as any other RWD only car and better than most. If winter temps get down to -25C where you live and drive be sure you run 0w-40 oil at least in the winter. For winter use these are good cars. A good handling/running car is a pleasure to drive at any time. In marginal traction conditions as long as one is very aware of the car's limitations in terms of ground clearance and one doesn't overdrive the tires -- which should be real honest to goodness winter/snow tires and not just some all season tires the 996 will be just fine. I drove 2 winters in my Boxster in the mid-west and I didn't even have snow tires on the thing. However, I was dumb and lucky I didn't pay dearly for my mistake. But the car was fine although a few times the tires almost had me come to grief. My 996 Turbo -- with of course AWD -- has been in winter driving conditions -- and like the Boxster with just summer tires on it -- but I was able to pick my times I drove the car to avoid real bad and prolonged snow. Mostly it was exposed to just cold temperatures, down to 0F. The exposure to the cold probably cost me 3 very expensive radiators. The OE radiators apparently can't handle the wild swings in temperatures from an overnight cold of 0F to of course when the car is being used to whatevery the coolant gets up to and it can get up to nearly 200F. The expansion/contraction had all 3 radiators leaking.

Ok, I have a 2005 996 C4S and park/store it during the midwest winters. Here's why I chose to do that: Reviewed winter tire sizes and realized I would need different wheels much less winter tires(storage/cost issue). Read enough about the "AWD" system to understand it wasn't really designed for four wheelin' in real snow. Front end has 6" clearance at lower edge of front spoiler and 5.5" at the plastic cover for the front differential...pretty low and that is stock suspension. While my car is not an exotic, its a nice car to me and the thought of some 19yo-stereo blasting-text messaging-no winter driving experience kid in a beater sliding into me on snow/ice was more than enough for me to park it during winter. There are those who say buy the tires and drive it. I say more power to them. I have other cars more capable of getting through the frozen stuff. If I was in your shoes I would buy a used Toyota Four Runner for the New England winters! Good for hauling wood and snow mobiles. Besides I thought a light snow out there was approximately 1 foot!?

Just read your reasons for wanting to sell the Focus (i.e. LACK OF USE, $$$). You may be abe to buy a 996 CHEAP but do not confuse that with the cost to KEEP one. Hope you do not make "another" costly mistake.

^^^Excellent points.

Don't shoot BOTH of your feet. The 996 will cost you a pretty chunk of change up front AND to maintain. You're going to take a major hit on resale on the Focus RS. We have two Focus (non-RS) in the family and while they're great cars, there value has dropped like a major ton of bricks. The RS will help a bit, but I'm close to the family that owns the Ford dealership in my area and they refuse to buy anymore performance Focus models because there is little or no demand. Most people in the southeast would rather purchase a proven performer like the Mustang GT for about the same amount. But I'm sure there are many parts of the country that would prefer the ST and RS models. My best advice can be summed up in one sentence... Don't let the little head control the big head! comprende amigo?

If I was in your shoes I'd keep the 964 for the long haul & either keep the Focus or sell it & pick up a twin turbo BMW 335 with awd from the 06-08 era. The narrow body C4s are also fairly cheap as you can buy mk1 or mk2 and they lack the Turbo bits and widebody that hold up C4S prices. Did I mention keep the 964? Good luck with the RS sale if you end up going in that direction.

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Oh yeah, keeping the 964 is non-negotiable. I actually used to have a 2011 335i xdrive coupe before I got the RS. It was a great car too. Like b3freak said, I think I have some kind of car ADD where I NEED to have the NEWEST BEST THING RIGHT NOW (TODAY!). Now I'm stuck with something I kind of like but don't really use and costs me way more than all my other current cars do. Oddly, I think part of the motivation for going back to another 911 is my 964 has been pretty much problem-free the last couple years. Granted, it hasn't been driven that much, but I think my total maintanence spend has been about $1000 in the last eighteen months (oil change, and rear brake light assembly replacement). Compare that with the several hundred dollar monthly bill on the Ford. So in a way, maybe I'm hopping lightning will strike twice and I can pick up a clean, well documented 996 that doesn't have a long to-do list. Or maybe I should just be happy with what I have now and say screw the rest of it.

On the bright side, you're talking about harsh depreciation on the Focus & not a new Turbo S. With pending moves to electric, stranger things could happen with ICE-powered sports cars than we might anticipate. I can sympathize on the automotive ADD btw

Get rid of the Focus RS and buy a 996. You will sleep better at night knowing any dollars you spend aren't going to depreciation, but rather, into a vehicle that holds its value. The 996, though, should be driven as regularly as possible. You don't want it sitting for many weeks at a time. When you do drive it, try to drive to drive it long and spirited (I almost said long and hard) so that you get it up (sorry) to temperature and toss it around to make it squeal (sorry).

I drove a 996 C4S as my daily driver in all seasons when I lived in the midwest. The car handled most winter conditions without issues, deep snow being the exception. It's necessary to add proper winter tires to the car for it to be useful, and this requires a dedicated set of winter wheels because of the availability of winter tires in the proper size. The widest winter tire you can buy for the rear is 265mm as opposed to the 295mm summer tire width. As a result, you'll need 10" wheels for the rear, which is exactly what Porsche recommends. I agree with Macster's comments. The thing that made the C4S drivable in the winter was the tires, not the AWD system. I think a C2 with proper tires would do just as well as a C4S.

I've been as direct as possible here regarding MY OWN preferred outcome in hopes of cutting through all the options and opinions I've come across while searching this forum and others. Thanks in advance. I am a new 996 4S owner and need some experienced help to figure out and end-up w/ the best set up for winter driving (will be living in Rocky Mountains this year): 1. I DO NOT want to use the wheels currently on the car w/winter rubber. 2. I want a second complete winter set-up and I want them to be narrower, w/taller side walls than what I would run normally in summer weather (the stock OEM 4S set-up). 3. I do not mind the cost and storage of a 2nd set of wheels & tires. 4. My preference is to run Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2's over Blizzaks 5. Pls included any spacer sizes, etc. that will be needed to make this happen

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All you need to know https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...996-forum.html

Sure you can drive it in the winter. Light snow shouldn't be a problem if you take it easy. As others have mentioned, the AWD is more for track performance and not all weather conditions, but that doesn't mean it won't help. The biggest advantage the 911 has for snow is the rear engine configuration. I live in Cincinnati so our winters are usually pretty mild in terms of snow - but we do occasionally get dumped on. In high school I drove a Pontiac Fiero in the snow all the time with all season tires - the mid engine layout helped with traction more than you'd expect. Prior to the 911, I had a Z4 and drove it for 4 years with summer sport tires. I got stuck in an unplowed parking lot once (6"+ of snow) and one time during some freezing rain had a heck of a time starting from stops at lights on my way home. Other than that it worked out just fine. I've had my C4S for one winter so far, but it was very mild. I think maybe I drove through a light dusting once. I also didn't bother to switch to winter tires, instead just leaving my Pilot Super Sports on - which are as far from winter tires as you can get. I had zero issues with traction. Bottom line, I believe life is too short to drive something you don't enjoy.

Not a 996 - but I did drive my Boxster through one winter with a hardtop and snow tires. Generally fine however one morning after a large 6-7" snowfall the car was absolutely beached in the driveway, would not move more than a few inches without getting stuck due to clearance. I've been considering consolidating my A4 and 986 and moving into a C4 but the clearance in deep snow, plus the theory of cold weather exacerbating piston scoring has made me think twice.

I've been bounced around to several threads - the net of my request is so simple - I just want my c4s to be safely capable of handling snow/ice on somewhat plowed roads ...not off-roading, not stream crossing, not even dirt roads. Everyone knows that putting on narrower rims w/taller side walls is the key to this -- so, keeping it simple, aside from buying an identical set of "winter" rims & tires from TireRack can someone who's done this on a 996 C4S tell me exactly what else can be done using spacers to get smaller winter tire widths/higher sidewalls than 265/35/18 in the rear (best TireRack can do)? I have the big brakes on the S so pretty sure I can't go down to 17"s. -- Current summer setup: 295/30/18 rear tire size (10.5" rear rim?) makes me think I want to go significantly down and utilize spacers... but at what point or reduction in width will spacers compromise the car's safety/integrity?

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I drive both a 1998 Boxster and 2000 996 C2 in Rochester NY year round. Not too many folks get more snow than us. I run Toyo Proxes 4 on my Boxster and Kuhmo Exsta II's. Both are OEM sizes. They both do surprisingly well. Two biggest problems I've had are snow building up in the wheel wells, when the snow is deep, causing the car to shake. The second is with the 911 and its power. You really have to take it easy or the car's rear end will want to be in the front.

The recommended winter setup is 18x8 50 and 18x10 47. The current Porsche Approved tires are the Pirelli Winter Snowsports. Tire Rack indicates that the 265/35r18s will fit on a 10 inch rim. What is difficult for many of us to accept is that the front 225/40r18 tires to go with this set up are smaller than the rears, effectively nullifying the awd system on the 996. I have run a set of Victor Innsbruck wheels on my C4S, and a 18x10 50 rim is usable without spacers. My recommendation is to get a set of winter rims, put the right tires on them and then stop worrying about it. As an aside, I am selling the Innsbrucks...oh and Victor rates them for winter use...