17 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHChain tensioner failing??
Leading reported evidence
Inspect & measure very slight wear
Suggestion or failed attempt
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
For example - how did they inspect & measure very slight wear on one tensioner without removing the pad from the paddle ?And they did that w/o dismantling anything?
Leading evidence: 'Inspect & measure very slight wear' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Inspect & measure very slight wear' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
1 degree out does nothing to jam the chain.There are lots of engines running beautifully with way more than a 1 degree error in valve timing.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
So let me get this straight, you used to have a low mileage perfectly good running car before this, right?
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Inspect & measure very slight wear
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
For example - how did they inspect & measure very slight wear on one tensioner without removing the pad from the paddle ?And they did that w/o dismantling anything?
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
17 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T220748Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
2003 996, 29K miles, IMS done at 27K miles, proactively.
Play by play...
1. Check engine light comes on, looses some power
2. Pull over immediately (thank god I did)
3. Error code P0011 (A camshaft position overtiming or System performance)
3. Flatbed to dealer
4. Dealer finds metal in oil filter and driver side cam won't turn
5. Dealer removes engine and transmission (praying it's not the new LN IMS that failed after 1,700 miles)
6.
Only thing wrong they can find is wear on the chain tensioner
(said IMS looks fine as does cylinder walls, valves, etc)
7. Timing only jumped 1 degree they said
Everything else looks normal... Sounds very strange to me, but I'm no Porsche mechanic
... Any input/ help from you guys would be much appreciated. $3k bill so far...
Metal ???
What kind of metal? Magnetic/non-magnetic ? How large are the pieces and how much?Drop the sump plate and search?There should have been lots of old pad material on the pick up screen if it really was a tensioner pad failure.
Only 1 chain tensioner is worn ? The others ? What happened to the pad on the tensioner that was worn down to the metal ?That is a lot of material to just disappear.
Magnetic drain plug shows - what? You do have a magnetic drain plug... ?
If the chain tensioner failed, shouldn't they also be finding dark brown fragments of plastic? I remember reading some threads where different color plastics could indicate what consumable parts were nearing the end of their service life. (This isn't a question directed towards OP, but hoping someone can answer for the sake of the discussion)
Number 4 and number 6 do not compute. I also do not understand how 1 degree of timing and a worn chain tensioner can cause "driver side cam won't turn."
There is something going on here. I would not let them slap it back together and try to turn it over.
Have all 6 cylinders been scoped? Since it's sitting on the workbench, I'm assuming yes, but...
More details about the metal in the filter and the contents of the sump would be some of what I'd want.
Broken aluminum shoe of drivers side cam chain tensioner has jammed the chain? But that must have happened after it got to the Dealer - because at the roadside -it had just lost some power and was still running ? 1 degree out does nothing to jam the chain.There are lots of engines running beautifully with way more than a 1 degree error in valve timing.
We're only getting part of the story...impossible to help w/o the rest.
The dealer didn't indicate (from OP's details) that the tensioner was broken: "Only thing wrong they can find is wear on the chain tensioner."
But, like a lot of the details, this is sketchy info at best.
Will the ECM retard timing (or at least disable Variocam actuation) due to the DTC? If so, that could explain the "down on power" condition reported by OP - but like my namesake Mr. Gelb postulates, this doesn't really explain the metal in the filter or the situation described by the dealer.
Yup ,that is why I had a question mark there
?
No 'worn" tensioner stops a chain moving.
Even if the solenoid failed completely it wouldn't jam the chain so I give up for lack of info
Now if we were told there were broken chunks of aluminum in the filter(from the tensioner shoe?) ,we would have some solid evidence to go on.
And the drivers side is jammed but the other side is not - and the engine still turns over? Suggests the chain on the drivers side has broken? Or the scavenge oil pump has broken?
Which cam won't turn -inlet or exhaust or both? More likely a broken chain than a jammed mechanism?
I believe we're both agreeing that there are still more questions than answers. Hopefully OP will get more info...and again, I hope the dealer doesn't decide to button it up and *shudder* crank it to "see what happens."
I wish I had more answers... I'm going to the dealership tomorrow to get more information. What's most important to understand?
Separately, can they even determine the IMS is good without removing it? (And then not being about to reuse it)
A better question may have been:
'Who is my best local M96 Indie?' But we don't know what City you are near.
Based on the info supplied by your Dealer, he
appears
to be clueless - as you may have gathered by all our very basic questions.
Just print out this thread for them to answer?
Exceedingly unlikely it is the LN bearing -unless they fudged the pre-qulification check or made installation mistakes. Unlikely they would disclose that.
These cars are so old now, the Porsche dealers are not the experts for them any more. The up-to-date knowledge base is with the Indies and Rennlist now.
Suggest you Post whatever answers you can get here and let us try to understand the issue better for you.
Good luck !
Spent an hour with the techs at dealership.
1. Cam never actually locked up
2. Metal is very very faint they found in filter (nothing on magnetic drain plug)
3. Only one tensioner showing wear and jumped one link in the chain not 1 degree
4. Saying metal not from tensioner... From what then??
5. Going to bore scope cylinders, flush everything, new plugs, tensioner and put it back together?
Sigh. They said they have never seen this tensioner fail before so makes me worried they are not getting to root cause...
Sounds like a botched install to me. How many IMS retrofits have these guys done? And did they put a junior guy on it?
They obviously aren't gonna admit fault as they don't wanna cover it.
So let me get this straight, you used to have a low mileage perfectly good running car before this, right?
"A better question may have been:
'Who is my best local M96 Indie?'
But we don't know what City you are near."
I repeat this because again the Dealer's answers make little sense and contradict their previous answers in some cases.
Without better info a keyboard diagnosis is futile.
For example - how did they inspect & measure very slight wear on one tensioner without removing the pad from the paddle ?And they did that w/o dismantling anything?
Good Luck with your Indie search . I suggest you post a redacted copy of the invoice from the Dealer if it offers any specifics.
It should be a low cost invoice because all they replaced was one ? Part cost is around $100 retail.And their Durametric immediately showed the 1 degree timing issue.So no huge amount of diagnostic time either. The plug replacement was necessary or just 'while they were in there' ?
Wait - in the original post, you said they indicated that "IMS looks fine as does cylinder walls, valves, etc) - but now they're going to bore scope the cylinders? How did they ascertain that the cylinder walls looked fine if they hadn't scoped it?
I know... a lot of inconsistencies with the information I'm getting form the dealership. That's why I went there this morning and talked to the guys actually doing the work on the car, as well as the service manager. Don't feel very good that they're getting at the root cause of this issue at all.
