997 Owners' Opinions

I checked out the 997 forum for the first time in ages, and found a few comments like this... "Personally I think the 996 was an embarassment to Porsche. Nice flow from 993 to 997. It's as if the 996 is an ugly stepchild, especially the front lights and interior." There were only a 3 or 4 of these kinds of comments throughout a fairly large thread. But, it still makes me wonder - how do you drive these cars and decide that any one of them is "an embarassment to Porsche?" I've driven quite a few, and they're all amazing in their own way. Just my 2 cents. I'd have 1 of each, if garage space and money allowed.

Yeah, I commented in that thread. Completely different breed of guys over there.

Of course, I've read a lot of crap in our forums too. But, I don't think I've read anything in 996 about a 997, 993 944, etc. being an embarassment. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that kind of narrow-mindedness is annoying. Why post that kind of crap?

The 996 is not an embarrassment, in fact it had sales far exceeding the 993. Furthermore, the 997, although more attractive cosmetically, is an improvement, I wouldn't go to the extent of stating that its much better. I still have my 996 along with a 997S and thoroughly enjoy both of them.

Very rich considering the 997 is just an evolution of the 996. Under the skin they are pretty similar. But the die is cast on the 996 for whatever reasons. It doesn't have the same acceptance of other Porsche's, and it's too bad because it's a great car to drive. I like the headlights myself. The treatment is far worse from the 993 owners than the 997 crowd though. Some of the 993 guys are Porsche purist snobs; some of the 997 guys are just snobs.

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EWE - I think I need to go wash myself after thinking about those guys breeding over there

I'm glad I haven't ventured over to the 993 board. In contrast, I meet with about 15 guys on Saturdays - I'm sure you see the thread each week. Great guys. And the '80s 911 guys, the 996ers, 944, 928, Cayman, Boxsters, 997 and 993 guys all get along great - we admire each other's cars and talk all morning long. That's real life - no one in PCA or outside has ever walked up to me and said "your Porsche is an embarassment." Who lives in that world? That would be pathetic.

me too... I am not "all that" for the 997's and I am "that" for the 993's Beer anyone ?

It's funny, but a guy I work with is doing an assignment on the Porsche brand as part of his MBA coursework. He interviewed me first, then went on to interview a bunch of people that were "prime candidates for buying a new Porsche as dictated by income". (Not sure if I should be offended or not by that one). Anyways, he said that he got very different answers from me (being an enthusiast) to the people he talked to that just viewed it as an expensive performance car. I'm looking forward to seeing the survey data. I recommended that he come here to interview owners on each of the different forums, as that would give him access to a wide demographic and range of opinions.

Great idea. Although the internet and online survey generates a very different response than personal, face-to-face interviews. Still valuable - just different. Bob

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yeah, I know. I spoke with him for an hour and would happily have gone on longer. He got way more insight than he anticipated.

You could always try driving a Cayenne... It breeds a whole new level of disrespect from other Porsche owners...

LOL! So true. BTW - I took a hot lap at Rockingham in a Cayenne GTS with a Porsche driving school instructor - I'll never think of that automobile the same way.

When I went looking for my first Porsche two years ago I was looking to "purchase the newest Porsche I could afford". I wanted a 996 (2002) but at the time they were out of my price range so I ended up with 1995 993 which I would have a hard time parting with. I still like the the 996. I don't know why people keep comparing the 993, 996 and 997. They all have their quircks but they are all beautiful and satisfy our needs.

All I have to say is: Pics..... what's on your wrist today?

guess we all love what we have. I'll take a 997.2 with the direct injection motor with out the intermediate shaft... but the extra weight?? no, the 996 was beat up for putting on weight, why not the 997. another thread sometime ago I read, the writer said something along the lines of, had they allowed (the enthusiast?) the styling of the 996 evolve it would have been nice to see. bottom line was the change. I love them all fwiw, I'm sure a skilled driver in a pepper could wax my ***.... play nice folks, Geoff

996 is lighter than the 911 it replaced, so I'd be surprised about complaints of it's heft...

If it weren't for the 996 era where decisions enabled the company to streamline operations, there might not have been a 997, or, for that matter a Porsche operating in 2009. I love my 996, and have had many nice cars along the way. I'm sure the 997 is fabulous, but that doesn't take away from the 996 to me. If I find myself buying a 997 or newer model, its because of my enjoyment of the 996 preceding it.

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I really have no idea what you are referring to if it was a reference to my previous post. Can you explain? I felt my post was quite clear. I feel fortunate to own a Porsche, regardless of the vintage or model.

kinda inside joke... everyone knows, that 997 guys love wrist watch threads. Explains it all.

Sorry, I wasn't aware of the association. BTW I wear a Timex.

As a long time 911 owner and driver I find it interesting to see this rift between Porsche drivers. it's been going on for years,--I remember when I owned a 914 that the 911 guys wouldn't have anything to do with a 914! I remember when the 924 and 944 cars came out and MANY 911 drivers refused to even acknowledge them as they are water cooled. At one time I was introduced to someone who thought (mistakenly) that I owned a 924 (while I owned a specialized narrow-body 911 turbo) and she wouldn't even acknowledge me thinking the car wasn't oil-cooled. (She later was the NATIONAL membership chair for PCA!) I think the reason the 996 gets short schrift here is that it was the first water cooled 911. That's got to torque some people, but it's silly to me. A Porsche is a Porsche. Porsche made a very important engineering decision many years ago that to continue with air cooled cars was simply going down a hole. Noise pollution and emissions restrictions have essentially marked the end of the air cooled cars. As cocky as the 993 guys get about being air cooled someone needs to remind them that they are in fact "liquid cooled." Oil does the lion's share of the cooling in those engines. But, as a 997 owner, I'm HAPPY to have a water cooled Porsche in this day in age because getting my car through California's rigorous smog testing is very simple for our cars,--the came cannot be said for the pre-99 cars! The other final but CRITICAL issue that concerns us all is manufacturing. Porsche has been able to turn the company around by making manufacturing affordable for themselves with the 996, the Boxsters, and the Cayennes. Many bitch and moan about the Cayenne not being a true Porsche. (These are people who have never driven that vehicle). BUT, without the success of the (1) Boxster, (2) Cayenne, and (3) 996 the company could well have wound up as some boutique sub-element of Daimler Benz. I like all Porsches!

In the limited amounts of interactions I've had with other model 911 owners, it's been mixed. I noticed that car enthusiasts will except the car for what it is. A fantastic performance car. Then there are the status owners who like it because their 911 (take your pick, air cooled, looks like real 911, 996 is an abomination etc...) is a true Porsche. My attitude is to ignore those guys. If that's what floats their boat, I'm not going to bother trying to convince them otherwise of the merits of the 996. It's that kind of attitude that lends some truth to the stigma of a Porsche owner. Because of that, I don't tell people I have a 911, I refer to my car as "my car" in conversation. When people ask me what I drive, I tell them my Grand Cherokee. I love my car because of not only it's aesthetics but, it's unique combination of handling, challenging nature to drive and feedback all while being comfortable. If someone doesn't like it, then so be it. Move on and find someone else to talk to. For what it's worth, the Porsche owners stigma is why I haven't joined PCA yet. I've met a balance of both with my interactions with the local chapter, some people are really nice and some aren't.

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Me too. In fact I actively try to avoid telling people I have a Porsche. People know though, because people talk and it comes up occasionally. Among some there is a negative perception of Porsche owners right or wrong. When it does come up I tell people I bought it because it's a hot rod, not because of the emblem on the hood.

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I have a large poster of 997 on my "cube" wall and a guy put a small sticky note pointing to the head of the driver that reads "*****" (as a joke, I know who did it) but I left it and remind people "I am that *****" which of course is completely NOT true. poeple at work call me one of two things... "Mr. wizard" and "the GO TO guy" I have plenty of people that know I am not a *****, but quite the opposite. So it that helps people remember...stereotypes are stupid... (go ahead and let me have it on that one ended statement)

I had both, and I could tell you that I love my 996 a lot specially on the track. handled better(more tossable) turning and gassing it the same time.

Personally, I don't care what ANYONE thinks of my car except me.. sure I enjoy showing it off on the forum and to other like minded people that just like cars as I do. I would not be surprised if half the 997 owners had 996's and loved them. Had me a 986S, heard all kinds of crap about that car.. whatever! I enjoyed it 150%! Owned many 944's... heard all kinds of crap... back when 911 owners would not even look at 944 owners. whatever! I loved those cars and miss my 951 to this day I want to replace it. I never met a Porsche I didn't like and I seldom will make a derogatory comment about someones else's car unless they asked for my opinion .. or well.. sometimes a mod is so bad I have to pick on it ..im weak. My point is, I don't apologize to anyone for what I drive, it's just a damn car and if you judge me on that it's your problem and if you think my 996 sucks well thats not my problem! There are the "car guys" (and gals) and than there are those who just don't get it. OK, Clearly I have not had my coffee yet.. sorry.. off the pulpet ..whew Can we get back to talking about watches?

I think that what you read on the boards doesn't always represent what you see out in the world. I frequently attend PCA events for my region, especially the breakfast gatherings on Saturday mornings. At those events, we often see a mix of 911s, Cayennes, Boxsters, Caymans and even a 944 or two. Everyone is welcome, and nobody complains about any of this nonsense. Now... as for watches... can a 996 guy like watches too? I happen to really like them...

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+1 the thought of..." I didn't buy it for you, I bought it for me " and "I didnt buy it to polish, I bought it to drive " both go thru my head a lot. along with anything shiny or did you say GT2..... whoops A.D.D flare up

I love the new 9A1 engine and interior as long as it a full leather interior. I think the first 997 generation was a total failure. The rear ends large hump and no technology changes from the 996 with respects to AWD. The 997S should have been the 997 and the 997S should have been the 997S with the X51 package. The wider butt on the 997 is nice but the increased height doesn't help the look at all. Might as well not even made it wider. The 2nd generation is very lazy. They should have dropped the height of the rear end's hump back (engine compartment) since the new engine is smaller but they kept the same shell and now you could use the rear engine trunk for storage. The rear tail lights are hideous and the front leds look like star wars light sabers. I'd say over a first generation 997S I would take a the 40th anniversary 996 any day. 10 hp down but it's still faster and lighter. A full leather interior in a 996 is still sharp looking. Move the climate control to the lower level and replace the CD holder with a shelf then put a Nav system in and your have an interior that looks up to date.

Ouch! Why don't you just say how really feel See we can talk their cars down too.. But we just above all that - actually with Phil and me to make fun of, who needs more - LOL Signed - crazy cat lady

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+1... when people ask me what I drive, I tell them I drive an F-150 truck... less questions... not that I've had it that long, but when I first got it, I used to say "a Porsche Carrera"... but that led to way too many questions ("how do you fit in that thing?" being the most popular one, although the most interesting one was, "oh, so what do you do deal crack?" Where did that one come from?) and I always end up with the disclaimer, "but it's an old one..." Seems that people (co-workers) are okay with my driving that car as long as they know it's old and used... People are funny and I see that as long as you fit their narrow definition of "how it should be" you don't get as much grief... (not that I mind the grief sometimes...) Rudy

+1 on saying it's an "old Porsche". I always kick myself for not simply saying, "it's a f---in' Porsche and I love it." But, I'm sure that would confirm that I have "issues". Bob

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hahahahah! One 997 owner, posted a pic of his watch next to the Porsche badge on the hood.... IIRC ,and he got a lot of **** for it. I guess if thats all you got on a 997 owner... that aint to bad.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe they were dicks when the had 996s.Hard to change when you get that old.

I have drooled over every version of the Porsche 911 for the past 30 years, including the 996. I finally broke down and bought my first Porsche, a 997, last year. But I still like them all. BTW, I don't wear a watch. I have a cellphone. Watches are just jewelry.

I'm not going to rag on the 997 or 993. I like them both. I like the interior design of the 996 better than the 997 but not the materials used. The lines are more consistent with the exterior. The problem with the 996 is the pain it is to upgrade the interior. I like the back side of the 997 better. The 993 looks timeless and I wouldn't mind owning one but they aren't easy cars to own. They're getting old and quirky when it comes to reliability and are slower.

^^I agree^^ and I also think that the Boxter, Cayenne, Cayman (but shall wait before commenting on the Panamera) were company saving models. I didn't care for the headlights when the 996 first came out but (maybe because I now have one?) I like 'em. In fact, I remember hearing about some design award Porsche earned for them...... My first was an '82 SC and that 'classic' styling is still dear to me but you know, when I see my car, especially in profile, the aerodynamic improvements are droolicious! 997? Yep, maybe someday but until that day I sure enjoy my 996!

Not a 996 or 997 owner (968 instead) so I'll offer some left-field perspective. The early "stream rock" styling of the 99-01 996 is one of the cleanest, sleekest designs I can think of. Pure elegance. No, I don't give a crap that it has Boxster headlights either. I never understood that whole thing. As for the 997, it looks a little bloated and out of proportion to me. Respect, yes. Fan? No.

I read the same thread yesterday on the 997 forum, and was a bit surprised to find a thread devoted to bashing another model, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I bought my 996 used, and will probably buy a 997 used when I want/can afford the next one. I hope the folks on the 997 forum continue to buy lots of new 997s to take that initial depreciation hit. I'd like something in a dark metallic blue with black interior, nav, PASM.....

What is ironic is that about 18 months ago, there was a thread on the 997 forum about the 996 taking a big depreciation hit because of the 997. Many of them were positive that the 997 would never suffer such a fate!

If I had waited 6 months, I would have been able to buy a red on black 05 997 with 18k miles for the same price as my 996 from the same dealer....and it was on the lot when I bought mine.

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awe, some of that drool messed up your avatar j/k man thanks for your perspective! I am like you, love em all (differantly)

+1. There's little doubt in my mind - and when I do, I'm sure I'll look back on my 996 with tremendous nostalgia. It's the best Porsche I've ever owned. I also thought the world of the 951 and Boxster S I had.

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.... oh good grief! After all, round headlights are such an integral and frequently used approach in modern automotive design The interior of the new model (997) should have a nicer feel to it as part of the usual evolution of any vehicle. Although even the 997 interior falls short of some competitors. But then you don't buy a Porsche for its interior or its headlights rather for its performance and in that regard, perhaps surprisingly, the 997.1 did not deliver sufficiently compelling numbers to upgrade. Now, the 997.2 appears to have stepped up the performance/technology metrics substantially ... but then again, I just don't like those tail lights

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That's exactly how I feel. Sure the 997.2 is better, heres to hoping that Porsches statement that the next gen 911 will have a 10% wieght reduction. I hope from a design and look point of view they slim down bloated look on the backside by reducing the hieght of the engine compartment and fix those tail lights or at least go back to the 997.1 tail light shape with leds.

I kink of think this is in the range of "as good as they get"

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+1.... I believe Porsche went back to their roots with the 996 design... reflecting on the early 70's 911... narrow body, very sleek, maximum aero dynamics.

Well, after I followed the discussion and owning a 993 convertible and a 996 turbo, I want to add my thoughts: * The 993 is an animal, especially the turbo. For my personal taste, the engine (especially the sound) and the dashboard are all time classics, the car looks just gorgeous. The build quality is fantastic. You feel the road. It's driving. * The 996 is - compared to the 993 - a much more modern car. If you drive 500 miles you will notice the difference. No need to visit an orthopedic clinic. The 996 is a car which gives you a safer feeling when you are driving 160+ (or 250 km/h +). I can just talk about the turbo, for my opinion it's a great car. * The 997 is the next generation - great cars, they are 996 SP1 with round headlights and - according to my local Porsche dealer - with the same oily problems (except turbos). And the turbo is still using the 5 gears automatic transmission. I would wait for the new gearbox - DSG - especially if I would by a 997 turbo. If you go for the interior - materials, styling etc. - get a Italian car (Maserati, Ferrari etc.) If you go for build quality - get a Mercedes S500 from the W140 series If you go for an unbeatable price/performance ratio get a 996 turbo

personally, I like my headlights.....like a lot better than the old style also, my good freind has a C4 993 - he loves my car and admits it would blow his doors off

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The Boxster and 996 bailed porsche out of near financial ruin.

I've tended to stay out of these inter-breed discussions because they always seem to degrade, but it good to see reasonable responses to an ignorant opinion on the other board. It's interesting about the comment on water cooling and headlights. The comments are spot on. I must admit these were two issues I had with the 996 when it first came out; but not because of what you might think. It wasn't that I didn't ike the headlight look, it was that I had always been able to tell a 911 was coming up on me at night two ways without ever seeing the actual car; one the sound of the engine and two, the look of the headlights in the rear mirror. I thought that the 911 should remain uniquely identifyable and I had a problem not being able to tell the difference between it and a boxster until it passed me. I'm not saying that opinion was correct, it was just my opinion, nothing more. On the issue of water cooling, I admit I was flat wrong. Granted, I still like the air cooled engine sound but I learned (as mentioned earlier) the real engineering reason for the change was to meet emissions and to allow power levels to continue to rise in a platform where air cooled heads alone would not suffice. Once I understood the reason, I had no problem with the issue of water cooling, and still don't. Personally, I think the negativity has gone on much longer than I ever thought it would. I thought it would end up in good natured ribbing with mutual respect the way the SC and Carrera guys do, but after 10 years it's still going strong. Really too bad; it's not worth the energy spent. I'll just say I respect the marquee and leave it at that. Now I'll go back to my garage and fix some oil leaks on my SC (kidding).

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I quite agree!

+1. The responses on this thread have been very level-headed. I wonder if the new 4-door, front-engine Porsche will now be the lightning rod for ridicule from other forums. Personally, I can't wait to see/drive a Panamera in person.

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Posted a pic of his watch next to his car? What a deuche! Anyway, F*** those 997 guys. Bunch of watch wearing pansies.

If you guys feel miffed about the slights from the 997, imagine what a Boxster owner goes through when miffed by a Carrera owner. Glass houses and all that stuff.....

A friend of mine drives a Boxster and I'd never make fun of him or it. He's a pretty good stylist and I'd hate for my wife to have to find another salon. Kidding, kidding... A lot of guys at the local PCA have Boxsters and there' really a lot of fun!

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hahahahha... Dude, IIRC... that watch thread you posted... If you go through it, Im not in there. Wouldnt do that to one our own (but maybe I did, now Im not so sure). FYI, here is my DD... Marathon SAR, Gov issue for the Search & Rescue Operations (Canadian and US).

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Wearing the same watch today instead of a Breitling.

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The guy who posted a picture of his watch next to his car has disappeared from the 997 forum. The rest of the 997 forum visitors just didn't put up with that Pelosi.

I have to say that I love my 997S, but I spend as much time on the 996 board as do the 997 forum. The reason is that I learn a lot about my car by hearing the critique of the 996, positive or negative, being that it was the precursor to mine. In this fashion I get a better opportunity to comprehend the geneology of my 911, and understand it's dynamics, based upon the development of the 996. Hey they're all 911's. And without the 996 there never would have been a 997. Jay

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That sounds like smart thinking to me - feel free to voice ideas too - we are open minded, well the ones that have minds.... Anyone seen mine, I seem ta have misplaced it again

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I think it got snagged on that sharp, shiny object that keeps distracting you!

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Jay, For a very similar reason, I spend a decent amount of time on the 997 Forum so I can keep up with the latest advancements Porsche is putting into the 911. That way I'll be more knowledgeable if I have the opportunity to get into a 997.1 or 997.2 in the future. However, I consider the 996 Forum "home" mostly because they haven't kicked me out of here yet, even though I no longer have a 996.

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Red, At least someone got that one! Anyway, sweet Marathon. I really like that one. The SAR is one of my favorites. Just not sure if I could pull it off b/c of the size.

I have to admit, the 997S is a more nimble and powerful than my 996 but I am in the process of changing that. The first was getting the x51 with BB exhaust preceded by the custom sound system and know ordering the x74 with a Sport shift kit and racing pedals. I spend equal time in both vehicles with neither one of them being daily drivers. However, the 997 does get more track time but I will fill you fellas in once I get the new suspension installed along with the shifter and pedals.

There are ALWAYS going to be newer and "better" Porsches (and cars in general). I don't care! I love my 996 - it is faster than I will ever need, looks awesome (Boxster front end and all), and is the nicest car I've owned. I'm really glad 997 owners love their cars, good for them! When I get in my car, and close the door, and smell that leather smell, and fire up the 3.4, I don't look for someone's approval. It's for my enjoyment, period. When someone asks what car I drive, I say a 911. If anyone is lame enough to challenge me as to how I can own such a fine car, I aks them what kind of car they drive. Usually shuts them up pretty quickly! Now I need coffee! First day of spring my @ss (we got snow this morning)!