19 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWhy no owner contempt for Porsche's management?
Leading reported evidence
Clean nose
Suggestion or failed attempt
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
None of the MFGs (especially the ones building interesting/fun cars) have a clean nose.
Leading evidence: 'Clean nose' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean nose' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Even a clean PPI leaves you open to subsequent catastrophic failure.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Not sure where you live, but both my local dealers do PPI's, but there is a point of where they stop inspecting 17 YO classic Porsche model cars for the fact they are protecting their risk associated with inspecting older models.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Not sure where you live, but both my local dealers do PPI's, but there is a point of where they stop inspecting 17 YO classic Porsche model cars for the fact they are protecting their risk associated with inspecting older models.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
So we find and recommend the best Indies and help each other diy.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Not sure where you live, but both my local dealers do PPI's, but there is a point of where they stop inspecting 17 YO classic Porsche model cars for the fact they are protecting their risk associated with inspecting older models.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Not sure where you live, but both my local dealers do PPI's, but there is a point of where they stop inspecting 17 YO classic Porsche model cars for the fact they are protecting their risk associated with inspecting older models.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Just maintenance due to age and miles: suspension, water pump, belt tensioner, wheels, tires, battery, trans mount, oil changes, alignments, diff fluid change, trans fluid change, new seats, on and on, and on.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Just maintenance due to age and miles: suspension, water pump, belt tensioner, wheels, tires, battery, trans mount, oil changes, alignments, diff fluid change, trans fluid change, new seats, on and on, and on.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Just maintenance due to age and miles: suspension, water pump, belt tensioner, wheels, tires, battery, trans mount, oil changes, alignments, diff fluid change, trans fluid change, new seats, on and on, and on.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
19 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Looks like I'm still stuck with an intermix problem no matter what I do.
Just bought a 2000 911 after a PPI only to learn about the intermix problem the hard way.
The IMS bearing is well known and discussed. Bought the car planning to eliminate the IMS problem by installing the IMS Solution.
Looks like I'm still stuck with an intermix problem no matter what I do.
Every Porsche dealer contacted said, in effect, "We no longer do PPIs." Of course they don't, they don't know how to do a competent PPI. The third party mechanic that did my PPI, was well recommended. This is my first, likely only, Porsche, and I already know how to do a competent PPI and will post on YouTube as soon as I can put all the details together.
Porsche can repair, but obviously not inspect, a 911.
That certainly sucks. Sorry your first Porsche went that way
On the bright side, intermix is not the deathblow that it was once believed. While it's not a cheap fix, it's also not at the level of an engine replacement (assuming it is just the head which is the most common cause).
I know that's no consolation to your wallet though
Actually I don't trust a dealer to touch anything older than the current model (and really beyond warranty work I don't trust them that far). At best they are no more knowledgable about previous generations than a good Indy is, but they charge more. I've personally experienced plenty of cases where they had less (like identifying a 996.1 as a 997
).
As far as being upset with Porsche, most 996s aren't being sold through Porsche dealers at this point and even those that are doing see part of the sale going (directly) to PCNA/PAG like new car sales do.
But really, what are you going to do? None of the MFGs (especially the ones building interesting/fun cars) have a clean nose.
Sorry to hear this but not a death blow. The first thing to do is have the car thoroughly flushed out to prevent damage to the many (and expensive) rubber hoses. After that is done you can take your time to decide how you want to proceed.
Provide as many details as you can and people will help find what options are available.
As far calling out Porsche for this - while this issue sucks big-time, it is a 17 year old car after all. I know that's no comfort as it is new to you. Depending on how long you've had it and how many miles you put on since you got it, this issue may have existed before you acquired it. Something to look into.
That's interesting, I haven't seen anyone else post about dealers not doing PPIs. I'm sorry about what happened and I know this doesn't help, but I would do the same thing if I was a dealer. With so many modes of failure on these cars, the inspection is going to have to be really invasive for me to sign off the health of these cars. I've had the most invasive (and expensive) PPI performed on my car and there's still stuff breaking down on my car - and I've only had it for year.
That being said, to paraphrase someone else on the board, these things wouldn't be so cheap if they weren't so ****ty. For the price, these cars are amazing. Well, unless you experience one of the several modes of failure, then I'd be pissed as well.
Edit: I always point people to the IMS Pre-qualification procedure.
http://imsretrofit.com/pre-procedure-qualification/
That sucks and I'm sorry to hear.
But the short answer is that these are 15+ year old cars, and no matter how you slice it, they provide a unique value proposition.
DJW,
The M96 is deeply flawed and vulnerable to lack of maintenance. Read Hartech?
Even a clean PPI leaves you open to subsequent catastrophic failure. So our approach here is mainly -how to fix it, prevent it,upgrade it. Porsche has no interest in these cars or their current owners .Few dealers have young Techs who took the courses on 15 year old cars .The best M96 Techs probably moved on to Indies or other cars. So we find and recommend the best Indies and help each other diy. Porsche really don't figure in our thoughts much. We even avoid their overpriced parts and find generics or adaptations or parts from people like LN.
Just make sure you price the car assuming disaster is just around the corner !
you said "
Every Porsche dealer contacted said, in effect, "We no longer do PPIs." Of course they don't, they don't know how to do a competent PPI. The third party mechanic that did my PPI, was well recommended. This is my first, likely only, Porsche, and I already know how to do a competent PPI and will post on YouTube as soon as I can put all the details together."
Wow, sorry about your luck, not only on the milkshake, but using a 3rd party independent Mech that didn't do you any good either. Highly recommended? If it happened right after buying it it truly must of been just bad luck.
Not sure where you live, but both my local dealers do PPI's, but there is a point of where they stop inspecting 17 YO classic Porsche model cars for the fact they are protecting their risk associated with inspecting older models. If you know how to do a competent PPI why didn't you do it this time?
A lot of people forget dealers are in business to make money first.
Does anyone like paying high prices on parts or service at the dealer? No, but I can share many stories about the dealer sending their trailer 500+ miles to pick up a customers car at the track because the local dealer wouldn't honor the warranty because it was being tracked. Not all of them are evil, you have to weed out the bad ones, The ones that support the local PCA chapter and other events are a benefit to marque.
Sorry to hear about your car
Interested to know more details though did you get it home open up the coolant cap and there it was?
We are just lucky there are companies (like LN) helping to keep these cars running properly.
It's strange that in the US they don't want to do PPIs whilst down here they are promoting that my local OPC is now a "Porsche Classic Center" and I get a discounted labour rate as the 996 is considered "classic".
The problem is that a "true" PPI for these cars is far from a "normal" PPI. It's way more than a $250 job (probably $750 -$1000) is more realistic. And is "engine invasive". This means at the very least pulling the sump plate and bore-scoping the cylinders. Even with this level of invasiveness, It's nearly impossible to determine whether the heads are going to crack and cause an intermix problem... Even given all the stories of failures, I'm pretty sure it's still a fairly low rate of "catastrophic engine failure" (i.e. - engine replacement). Sorry to hear of your misfortunme, but cracked heads are not as bad as once thought - Hoffman Automotive seems to have the fix down pretty well.
https://haminc.wordpress.com/
Good Luck
My last PPI was 750.00
Included a leak down test, pulled sump plate and long road test with real time scan hooked up during drive time along other deep dive PPI checks.
Oh there is plenty of contempt for Porsche management but the reality is owners of 996s have zero leverage, none, to influence Porsche management. So, while we can and do complain, it's not the focus of this board (lately) (plenty of old posts) because it doesn't do any real good.
Schnell - "So our approach here is mainly -how to fix it, prevent it,upgrade it. " that sums it up.
Mantra - there are no cheap Porsches, there are no cheap Porsches, there are no cheap Porsches. You either pay up front ($95k new one) or you pay as you go ($5,000 a year maintaining an old one). YMMV. Some years it's only $2,000 some years it's $7,000.
sorry to hear about the intermix, that really sucks. Even if you can afford the repair it still burns. I have put at least $8,000 into my "cheap" 996 over the last two years and I have not had anything "major" go wrong. Just maintenance due to age and miles: suspension, water pump, belt tensioner, wheels, tires, battery, trans mount, oil changes, alignments, diff fluid change, trans fluid change, new seats, on and on, and on.
Never add up your receipts.
^^lots of wisdom in one paragraph.
Tough luck hitting a pricey fix early OP. Sounds like you made a good attempt at trying to buy informed & lost the m96 lottery. Best wishes finding a good indy to get things back up & running.
New account. First post is about a failure. First post is only post. 24 hours and no responses to questions.
Something smells a tad funny and I believe I see a bridge up ahead...
