New spark plugs - why didn't I have this done sooner??

I had my mechanic install the new plugs I was going to do myself but decided I might need my back. So, I picked it up tonight. AMAZINGLY better comes to mind. The engine is quieter, smoother, more responsive, sounds healthier, the car is easier to shift smoothly. Someone said it best - transformationally better! My old plugs only had 20k miles on them, so most would say "why change them"? If you have original plugs, CHANGE THEM (or pay someone to do it)! You will NOT be sorry!

Good post...so you really noticed an improvement? I need to do my plugs next.

Did you notice the condition of the plug- gap size, wear of tip? Same plugs? When I have done plugs on other vehicles, I usually did the air filter at the same time. When the vehicle improved, I was never sure which affected the performance: plugs or clean filter.

I didn't see the old plugs, but I notice subtle differences - and this was a MAJOR improvement!

I'm going to do my sparks after IMS retrofit. I hear it's a 6 to 8 hour job...

While your mufflers are off - swap in a set of FisterD's

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BS....

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I hope you're right. Because I really don't want to spend that much time changing sparks... How long you think?

Make sure you remove the mufflers (do a search for procedure, easy) and you can do the job in under an hour. Also prevents you from damaging the coil packs, which can be costly!

first time muffler removal is about an hour and a half tops.... after that you can do it in 15 minutes off and 15 back on....

My mechanic billed me for 2 hours. I was going to do it myself, but figured that it only has to be done once, and I didn't have the desire to get the car up on jacks and fiddle with the mufflers for an entire weekend morning or afternoon. If you have the time, go for it. You'll like the results!

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+++1

what are fister d's?

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One of the guys on here does an exaust bypass trick. Link bellow. http://www.fdmotorsports.net/

Nice tip...it's on the spring maintenance list.

Have any Ca car owners done the fister D's exhaust mod ? I like the sound of it , and this post has prompted me to change the plugs and mod the mufflers while i have them off. I need to call them and see if its legal to do in CA with the smog requirements .

Failure of spark plugs on a stock engine in less than 50,000 miles is extremely rare and simply because someone changing them earlier and "possibly" getting better peformance afterwards, is no reason to simply start changing them sooner when there is no indication of a problem. Even the cheapest plugs will last 50,000+ miles, thanks to the unleaded fuel we use along with better fuel management.

Answered my own question about the fister d exhaust mod. Called Darin at FD motorsports and he was super cool and informative. Found out its smog legal as the mod is done after the cat, smog sensors, etc. I will be pulling my mufflers off in Feb and shipping them north to get the bypass done and the ceramic coating in velvet black. This is going to get addicting, as many of you have advised me. I'll post up some pics when its done and report my findings. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

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I am not disagreeing. But is there any effect of absolute age? In making the mileage specifications did that include assumptions about miles driven per year? I have two cars, a 2002 & a 2003; both running on the original plugs and have pondered about just changing them due to age.

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Age has less effect on plugs than does mileage. Materials used are non corrosive and moisture has little effect on them. Any oxidation on the plugs will be eliminated within seconds after starting the engine. Keep marketing hype seperate from reality. Additionally, a single ground electrode plug will perform exactly as well as a plug with mulitple ground electrodes. Obviously, it is in the best interest of the manufacturer to suggest that plugs be replaced more frequently than necessary and to be replaced with the newest, superduty, high tech and more costly plug. A $15 plug will provide no more performance than will a $2.50 one. Getting 100,000 miles out of a stock spark plug is very common.

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Yes, I often notice that any one of my cars run smoother, quieter, and accelerate quicker after washing and polishing them. I've always attributed that to the reduction of airflow drag due to the waxing. I just put new spark plugs in my grandson's '92 LS400 (150,000 miles), I'll have to check with him to see what his experience was as a result.

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Well said, stated. The only thing I might add is the fact that todays coil-on-plug technique along with the newer solid state ignition systems provide a more reliable high voltage for initiating the spark. The factory spark plugs that I just removed from a '92 LS400 with 150,000 miles looked, with re-gapping, as if they might be good for another 150,000 miles. I put new platinum tipped plugs in anyway.

Is it the consensus here that after 10 years of firing, plugs should work as good as new, as long as they don't exceed the recommended miles? All I know is my car runs better with the new plugs. Unless removing and installing the coil wires caused a better connection / spark, why else would my car run better after a plug change?

I had the same positive experience changing my plugs a while back, even though they weren't due for it. I also had the same experience with board members vigorously explaining to me that I was an overimaginative idiot and that there was no way in God's creation this could make a difference. I remained, however, happy with my decision.

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This is not, in fact, true. It may be in the interest of dealerships, but not manufacturers. German car companies pay environmental levies on every car's estimated lifetime consumables, notably including oil. Thus, they are incented to stretch certain maintenance intervals as long as they reasonably can.

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Actually, it is very true since I was speaking of the spark plug manufacturers. As far as I know no one mentioned the auto manufacturers.

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Then perhaps you should have said "sparkplug manufacturers." Charming as ever, I see. EDIT: You've edited your post three times now, presumably to come off a little less cranky. I appreciate that.

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Maybe you should have just accepted it exactly as stated and not assumed something that was not said. And, yes I did edit what I said in an attempt to find a nice way of saying your assumption was moronic.

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If that is your definition of moronic, then you must move in some very rarified circles. I can see now why the anger management thing didn't work out for you, what with all the MENSA meetings.

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Thank you for confirming that I responded to you properly and accurately. Now, take your pills and go back to sleep.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

What is the torque spec for the spark plugs on a 996? If you're going to change the plugs yourself make sure you have a torque wrench for when you install the new plugs. I'm waiting on my FisterD's here and plan to do new plugs when I install the modified cans in about two-weeks.

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No need to measure torque. Tighten plugs with ratchet until bottomed and snug and then tighten another 1/2 - 2/3 turns.

Installing a new driver improves a lot of prosches performance. Especially the low miles one. Replacing old worn out spark plugs improves performance? Somebody ought to tell Porsche about this. Sounds as bad as the IMS thing. Next somebody is going to tell me spark plug wires go bad over the years from heat and interior deteriation AGHHHH!!!!!! Just being a jerk of course.

What oil should I use?

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I have been experimenting with some of the new negative viscosity oils. Also have had good luck with 40w-0. I find that the thickness protects the engine when it's cold, but then it gets thin when it's hot so the engine can rev easier. Especially in reverse.

Hotter climates like hawaii go 15w50. Colder times the 40 should work right. Synthetic is best.

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This doesn't answer the question....which was reasonable. It is simplistic to assume that all corrosion or effects of age are not removed with a few minutes of use -- which has been obvious over the years of working on engines. Sorry....you've argued yourself past the point of being a credible source.

Torque should be about 18 ft lbs IIRC - most dont torque, the important part IMO is uniform tightness and tight enough not to come loose and not so tight as to cause them to damage the threads or be a problem to remove. aka torqued

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Dude c'mon. After having read all the facts it must be obvious even to you that he's rubber and you're glue and everything you say bounces off him and sticks to you.

You know when apes get aggresive and want to show dominance they **** everywhere leaving their scent. I hope some of you guys aren't typing on a laptop resting on your lap, it could cause a problem.

I am intrigued. What is this "torque" you speak of? Back to the pissing match.

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I think he was joking! WTH just happened to this thread?

I thought if you lived in Hawaii you can use coconut oil.

Indeed, I was joking. A touch too subtle, perhaps...

Thanks Bruce - dammit, I was all over the interwebs looking for -10W-40 oils to get the very minimum performance oil I could find

I learned a looong time ago to always use the Manufacturers torque spec after working on way to many cars that others had stripped out. Another thing that will and can happen if they are not tight enough is they will back out slightly and you will hear what sounds like a bad lifter or quiet rod knock and you will think your life is over. As hard as it is to get to these plugs they should always be tightened to spec.

My wife got me a torque wrench for christmas. I torque everything I can. She asks me to hang up a painting--I'm torquing those damn framing nails. To what and how I don't know but they're getting torqued.

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i had delayed my 60k service for about 1k miles and one day i started my car and i had misfires all over the place. at first i thought it was cracked coil packs, but after limping my car to the indie, he determined the coil packs were fine, but the plugs were old and the points showed wear. he replaced all six and car ran, and still runs, great. he explained that the porsche is pretty good with the wear intervals on the wear items (such as spark plugs, etc.) and he was not surprised that i had some issues a mere 1k miles after my recommended service interval. by the by, the plugs were clean and didn't seem dirty or sooty, but the points were worn.

"..but the points were worn.." About which that nice and solid 40,000 volt spark pulse doesn't give a damn...... "..misfires all over the place..." And they'll be back....

Points, okydoky..

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You will/should love the Fister D mod, because the sound is such an improvement over stock. I did this mod just last month, and I would rank it one of the best improvements you can do on a 911. Darin is informative, and easy to deal with. Good choice IMO.

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Can someone point me to the DIY to remove the cans? I did a search and it appears that the instructions are embedded in a DIY to do something else. After reading a dozen of so search items I decided to punt and ask the question... Thanks! Rudy

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Go to page 4 of postings, first one listed, go to post #14...great diagram of exhaust.

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well, no problems to report 8k miles later, so at least in my personal experience, the diagnosis and fix seemed to be right on. i use my car as a DD and drive it during the winter, so wet, slush, etc. seem to have no adverse affects on my car thus far. i find it interesting that people seem to stick to their theories even in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary. so unless i run into evidence to change my theory, i would assume that worn points make a difference to spark plug performance.

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Rudy, check out this link. Muffler DIY

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Shark oil is prefered. You don't have to change it as often as the coconut oil

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I respectfully disagree with you. From my experience with my own car ('02 996 with 170k+ miles), I think MOST people would notice a diffference in performance changing them on these cars more frequently than every 50k miles. A lot of other cars can go much longer. But it depends on the car/engine/ignition system/etc. Your post also doesn't take into account engine run time which is more important than car miles. These cars break down coil packs pretty frequently too. b-man

If you want a performance engine to stay performance at its best then check and change as frequintly as possible. There is nothing wrong with pulling plugs to keep an eye on the type of burn the engine is getting. I wont take about the ease of pulling plugs on the 996.....hehehe

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Tim/Barn996, Sorry about the late thanks (business travel has a way of interrupting forum addiction), but perfect! Much appreciated! Rudy

You are welcome, Rudy!

I second that. Have you pulled the trigger yet?

I will be changing mine out soon. Thanks for the post. B-Man- Are you on your original motor with your '02 with 170k? Any RMS/IMS problems? Thanks!

Maybe unleaded is less abusive on plugs but its a good idea to change them. Thanks for reminding me I never gave the car a full tune up after getting it. Tuning up modern cars is a head scratcher for me. Tune the carbs? Uh add fuel injection cleaner and flash the ECU? Tune the ignition? Errr change plugs and coils? I've got a question. How many guys remember adjusting the dwell on distributors?

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I do. I had a '69 Camaro conv with a points distributor. I remember lifting the window to adjust dwell. What was it, 30 degrees? Don't remember, don't care to and will never adjust another in my lifetime. I did it a couple of times and said screw this, I am going to go HEI. Beat the firewall back for clearance and dropped one in. Never looked back.

Yah most weekend on friday afternoon was tune up time. Oops forgot to tighten down after dwell. Oops didn't secure the condensor wire tight enough. Oops get the right rpm for timing, Darn get the vacume and mixture right. Put a little extra advancement in for the weekend. On modern cars I just wish trouble shooting was easy without using a code reader.

Oops, forgot to lube the distributor cam.....

Whats a carburator....?

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If I had a nickel for every time I cleaned the idle jets out on these b@stards...

It got to the point I made my kids do the job...

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Me too. Got to where I'd use just enough of the red capsules lube since I would clean the points on fridays. Heck yah good job. I was reading that the factory carbs that weren't webers area actually better for adjustability and tuning features. Another victom of the young I see. I guess I really don't miss the old days as much now that I think of it.

make sure that they really replaced the right, aft most plug. Ive heard few stories that since its the hardest one to access few owners found that they have 5 new plugs and one old one

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I'm on my second engine. The first one let go at about 142k miles. I never had a problem with a RMS/IMS. From what I have seen and noticed, it seems like the daily drivers don't has as may RMS/IMS problems as the weekend or garage queen cars. But, I could be wrong about that. FYI, I had one of the earliest 996 models. I received mine in early October 2001. My car (with the original engine) burned a lot of oil, about 1 quart every 1600 miles (if I rememeber correctly). It burned at this rate since day one, regardless of how hard I drove it, and regardless of how many miles on the engine. My new engine doesn't burn any oil. It goes through less than 1/2 quart every 10k miles. Same car, same driver, same driving style, etc. It's funny when people say going through a lot is normal or how you drive it or . . . Sorry to go off topic. But I thought you would appreciate the info. b-man

great pics Jasper also - the new sig and avatar are

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My DAD can tell you all about them though.. Come to think about it....the only carborators Ive had to work on were on my dads blasted second hand push mowers(I had the last lawnboy tweeked, 93octane, no airfliter and carb wide open, it would throw the clippings 20+ft)..... 3/4 of an acre with a push mower then he'd make me do the the two old ladies lawns across the street....but it builds character...last time I checked Im quite one. So my wife says....

I use to change the plugs and points in my old Datsun Z car. That car was great to work on. You could pull the distributor and adjust it on the bench. Plugs, it was so open on that side of the motor you could almost sit in a lawn chair and use an extension to pull the plugs. That car use to eat points, it seemed like I was putting new ones in once a month or so. I think they cost at least $2 and the plugs were about $2 each too. BTW, in that old car I really could tell the difference when they were changed. With new plugs and points it would start on the first hit of the starter.

There is no need to remove the mufflers on your 996. However, I do suggest you remove the "header exhaust" and remove them from the cats. This will make the process somewhat easier. Be careful when removing the exhaust bolts as they may break off in the heads! Coat the bolts with Phillips Milk of Magnesia (original flavor) and reinstall them. MoM is a great anti seize! I also replace my plugs using the new Pulstar Be1i (2002, 996) and have noticed a 2 mpg increase in mileage and better bottom end torque, but I can't prove it.