Need advice on whether to buy a 996.

First post guys, thanks for reading. I want to know your opinion on a car that I have found. It is a 2000 996 C4 6 speed. Viola metallic. It has been sitting in a mechanic's yard for 7 years. The car needs a transmission and the owner never would put the money together to have it replaced. The car runs and drives but there is a terrible sound from the transmission, especially when coasting in gear (goes away when push in clutch). The driver's seat is stuck all the way back. It has some light body damage from being pushed around the yard so many times. I also saw some evidence of previous paint and bodywork on the driver's quarter panel. Interior is in decent shape. I think the car could be had for about $7,000. My intentions would be to daily it with occasional track use.

Multiple variables on this one. Welcome to the forum and if you actually buy it are you then willing to fork over more money for re-pairs and fixes $$$$. Also are yourself able to roll up your sleeves and do some of the work yourself? It all would depend on the time, money and the mechanical state of the car and things you would be willing to do. Remember with these cars the lower you pay to acquire usually translates to the more you will fork over to fix. With the Porsche brand name (it will cost more) for parts and services (mechanic labor rates) so I would be thinking of a those aspects. But hey if you want the car why the hell not go for it. I bought mine with the intent to disassemble, fix and drive. But mine was in decent shape already when purchased. Plus I had most of the european specialty tools, mechanical skills and resources to take on the project. Definitely get a good PPI is what i would recommend. The car itself is fun as hell to drive, not going to lie there so no regrets. But truthfully in the end it is truly your choice, since it will be your time, your money and feeling of satisfaction on the line.

What does a new transmission cost? What info do you have on the engine?

I agree that you need to be prepared to spend some cash and/or elbow grease to get it going to be road worry and to be happy. I found mine (was super lucky) for $8500 and it was running fine. But to put things into perspective, I has an indie to the RMS/IMS/AOS and I am doing brakes and caliper rebuild, a bunch of simple mods like lights and stuff, short shifter, fixing the fuel evap system, All drop links, replace coolant tank, motor mounts, gundo hack, 997 airbox and shift **** and I am into it for 10K above what I paid for. But I have a passion for hobby cars so it's about the love of it vs the value.

I can do some mechanical work. But I would probably pay someone to swap the transmission. The mechanic who is storing the car said he'd swap it for $600. I thought that would be worth it. I have found transmissions (used) from between $1500 to $2500. Haven't priced a new one. I have already done the cheap Porsche thing and I definitely know that a cheep Porsche is an expensive mistake. But for 7 grand, it seems that there is a lot of margin to have a great car, especially one that I wouldn't mind beating on at the track.

Seems like it probably depends on your budget and the state of the engine. $7k is about what a decent roller (i.e. trashed engine) seems to go for. I don't know what a transmission rebuild would cost, but there are probably a few threads on here that would give you an idea. You might be able to contact a Porsche specific transmission rebuilder like Gbox and get an idea of the worst case cost for a replacement transmission. That said, if you buy the car for $7k and put the same amount into transmission rebuild, clutch, and the usual "while you're in there" items, you could come away with a pretty nice car for 14 grand. It's important to bear in mind that we're talking about an 18 year old car, and there may be maintenance and wear items that need to be addressed. Find out as much as you can about how the car has been maintained. And before you go too far, figure out what your all-in budget really is.

Can you afford to write off the $? If so go for it. If not wait until you can. JMO. GL.

I bought mine several months ago as a non-driver, but I did get to look it over thoroughly and listen to the engine run. I suspected it had a bad ground and a bad alternator, which it did. You will probably find, like I did, that there will be a list of little things you find to fix and replace. The list of parts I have been creating as I go is literally about a page long. I figure that by the time I replace the IMSB with the IMS Solution, replace the chain guides, water pump, and all the other maintenance items I want to do in the near future, I will probably spend an additional 7k above the 11.5k I spent to buy the car. Since my car had the electrical issue, I did buy it a little below market, so I feel comfortable where I will be dollar wise. Having said all this, I drove the car about an hour ago, did a couple of second gear pulls to 6500 rpm and they put a smile on my face. I really enjoy driving the car. Based on the info you have given us about your car, the things that would bother me most include the body damage, since little dings and dents could be expensive to repair, and the condition of the engine, since that's where all the money is. If the engine is truly solid, it's probably worth 6k just for the engine. Is there any way he would let you change the oil where you can cut open the filter and inspect it for metal particles? If you find more than a few very small non-ferrous particles in the filter, I would pass on the deal. Having him put a good used transmission in for $600 is not a bad deal, if he does quality work. If you buy the transmission from a recycler, the oil will be drained prior to shipping. The Porsche oil isn't cheap.

Im sure I can do the oil change idea. Thats good advice. I have a good relationship with the mechanic and Im sure that he would be willing to allow me to do that. Any other way to test the motor? I drove the car for less than a mile, but it did fine during that time. The body damage is two dents on the passenger door and fender. I think they could be worked out with paintless dent removal.

While the car is parked and running, stick your head up under the rear bumper behind the tires. Listen for a ticking noise, kind of like a diesel truck. A healthy engine will have a very soft ticking noise and it will sound the same, with the same volume, on both sides. There are some youtube videos of 996s with "bore scoring" you may want to listen to. Other than the IMSB failure, bore scoring appears to be the second most common catastrophic failure. Search the 996 forum. there are some true experts on this site that know a lot about the engines and have a lot of experience.

You can buy a driver in better shape for not much more. The worst thing about this car is that it's been sitting for so long...

Quotes source post: 14247873

True. I have seen some decent cars for around 13k, or I should say "cars that appear to be decent". Almost every 996 is a little bit of a crap shoot.

A boroscope would show scored cylinder liners correct? Well anyways I see that everyone is not really impressed by the selling price. It is purple after all. I think the lack of excitement over the price tells me what I need to know.

Pictures are worth a 1000 more words!

You are headed for heartbreak and bankruptcy if you buy this car. I would never start an engine that has been sitting in a lot for seven years. The gas in the tank is loaded with crap that now just got sucked into the fuel system. All the rubber on the car is now trash. Hoses belts seals gaskets, etc., plus the clams should be replaced. By now mice have been eating the wiring harness. The grease has dried out on the wheel bearings. The waterpump, the brake and clutch master cylinders, the steering rack, all need to be serviced or replaced, the shocks are already dead or will be as soon as the car starts being driven, all the other rubber in the suspension system is toast, all the fluids need to be changed. And now you can start thinking about replacing the transmission. And now you can think about the body work...and a paint job. Have we talked about the interior? Oh yes, one of the seat motors isn't working, but how good are all the other electrical motors in the car, the windows, the window sensors...they haven't worked for seven years as well so the health of the lubrication in them is also suspect. Just sitting in a yard for seven years is harder on a car than if it had been driven all those years. Why pay seven thousand dollar for the right to spend at the very least double if not triple that amount? The only reason to buy that car is because you don't really want to drive, but rather you are looking for a project that will give you amusement on your weekends for the next five or six years.

Ditto on above. If you like a project this could be one; still I think you can find better ones if that is your goal. I think you can flip the discussion and ask yourself if all the necessary work is done to have the car in drivable state again what would it be worth? 12k? Because it did not run for 7 years so likely there is stuff to be fixed you don't know about yet. So what is then the value of what is currently for sale?, 3-4K?

I'm afraid JI is correct on this one! If you're just looking for a project that will take a long time to sort out, and you don't mind spending countless hours and money on that car is for you. I wouldn't pay more than roller money for it, because more than likely that's what it is - or will be shortly... buyer beware!!!

Every time I buy a project car, I end up regretting it. Every. Freaking. Time.

If this car was remotely close to a "good deal," I would have expected THE MECHANIC to have undertaken this project already. He obviously already knew years ago that it was NOT worth his time/money/energy/grief, etc.

These are all around the country https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=177736837

My guess is you think you are buying "a cheap Porsche." Let me tell you that animal does not exist in the wild. Viola metallic, sitting for 7 years, transmission problems, body damage, driver seat stuck, prior damage, owner refused to put any money into it... HOLY FREAKING SHEETS - you are about to purchase a very very expensive Porsche.

Do this with it

Quotes source post: 14248503

I agree with kromdom, the biggest red flag to me is why is the mechanic not swapping trans and selling the car. If if you can get a solid reasonable answer to that then buy it. I agree that you may be able to find a solid car for the same end money, but sometimes that is borning.

Quotes source post: 14248537

I really have no horse in this race -- and personally, I would probably walk away from that $7k car. But, the potential problem with all those $15k 996's out there is that you still have to find one that has been properly maintained. Otherwise, you can drop 3 to 5k on deferred maintenance items ... and end up spending about what a decent car would cost anyway.

Quotes source post: 14248503

Probably true. Although I had an interesting conversation recently with the owner of a local auto repair business. He was telling me about the number of cars -- a surprising number, at least to me -- that have been abandoned by owners who brought them in for repairs and then just walked away. Like most shops, he'll start assessing a storage fee seven days after the owner is asked to pick up the car -- whether it has been repaired or the owner has elected not to repair it. After a month, he sends a registered letter to the owner detailing the storage charges. At some point, the storage cost reaches the point where he can file a lien on the car. I know that he has had complete and partial cars in this process for years ... maybe not seven years, though I think he said he'd had some things sitting around for almost that long. The upshot? He hates to do this. He says - and I believe him - that he really doesn't want to take ownership of cars, doesn't want to put time and money into cars for sale, and doesn't particularly want to sell cars. Obviously, everyone runs their business differently, and I'm sure the laws governing this stuff vary state to state ... but it may simply be that the OP's mechanic let this car sit for a while because he was too busy to file the lien, and then just couldn't be bothered putting his own time and money into it. It's easier for him to sell it as is, and he turns a profit either way. Why he didn't do that years ago is anyone's guess -- but I can understand why he might not have done any repairs.

Quotes source post: 14248805

Absolutely plan on spending 3-5K in this price range. But a driving project car is better to start with than the one being discussed. A thorough PPI is a must. There are several under $20K that look like good buys as well.

Quotes source post: 14247689

From your description one can not say that this is a transmission problem. If I remember Auto Shop 1a, the clutch is between the engine and the transmission. So the transmission is still turning when you push in the clutch. I'm not sure what that means, but the solution may be more simple than you think. Maybe the clutch or clutch bearings. Maybe even an LSD problem. Someone who knew more about transmissions would probably drive the car and note if the noise changes with acceleration, deceleration and cornering, with and without throttle

Quotes source post: 14248805

Even if you get a good $15k car (mine was $14.8k and so far no scored bores, no cracks, very low oil consumption, good mileage etc) you still have to drop money in. After driving it 6 miles from where I bought it, I spend $2500 just on parts and tools (my labor, so free) before I comfortably drove it... It still needs some minor things...

Quotes source post: 14247689

If you end up buying it, I have a transmission available out of a 2000 C4. PM me if interested.

i bought a running car with higher miles for 6500 a couple years ago. offer him 5k

I think he is passing on this car. Lock it down!

Quotes source post: 14248537

Do you think this car is a good buy or worth buying?

Quotes source post: 14251932

If the car has the original suspension, add $4,000 for that one update alone. Then be ready to do another $3,000 in who-knows-what maintenance over the next 6 months.

Quotes source post: 14251932

Interior looks very clean and well cared for. How many owners and what service records show could make this a good buy. It needs tires, motor mounts and maybe more. Priced to sell I'd say.

Quotes source post: 14252876

Does the suspension needs update for this particular car or do they all need updates after a specific time period?

Quotes source post: 14253431

They all need to be updated at some point...some sooner then others. Like any other car.

Quotes source post: 14253431

If a 1999 has the original suspension and 100,000 miles on it after 17 years, then yes, they all need the suspension replaced as would any car but certainly a Porsche 911 since the primary reason most purchase these cars is the driving experience.

I bought a project and By the time I'm done, I could have bought a nice turbo. Why Did I do such a thing, well I was had no knowledge of Porsche other than I loved them all my life the 911 series. So I jumped into a full restore, now thousands and thousands later I still have a couple thousand left to spend to get her running hopefully. Then its onto suspension setup that's thousands and thousands, then tires and breaks will be another couple thousand. Then it's onto a full leather dash interior job that I'll do personally. After that a decent sound system and navigation. Then buy a dedicated laptop and a durametric and a exhaust system and I'm done

And how much extra would you have spent to upgrade to a driver 996? $2,500? It is not worth inheriting someone else's headache for that money.

Quotes source post: 14254350

Exactly, to many decent cars out there to by an over priced project that will drain you before you get to enjoy driving it.

Yes really, lol. Shoot I could have bought a driver for a lot less than I paid, my car was a gt3 clone look alike only, , it wasn't cheap to start with, but I got good money for the parts off and out of her.

That's the rub...my car is a '99 GT3-look, and it's been rock-solid for years. How can you lend useful advice when similar cars have such dissimilar realities?

I wish mine would have been solid when I bought it.

I recently bought a super clean, and perfect running 50k mile 996 that I ended up putting $7500 into after the purchase. This was just to get it daily dependable, and address the obvious areas. Trust me it adds up REAL fast! If the car sat for that many years....I would budget for more than double that, probably more. I would start with a clean car, its going to be a money pit regardless...but atleast you will get to enjoy it.

Quotes source post: 14254414

What did you get it for if you don't mind me asking. I hope to be in one by the end of summer.

Quotes source post: 14254419

19k 2002 3.6L MK2. Perfect body, exact car I wanted. I shopped around alot. 996's in the northeast go for a premium. Put 2k miles on it this month. Completely obsessed with it....lol

Quotes source post: 14254431

Congrats! What all had to be done?

Quotes source post: 14255151

LN IMS Pro Bearing AOS RMS Aux Coolant Cam Tensioner Plugs Coils Oil Fill Tube Water Pump Belt Low Temp Thermostat Steering Signal Stalk switch All fluids replaced, AC recharged, and another page or so of small misc items I cannot remember. Also note late model Tips are about extra +$1000 to do IMS over 6spd. Runs like a dream. Will swap brake pads next oil change.

shawn_nj - so you paid $19k for an 02 C2, plus did all of the replacements and preventative maintenance? Wow your car must be nice and running smooth. I'm still searching for my dream (affordable) 911. I figured if I pay around $20k for a 996, then put out another $K7-10k to make it a long term daily driver, I'd be close to the turbo or 997 range. Decisions decisions.

Quotes source post: 14256777

Had the same dilemma a year ago. Checked all these models out (also C4S 996). In the end I chose a pristine very early (Jan-98) 996 Carrera with a sports setup (M030 ROW, sportseats, LSD, etc) then spend approx 5k on maintenance&upgrades as described above. I really liked the clean 996 design over the much vaunted 997 interior. Too much little chrome accents etc. Don't forget that 997/Turbo you might look at as alternative will need maintenance too (3-5k?) before you put it on the road. Anyway, the REALLY NICE thing about 911 ownership is that you will always find one just to YOUR liking. So just be sure you shop around and find what you really want (once you know what that is..) and then don't get hooked on that particular car unless the maintenance history is clean and the PPI is good. I initially really liked the 997 and no way was interested in a 996 (those headlights???) but look what I got in the end..

John hit the preverbal "nail on the 996 head" big time. I don't have to drive any further than Cleveland Ga to realize that this would be a major project. You're prolly looking at lease double what you paid to get this car running.

Quotes source post: 14256777

996 Turbo or 997 is going to need just about everything I listed except the IMS (bc Turbo doesnt have one, and 997 you cannot replace it).... Had I not personally known someone who had an IMS failure I might not have worried about it as much. But that is up to you, the rest of the parts are wear items. AOS's will fail in time, original AUX coolant tank will look like crap and fail in time (mine did), if you buy a manual plan for clutch job if it hasnt been done. Believe me I looked at three 997's while shopping and all 3 had oil some seepage on the motor from either the RMS/IMS. 75% of all the cars I looked at has SOME signs of oil there. Any used car I buy I replace all fluids. That's just my ADD. But "affordable" is a very relative term to Porsche's. Trust me your best bet is to find a forum member who did all of this stuff in the past 3 years and pay a premium for that car. I went with 996 over 997 bc it allowed me to keep enough cash to comfortably deal with an engine rebuild if one was required. And I could not stomach living with an original IMS after seeing my buddies car grenade. Buying one of these cars is def somewhat of a gamble. PPI lowers the risk...but will not show if the previous owner found metal and changed the oil... I did not sleep much the few days that my car was getting prequailified for the IMS, I was very worried something bad would be found. Make sure you can deal with the outcome if something goes wrong early on, it CAN and does happen to a small % of new owners. Sorry to scare you if I did, but its good to know your risks upfront. All of this is just my opinion, but I was in your shoes shopping around 2 mths ago. Now with all that said, driving this car is just amazing. Warm night with the top down hearing the motor behind you is just an incredible experience, and worth every dollar.

I've always wanted a Porsche as a kid and I was intrigue with the low cost of today's 996. It's not my favorite 911 but I can live with the fried egg. headlights I don't mind doing the preventive maintenance but I really don't want to put myself in a predicament where something always go wrong and I have to fix. The upside is I can wrench and replace parts like engine mounts, ignition coils, spark plugs, belt, water pump etc. Nothing big like pulling the tranny out to replace clutch or IMS bearing, these kind of jobs I would have to bring to a shop. Thank you for all of the great advice you guys have given. I've joined other special interest forums and I always help newbies so I appreciate honest people giving honest advice. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards the 996. You guys are right, it's cheap to get a 996 so I wouldn't feel as bad or put me in a deep hole if I had to put out more money for repairs.

Are the timing chain tensioners recommended replacements...even on a 2004? I like the upgrade list from Shawn_NJ - makes the most sense in my opinion! Chris

Quotes source post: 14257031

Shawn, nice to hear you are enjoying the new ride. It was like a mini series reading your pursuit for a P car. My dealer was able to pull the last two service invoices for the car I purchased. The radiators were replaced and coolant changed 1K before my acquisition. Also, it had a full service done at a Porsche dealer 200 miles before I bought it. I did not get a PPI and am keeping my fingers crossed. My '04 996.2 was about 15k less than a '06 997. Any older car is going to have some issues and that money in the bank should cover most of them.