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YOUR RESEARCHbuying 996 - due diligence
Reported or suspected cause
misalignment
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported fixes
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Discussions that report identifying a cause
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Leading evidence: 'misalignment' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'misalignment' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust suspension makes a very capable car' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
300 HP and a well-adjusted suspension makes a very capable car, but it's no tire-shredding monster.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Get one installed and you will have replaced almost all of the parts that wear out or break.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Be sure you check the tires -- they can be due to be replaced based on their age (>6 years old).
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The owner swapped the bumper to the one on the photo.
Replace ) in the daily driven cars has some effect
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Suggestion
I do not understand the logic behind the trend, but it seems that running the engine a lot and fresh oil supply (and more frequent oil changes) in the daily driven cars has some effect on making the IMS last.
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Suspected cause
I think their was a misunderstanding regarding interpretation of the regulations and the problem was quickly resolved, but not until some cars had already been imported with the bumper additions.
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58 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Hello,
I am new to this forum and would like to get your take on what due diligence I should be doing before buying a 996.
I am looking at 2002 996 Targa Tip with 50,000 miles on it for $25,000. It got bunch of options and original sticker is $94,000. I test drove and fell in love with it. I am taking it for pre-purchase inspection tomorrow at a local non-dealer Porsche mechanic. This car had 4 owners before me, so I am not sure if IMS and RMS were taking care of. I will talk to the mechanic once PPI is done to see if he recommends doing IMS and RMS. I am inclined to do them anyway for my piece of mind. With California tax, IMS and RMS, it will probably come out to be $30,000 out of pocket.
Is there anything else I should be concerned about before buying it? What do you think of this purchase?
I always drove Japanese cars but it is time for me to experience something different. Maintenance cost is a concern, but this car will be a weekend car. I do not expect to put on more than 5,000 miles annually.
Any opinion from you experts will be greatly appreciated. I really want this car (mid-life crisis fighter), but at the same time I fear the cost of ownership, I go back and forth on whether to buy or not. I am almost hoping PPI will go badly I have a way to "get out".
Thank you in advance.
The car is just a used car so you want to verify the car is basically sound and worth owning.
What you decide to do or not do about the RMS and IMS is between you and your mechanic.
I note you have already driven the car. I advise a test ride of 15 miles to let the seller demo the car to you followed by a test drive of 15 miles over the same route so you can then experience the car in a variety of ways as you will use the car should you buy it.
This 30 miles of use gives the engine time to manifest any issues, make that the engine, drivetrain, brakes, steering, etc. time to manifest any issues.
Afterwards then you subject the car to a thorough used car check out to confirm everything works or what doesn't is not expensive to put right and does not hint at deeper underlying problems.
Be sure you check the tires -- they can be due to be replaced based on their age (>6 years old). Along with the tire age check their condition. Uneven wear is due to misalignment. Budget $200+ for a proper alignment and the results will be less satisfactory with the worn tires.
Check the brake wear. A new set of brake hardware can run $1000/axle if you have this work done.
After you finish then you have the car PPI'd. Among other things this will have the car carefully inspected to leaks. The DME over rev counters and engine run time is read and you can review the data with your mechanic.
For price I can't help you. I am not current on market prices for these cars. However, I think it safe to say that the asking price is probably high, padded some. This is the nature of the business.
Generally for a used car the car is worth from what it can bring wholesale to well the sky's the limit.
Remember:
Anything a car salesman tells you is intended to get you to buy the car as soon as possible and pay as much for the car as possible.
Price is not fact, only an opinion.
There is always another car.
If you get a PPI from a good shop that knows Porsches, then you should be fine. There's no guarantee with a 12 year old car. Do you best homework and enjoy it. Make sure that it has decent brakes and tires. You'd hate to have to add another couple of thousand to cover those right after you buy it.
Don't get too emotionally involved. If the PPI tells you to walk away, then walk away. You'll find another one.
I bought a 2002 Targa 62k miles paid $27,500 last April. Didn't do a PPI because I've dealt with the sellers 3 times previously and I literally take them at their word. Mine still needs to have the IMS taken care of which I'll likely do this spring along with a clutch. Mines no mid life crisis I recently turned 60 but I've been driving sports cars for 44 years and this is my 4th Porsche. I recommend that after you buy it take what you read in these forums with a grain of salt because some of these guys will make you paranoid as hell. Yes these cars are expensive to fix but then again after you do your IMS these cars are extremely reliable. Good Luck.
If you don't have the Carfax, do you have someone who can run it for you? It's hit or miss whether it will provide anything useful, but it's still another worthwhile thing to check.
_If_ you are relatively handy in the garage, much of the routine maintenance is very easy. Brakes, for example, are easier on a Porsche than just about anything else I've ever worked on. Conversely, if you are not inclined to do some of your own preventive maintenance, you'll find that Porsche labor rates are high, so stuff that would cost you $200 at the Toyota shop may cost you significantly more at a Porsche dealership or independent mechanic.
You mentioned that you fell in love with the car, but subsequently you mentioned that you hope the PPI goes badly. The 996 is a great car, and if you really WANT a 911, it's an incredible value. However, if you're on the fence, there are other cars that are nearly as much fun to drive that are going to be more affordable to own - S2000, Miata, etc.
If you "hope" for a bad PPI, dont waste your money and get one to begin with. Go buy another lexus or nissan.
With 50K on the clock, there isn't too much to worry about besides what you listed. Tires, brakes, and all those consumable parts should be looked at but your fine apart from all that.
You already want to "get out" and not sure about the purchase. I would walk away. To get the 996 you have to want the car and be 100% sure you want it. Buying 996 is much easier than selling one.
996 is a bargain of the sports car world. It turns heads, it gets great mileage, it goes 170+ MPH. Maitenance is a factor, but most of the basic PM can be done with a floor jack and some stands. If SHTF you are screwed, but you know...you can have a heart attack tomorrow or trip getting out of the bed and die, so should you stay in bed all day tomorrow.
You say this car would not be a daily driver which implies that you have other reliable transportation taken care of.
To me this lessens the worry of disruption to daily life if the car is down for a few days to a few weeks due to maintenance or repair.
Low miles per year also equates somewhat to lower repair or component replacement costs, just don't forego oil changes routinely.
If you do dive into Porsche ownership, just do so with a realistic understanding that they are not a Toyota or Honda. In almost every way they don't perform the same as " standard" cars and that is why we love them!
On the flip side, don't dive into this car thinking it is going to be the fastest thing on the planet. 300 HP and a well-adjusted suspension makes a very capable car, but it's no tire-shredding monster. What precisely are you looking for when you say you're "looking for something different?"
Unless you're SOLD on owning a 911, I'd think seriously about a Boxster or Cayman. They're beautiful cars, the mid-engine setup means you can overcook things a bit without getting into serious trouble, and you can get a newer Boxster for 996 money, maybe even CPO so you don't have to worry about repairs.
$25k seems to me like a very good price for that car, assuming the PPI checks out OK. As others have stated, maintenance is rather expensive, but it's a fantastic car, and a perfect mid-life crisis fighter !!!!
Thanks everyone.
Yes I have two other "more reliable" car in 2013 Prius and 2011 Odyssey. Before them we had WRX and Legacy 2.5 GT.
The thought of getting 911 did not occur to me until I talked to my friend who has 2001 996 Cabriolet. He mentioned it has depreciated so much that thought it may be a good time to get into one. I think grabbed his 996 five years ago.
I started this car search with Miata, 370Z, and FR-Z, the usual suspects. While all of them drove nice in their own ways, none of them had "it" factor. Also, I feel I am bit too old driving them as a 40-year-old.
I also looked at 2001 Boxster with 40,000 miles for $13,000. I thought it was nice, but again felt missing the "it" factor.
I think I am attracted to 911 for its iconic status and the sound. This particular one has EVO V-Flow, it sounded awesome. Going fast beyond the speed limit is not exactly what I am after but who knows, it may put the bug in me again.
Will report you back what I find out from PPI tomorrow.
Does anyone know what are the black bumper thing on the front bumper? The owner swapped the bumper to the one on the photo. Don't know if it aftermarket or OEM.
I went from a 2005 Legacy 2.5GT to a 2002 Targa, Legacy felt like a little kids toy when I would get back into it after driving the Porsche for awhile. I say go for it.
To give you another price point, I paid $19k for my 2002 Targa with 77k miles on it last May. Still on original IMS. Had to do a bunch of minor repairs (window regulators, door latches, frunk latch, motor mounts DIY, brakes DIY, etc), made the mistake of adding everything up and I'm about $25k into the car now. Clutch was replaced at 50k, planning to do IMS whenever this one goes out.
It's my DD now and love it every day.
Looks like it might be a Turbo bumper, and I think the black thing on the bottom is called a front air splitter/spoiler. Not sure if it's stock or aftermarket, but I see aftermarket ones around here (LA) on Craigslist for fairly cheap.
I recently purchased 02 cab Tip,62K miles. as my mid life crisis machine. I am 70. I paid about what the one you are looking at is going for, but had new brakes, 2 new tires, new windshield,new water pump and serpentine. I know nothing about its IMS etc. and really don't care. A good fun car is like a good fun woman. They all have issues.
Car runs great and I drive it whenever I can find an excuse. I am always learning something new about it.
Just frigging go for it. We only go around once.
rbc
When the Turbo was first brought to the US, the DOT thought the bumper was too low and made Porsche add the bumperettes to meet regs. I think their was a misunderstanding regarding interpretation of the regulations and the problem was quickly resolved, but not until some cars had already been imported with the bumper additions.
Is there a reason the owner put on a different bumper? Prior accident?
Its a plug-in Prius!
My DD is Odyssey. Prius is more fun to drive than Ody, relatively speaking.... I doze off during my commute in Ody 90% of the time due to extreme boredom.
Regarding the bumper, thanks for the explanation. Owner said he didn't like the look of the original bumper thus the turbo bumper, if I take his words for it. It seems he likes to mod all his cars. He was showing me HIS Prius plug-in with lowered suspension and aftermarket wheels. His DD is Tesla S. I guess this is Silicon Valley, after all.
I had the same feeling regarding the PPI when I bought my first Porsche last year. Almost hoping the PPI would find something wrong so I could rationalize to myself why I shouldn't buy the car. PPI checked out and haven't regretted it since!
" A good fun car is like a good fun woman. They all have issues."
Oh I've been down that road. Reminds me of a quote in "Sports Car Graphic"
magazine back in 1970 about an Alfa Spider Veloce. The writer said something to the effect of that the car was like that crazy chic you once dated. "When things were good they were VERY good, and when things went wrong.... oh well you get the picture.
Knock on wood only major cost of repair in my porsches past 8 years were IMS and 2 window regulators.
Ims was preventive.
I also decided I will do the major repairs myself if necessary. Im putting in a lift in my garage soon.
Engine out service? Bring it on....I will do it. And by no means im a mechanic. Look at my other post..I cant even remove a shifter ****. Ok..I just don't want to break it is all.
Go buy the car. Have no fear.
Its only money and you only live once. Do something for yourself instead living a life to placate others.
Well said. I'd say the forums can complicate buying any car, especially a used Porsche 911. Have some fun and actually look forward to spending time in your Porsche after you buy it. Pull the trigger and create some excitement.
Hahahahahaha! PPI is done. The shop said the car is clean.
Recommended repairs are replacing fuel cap and raditor resistor, about $400 for both of them. Ashtray does not close and light of one of vanity mirrors does not work, but who cares.
Shop noted there are minor wetness at rear main seal, right cam shaft cover, and transmission cooler but not forming any drips. Did not say they need immediate attention though. I however will want IMS and RMS taken care of once I have the possession of the car for piece of mind though.
Thoughts?
Oh one more thing. The report said over rev 1-1487 range 1 and 0 on range 2. They are good numbers I suppose?
Range 1 ignitions aren't a big deal. Range 2 are downshift over-revs, which are much more likely to cause problems.
I had one of the cam covers resealed a year or so after I got my 996. It never did leak enough to leave a drop on my garage floor, but it did cause dirt to accumulate.
Get the non-smoker kit and delete the busted ashtray, and you'll have a place to stick your phone, or a roll of Life Savers, or a couple of crack vials.
Glad you didn't talk yourself out of the car - they really are great cars, especially given what they're selling for.
No one needs to argue. Fear doesnt drive everyone. Simply acting to prevent a potential future outlay of large sum of money by preemptively taking an action is prudent not necessarily fear driven.
Should I get IMS done then? 2002 with 50K miles. Probably I will.
I do not think fear necessarily is a bad thing. Some are driven by fear of failure....me that is.
Yes in your case you should.
50k miles on a 12 year old car means it was a toy/weekend car. Based on my research and readings on here the most vulnerable cars are the low mileage weekend/toy cars. There are many normal mileage 996s with original IMS bearings running just fine, and at the same time cars with 25-60k miles grenading. I do not understand the logic behind the trend, but it seems that running the engine a lot and fresh oil supply (and more frequent oil changes) in the daily driven cars has some effect on making the IMS last. Do not quote me on this, it is the most basic conclusion I could come up with.
Thanks everyone. I took ownership of the car on Friday. Drove it around on Saturday for a few hours, now I am in love. I did not what to make of the first 15 min, but once I got a hang of it, I enjoyed it.
I am going to get IMS and RMS taken care of in a few weeks. Is there any preventive or upgrade items I should consider doing while the engine is dropped?
It turned out the shop where I had PPI done did not check the filter for any metal flakes. Hindsight is 20/20, I should have done more research before PPI to specifically ask for that check. I guess I will find out when I take it in for IMS on its condition, but I feel like crap right now.
Car drives like a dream tho.
If you are concerned about whether there is anything in the filter, you can remove it and replace it without draining all of the oil in the car. You only lose the amount that is in the oil filter canister.
Its easy to do, and if you did not want to do it yourself you could have any auto repair place do it easy enough. You might have some peace of mind getting this done sooner than when you take it in for IMS work.
This certainly is a bad combination. Porsche and "worry" don't really go well together. Even worse if you frequent the forums.
Checking the oil filter IMO during a PPI can be flawed due to the fact the previous owner could change the oil and filter right beforehand, not allowing enough running time for any oil related debris to manifest itself again.
Don't worry so much and enjoy the drive.
Get report on brake pad wear . Budget for 60k service - much of that is very easy DIY but plugs can be pain - so I had indie do that. At this age you also want to consider water pump as preventative and aos if you have tranny out to do ims. Change trans and brake fluid if not done in last two years and she should be as good as new. Sign of window regulator going is slow drop of window when door handle is pulled. I had to change hood and frunk struts due to age - but that was cheap DIY . Pelican parts and this forum will be your friend ....
This was ruining my weekend so I decided to look at the filter. Went to Autozone, grabbed a few things. Took some effort to get the filter housing loose. I think filter itself looked okay. I did find any metal particles to speak of.
PO had last oil change done 2,000 miles / 1 year ago, so I figured I change oil too while I am at it. It is still draining.
Since Porsche dealer is closed today, I grabbed STP S8278 filter. Does anyone have experience with it? It had gasket ring included, but it does not fit the plug...crap. I did not find original gasket ring, maybe it is bottom of the oil pool.
I might just ditch STP S8278 and grab OEM filter next week.
Then it got me thinking, does engine oil need to be drained again when IMS is done? Cuz I have it scheduled like in a month.
Edit: did not see that you are doing the oil change.
Any generic copper ring for the drain plug will work, so don't sweat it. If you have to replace the plug without the ring, it won't hurt anything. Replace the filter cover, fill up the oil and go for a drive.
Stop worrying. For anti-worry, watch my comrade drive. Then consider how many lives you get and how meaningless it is to worry about IMS bearing or related crap. Gifted from god to drive the car, never wrecked. Gets killed as passenger last summer at 26 years old.
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Are those tinny silver dots in the photo metal flakes?? IMHO, you should pick another Porsche shop. Any good Porsche specialist know checking oil filter is a must. Even DIYers know that.
They are just fiber from the filter. I know, when I opened it up, I thought they were some sort of flakes too, but I did not find any hard object/particles.
