Ticking When Hot (See Video)

At the risk of beating the ticking issues to death....which having read some of the posts has generally seemed to indicate a need for a rebuild, I thought I'd post a short video of my '99 C4. Unlike many of the other examples on here, the car seems to tick intermittently, and if it ticks (which is not every time), it only ticks when it's warm. Ambient outside temperature doesn't seem to make a difference in the ticking behavior either. As you can see in the video, it's coming from bank #2: Video Link: You Tube I've asked my Porsche indy about the noise when it's been in for service and a recent track inspection, and they've said it's nothing to worry about. Currently running Mobil 1 5w50 (for summertime in Texas), car isn't using oil excessively (about 1 qt every 3-5k miles depending on how hard I drive it), no coolant loss, the coolant is clean with no indications of intermix. There are no signs of burnt oil or leakage in the headers. The driver's side exhaust tip is slightly darker than the passenger's side, but not excessively so. I will have an occasional puff of smoke on startup, especially if the engine has been started, then shut down while still cold (for example if I move it out of the garage to re-park it). Additional info: I run a center radiator and LN low temp thermostat (Texas summer time). Last oil change, my LN magnetic drain plug came back clean, and my Mahle oil filter had a couple tiny white plastic shavings (chain tensioner wear?) but no ferrous material or metal shavings in it. I cut it apart and inspected both sides. I have not done any UOA's yet. The car idles smoothly, pulls hard throughout the rev range, and runs well other than the ticking. No codes or misfires of any kind. Indicated oil pressure is around 2 bar at hot idle when the oil is hot as well (after 1 hr of spirited driving, for example). If this is nothing to worry about, like my mechanic has indicated, I'd love the reassurance. However, if it is indeed bore scoring or piston slap, I'd like to better understand what can/will happen if I don't rebuild the engine and just drive it--I can live with the occasional ticking if it means I don't have to go through the time and expense of a rebuild. Thank you for your input!

Have you checked the header bolts to see if any are loose, or there if there is any sign of an exhaust leak, mainly at the header gasket? Also, pull the Bank 2 plugs and inspect. When was the last time the plugs were changed?

DBJoe, Thank you for the reply! I've checked and couldn't identify any exhaust leaks, and put a wrench on the headers about a month ago when I was doing an oil change to make sure the bolts are tight. The headers don't seem to be cracked either. Plugs were replaced about 10k miles ago when I replaced the seeping spark plug tubes. Seemed to be brown in the center but not oily like they should be, and they are tight -- it was the first thing I checked when I heard the ticking. The car has just under 60k miles on it.

Mine and plenty of other 996s make a light lifter-ticking noise after a pile of autocross runs (especially on 100 degree days) but it goes away after a cool-off drive or the next day. Can't say for sure without hearing it in person, but your noise sounds different than our occasional autox noise.

Shy of anything external (like the header/exhaust), then the next step would be to try and isolate exactly where the ticking is coming from. A mechanics stethoscope would allow you to listen to the lifters and cylinders. Just an idea. If it is a worn lifter, that sure beats piston slap or bore scoring. Maybe your Indy could do that for you with an experienced ear. Following that, a boroscope on the Bank 2 cylinders might give you a clue.

That sounds like a good next step. It will probably take me a little bit to arrange that... Hypothetically though, if it IS a worst-case scenario like piston slap or bore scoring, what happens/what can I expect if I were to just continue to drive it, since it doesn't seem to be causing any performance problems and I don't have any metal bits in the oil at this point? The reason I ask is that there are plenty of instances of other motors (from various manufacturers) that have suffered from piston slap, but have gone hundreds of thousands of miles without any real issues except for the annoying ticking.....what is different in the M96's case that is making everyone decide to rebuild immediately? Thanks!

The following is based on my research and not actual experience. I do this when paranoia sets in and I need to convince myself I have lifter noise. Take a mechanics stethascope and probe robe around the head on the cam side. Listen for the rhythmic ticking. Now work your way toward the block listening for the same sound. If it gets louder as you move away from the head then that can point to piston slap. If the noise is louder on the head/cam side, it is likely valve train. Go go from there. So far, I have deduced that the light ticking I hear on my car is lifter. What I hear in your video seems louder than what I hear on my car. YMMV

Mine makes similar noises both intermittantly and usually after prolonged idle when hot. It immediately goes away with a small blip of throttle(to 1200rpm say). Done oil analysis and not had any issues with them. My thought is that its one of the timing chains flapping about because oil is a bit on the thin side and and the pressue isnt high enough at idle. Maybe a lifter check that isnt sealing any more. I won't worry too much about it unless I start seeing some wear metals. For reference, its a '99 with upwards of 100k.

Hate to say it, but I'd be getting that boroscoped.

Hmmm..I've had something similar but it was intermittent and then went away completely. Honestly these cars have a lot of weird noises from time to time. Unfortunately most will end up pointing you to a rebuild scenario. It used to be all IMS talk which would scare folks into getting the LN Engineering retrofit. Now it's onto getting the IMS solution for a permanent fix. Now it seems like a lot of these "my car ticks" threads which hypes up the bore scoring. Not saying that it couldn't be the case. Just seems like this has become a new "you need an engine rebuild" thread. Good luck with what you find and/or do. I know it's difficult to enjoy the car when every little noise causes concern or worry. Trust me, I address my IMS,RMS etc. soon after purchasing my car and after a few late nights scrolling through this forum.

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Can you afford to "take a chance" and continue driving it?

with scored cylinders? yes. its not like a IMS failure where you lose the engine. there's a member in Canada who has done over 10 000km with known scored cylinders - just adds oil. while a lot of people will say stop driving it because your contanimating the entire engine but with a few folks who put some pretty high mileage (including me) on scored cylinders, I don't beleive this to be as serious of an issue as these folks say. the experiences show that the engine isn't going to go kaput because of scored cylinders. ymmv. lol I was tracking my car with scored cylinders. unfortunately, I'm very familiar with his engine sound. I'm not trying to fear monger anyone, just giving you the bad news so you can prepare yourself. I went through this - I wish I was wrong

Sell it, it's costing you money every time you start it

I feel that AWD is right. The frequency of the tick doesn't sound like valve train which would be 4x the frequency. How long ago did the tick start? Any cold weather operation (below 25 degrees F, Jake says this can contribute to scored cylinders)? No increase in oil burning?

I really appreciate everyone's input and opinions on this so far! Chicagospeed -- I first noticed the tick started about 6-8 months ago (I don't drive the car every day), but again this is very intermittent, and only happens when the car is warm/hot. It was in the middle of the Texas summer and I was picking it up from a valet who had left the car running/idling parked with the passenger's side next to a wall, so the engine noise (and tick) was amplified by the echo). I asked my mechanic about it, and he told me not to worry about it, soon after when I brought it in for a pre-DE inspection and oil change. It very rarely get's below 25 degrees here, and I don't drive the car when it's too cold or rainy anyway. I don't know if the PO did however. I did the last oil change about 3000 miles ago myself, and cut the filter to look for metal etc, as I referenced in my original post. (Also, if the minimum is operating temperature without causing damage is 25 degrees for the car (and I have no reason to doubt Jake's expertise), it's more sensitive to cold than my Meyer lemon tree! ) The sound does seem to be emitting from the center/bottom of the engine, not the top/heads so I'm leaning away from lifter tick at this point. AWDguy is probably correct in trying to prepare me for the worst, and I'll drop the sump plate and get a borescope to see what I can see when I do my next oil change. One question though: how am I contaminating the engine by continuing to drive it? Don't the rebuild procedures for scored cylinders require a complete teardown, cleaning and re-sleeving of the block anyway? What I am getting at is trying to answer 808Bill's question -- can I afford to take a chance on it? Given the nature of the rebuild process required, it seems like there's no harm in just driving and enjoying the car until it's burning too much oil and/or barfing metal into the oil system, and putting off the time and expense of a rebuild as long as possible would be the wise financial decision. Am I incorrect in this assumption? Thanks again for all of your help on this!

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Hate to mention this but you did say you first noticed the noise after having the car valet parked. Have you had the DME overrev counters read? I have no direct experience with bore scoring. I know in one case -- a Cayman -- the car was "diagnosed" (in quotes because I'm not sure it was a hard diagnosis more likely just based on what the owner was told by others) with bore scoring. No other symptoms or signs of any issues so he decided to keep driving the car, in fact tracking the car. After some few thousands of miles the noise was gone as the engine had not manifested any other signs of any trouble from bore scoring or anything else. If it is truely bore scoring this condition generally -- there are exceptions -- doesn't just reach some point and then stabilize. The scoring -- wear -- advances to where oil consumption becomes a problem or the cylinder misfires or worse. If it is truely bore scoring you almost certainly should have this addressed. If you continue to drive the car the odds are the engine could reach a point it not a good candidate for any bore scoring corrective action (read "rebuild"). You need to be sure though the problem is bore scoring. It could be a bad lifter. These are more common than bore scoring. An experienced tech with the proper equipment I think should be able to at least determine if the noise is coming from under the camshaft cover or from deeper in the block. If deeper in the block then bore scoring becomes more likely. If the tech is able to pinpoint a specific cylinder then a bore scope of cylinder might be called for. If not then a check of all cylinders of that bank is probably advisable. Another way to possibly confirm bore scoring is a leak down test. But in this case the leak down is tested with the piston at different places in the cylinder -- but of course not so different that any valves are open -- to see if there is a place where the piston/cylinder pressure drops off. One might need to do this to all cylinders of the bank looking for the one different cylinder. If the noise is coming from higher up then a lifter becomes more likely. With no indication of a weak cylinder what might be called for is to remove all intake and exhaust lifters (do not use a magnet to remove these!) and check each. Years ago with good ol' 'merican hydraulic lfters dropping one in a clean container of engine oil and working the lifter immersed in engine oil was a "test" of sorts. The lifter would take in oil and after a few strokes the lifter would get solid and even if one applied continuous pressure the lifter would not collapse. I'm thinking if a lifter is bad it might pump up ok but with continuous pressure bleed down faster than the others. (If a lifter is suspected with the car under warranty Porsche just replaces all lifters of that type. Most often it is an intake lifter so all intake lifters on that bank are replaced. Porsche attributes the failure of one or more lifters to "dirt" and all are at risk of manifesting symptoms arising from this.)

worse case scenario is you need a new motor (or full clean and rebuild) eventually. 25k for an RND engine, which is great value considering how much it is to build yourself with nickies and so on. if it's not consuming a lot of oil, and you have no check engine lights, I'd say keep driving it and do frequent oil changes. filter mag and magnetic plug would be good to use also. slow down the wear you're causing as much as possible. ​​

I haven't had the DME counters looked at. Given the situation I was in when I picked up the car and the horrible traffic in downtown Austin, I doubt they'd have had much time to rough up the car too much. I appreciate all of the insights into the possible diagnostics if the symptoms don't magically disappear (here's hoping they do!). For now, I'll take AWDguy's advice -- keep driving it and change the oil frequently. I'll report back if the situation changes. Thanks everyone for your advice!

Valet parking LOL You Tube

Zeblitz Thanks for posting. I have the exact same problem and posted a week ago,tried to post a video but that was beyond my technical experience! Cold start/no ticking. After it's hot the ticking will start,but will go away when revs are up. I drove to Sebring last weekend (about 50 miles each way)and when I got home it was running perfect with no tick. I let my BIL drive it last saturday he tried to leave a light in 3rd gear and then the check engine light came on(hope thats why) I unhooked the battery and put on a new gas cap(just in case)and everything seems to be fine now. Keep us posted on what you find out and I will do the same. Dave

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It really bugs me to see these young F'n rich kids with no respect for the safety of others...

I have the EXACT same noise. I have a 99 C2. Is yours an automatic too? Any way you could update the forum with what happened to your car? Maybe just confirm no bore score? best, Connor Cash

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so since this post is old what was it? I live in florida it�s hot as hell here. When the car reaches about 180 and the oil pressure drops in between 1-2 the ticking starts. If I give it a little throttle it goes away if I turn on the ac it goes away. However, if I turn the ac off it comes right back. Did you ever figure out what was causing yours?

My 2001 had pitting and chunks missing from the chain guides at 60 thou miles, a strip down is only way to be sure unfortunately

Start doing oil tests to get a base line, drop the sump to see whats in it, cut open the oil filter to see whats in it, scope the bores to see what you have. No reason to loose any sleep when you can easily find out. Then run a bottle of techron in your fuel and drive it like you mean it