30 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHCamshaft deviation allowance?
Leading reported evidence
Replace pads last year
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
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0
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Leading evidence: 'Replace pads last year' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check make sure the engine and oil are up' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
Just to be accurate, next time you check make sure the engine and oil are up to 92C or more (or 15 minutes of run time), a/c off.
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Suggestion
Check at normal idle, then run up to 3,000 rpm to check for my significant change.
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Suggestion
I didn't read all the responses but anything under 4 is "acceptable"...BUT....understand, age isn't the friend of plastic and even though it might be within tolerance now, chances are very likely they'll break apart and slowly get worse much sooner then later......if you plan on keeping he car a long time I would get them replaced (and yes it can be done with the motor in the car).
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Suggestion
It's like the serpentine belt, they all need replacing over time....some last 100k and some only 50k.....but it needs replacing........same with the cam guides.....especially if the slap of the chain(s) is loose.......just my .02$ worth.
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Suggestion
I didn't read all the responses but anything under 4 is "acceptable"...BUT....understand, age isn't the friend of plastic and even though it might be within tolerance now, chances are very likely they'll break apart and slowly get worse much sooner then later......if you plan on keeping he car a long time I would get them replaced (and yes it can be done with the motor in the car).
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Suggestion
It's like the serpentine belt, they all need replacing over time....some last 100k and some only 50k.....but it needs replacing........same with the cam guides.....especially if the slap of the chain(s) is loose.......just my .02$ worth.
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I have read posts that say +/- 6 degrees of camshaft deviation is allowed per side, and I have read posts that says +/- 6 degrees total. Which is correct? I have -3.75 on cam position 1 and -2.05 on cam position 2. This is on a 2002 (with an factory engine replacement in 2005).
A Durametric reading of a bank 1 deviation -3.75
and a bank 2 deviation of -2.05
are within spec, so marlinspike is ok. Those numbers indicate timing is retarded for both banks.
The OBD readers take the deviation from the
crank
. A -6 deg deviation, as measured by a Durametric,
et al,
would mean timing on that bank is retarded by 3 deg (-3) at the
camshaft
. The confusion may be that the spec for the factory set point is +/- 3 deg at the
camshaft;
or +/-6 deg, when we measure at the crank,
per bank
. The deviations are not cumulative.
Measurements, by us, from outside the engine with our readers give us the deviation info based on crank position where TDC is known. I was also taught to measure the cam deviation when engine is idling at operating temp and accessories are off to obtain the best reading. I am not an expert, but this is what I’ve learned the last couple of years.
Okay....so maybe I have misunderstood this all long. I thought the timing was supposed to be no more than +6 degrees and no less than -6 degrees. But it sounds like it's the difference between the two banks.
I have been logging mine since I got the car, I just took a reading the other day. They deviate by about 5 degrees from each other. Is this acceptable? I know that Jake wants it less than this, but since one of them is -8.33 degrees (I thought this was out of spec as it exceeded - 6 degrees) and the other is - 3.88 degrees on the last reading, they are about 5 degrees apart. Let me know. Appreciate it!
Paul, your bank 1 has been out by -2 degrees for some time. That crank is being retarded by 1 degree at cam and 2 degrees as measured at crank. Just to be accurate, next time you check make sure the engine and oil are up to 92C or more (or 15 minutes of run time), a/c off. Check at normal idle, then run up to 3,000 rpm to check for my significant change. Don’t exceed 3,100 rpm so variocam doesn’t kick in. Difference between banks doesn’t matter. One side could read -5.5 and the other +5.5, and would technically be within spec.
Jake is wary about any deviations outside +/-4 deg.
De Jeeper is right. You look at both banks deviation independently. Sloan, your bank 1 is out of spec. I replaced my pads last year. One bank was right at -6 and the other -4. I did both sides. When I saw the pads, I was very happy I did them then and that I did both sides. Totally understand why and totally agree with Raby who has stricter limits than Porsche. btw, the engine had about 60k miles on it at that time.
Im pretty sure it derived from Jake Rabys/LN-E requirement for replacing the ims with the Solution.
the spec is +-6 so its posible to be off 12 points and still be technically in spec. The reality in less it was set up wrong this will never happen. Most engine builders will suggest changing pads at +-4.
That is a non Porsche's requirement for when the Solution, a non-Porsche device could be used. It has nothing to do with the ECU raising a CEL code when the cam deviation is +/- 6 degrees and signifying that the actuator is bad and needs to be replaced.
I didn't read all the responses but anything under 4 is "acceptable"...BUT....understand, age isn't the friend of plastic and even though it might be within tolerance now, chances are very likely they'll break apart and slowly get worse much sooner then later......if you plan on keeping he car a long time I would get them replaced (and yes it can be done with the motor in the car). It's like the serpentine belt, they all need replacing over time....some last 100k and some only 50k.....but it needs replacing........same with the cam guides.....especially if the slap of the chain(s) is loose.......just my .02$ worth.
2 different things. The solenoid attaches too the actuator. If u buy the actuator new u get a new soleniod so if u look up the part # its the silver part with the plug, the rest of the assembly is the actuator.
The
solenoid
is an electronic device that controls oil flow into the
actuator.
The actuator is a hydraulic device that forces the intake cam shaft to change its timing.
So the actuator is powered by oil presure after the solenoid opens. If the oring on the actuator is bad it can't achieve enough presure to fully extend.
So the entire system depends on a green o-ring.
Thanks for the education. I can visualize much better.
Actually,,,, its more than just that green tell-tale o-ring. Just that the green o-ring that shows up in the sump signifies the condition of all the 25 year old seals/o-rings in the actuators that can cause failure to advance/retract.
This whole kit needs to installed in the actuator rebuild....
Again, you guys all have me scared- my car with 133K miles and a couple of bad owners no records has a Durometric camshaft position of 0.97 & 0.83. What am I doing wrong?
The measures need to be taken after the engine has been driven (not idled) for approximately 20 minutes. to reach normal operating temperature. After you've done this drive, do not stop the engine, but connect the Durametric and test again.
I believe that those figures you pulled out are when the engine is not being driven to the operating temperature.
It was warmed up and thrashed a little then it came back to my shop and idled. I really hooked up the Durometric to see why I could not get it to go ready for the OBD II. I am sort of thinking that someone has done the timing chains. I know the PO did not - he only drove it hard and put it away wet. Nice guy but he was not a fine car owner.
I sent an oil sample out to Blackstone last week so maybe that will help my investigation. The car has nothing on Car Fax for major repairs, Porsche Fresno only had it in for a key job some years ago. Thanks
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