The fear is taking hold

After just reading mp2day's track day misfortunes, and having read other track day engine tragedies before I'm wondering how many of you have experienced a failure on the track, and what caused it. I'm hoping to do a DE event at Blackhawk Farms next week (if the weather plays nice and I can get away from work). But quite honestly, the horrible reads too much on the forums fear is taking hold, and now I know I will have sleepless nights with nightmares of engines exploding on my first DE.

You have the deep sump X51 type kit on your car? fresh oil change and clear radiators?

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Good comment by Chris(MA). Most of the track failures I have seen are due to: 1. Smashing into immovable objects (by far the most common mode of failure). 2. Oil starvation. If it's your first event, you won't be skilled enough to generate high Gs for long periods, so not really and issue. 3. Overheating. If you aren't running in the desert with bad rads, you should be fine.

Get the deep sump before you venture on a track. And then have a plan to learn the track and the car. You've got the rest of your life to enjoy doing this so don't try to do it all at the first event. Take advantage of the instruction. Give yourself rev limits...start with something easy like 5000 rpm for the first half of the first day. Then raise it to 5500 for the second half. If it is a two day event, go to 6000 and then 6500 on day two. If it is a one day event then find a way to brake the increments into four periods. Work on feeling the car, listening to the engine, work on your down shift and learning the line. Ignore your speedometer and only think of rpms and gears. Don't think about passing people, instead work on following the instructors and learning their lines. As you come out of every turn and onto a straight, glance at your oil pressure, your engine temp, then wiggle your fingers (to get rid of the death grip) and your toes, and your *** in the seat. Get the blood circulating and breath. Enjoy.

Don't agree, until you get better. Not a bad suggestion though. Agree. Agree Agree Don't agree. Agree Agree Good suggestion. Agree!

I feel ya B-ran. Took my C2 to one HPDE right after buying it. Had a great time, but don't have the stomach to get it back out again. Not ideal, but workable given all the fun roads around here. What I've read on the subject suggests: - use a good oil to give you the best shot of having healthy lubrication even at high temps (XP-9) - low temp thermostat can help keep temps down. 3rd rad kit also helps - deep sump is a plus as stated, though I'm not sure how much more pressure you get in high G situations. Last time I took the 996 on a proper mountain loop I noticed some sharp oil pressure drop offs while chirping around the switchbacks. I made a point to go easy on it coming out of those turns & things returned to normal away from the super tight sections. - if you watch Vandersmith's track videos, you'll probably notice he is very easy on the drivetrain. I'm not sure what rpm he shifts at, but it's obvious he has put a lot of thought into his process. Not only that, he's put a lot of days out of his C4S on the track. Maybe drop a PM for him or raise the question in his thread chronicling his 996 track days. I've seen other references to lowering the rev limit on track to eliminate unnecessarily high oil temps. Maybe some of the guys that have gone down that road can elaborate. Bottom line for me when hooning about is to focus on temps & pressure. If they don't look good, I back off.

Just so you know, I experienced oil pressure drops at Blackhawk last year with street tires (and they are DWS'!) on the back sweeper. 5 or 6 laps into the session, going around the sweeper it would drop to 2.5 bar or so.....and I decided not to run any longer.

Have fun at Blackhawk and don't worry. Then, if you still want to track a car, get a Miata or something else that you will have fun with and still be able to sleep at night.

IMHO, if you really want to rest easy about oil pressure, get a 2 qt Accusump (No affiliation) and call it a day. Other option is stay off the track and stick to the back roads. (my choice) Disclaimer - Backroads ARE more dangerous than track. Speeds are lower than the track, but if you get your line or braking wrong, it won't end well. Tracks don't have trees, guardrails and vehicles going the other way.

Avoid $$$ shift and your car will survive the day.

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So I'm a total noob to this stuff, but yeah ^ this. Rod bolt failure at your first DE is probably SO uncommon. If it helps at all, I'm still really glad I DE'd the car (if you haven't then you have yet to really experience your car) and I'm far from financially in a position where a failure was no big deal for me. It was a huge deal. I financed a 14 year old Porsche (still making payments) and I spent about 5 months figuring out how I was going to pay for the repair that cost more than the car. STILL, no regrets. Could catastrophic failure happen at a DE...? Sure. It could also just have easily happened to me taking the on ramp and trying to get to highway speed. I plan to DE again as soon as I can (thus the reason I chose full rebuild vs say RND crate - more control over the internals). Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist. Maybe my career choice has taught me you can't live your life in fear of the unknown and what you cannot control. But go DE your car as much as you want. Be smart - change the oil after DE events. Maybe do oil analysis (I'm thinking about that). Change your brake fluid at least once a season and use one with a high wet boiling point like SRF. Consider what you can do to prevent oil starvation when you start getting good (I'm a long way out). Get to know the PCA folks who regularly track their cars and talk to them about what makes sense. Even ask them for help on routine maintenance if you want to do it yourself. One of the best pieces of advice I got from PCA folks when my engine blew was "Go talk to that guy Travis over there - he's a genius mechanic with these cars" - he was ultimately the guy I chose to do my rebuild. If you're not mechanic enough to do your own work, use your resources to find someone who is. I picked a guy who builds cars for endurance races for a reason - if you build cars to handle 8 or 24hrs of track pounding, you can probably build a reliable DE car Read a lot (Rennlist anyone?) but be prepared to sift for the gems amongst the dirt. Don't let negatives get you down... these cars are not about negatives. Enjoy your car!

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I chose the 1/2 qt sump add with the X51 style baffle... ground clearance could be an issue. And IMHO, track is MUCH safer than backroads! Track - you've got a coach who knows the track AND your car... you've got a really REALLY good road surface... you've got no surprises coming the other way in your line at a corner... and you're just as likely to have a mechanical failure off track as on under similar circumstances but with many less resources at hand (I had a pro mechanic and a tow truck within minutes, a tow to a shop, and a ride home)

I blew my car up on the track. Rod Bolt stretched. It was 100% my fault. Shifted from 4th to 1st while doing 100. I have been tracking cars for 8 years. Started in a Miata, two e36 M3s and now the 996. Blew the car up at the last event of the season last year. The car had 117K miles on it and was a very well maintained track/daily driver for the previous 10 years before I bought it. Pretty much bone stock other than a FVD deep oil pan/baffle and exhaust. Original IMS, clutch and flywheel. I know that if I had not blown it up, it would still be going. In the off season, I purchased a salvaged 911, and did the transplant. This is not to scare you, but things can and do go bad on the track. If you cannot stomach a large expense due to a failure, wall, or other issue, I suggest starting in something cheaper, and work your way up to the 911. I think I spent the same amount of money on all of the little things I replaced on the new 911 motor as I spent buying my Miata. I hope to always have a track car, but I will never have a track car that will make me feel pain if something goes wrong. Yes it sucked blowing up the motor, but it did not hurt (other than my pride). I've seen too many people go out on the track with a $50K+ car that they still have a loan, and either blow it up, or crash it without insurance. That's not a chance I am willing to take, and it's my advice for others to avoid a situation like that too.

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Adjusted my statement

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Well stated...as a former owner of a track-only car myself I can attest you should never take anything to the track that you are not prepared to walk away from. If you go 4 off and hit something your insurance will not cover you, no matter how much you tell them it was not "racing". If you hit something on the street at least they would cover you. While doing a PCA DE day (or similar) your risk is probably pretty low, anything can happen like a missed shift and such. A missed shift, or oil starvation, or other mechanical stuff could happen off or on track and your insurance would not help you there either way.

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Also, forgot to mention, you can get track insurance to help with the impact side of things. The nice thing about our cars is that it is pretty cheap. I pay about $175 per 3 day event for $24,999 in coverage (it goes up $12 at the $25K mark). I never got it for my previous cars as they were all under $8K in value.

Kris, who are you using for track day policy? $175 is crazy cheap for 3 days.

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that's is crazy cheap. I would totally buy this

I hate to say this out loud - well, to put it into words, at least - but I won't be using my 996 for any driving events more stressful than Qualcomm parking lot PCA autocross (not that I've done one of those in 3+ years now). This is not because I baby the 996 - in fact, I push the car hard every time I drive it because THERE'S A 911 IN MY GARAGE EVERY MORNING. What I am seeing is that this is a numbers game. Do lots of M96-powered cars see track time successfully with no problems? Sure - in fact, BOTH of mine have done time on everything from parking lot courses to "big" tracks. With the exception of poor Cuda911, though, the majority of failures I have access to (which of course is limited to what's posted online, which may or may not be representative of the population as a whole) seem performance-related. I have two vehicles that perform at more-or-less equivalent levels. We know what it will cost to put a new or fully rebuilt motor in my 996; for 10-20% of that cost, I can drop a new crate motor into my Corvette and STILL come out ahead as far as power and reliability. The rear end on the C4 (running through an auto transmission with racing packs, the trans pressure dialed up so high it bleeds fluid during AX runs, and a D44 rear-end with Jeep gearing, and a full D44 batwing upgrade including new shafts) will probably take 600HP with only some minor mounting point and suspension upgrades (I'm not keeping those composite springs on the car with 2x power going down). When I got the car, the Corvette was the car I wanted to keep forever (being in my family since new, my mom's dream car). I will still keep the 'Vette forever, but I have come to enjoy the 996 as much in most ways and far more in a couple, and I want to preserve the 996 for as long as I can before I have to make that heart-wrenching decision to sell it as a roller (or, more likely, the nearly as painful decision to drop 1/3 the cost of my first home into a new motor)... Given the cost of C4 and C5 Corvettes, Miatas, and other cars that make up pretty much the entire autocross leaderboard for SCCA, it makes more sense to me to acquire a track car that is more affordable to service. When I'm dreaming I'm The Stig, am I driving my black 911, or am I driving a stripped, faded red Miata? Not the latter. You can also BUY a Spec Miata from the Mazda parts counter for less than the cost of buying and track prepping a 996 - let alone the cost of having a spare engine on the trailer... None of this is an indictment of the 996. It's a machine - in fact, it's on the way to being an antique machine, and I think we can agree that the only machines that never break are the ones that never get used. There comes a time when you evaluate a possession and determine in what way it is worth the most to you. For me, having my 996 as-is - intact interior, pretty much stock, easy on the eyes - is worth more to me than the experience of tracking it. When I need a car to REALLY flog, it'll be the one I can most easily afford to correctly repair. Sorry for the novella. Apparently, handling the spare tire in a 996 is a more common muse than I would have imagined.

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I am using Lockton: https://locktonmotorsports.com/ There is a 10% PCA discount (worth having the $46 membership). This is for HPDEs, on the East Coast. The prices is a little bit different on each track that I go to, but have never paid above $195 for $24,999 in coverage. I also have friends that have had to use the insurance and payout was very quick.

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Do those policies actually pay out? I have always thought they would find a way "out" in the event of an on track accident especially if it is the driver's fault (lost control, bad line, lifted mid corner, etc) vs if another driver hits you. Just curious.

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Yes. 100%. I does not matter what causes the incident. They pay out. I know someone who crashed a 2015 GTI due to severe lack of talent and he had a check minus the deductible within a week. I know someone else who lost brakes on a C6 ZO6 hit a berm, and flipped. Had a check within a week. Both cars were totaled. There is either a 10% or 15% deductible (your choice). Prices do go up based on the value you want to insure. Insuring a $100K car is $900ish. BTW, I do not work for any of these companies.

You hear about failures, simply because in a forum failures make you want to post something. Majority of the 996's are excellent track cars, particularly for the novice and intermediate. Right out of the box. No mods. OEM oil, sump, etc. Your fist DE? Just make sure your car is street worthy, all maintenance up to date, buy a helmet, listen to your instructor, and go for it. No fear, no worries, no need to do anything else I've been doing multiple tracks, more than 100 days on a half dozen tracks, from Mosport to VIR, in my 996 C4S. No reliability issues. Here's one of my vids to get you started: You Tube

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I hear that some insurance companies pay out for a crash, but not all pay for a mechanical failure (if the wheel bearing or clutch fails). True?

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That is true. Insurance is for a crash only. I do not know of a company that covers for any sort of mechanical. Now, if a tire blowing causes a crash, you would be covered.

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This is good advice. And how I could sleep at night. And why I said to get a cheap reliable car... Racing or tracking is just plain expensive in general, even for a cheap car. Now add in the word Porsche and costs triple.

I've been quoted by Lockton, don't recall the exact price but I think it was in the 250-300 range for 1 day not 3.. with $5000 deductible. I may have placed a higher dollar amount but not by much. I would gladly cough up 300 for 3 days, that's a great deal for piece of mind at the track. Ill look into it again next track event. thanks

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Great video! But as shown, anything can happen. One misfortune with that rain could have resulted in a different outcome.

Ok, just did a sample policy with Lockton, $24,500 coverage with 10% deductible at HMS = $180 for one day event. So in line with what Kris says BUT per day not for 3 days how I see it. Kris you sure you were covered for all 3 days of your event?

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LOL this is why at the track you frequently see guys with $200K tow rigs pulling two $10K Miatas.

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Yes, I believe it is the same price if you do 1 day, or 3. Below is a screenshot of my cart (all of this talk reminded me that I needed to buy insurance from my upcoming event).

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Lol, reminds me of a tax loophole that once existed (it may still exist) allowing a person to deduct the value of a diamond ring that was lost due to an accident that caused the ring to fly off during said accident. Still, the track insurance might be worth it even though it's expensive. For those tracking weekly, it's different. But just a few events per year seems like a no-brainer

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So, in other words, if you money-shift or see massive smoke coming out, immediately head towards a wall.

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Yeah. I do about 7 events a year. So it is about $1,200. I became an instructor at about the same time as I started to get insurance. My entry fees were cut in half as an instructor, so the insurance is pretty much a wash. I never got insurance for my miata ($2500) or my M3s ($8K), but it makes sense to me to do it for the 911.

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LOL. I wrote this exact thing when I originally wrote the post, but deleted it. I didn't want to give an insurance company any ammo for denying a claim....

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rightttttt

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Kris, looks like you have the start date but not the end date on that quote. Meaning the quote is only for June 23 not the 24 or 25th. I only did a quote for one day if you have 3 day event you should double check amigo. I cant believe they insure for 175 over 3 days, just doesn't add up?

So OP have we confused you enough??? Are you gonna drive that 911 or what?

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Hardback, take a look within the blue rectangle where it says HPDE Insurance in the center of the page, with the full three days quoted. Also, on the final confirmation it has all three days. Below is a screenshot of my past policies. Notice how they are all for 3 days.

Your right. That's incredible.... I just went thru the application again for 2 days at Sebring and you are right $180. Finally affordable HPDE insurance. This changes things. More seat time in my future for sure.

I actually purchased the same policy for track night in America event this Thursday at CMP. I asked the question on what's covered and what's not. I am not affiliate to any insurance company just happened to purchase this for a event and asked the question. Please ask the detail when you purchase as things could change and I don't know if the coverage is always the same. Here is what I heard back from lokton: Regardless who's at fault, this cover only the policy holder's car up to the value quoted minus deductible. If mechanical failure causes a crash, insurance will cover the crash minus the mechanical damage. if your engine blew and crash into the wall, they will cover the damage of crashing into the wall but not the engine. If the brake fails and you run into the wall, they cover again the damage to the car hitting the wall but not the brake. If other vehicle(s) are involved, they are not covered under this policy. I guess they will have adjuster to come check out the damage?! How do they determine the brake failed caused the crash or the brake was damaged after hitting the wall. But I figure they have a way to figure things out.

How does the track insurance work if you crash? Does this get reported to DMV as an accident? Does accident get reported anywhere?

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LOL. Funny how threads take on a life of their own.

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well said. Took my stock C2 on HP AS tires to lime rock for a DE event and couldn't even get the tires to chirp. The car has so much ability that I as a novice couldn't get close to. It's really quite amazing considering the age. I got a pass on a couple newer boxsters. Also these events in my experience are very safe but you have to be prepared to eat the cost of your car in a worst case scenario(or opt for insurance)... I don't know how people in 2015,2016 911s could track em (nice to have deep pockets) hats off to em great video and fantastic driving 👍🏻👍🏻

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Dude. I wouldnt thread the wheel through you hands like that. Hook your thumbs on the spokes and use your arms. When you get faster you are going to have to correct for slides which means you have to instantly countersteer very hard. You will never be able to do it by shuffling your hands.

Nice vid, but never put your hands together when turning.

Pretty healthy discussion on risk. Palting - Your car sounds great! Thanks for sharing that video.

At first I was a little shocked, and then disappointed, when I started to read the threads about tracking my 996 after I bought it. Prior to purchasing it, I did what I thought was adequate due diligence regarding the weaknesses of the car so I could make an informed purchase. I knew about the IMSB and bore scoring. I knew engine rebuilds are expensive. I bought a coupe with a 6-speed on purpose, because I want to track it. What I didn't know about were the additional types of failures you could experience on the track due to oil starvation, weak rod bolts, and even overheating. I grew up in the 70s and 80s when 911s were some of the dominant race cars. I envisioned myself hustling abound the track in my 996 enjoying its racing pedigree. I have gotten to the point where I don't care anymore. I paid cash for the car and if I blow it up, so be it. I will make modifications and be smart about it, because I don't what the engine to fail if I can avoid it, but there are some failure modes that cannot be avoided. Deep sumps and baffles can mitigate some of the oil starvation conditions, but what the car really needs is a dry sump system. There are some cooling system mods that can resolve the cooling issues, although I think a cracked head is still a possibility on my M96-01 engine. There is really nothing you can do about the weak rod bolts without a very expensive disassembly and rebuild, other than avoiding an over-rev condition. The local PCA club has track events coming up in August and November. I am going to run the snot out of it. If it dies, I will park it in the garage and figure out what I want to do with the carcass. I will not be denied my fantasy.

Definitely some great responses. Can't say my fears have been diminished. My car is 99 C2. Pretty stock aside from being lowered and a cone air filter. So no x51 pan or accusump yet. Altimately I bought the car to enjoy it, but also want to enjoy it for a long time without having to put in a new engine or rebuild the engine for more than I paid for the car. The points some made about never taking a car to the track that you can't walk away from did make an impact. Obviously the good doctor made these cars to be driven in a certain fashion, although with all the horror stories on the web of engine's blowing and a million modes of failure, you would definitely think they made the engine from blown glass and said a quick prayer hoping it would make it off the showroom floor. While I haven't done any track driving, she has been flogged pretty good for extended periods of time on the tail of the dragon and blue ridge parkway, trying to keep up with my brother's cayman s and my dad's 997 (I know, the family has an expensive addiction) and the car performed well, except for some unnerving high temps on the tail of the dragon. After returning home from that trip I cleaned the rads out and put in a new water pump and thermostat (albeit the stock temp thermostat) and haven't had any scary needle moving too far to the right moments since, though on hot days the needle does creep more to the right than my Boxster S ever did and I'm still not entirely comfortable with it. Cuda and Johnireland, some great advice, thanks! I would definitely probably be taking it fairly easy for my first DE (at least I imagine I would be unless that inner Clarkson comes out and screams "POWERRRRRR!") Tony, I'll definitely try to find his videos! And certainly keeping track of the temps and oil pressure. Hardback. Definitely not money shifting is high on my priorities, always haha I've heard more than a few stories of that tragedy and hope to god I never make that mistake. Mp2day. Dude, I seriously admire your good attitude after what happened. Again, my condolences! And if you don't mind my asking, what is your profession? 5CHN3LL I definitely understand what you're saying. While I have no intentions right now of turning my car into a track car I do really like the idea of exploring what it can do on the track. The mental evaluations of risk are tough to balance in my mind right now. I bough the darn thing to enjoy it. But I also bought it in the hopes of keeping it for years. If the worst happens I'd have to evaluate some tough choices like buying a new engine or putting off other goals. Sadly I am not wealthy. Merely a peasant that enjoys imprudent financial decisons like german autos. Also, my spare tire is currently collecting dust in the garage. Plating, awesome video! That track looks like a ton of fun! Thanks for sharing! You mentioned you've done over 100 track events. What sorts of thing have you done to the car in terms of mods? I've heard from others (outside of the inter webs) how the 996 is a great car to take in stock form to the track, beat the snot out of it, pick up some groceries and then drive home. And then from others that proclaim after a few laps of wringing it out the poor thing will give up the ghost like the old tired and poorly designed work horse they claim it is. Even years before I bought my first P car, a Boxster S, I was always under the impression people beat the crap out of them on the track all the time without issues. Only after entering the Porsche world and being introduced to the forums did I come to realize that there were far more issues aside from the good ole IMS bearing. Whew. Sorry for the super long post. Didn't realize I'd gotten this many replies!

I might add.... until it overheated at Festival of Speed and possibly blew a head gasket (still in the process of diagnosing things), my '99 Boxste' had 169,000 highly abused miles on it. Many track events. The only mod I did was the deep sump oil pan and baffle. The mod I should have added was third radiator, which I recently put into my '03 track Boxster. So yes, these cars can take a lot of abuse. There are lots of guys that track cars in stock form without the car grenading. A few track events here and there should be fine, in my opinion. If you go heavy into tracking, more mods are appropriate. As said above, though, never track a car that you can't afford to lose. The odds of losing it are low, though, so depends on how much of a gambling man you are. Palting: Excellent saltwater tank!

Ok, I've listened to Palting's YT video about 5x now while working. Anyone know his exhaust setup? Because racecar

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You have 100% the right attitude for tracking your car. Go for it!!

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Nice. And agree. Tracks are safer for high speed driving. I saw a GT3 go off track and hit the tire wall pretty hard. It was unfortunately considerable damage to the vehicle, but both occupants were fine. Trees and guard rails are not so forgiving.

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I can't argue with you about the cost of a M96 engine rebuild. It's more than a new Miata. I will DE my car again after rebuild - at least that's my plan... but if I really decide to do lots more track time, a Spec Miata would be a much less $ alternative I think... we'll see. For that matter, a Spec Boxster isn't that expensive and generally engines are cheaper to find.

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I'm a sergeant in the Army... financially comfortable, but by no means affluent. I'd say I wish I'd bought my car years ago but to be honest events came together that allowed me to recover from catastrophe with more ease than would have been possible earlier in my life. For sure, the smart thing to do is NOT track a vehicle you can't afford to lose. In my situation, the P-car is a third car for us, and if I made payments on a roller for the next few years, as much as it would suck we wouldn't be devastated.

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LMAO - the day after my engine blew, my coworker asked why I didn't just wall it

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Am I seeing the oil pressure gauge drop to about 2 during some of the corners in your vid?

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I just watched the video.....and yes, the oil pressure gauge is dropping on almost every corner, come out of the corner, it returns to 4 or 5 bar. Same thing would happen on my car but only on one corner at Blackhawk. This is why I would not continue running my car. As someone mentioned before, they thought this was from foaming or something in the oil bath, sure makes sense to me.

^^ Correct. This happens to a lot of these cars. Some replace the oil pan with one that has better baffles, some replace the pickup in the oil pump, etc. But how one user was able to fix this issue was with a switch to different oil. Which suggests that the issue is caused by foaming/aeration... I found that quite interesting, since I would have expected that most oils shouldn't have this problem.

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I wonder if the car in the video has a deep sump or not. Would be a bummer to still see such drops even w/ a deep sump, baffles and pickup extension in place.

I have read a few of the blown engine threads. Many times its a high mileage car with multiple prior owners. I would suspect if you ran a high mile Honda on the track you might find a weak piont or two. My thought is always this. If I cant afford to replace or rebuild my ride dont take it to the track. I came to this conclusion only after righting off more than one track car.

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I agree this is a big reason I am not going back to the track with my new-to-me Porsche until I have installed a deep sump, gone thru the cooling system, and replaced my AOS which tests weak.

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It can still happen with a deeper sump, baffles and pick up extension. I have all of that on my 996, and it was happening my last time on the track. Just on two turns. Would start about 10-12 minutes into a run session. I'm running Joe Gibbs XP9. At the time, I had about 800 miles on the oil which is more than they recommend, but over half of it were street miles (I ended up having to drive to a track weekend instead of towing), so I thought I was safe. I think it may have just been that the oil was at the end of its life. And I got off the track as soon as it started to happen. I'm back out at the track next weekend so I see if the new oil does the trick. If not, I'll drop the pan again and see of maybe some sealant is stuck in the pick-up.

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The reason why I doubt your issue was oil age/cleanliness is because I ran brand-new 15-50 Mobil 1 oil at my track event and saw the same pressure drops in long sweeping turns. And the oil that came out of my car prior to this oil change was still clear and had only 1500 miles on it. The oil was still clean, clear, and the filter had zero items in it. Then I drained and replaced it immediately before the track event.

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I tend to agree with you, but it could still be possible. The XP9 is only rated for 500 track miles. Also, the previous event on the oil was at Shennadoah at Summit Point which has 22 turns vs the 5 turns that were at the Pocono track I was running where it started to happen. Pressures were always between 4-5 on the first track. Also, the fact that it started after 10 minutes makes me think it could be the older oil reacting to the heat. We'll see next weekend.

Just pick up a dedicated 996 for a track car.

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I'll be there with my boxster (NJMP). I have the Tune RS 2 quart deep sump with horizontal baffle, EBS steel vertical baffle, and full flow filter adapter. I run 15w-50 Mobil 1. Beyond these mods, I'm not sure what else can be done short of a dry sump (that costs more than my boxster) or an accusump, which seems like an *** pain. Say hi if you see me

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Quadcammer, what color car/number, and what run group? I'm the head of safety for RTR, so I'll be the one giving you your tech sticker.

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Having spent a fair amount of time on the track in the past I can say that the last thing I am watching as I concentrate on the correct line, apex, downshift, braking points is the oil pressure gauge. I figure if I can watch that I am driving way too far below the limit. I usually have the habit of doing a gauge check at the start of each straight away run. Deep breath, check gauges, check gear, relax hands/wrists, focus on the braking point at the end of the straight...but at that point the oil pressure drop would be back up and I would not see it. I also agree w/ above I doubt your oil age had much to do with it. I have always thought synthetics tend to maintain pretty consistent viscosity across temps and mileage (within reason). So the "money" question is did the deep sump help your oil pressure, or should we not bother to install one b/c the pressure drop occurs either way? I previously owned a Lotus track only car and I had a special oil sump with all sorts of trap doors around the pickup to keep oil around the pickup under high G turns....does anyone make a similar sump baffle w/ trap doors for the 996?

Quotes source post: 14257473

I got into the habit of checking the oil pressure and temp ALOT this season since I blew up my motor last season (my fault), and I am keep a very watchful eye on everything since I'm still not sure if I trust the mechanic (me). To answer the $$$ question, I have always had the deeper sump/baffle since I started tracking this car so I don't know for sure that it helps, but I assume it does. Since solutions can be had for under $250, I think it is cheap insurance. I think even the stock baffle has a flap that acts as a trap for the oil. These cars are by no means the only ones that have this issue. I had to install a baffle system into my E36 M3 for the same issue, and that is nowhere near as easy to do. Also needed a second fuel pump since in long sweeping right hand turns all of the fuel would go to the left side, and it would be starved for fuel.

Quotes source post: 14257545

For sure, I had to run a baffled pan, a fuel surge pump, and an accusump on my Lotus track car to keep from getting fuel and oil starve. I read very little about fuel starve issues on the 996 so I guess that's not a typical concern.

Quotes source post: 14257377

Ah, silver, car number 11. I'm in green. At shenendoah, I was the one jerryrigging my AOS/catch can arrangement after the smoke show I put on when my AOS gave up.

Quotes source post: 14257672

Ahh yes! Home Depot to the rescue! Cool. See you there. I've the red 996 with Aero Wing and the Douche Carrera badge #151.

Quotes source post: 14257672

Hey, can you post what you did, in case this happens to me at the track?

Checking gauges on straight away is the only time I will glance at gauges and thats if not in a battle to overtake a car. If you have time to look anywhere else on the track you are driving not racing around the track! At least on a stock 911 with factory dials.

Quotes source post: 14258882

Sorry, Need to disagree with out here. Once you know a track it is very easy to have set places where you check things, like Mirrors, Flags, Dials, where other cars are, etc. Saying you can't focus on anything other than where you are in the turn is a scary thing to be saying. Your eyes should already be looking at the next turn, or up the straight. As you are changing your focus, to the next turn, take a look at the dials. This is especially easy for long sweeping turns.

Quotes source post: 14258847

sure. So I got the big poof of white smoke on the 3 to 4 shift coming out of a left hander. Car immediately started running a bit lumpy. I took the intake and plenum tubes off to get the oil out of the manifolds. Then I purchased an air compressor filter at home depot, cut the J-tube and put the compressor filter inline. It helped me get another couple sessions, but the car would still smoke after about 15 minutes. Here are pics of the jerry rigged solution, and my new catch can which I installed with a new oem AOS: 20170409_082358_zpswm5gxgiy.jpg 20170507_130709_zpsxuotscfe.jpg

I mentioned doing away with the aos and rigging up a catch can. No one seemed to say anything about this.

Quotes source post: 14259224

I won't argue the points or merits of when to check gauges, but the whole reason to check gauges is to make sure the car is operating correctly, safely, etc. In an ideal scenario, temps and pressures should not be something we should have to worry about.

Quotes source post: 14259606

There have been some threads about this in the past. There are many things the AOS does, including creating a vacuum pressure differential that lowers the boiling point of water so that accumulated water in the oil can escape faster. And the engine was designed with AOS in mind. That said, the biggest reason is emissions - vapors that pollute or poison can be burned and come out of the tailpipe much cleaner than if they escaped into the atmosphere.

Quotes source post: 14259687

Agree 100%, we should not have to worry about it. But taking a glance to make sure there is not an issue is better than blowing the motor, dumping oil and ruining someone else's day.

Quotes source post: 14257290

There is a reason why Porsche Motor Sports did not use the M96 engine in its race cars...the engine wasn't made for it. You can make a 996 into a track car, and you can have a lot of fun. But the various band aids and prayers will never make the engine what it isn't designed for.

Fie and a pox. I have many friends that routinely track their 996 with no issues. Hotrod, when you move back to O'side, give me a shout and I'll introduce you to the track rats here. We have a very active and great bunch of track folks. You will get plenty of track time.

Quotes source post: 14261207

Cuda knowing how much time you spend on the track I'm definitely reassured with what you say. Oh and please go hit up the Ballast Point tasting room for me. I'm missing an ice cold Sculpin on those perfect socal nights

Cuda, thanks, yes for sure sounds like good times.

Quotes source post: 14259224

Youre the guy I pass often as you are watching your tach, mirror and dials. As I drive by I usually adjust the AC and smile.

Sculpin is vastly over-rated. There are many better choices here.

My Accusump

Quotes source post: 14262844

Victory at Sea: my all time fav porter. A truly amazing beverage

Quotes source post: 14262844

When I first moved to San Diego, I rolled into town in my Boxster, loaded up with all my stuff, and didn't know where I was going. I told myself I was not going to stop until I hit the ocean. Well I ended up in PB, magically found a parking spot right at the end of Garnet Ave, walked out onto the pier to see the Pacific for the first time, and then I went to find a beer. I told the bartender to give me something good and local, and Sculpin was the one he gave me. So it being my first beer in San Diego, it kind of stayed my favorite for a couple of years.

Quotes source post: 14264990

I first found Sculpin at the other side of the country on tap at a bar downtown in Athens, GA. I intended to try a variety of beers that night but once I tried the Sculpin, I couldn't make myself change to something different (and probably not nearly as good). It isn't my fav IPA or fav Ballast Point beverage, but it sure is a worthy beer.

Quotes source posts: 14254402, 14254504, 14257083

Just got back on this thread, sorry for the late reply. List of relevant mods: Porsche lowering kit for the C4S (X74) TPC stage 3 suspension GT3 lower arms front Porsche Sport exhaust installed aftermarket, wired open all the time. Fabspeed 200 cell sport cats. The OEM cats don't last long on track. Porsche Tequipment roll bar. Porsche Recaro racing buckets. Ferrodo Racing pads. No mechanical issues to date at 63,000 miles. Drive it on the highways to and from the track. Still use it for groceries once in a while See above, plus had the microphone on the rear license plate Never really noticed that until you mentioned it. It's a stock sump, car is on R compound DOT tires, plus the suspension mods and racing brake pad, making the car generate significant G forces on braking and corners. Car has maybe 30,000 track miles on it, with no issues, so I don't know if that brief drop to 2 barr means anything. Maybe it would on the long curved banks of, say, Daytona. I certainly would not recommend slicks with the M96 engine, though. For the OP, his first time on track, it should not be an issue at all.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing

Palting, just to be clear I understand this, you have done 30,000 track miles in your 996, no oil mods, and have oil pressure drops in the turns and seemingly no known damage, issues, or rebuilds?

Also (Palting) stock AOS?

Quotes source posts: 14268048, 14268132

Yes to both, although guessing on the 30,000 miles. Car has 63,000 miles now, and I'd guess about half of that is track miles. When I first got on the forum back in 2002, lots of 996 owners were tracking their cars with no specific mods. Stock, as-is. And that went on for at least 5-6 years. After being out of these forums the last several years, when I came back a few weeks ago I was quite surprised by all the posts about using a different oil, modified AOS, etc, etc, etc. to make these cars "track worthy". As far as I'm concerned, they were and are track worthy straight out of the box. Not as good as the turbos or the GT3's, but good enough for the average track rat. I actually came back to these boards since I'm looking to get into trading the 2002 C4S for a a 2018 GT3, and looked into the 996 forum out of nostalgia.

Quotes source post: 14268350

Oooooh... drool. The new GT3 looks to be a baaaad MF!

Yeah, but there is a question of when I can get one, mp2day. I held on a little too long to the C4S to be high on the list of priorities for allocation. First priority goes to the gazilionaires that bought the 918, next are those trading in their 997's and even 991.1's. Me and my 15 y.o. C4S that's track car transformed going for trade in for the GT3 doesn't exactly make the dealers drool and put me at the top of the list. So, as per my signature, I've got my fingers, eyes, legs, and ears crossed.