I need input from the 996.1 PROS!

Yet another thread about a new-to-me 996.1.........this will be my first P-car. I can pick up a local 2000 C2 Cab, tiptronic car. Here's what I know of the car: I have seen it and driven it. Nice car, but not flawless. Starts/runs/drives as it should. Factory rebuilt engine - but with NO paperwork. At all. Engine number confirms that it's a rebuilt engine. I'm assuming that this was to rectify the IMS situation - but again, no paperwork. Clear CarFax. Currently owned by the 4th owner. The car currently has right around 51k miles - but it's unknown how many of those miles are on the new/rebuilt engine. Has a healthy scratch on the passenger door that has been covered with touch-up paint, console is worn pretty good. Leather seats refinished in factory leather, and appears well done. Continental tires with only 4k miles on them, even wear all the way around. Shift buttons on the steering wheel, but no paddles. The usual goodies like climate control and power seats, otherwise a base model car. Is this a good buy at $18k? I'd love to know what you all think - Honestly, I loved the car. AND the seller. However, the ZERO documentation has me a little concerned about when it's MY turn to sell the car. It seems crazy to have NOTHING on an engine swap. Nothing at all. My problem is that there are no other P-cars in my neighborhood, so it's a bit of a lone wolf in my world. Not a ton of cars for sale currently in western Colorado. The seller is an older gentleman who has put less than 5000 miles on the car during his three years of ownership. Engine was installed prior to his purchase. The price seems on the low side of market value - but I'm no expert. That's why I'm here! Is this a decent buy? Or too many unknowns for a 996.1? Talk to me! You guys are the seasoned pros here.....

Welllpppppp.........with only 51K on the vehicle,it can't have more than 51K on the replacement engine, and most likely a lot less. Since that seems to be the item you are most worried about, do more research. If engine was installed under warranty, either new car or CPO extended coverage, they will have a record of when it was done and mileage. What does carfax list as selling dealer? Within driving distance? If so, go and visit. Have cash in hand. Green backs make the info flow.

1. Contact a Porsche dealer and see if they can look up the VIN and find documentation of the engine replacement. 2. When looking for a 25 year old sports car worth buying and owning, it is very unlikely that you are going to find a good candidate just sitting down the street. You need to broaden your search area, I'd say 1000 miles at least, especially when you are talking about a model of car that is know to have major engine issues. 3. I would highly recommend getting a manual. The fun factor is 10x higher when you're shifting gears. When I'm driving around, I often think to myself "I am SO glad I didnt get an automatic."

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I completely understand the idea of looking over a wider area.....I just don't want to miss out on a decent deal that is just 75 miles from me. It's not my dream 996, by any stretch, but it could be an affordable way to enter the arena. I do like the idea of a manual car - that seems to be the one that really brings the smiles! I think you're dead-on in that department. I appreciate your thoughts on this one!

Can you get a PPI with bore scope? That will give you a lot of information on the overall condition of the car. 18k to get in would be nice, but if it has a ton of issues or deferred maintenance then it can get very expensive quickly.

A tip/cab can be a fun car for the right price. Regardless of mileage, it is still 25 years old and many of the plastic/rubber components (coolant expansion tank, suspension, etc.) may need attention. Hopefully the replacement engine has the larger IMSB but without a manufacturing or installation date it's a guessing game. Regular PPI items should still be checked (AOS, camshaft deviations, overrevs, fuel trims, etc.) to avoid surprises. If all of these check out then 15-18K sounds resonable.

For me, these low mile cars are all about the oil and how often it's been changed and circulated around. How many times did he change the oil in 3 years? What was the driving pattern of those 5000 miles? All at one time and then just sitting? How hot does the engine get when driven? Not sure how to assign the risk of these things, but these are the things that lead to premature wear and failure. Sitting alot with only trips to the grocery with no oil changes is much worse than periodic drives of 50+ miles and oil changes every 6 months. Good luck with the search. These are awesome machines when they are sorted!

That's a very good price if the engine and transmission are good. Just know that seemingly minor things can get expensive. I have a 2000 Tip Cab. A replacement coolant tank is $800 and is a pain to replace. The rear axle boots on a 25 year old car will likely be dry rotted. It's around $1500 for a shop to replace them. If you need a new AOS it will need to be done with the engine out ($$). In that case I would replace it with the UAOS. If I remember correctly, the "AT" replacement engines have non-replaceable IMS bearings, otherwise I would replace the coolant tank, AOS, and IMSB at that same time while the engine was out. Also, how is the suspension? Time and gravity also contribute to wear. For example. For my 85k mile 2000 Tip Cab, which has been meticulously maintained, I've spent over $15k in the last two years for a suspension refresh, UAOS, IMSB, chains, and chain guides. I still need to have the axle boots done. I've done the water pump and thermostat myself. Those parts are about $400 without labor. New tires just cost me $1500. I get complements from people who think the car is brand new, but remember that it's a 25 year old machine that has parts that wear out. I'm not trying to talk you out of it - I LOVE driving my car. I just want you to know that a cheap Porsche is never cheap.

That's a great price and a bonus being g close. There will be things that need to be done. You should get an obd and check for codes. my car was a similar desl. I felt ok with it.

I own a 2000 TIP cab with 58K miles. $18K is a fair price. TIPs aren't for everyone. I am a tennis player and have knee issues so I wanted a TIP. It's an absolute blast to drive.

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I called a Porsche dealer, and they did a system-wide inquiry and found NOTHING. Even the service tech I spoke with was surprised at that. He did take the engine number and was planning on doing a little extra investigating on my behalf, which I'm incredibly grateful for. I think I'm going to have a PPI done, just so I know what I might be getting into. I would much rather know what's ahead of me NOW, as opposed to a surprise. Something about knowing it's on the horizon just makes me feel better/more prepared. I may have to travel a bit or wait for a local shop to take a peek at the car. I'm so grateful for everyone's thoughts! You guys are so insightful - and I'm feeling so much better just by hearing from you all.

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Post the engine and vin #. IIRR some here can translate the #

look in south florida area. You can find a 911 everywhere down here and get it shipped and insured in an enclosed trailer if you want or for about a grand you can get it shipped open on a trailer with others from michigan to florida for about 1k to give you an idea.

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Not sure how comfortable I am with shooting the VIN number across the internet just yet. It's not my car just yet. Might be overly cautious, but seems respectful for the seller. I will post the engine number, however.... The engine is stamped as follows: M96/04AT66Y66247 I just got off the phone with a (relatively) local Porsche dealership - and he said there is NO record of the car. NONE. Not even when it was sold new. He also said that's pretty unusual in itself, but being 20+ years old the documentation just might not be there due to the car's age. There's a decent amount of service history on the CarFax, but nothing showing an engine replacement. Furthermore, none of the service was done at a Porsche dealership - all indy stuff. A few more things: the CarFax shows a very large amount of work done around 10k miles, including an engine reprogramming - which COULD mean that's when the engine swap happened. However - if that's the case, it would still have been under warranty....so why wouldn't you take it to a dealership? Furthermore, the car was sold at auction roughly 10 years ago...adding even more question marks to the story. The saga continues..... The service tech at Porsche did say the whole thing is very unusual. He also said according to the CarFax it's due a major service - so he said be sure and get it cheap! Hahahaha! I love the car (and the price!), but all these unanswered questions are leaving me with tremendous reservations. At some point it will be my turn to sell this thing, and I'm sure I'm going to be asked all the same questions. Wtihout ANY paperwork, it could be a tough sell.

Have a look at this thread regarding the engine details: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-details.html Carfax is not the be all/end all resource for vehicle history, not all businesses report to Carfax. An engine can be replaced for various reasons besides warranty including insurance claims, overrev, poor maintenance practices, etc. The reman engine could have been purchased from Porsche and installed by an indy or even the owner depending on the situation. If your worried about resale then best to steer clear, but if your looking for a fun car to enjoy then it might work for the right price. If you want a detailed report on the car build you can buy one here for a decent price: https://vinanalytics.com/

Perhaps a naive question, but did/does Porsche sell "AT" serial numbered, factory replacement engines to Independent shops and/or individuals?

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That's actually a great question....

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Thanks for the links, G! I'm totally worth you on the Carfax; it's just one more tool to refer to. I don't treat it as gospel, but without ANY other service paperwork for this car, it's a weighty piece of this puzzle. The reman engine will have low miles, I can be pretty sure of that - simply based on the car's low miles. I'm curious about the engine's IMS setup. Could it be simply a replacement engine with the existing single-row IMS setup? Something that just got pulled from the shelf and swapped in? Is this a reasonable concern? Or am I being overly cautious here? Scheduled for a PPI once the seller returns to town. That might be a very telling report.

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Yes, it could be an early reman engine with the smaller/single row IMSB. Based on the info in the link I posted, it looks like the engine might have been built right around the time Porsche was transitioning to the larger IMSB. Only a visual inspection would settle it. That said, if the mileage is low and and it passes a quality PPI (cam deviation meaurements, fuel trim measurements, bore scope, AOS vacuum, oil analysis, oil filter inspection, sump inspection, etc.) then it's probably fine. Lot's of owners have put hundrededs of thousands of miles on original IMSB's without failure. For the right price I would just follow good maintenence practices and drive the wheels off it!

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Will the PPI determine the status/condition the IMS and RMS? This is my first adventure down this path, thus the plethora of questions...

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A PPI that includes a cam deviations report and oil analysis/oil filter inspection can shed some light on the IMSB condition. Cam deviations at or over maximum specification can indicate a problem, and any metal (ferrous) particles in the oil & oil filter could indicate IMSB early stage failure. The RMS is checked by observing for leaks at the engine/transmission joint. Any oil seepage noticed in this area could indictate a RMS leak or a leaking seal on the IMSB collar.

Enjoy the car. They like to be driven.

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I think it's safe to say it needs the RMS addressed. There is experience of oil seepage all over the bottom of the power train. I'm just guessing a good bit of that is coming from the RMS. Doesn't drip on the ground, but a healthy amount on the engine.

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It's hard to tell from those pictures what is leaking, but a weeping RMS or IMSB collar typically does not cover the bottom of the transmission or CV joints in oil. I suspect something else is leaking in that area but without a good cleaning to identify the leak it's purely speculation. This is where a good PPI would help. Either way, it's a cost that should be factored into the purchase price.

My guess is the spark plug tubes r all leaking.

It looks like the oil leaks is coming from the Tiptronic Trans... your car has the ZF 5HP Tip like what is used in many BMW's but is a bit different due to rear engine ...... This Trans is notorious for a leak at the front case where drive reverses directions......This leak blows back all over the trans and even on the engine while driveing on the freeway... This gasket is very difficult to find because it is not used on the BMW's and also not very easy to replace.....Most people just keep the Trans topped up and keep the leak cleaned off ... Most Trans Shops don't want to fix it or they want to do a full Trans rebuild..

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This sounds..... Expensive. And annoying. But maybe that's the best way to deal with it. Does the Mercedes version have the same reputation?

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Yes, the 722.6 Merc has a bit better reputation ...

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I think I have the same issue. My indy said my transmission is shot, but I disagree. It shifts fine and there are no noises. From what I remember reading, these are very difficult to fill, especially without a lift.

I feel like this car is waving me off in a thousand ways. Too many unanswered questions, too many open-ended trouble spots. Hoping that a thorough PPI will reveal all that's going on here. But honestly, I think the PPI will just reinforce the "better move on" feeling that I'm wrestling with. I want a P-car so badly that I'm tempted to snag it just because it's on the affordable end of the spectrum and it's close to me....but I'm reminded that the most expensive car in the world is a cheap Porsche. Hahaha. The potential transmission leak is especially discouraging; the IMS and RMS could be addressed, as well as the AOS - but the transmission sounds especially intimidating. I'll keep you posted.

Hello, it�s been a while since I posted, I have a 2000 model year with an AT engine, however mine is a M96.1 with the preferred dual row IMSB.. I would encourage you to continue todo the research on this site, and consider a car that fits your exact wants or needs, does your use case require a cabriolet? Or a Tip transmission? If it does not consider traveling to buy exactly what you desire and take your time.. the car to have IMO is an early car that would be cable throttle, mine is early 2000 in April so it has Egas (Alas) it�s not terrible and I got lucky with the early AT engine, a coupe was for me, I would also shop for your desired color, for both the exterior and interior, sports seats are definitely a great option, I suggest you become familiar with the options codes that are listed under the hood on the sticker, if if I had a do-over it would be as follows:- 1999 or earlier coupe, desirable colors, manual, LSD, sport seats, no sunroof, good service history ensuring the necessary maintenance items already done, that being said to get such a car you have to prepare to pay up. Buying a cheap 996 rarely works out cheaper in the long run.

Ugh. I passed on this car. After a lengthy conversation with two Porsche service reps and multiple local indy shops, I just feel like there are too many open-ended variables with this one, some with expensive consequences. One Porsche service guy reinforced the idea that the AT engines are FACTORY REPLACEMENT engines, not FACTORY REBUILT. He said there is no guarantee that it's not just a new engine with the original IMS setup. He said it's very likely that the replacement engine has the newer, larger style IMS bearing, but with no paperwork, there's no real way to know without putting eyes on the actual bearing. At the nearest Porsche dealership, he quoted me $8000 to replace the bearing if it hasn't been done yet - and that's just too much to tack on to the sales price of this car. So - the search continues! I'm going to take advice from @Gary12000 and search for THE car I'm after; I wasn't in love with the Cab and tip, so maybe it's for the best. I was very willing to settle just because this car was close and affordable - but now that I can scratch that one off the list, I'll be better focused on the car I really want. Thank you so much to you all - your input has been invaluable! I can see why so many people love this place!